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T-10 First Gear Ratio

Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Transmission & Drivetrain
Forum Description: If it's between the engine and wheels, it goes here
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9897
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Topic: T-10 First Gear Ratio
Posted By: 6PakBee
Subject: T-10 First Gear Ratio
Date Posted: Apr/11/2009 at 6:45am
Is there any way to take the AMC T-10 transmission with the 2.23 first gear ratio and drop it to something lower by mixing and matching GM/Ford/Mopar parts?  I'm not shooting for a specific first gear number but something lower than the 2.23.

-------------
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach



Replies:
Posted By: superk401
Date Posted: Apr/11/2009 at 10:11pm
have to change the main shaft

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superk401


Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 7:02am
Originally posted by superk401 superk401 wrote:

have to change the main shaft


Okay, to what?  I'm assuming you have to keep the AMC input shaft.  Is there a website that has choices?  Really struggling here.


-------------
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach


Posted By: scott
Date Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 9:10am

It would probably be easiest to find the 2.64 first gear AMC T10. They are a little hard to find, but they are out there with a little searching. That way you're not buying parts to mix & match that supposedly will work, but won't fit once you buy them. The 2.64 AMC T10 will most likely end up being cheaper in the long run.

Best of all is a T5 swap, with the 2.95 first gear & overdrive!! If you ever get to the Pittsburgh area, I'll let you take my T5 equipped Rebel for a drive. You'll be a convert.   Scott 



Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 6:25am
Scott, thanks for the reply and the offer.  I get to Pittsburgh every other year or so.  Next time I'm in town, I'll PM you and maybe we can set something up.

-------------
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach


Posted By: Ram Air Rick
Date Posted: Apr/17/2009 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by 6PakBee 6PakBee wrote:

Is there any way to take the AMC T-10 transmission with the 2.23 first gear ratio and drop it to something lower by mixing and matching GM/Ford/Mopar parts?  I'm not shooting for a specific first gear number but something lower than the 2.23.
 
Roger,
 
I've heard that since this is a T-10 transmission , Liberty Gears can provide the internals necessary,to make other first gear ratios:        http://www.libertysgears.com/ - http://www.libertysgears.com/
 
 
Now I have not checked this option out myself,but if you do,would you post your finding here?
 
Finding a 2.43 or 2.64 T-10 box,can sometimes be hard,and then it's used stuff anyhow.
No telling what you are going to get.
 
Also,I've seen information that says that you can tell the different T-10 Transmission 1st gear ratios,from the rings on the input shaft.Now I don't remember off the top of my head which ratios corresponded with how many rings,but as I do remember it,the information that I had,was incorrect for what I was finding with the transmissions 1st gear ratio.Anyone got the real skinny on this info.?
 
Rich C.
 
 


Posted By: PHAT69AMX
Date Posted: Apr/18/2009 at 1:19am
Lifted from other threads:
 
There is a very easy way to find out what internal gears you have
(assuming the trannie is out of the car)....
On the input shaft, with the 10 splines....
you will notice some faintish grooves that run "around" the splines...
 
2:23 grears have 5 such grooves
2.43 gears have 4 such grooves
2.64 gears have 3 grooves
 
If your case is aluminum (Super T-10), Then...
 
2.43 gears have one groove
2.64 gears have one groove
 
Thus in that instance of the Super T-10 or aluminum cased T-10 you have to turn the input shaft (with the trannie in first gear) and count how many times the input turns to turn the output around once. Use a marker and paint a input groove and the input guide and tape the output shaft and mark it.
 
http://www.skspeed.com/aboutsk/ - http://www.skspeed.com/aboutsk/
 
S&K Speed in New York can supply parts to convert to a 2:64 ratio, the way I did mine was to find an AMC 20 tooth input shaft, then use Chevy gears for the rest, you do have to have a spacer made to fit the Chevy 3rd gear, the AMC gear has a flat back and the Chevy Super T-10 is recessed to allow for a thicker flange on the main shaft. It worked great and is the ticket, your car will be totally different than the close ratio tranny,
Anyway, contact S&K, the owner is the guy to talk to and he has the experience from two S/S AMX's. They can supply any or all parts needed, you can even get a main drive shaft that fits the AMC tranny that has the thick flange which eliminates the need for the spacer. They also have nickle gears, including clusters. The difficult part may be the long 20 tooth input shaft, but when I did mine (3 years ago) he said they were on the verge of being made.
If it were me, I would disasemble both transmissions, clean thoroughly, take best parts from both, get small parts rebuild kit (includes bearings, gaskets and so on), the gears needed for the ratio conversion and do it yourself. You won't need a dummy shaft, just use wheel bearing grease to hold the bearings in place.
He said their Super Stock AMX's went low 10's with a T-10 like mine, but to go faster they did convert to nickle gears.


-------------


Link to a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MySiKQsmWxU" rel="nofollow - Short YouTube Burnout Video



Posted By: Ram Air Rick
Date Posted: Apr/18/2009 at 10:37am
[QUOTE=PHAT69AMX]
Lifted from other threads:
 
There is a very easy way to find out what internal gears you have
(assuming the trannie is out of the car)....
On the input shaft, with the 10 splines....
you will notice some faintish grooves that run "around" the splines...
 
2:23 grears have 5 such grooves
2.43 gears have 4 such grooves
2.64 gears have 3 grooves
 
If your case is aluminum (Super T-10), Then...
 
2.43 gears have one groove
2.64 gears have one groove
 
Thus in that instance of the Super T-10 or aluminum cased T-10 you have to turn the input shaft (with the trannie in first gear) and count how many times the input turns to turn the output around once. Use a marker and paint a input groove and the input guide and tape the output shaft and mark it.
 
