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R154 adapted to AMC kit feeler

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71hornet6 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 71hornet6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: R154 adapted to AMC kit feeler
    Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 12:02am
Intro:
-The AX15 is a great Japanese 5 speed native to the 4.0L and easily bolts to AMC with the right parts.
http://theamcforum.com/forum/72-amc-258-to-2wd-ax15-5-speed-part-by-part-list_topic52260.html
-The R150 and R154 are closely related to the AX15, with slightly different gearing, but they have the same gear box housing and trans face that bolts to the 4.0L bell. The AX15 and R150 are truck trans with a slow first gear so they are not suited for an AMC hot rod passenger car.
-The R154, however, is geared for a sports car. It was originally found in the Toyota Supra Turbo MKIII ('86.5-92), which has a similar power to weight ratio and rear gearing as a hot rod AMC. This gear box is venerated by hot rodders as the "other" trans swap for weird projects rat rodded using the amazing number of bellhousings that use this trans to bell bolt pattern. (Warning: the below link contains enough information and possibilities to make your head explode.)
http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=4740
The R154 can be adapted to AMC as it bolts to the AX15 bell and has a similar input shaft.

Below you can see my 2WD AX15 and R154 swapping bellhousings

Assuming I could adapt the R154 5 speed to AMC, via a large collection of available parts, including lots of stock AX15 parts, who would want one?

The clutch side of the R154 could be adapted with AX15 parts and an available pilot bearing and clutch disc via Advance Adapters.

The rear half of the R154 could be replaced with a 2wd AX15 main shaft and tail housing to put the shifter in more optimal position.
http://theamcforum.com/forum/ax15-shifter-options_topic58500_page2.html?KW=r154
Obviously you can wait until I make this weird hybrid transmission before you say you want one...
I'm asking to get a feel for demand. It's hard to find cores and if there were maybe 4 other people interested I could start stocking up on cores whenever they were available and make 5 of them. [I currently have 2 R154 and 1 2WD AX15 plus bell etc. but have access to one more R154 and could grab maybe 2 more 2WD AX15 setups.] It would be good to plan ahead for this if people are interested since neither the R154 or 2WD AX15 are very common.

I'm more interested in doing it for the love of AMC than to make money. An adapted R154 could fill a large gap in available AMC transmissions between a T-5z (330 ft.lbs torque) and expensive Viper-spec T56 (can be built up to 800 ft.lbs) or Richmond transmission setups.

If you have no idea what I'm talking about - that's OK. I've been getting WAY into it.
If you know what I'm talking about and are interested - post here or send me a message.

Edited by 71hornet6 - Oct/18/2014 at 9:16pm
'71 FrankenHornet:
'72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM
AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter
AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac
Dual Exhaust
Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garsod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 2:31am
PM Sent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71hornet6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 12:49pm
This is where the input shaft tip is relative to the bell on the AX15

This is the R154 in the AX15 bell.

It's not very clear but the R154 input shaft is 5/16" shorter. BUT - that's "just the tip". The splines on both are basically even. So we just need a pilot bearing that sticks out 5/16". Not bad at all. You should see the stuff they pull on Pirate4x4. Advance Adapters has one that is 1" wide, 1.5" long, with the Toyota bearing in the middle. May need to be shaved down a bit in length but hey, I got a chop saw and a metal blade... or something like that. Click the pic for the link:

Then we need a special disc. 21 spline (Toyota/Import style), 10.5" (Jeep/domestic) diameter. Once again, thanks Advance Adapters!

'71 FrankenHornet:
'72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM
AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter
AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac
Dual Exhaust
Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars
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71hornet6 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71hornet6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 1:03pm
Now time to swap the R154 input bearing retainer. If you are planning on doing part II: the main shaft and tailhousing swap, you don't need to RTV it on there because you have to take off the input bearing retainer again when you disassemble the trans to take out the main shaft.

Thanks SupraForum:

You COULD do this conversion with the internal slave setup (above left). But that would be dumb. If you don't believe me, you will when you have to drop your transmission because the slave failed. Like on my P.i.t.A. '95 Ford Ranger.

If you are bolting to the AMC L6... use the 4.0L flywheel. You can swap flywheels on the 6 because they're internally balanced and pretty similar. The early 258 flywheel is huge, sticks out an extra 5/16" and throws off the clutch geometry to the point of non function.
When bolting to the AMC V8, you must use the native flywheel. I am told the AX15 bolts up to an AMC V8 with no problem.
However, if there's a problem, there's someone trying to make a buck solving that problem.
Here's a good example - this totally cool adjustable throwout bearing from Novak-Adapt.


