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rambler engine swap |
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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If your welding and fabrication skills are able to be evaluated well, than putting a more modern engine in the car along with installing an open drive shaft rear axle so that it can be driven by the engine. This includes installing a new enough engine (the 232 qualifies) with a more modern transmission to get things done with is a realistic idea. But nothing is a BOLT in.
I have seen examples of this a number of times at "Hot Rod" type cruise nights. But is it worth it to you and your family to go through this much effort for the fabrication it takes to get it done? And would the end result be worth when done. It is a great project, but is it realistic? |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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if it were my car, i'd simply put the 232 in front of the existing flashomatic and torque tube and go. it is a major job to fit the open driveline to the TT car chassis, and there's nothing wrong with the Flash-O-Matic (Borg Warner 35) or even the torque tube system.
the transmission is old, but quite reliable, as long as the throttle cable is adjusted BY THE BOOK (factory technical service manual). i had the fluid on mine changed every couple years, ran it for 21 years HARD, rebuilt twice. a full rebuild will cost more out the door than the Torqueflite by a couple hundred bucks; you'll spend $1000 to get all that "newer" stuff in there... why bother? there are a lot of hidden gotchas... you have to change the steering column since the shifters are in no way compatible. the Torqueflite has the same spacing between all gears P R N D 2 1 but the current trans has different spacing between P and R, and not only, the space between each detent is different. P.I.T.A. the axle is the same axle, but with the funny torque tube. that tube though makes the u-joint last forever, and keeps it clean. the big trunnion rubber goes bad, now repro'd. same brakes, gears, fluid, etc. its heavy though! the rear suspension in the TT car is quite nice. coil springs, panhard, the TT locates fore/aft, and overlooked by most, there are thrust bushings up between the transmission x-member and the chassis that absorb fore/aft thrust. to replace all that, youll have to engineer up a locating system for the axle. too many people go with a simple parallel bar system and they bind in body roll. OK for dragstrip, sucks for the road. and precisely what is the expected advantage to all that work? i can't see any, except the 232 vs. 195.6, which is sort-of a bolt in... i don't mean to be a nay-sayer on a project if you're hot do to it, for fun. i do more than my share of "foolish" projects! i guess my larger point is, the current trans and axle work very, very well, the torqueflite and open rear won't make the car faster, ride better, or enough easier to work on/repair than to just make the current stuff work. the 232 may be a big advantage to you though. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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If you've done engine swaps and suspension work before it's not a hard job. If it's your first, well, it's one of the easier ones, but a lot of work. See this thread: http://theamcforum.com/forum/rear-end-swap-5666-classic_topic11214.html. You have several options, from hard to easy. TomJ made a simple arrangement for his American roadster that will work very well for this type of swap: http://sensitiveresearch.com/1961-Rambler-Roadster/axletransupgrade/index.html. Scroll down to "Wishbone Rear Suspension". You do have a trans crossmember to hang things on. Just remember that it's a rubber mounted crossmember -- replace those rubber mounts on each side with new ones from Galvin's. They are often overlooked because I can't think of any other US make that had anything like them. As pointed out. lots of fab work. Note that a Ford Ranger axle is close enough to the right width that narrowing is not necessary (Explorer axle is 1.5" wider than Ranger). TomJ has the smaller American, that's why he had to narrow an axle.
You CAN use the 72+ engine with your existing transmission, but it takes finding a few parts. Mainly the bell housing from a 67-71 290/304 V-8. Those used the BW M-4x series and are bolt compatible with the M-35. I'm not sure about the flexplate diameter. I think you would use the 196 flexplate and converter. I've heard of this being done but never did it myself. May require the V-8 converter and flexplate rebalanced to neutral. Could be just as much work to use what you have as to switch to a more modern engine and trans. By the way, it's just about as much work to use the 232 as any other engine, so if you're set on swapping consider a 4.0L (I have one in my 63) or even a modern V-6 or V-8 from another rear drive vehicle. You will have a bit more work to use EFI, but transplanting a stock system from another vehicle isn't that hard. You will have to research the particulars on using whatever EFI system you choose, but there are ways around most issues. Some aren't so cheap though. If this is a car you plan to keep long term that's not so bad though. Read up in the Frankenrambler section on different swaps. And if you decide to go with something other than an AMC engine make your swap posts there. Just engine related -- it's okay to post suspension questions in the suspension forum, etc. |
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Frank Swygert
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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Like Frank says find a T/C and bell housing from a 290 2V to use your 72 232. I have no experience with that swap.
Like Tom says find an early 64 t0 71 232 and bell housing with T/C for a 232. The 232 T/C ring gear is 1/2" larger diameter than the 196 ring gear, hence you need the T/C and bell housing together as a pair. With some modification a 196 bell and ring gear can be made to work with an early 232. |
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kauder85
AMC Fan Joined: Sep/22/2016 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Can I buy this wishbone setup somewhere or do I have fabricate it myself
(The Son) Edited by kauder85 - Mar/08/2017 at 5:10am |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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You will have to fabricate any rear suspension setup for a torque tube Rambler. The Hot Rods to heck truck arm setup is closest to a bolt in, and it still needs a little work.
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Frank Swygert
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kauder85
AMC Fan Joined: Sep/22/2016 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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So my next question is I found a amc 327 out of a 65 ambassador 990 it has the torque tube setup will this work for mine all help would be great
(The son) Edited by kauder85 - Mar/08/2017 at 3:12am |
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purple72Gremlin
AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16614 |
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tyrodtom
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 6214 |
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That's a problem, the automatic in your car wouldn't last long behind a 327, even if you did manage to adapt it.
And you can't use the entire drivetrain from the 65 because your car has a 112 in wheelbase, the 65 Ambassador is 116 in. wheelbase, the torque tube and/or the transmission tailhousing is too long.
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66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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kauder85
AMC Fan Joined: Sep/22/2016 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Can the torque tube be fabbed to fit ? (The Dad)
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