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Rear axle gears |
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71hornet6
AMC Nut Joined: Nov/18/2012 Location: Oakland, CA Status: Offline Points: 433 |
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Posted: Apr/23/2016 at 11:07pm |
Hi I made a 5 speed trans for my Hornet that has a 3.25 first gear and .75 or .63 overdrive (I have .63 in there but have an adaptor coming to put on the .75 5th gear)
I got an AMC 20 rear from a 70 AMX and it's 3.54 gears I was taking it for a test drive today and I think I could benefit from 3.31 or 3.08 rear The tires are 26.5" wide on the ground but the effective diameter is 25" I would guess since it looks about 12.5" from center of the wheel to the ground. In 4th gear, at 65MPH, with 3.08 rear gears, I have 2691RPM Is that about right? Also I've heard overall first gear ratio for the street is good around 10:1 - 3.08x3.25 is 10.01 I want to make sure I have this right because it's a pain to change the gears in that 2 pc axle AMC 20 |
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'71 FrankenHornet:
'72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
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WesternRed
AMC Addicted Joined: Aug/03/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5799 |
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Depends on what you are trying to achieve, most people who install overdrive transmissions will run a numerically higher rear axle to give them quicker acceleration, the opposite is true if you are chasing fuel economy or highway cruising comfort. 3.25 first gear is pretty low, maybe try taking off in second gear and it that is how you like to roll, you might consider changing the diff gears, 3.31 probably won't make a massive difference, so maybe 3.08 is a good choice.
3.54 is usually a good middle ground between acceleration and cruising comfort with a non-overdrive transmission. |
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DaemonForce
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2012 Location: Olympia, WA Status: Offline Points: 1070 |
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Oh this is tricky. My stock Eagle 3spd is being replaced with a 5 speed with the 4.03 1st gear and 0.76 OD combination. My STOCK gearsets are 2.72 and I believe I may benefit from 3.08 gears. I have no way to test this until everything is reassembled, which might be a very long time the rate this has been going. I might be interested in a lift kit later on and possibly bigger tires but mine are 28's and yours are less? I have 16" rims, are yours 15s? You should be able to bolt up bigger wheels and be done with it, no gear swapping involved. Is this wrong?
Also, my overall ratio looks like 2.72*4.03(1/2.6) which comes out to 10.96 high and 28.50 low. The OD makes an already high 2.72 fly up to 2.06. The lowest offered ratio in these diffs was 2.35 and it was NOT with an overdrive transmission of any kind, pretty sure it was either a Borg Warner or Chrysler automatic. Anyway, this is all after junking the factory anemic 258 for a EFI 285 and possibly M62. What's going in front of your gear masher? |
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Ken_Parkman
AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/04/2009 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 1814 |
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Usually the calculated diameter of the tire is about right for calculating highway rpm. dropping to 25" if the tire is 26.5" is too much of a drop. I get for a 3.08 and 26.5 at 65 mph get 2540 rpm.
Regardless it will be between the 2, not a huge difference. The required gear ratio depends a lot on the combo. A mild 6 will probably like the high total low gear ratio, but it would be a lot for a 360 lets say. I put a A500 OD behind a stock 360 with a 3.15 and it was almost too much gear at less than 2000 rpm at highway speeds. Carbed is not quite as flexible at ultra low rpm as the modern EFI stuff. cruise rpms in the 2000-2300 range seem nice. I'd suggest stick with the 3.54 at first and see how you like it. Yes the 11.5 total low will be a lot, but the 6 (?) might be fine with that. Then if you don't like it change to a 3.15 rear, common for the AMC 20.
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71hornet6
AMC Nut Joined: Nov/18/2012 Location: Oakland, CA Status: Offline Points: 433 |
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Thanks you guys
I started with putting the AX-15 in the Hornet because it's tougher than the T5 and I wanted to be different The 3.83 first with 3.54 rear was way too low I figured out how to put the Toyota Supra gears into the AX-15 for better ratios including the 3.25 first gear so that is working better The wheels are tall Radial TAs on 14x7 steel ralley wheels to fill up the flared fenders nicely The engine is a hot 258. Ideally I want to take it on road trips. Good freeway cruise speed would be nice as well as being able to use first gear. I'll drive it around a little more and keep tuning the carb to get a feel for how to make it feel better. The carb isn't completely dialed so it's feeling sluggish The T5z has the 3:1 1st and .63 overdrive so it's pretty close to that right now but I have an adaptor coming to put in the .75 overdrive of the R154 if that seems necessary but it's pretty far from going on the freeway as the suspension needs a full rebuild If I do a 3.08 to get the best first gear ratio, which 5th gear would I want - the .63 or the .75? This is going to take some tweaking. It's my first build and I am pretty sure I made it way too complicated with the whole hybrid transmission thing... |
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'71 FrankenHornet:
'72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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I used a 3.08 behind my AW4 auto OD trans. OD ratio is 0.70 (I have an early AW4). With the converter locked up it's about the same as running a manual with OD. The 4.6L stroker I was running at the time pulled the 3.08 gear just fine with no lugging, but I had to be going about 70 to effectively use OD. The engine would pull it down to 55 just fine, but gas mileage suffered because the engine wasn't turning enough. You need to run at least 2000 rpm at cruising speed. I dropped to a 3.55 gear set and picked up 2 mpg on average! I'd have preferred 3.31 gears, but ran across the 3.55 gears at a good price. Jeep XJs with the same combo used 3.55 gears factory, so figured it was good (and it has been).
BTW, the Jeep XJs and MJs with AX15 or BA-10/5 used 3.08 gear from the factory. I had an MJ with the AX15 and 3.08 gears. I always felt like it could have used a little more gear, a 3.23 or 3.31, would have been a lot better with the combo. Lots of down-shifting on hills with the 3.08, especially with any load in the back at all. |
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Frank Swygert
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FuzzFace2
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2007 Location: Angier, N.C. Status: Offline Points: 10356 |
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Don't forget the weight of the car as this will also play into trany & rear gear ratios.
When I did the WC T5 in my factory T10 Javelin I knew the T10 first gear was a little to high for my liking, slip clutch too much with the stock 3.54 rear gear. The WC T5 I used has a 2.95 first and just moving the car in & out of the garage with no clutch slipping. Lighter cars can get away with a higher first gear to get it moving and same with OD to keep in moving. Think same with larger motors over smaller ones. What was nice for me was knowing how my car was with the 3.54 rear gears and T10 and then knowing what the T5 had on how it would work out. Dave ---- |
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TSM = Technical Service Manual
75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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If you aim towards gearing your car for 32 mph/1000 rpm in 5th gear your final drive will be pretty much on the money. My choice? 3.08:1
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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71hornet6
AMC Nut Joined: Nov/18/2012 Location: Oakland, CA Status: Offline Points: 433 |
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That's an interesting way to do it Axle gear wheel MPH 5th gear RPM 3.15 26" 32 .75 977 3.31 .. .. .. 1027 3.15 25.5" 70 .75 2179 3.31 .. .. .. 2290 Seems like consensus is centered around 3.15 |
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'71 FrankenHornet:
'72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
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Red Devil
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
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A friend had a Mustang 5.0 with T5 with 3.35 1st, 0.68 5th, 3.73 rear. Worked fine on street and track and got good mileage. Easy on the clutch in town and starting on hills. Would shift 1st to 3rd during normal cruising.
If you've got a hot 258 in a Hornet with 0.63 OD, I'd stick with the 3.54s for now. Hope this helps,RD. |
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