Edited by 71hornet6 - Oct/18/2014 at 6:35pm
'71 FrankenHornet:
'72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM
AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter
AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac
Dual Exhaust
Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars
Back to Top
71hornet6 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71hornet6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 1:29pm
Hopefully you grabbed the slave cylinder when you pulled your '93+ AX15 2WD. You can cut the plastic line with tin snips.
Then you'll need this (click for link):


Once you put in that brass fitting, you can use a proper braided hose to go to your hydraulic master cylinder. I used a setup from an '84 Eagle. On the master, you'll need another funny brass fitting, adapting the flare fitting to -3 AN hose. IIRC my -3 AN hose is 42" long.

I KNOW it's starting to look like an advertisement for adapter companies but that's it!

THIS IS THE END OF THE CLUTCH SIDE

phase two, swapping the main shafts and tailhousings, will be coming soon...




Edited by 71hornet6 - Oct/18/2014 at 7:16pm
'71 FrankenHornet:
'72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM
AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter
AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac
Dual Exhaust
Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars
Back to Top
71hornet6 View Drop Down
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Joined: Nov/18/2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71hornet6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 7:03pm
To take the transmissions apart, watch these videos:
It's really not hard. I swear. Watch the videos and write down the steps. Writing them down helped me memorize the steps. Maybe it helps you to sing the steps as you watch the video to remember them. Do that then.
You just need some metric sockets, a magnet, snap ring pliers, and a harmonic dampener puller to take off 5th gear.
You can skip taking off the shift rails if you're doing a basic rebuild and not a complete teardown.
In that case you can follow this guys pictorial 

Once you open it up, it will look like this (this is actually a AX15 4x4 trans I'm working on)
The only differences between the AX15 2WD and 4WD is the main shaft and tailhousing. Those have to go together.
Here you can see the length of the output/main shaft matches its 4x4 rear housing or intermediary housing.
Once you take off 5th gear and reverse, the counter gear comes loose.
Wouldn't it be so much easier if you could just swap the input shaft?
The reason you cannot, is because the counter gear is one piece and so you can swap input shafts between AX15 and R150 and R151 because they have 29 teeth on the input gear. The R154 has 34 teeth and won't swap with any other transmission. I have a theory that the number of teeth on the input shaft hints at the torque rating:
Lowest to highest torque rating, by box and input teeth
Small box
AX-5                               27 teeth
W55, W56, W58, W59 - 32 tooth
Big Box
AX15, R150, R151           29 teeth
R154                               34 teeth

Aisin doesn't give good torque information unfortunately

Here you can see the input shaft with the aforementioned teeth and where it separates from the main/output shaft.

Now you can take out the main shafts out and take them to the transmission shop to have the gears switched. You probably want to bring a basic rebuild kit with bearings and synchros with you. The end is in sight! 

Once you get them back, put it all back together, and bolt it on...


Edited by 71hornet6 - Oct/18/2014 at 7:41pm
'71 FrankenHornet:
'72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM
AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter
AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac
Dual Exhaust
Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars
Back to Top
garsod View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garsod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 7:28pm
Looks like you have this well in hand. Keep us posted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71hornet6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/19/2014 at 6:37pm
I picked up enough cores to make two of these hybrid transmissions -
(the other 2WD AX15 is already in the Hornet)

I have access to a third R154 for $600. I'm tempted to get it because otherwise it's gonna be another 3-6 months before one is for sale again.
'71 FrankenHornet:
'72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM
AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter
AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac
Dual Exhaust
Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars
Back to Top
71hornet6 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71hornet6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/20/2014 at 1:04pm
Trying to figure out what upgrades to get from Marlin Crawler. These three are the internal upgrades for their "R154 HD". The thrust washer is recommended for anything more than 300 pounds of torque, so that's a must. This whole thing would be pointless if I couldn't get well above that because I'd just buy a T-5z rated at 330lbs.
The shift fork seems unnecessary because I'm not going to be trying to mash into gears if the synchros are going out. I'm on the fence about the rear bearing retainer, as I may never need that reinforcement which I'm guessing is well over 400 ft.lbs. which I'm not anywhere near having to worry about. I'm making the first one for my Hornet with the availability to handle a supercharger one day on the 258. The second one I'm building with a hot 401 in mind where I think it will make sense at the price point without being overkill.



I guess a well built 401 can get 500lbs of torque... So then I should get the bearing plate for the second trans I make but not the shift fork? What do you guys think? Should I just get the "suite" and make a Marlin knock-off?
'71 FrankenHornet:
'72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM
AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter
AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac
Dual Exhaust
Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars
Back to Top
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Class Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/20/2014 at 5:22pm
What are the gear ratios for the finished trans?
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