 
 
Phat,
 
Thanks for the reply.The information that you provided,is the info. that I cannot seem to reconcile.I've seen it before ,and I tried to get it to workout with other AMC T-10 transmissions,and it just didn't seem to work out.
 
That said,I went into my basement,and just checked a T-10 that I had laying around from a 1968 AMX. It has 4 grooves on the input shaft .  2.43 box then right? Well I marked the input shaft,and snout for reference,and then the output shaft and shaft housing also. I rotated the input shaft till the output shaft made one complete revolution.
 
Now the input shaft is nice in the it has 10 splines each equaling 1 tenth of a revolution .Right?
 
It (input shaft) rotated 2 turns, 2 and a half splines past the start point,for that one revolution of the output shaft. Am I doing something wrong? Seems to me that 2 turns plus the 2 and a half splines .25 would be 2.25 or 2.23 ,and would indicate that this four spline box is a 2.23 unit?
 
I'm just not sure if I am missing something,but that is why I'm apprehensive about the accepted information?
 
Am I doing the wrong ?
 
Thanks for the help.
 
Rich C.


Posted By: PHAT69AMX
Date Posted: Apr/18/2009 at 11:21am
Have read that number of grooves in shaft is not always a reliable way to tell ratio.
The 2.23 from counting roatations and splines sounds right.
Isn't there also a "letter code" in the case casting that indicates ratio ?


-------------


Link to a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MySiKQsmWxU" rel="nofollow - Short YouTube Burnout Video



Posted By: Ram Air Rick
Date Posted: Apr/19/2009 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by PHAT69AMX PHAT69AMX wrote:

Have read that number of grooves in shaft is not always a reliable way to tell ratio.
The 2.23 from counting roatations and splines sounds right.
Isn't there also a "letter code" in the case casting that indicates ratio ?
 
PHAT,
 
I went and looked both for some information that I had (documents),and at the transmission in question.
 
The docs coincide with what you posted earlier and in addtion to this my docs had the letter codes posted with each ratio.I added that portion to the text that you supplied below:
 
2:23 grears have 5 such grooves    "V"
2.43 gears have 4 such grooves      "P"
2.64 gears have 3 grooves              "T"
 
If your case is aluminum (Super T-10), Then...
 
2.43 gears have one groove     "S"
2.64 gears have one groove     "W"
 
Now with the above letter codes added ,here's where the plot thickens. And it can never be something simple for me ?Dead
 
Cast into the main body housing is:     T10P-1B
                                                             W.G. DIV.
                                                             M.18.67     Q2
 
Tag attached under the trans bolt that mates the tailshaft hsg. to the main body hsg. is:
 
                                                             193964
                                                             S1-T10V
 
Now as you can see,if you went off of the main body casting numbers T10P it would indicate that it was a 2.43 box which is not supported by what I've found (2.23)
 
If you go off the stamped tag T10V it would indicate the 2.23 box which is supported by what I've found with this box.
 
As said before ,the four rings indicates the 2.43 box (employing commonly accepted postings) ,but we know that's not the case with this box.
 
My conclusions so far :
-The number of grooves on the input shaft doesn't really tell you anything,relative,to first gear ratio.
-Since the letter number combo cast into the case is not supporting what I've found this box to be ,it likely that it does not correspond to the first gear ratio either,and since the cases are interchangeable between ratios,it's unlikely they would change the casting letter code to denote this.
- The tag which is stamped with S1-T10V seems to be the only legit piece of the puzzle supported by what I have found T10V=2.23 first gear.This does make sense in that it is easy to ID a trans type with this stamped tags information,as it is put together,and allows the flexability of using the same cast case for many transmission first gear ratios without having to change the cast letter code.
 
Now, is it possble that the trans was rebuilt at one point,and the parts were flipflopped from one trans to another? Sure it's possible,but the trans that I've been using as an example came out of a 19k mile California Black plate AMX,that basically was a fairly pampered car. I'm the third owner,and I really don't think things were changed around.Besides the date code on the trans is from 1967 (M.18.67) and I've got docs that tell me this was a very early AMX for 68.
 
Can anyone fill me in on the M in M.18.67 ? It looks to me that the 18 is the day of the month,and 67 should be the year 1967,but M fort the month ? March ,May? M would exceed the number of months in the calender by one month.Unless they skipped A?
 
Rich C.


Posted By: PHAT69AMX
Date Posted: Apr/19/2009 at 1:10pm
Maybe "M" is December since "I" is usually skipped ?
Other info makes since, thanks for the Letter codes.


-------------


Link to a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MySiKQsmWxU" rel="nofollow - Short YouTube Burnout Video



Posted By: Ram Air Rick
Date Posted: Apr/19/2009 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by PHAT69AMX PHAT69AMX wrote:

Maybe "M" is December since "I" is usually skipped ?
Other info makes since, thanks for the Letter codes.
 
Good thinking PHAT!
 
Seems to be supported by something else that I found on the web too!
 
Rich C.


Posted By: Ram Air Rick
Date Posted: Apr/19/2009 at 1:59pm
OK
 
One last thing that I found and verified.Sleepy
 
The stamped steel tags number was actually :
 
3193964  not 193964
 
AS1 T10V  not S1 T10V
 
Realizing that 3193964 looks an aweful lot like an AMC part number,I consulted my 67-72 AMC Micro-Fiche Parts Book.Here's what I found:
 
Group 6
Special Information
E3 location Note 6-1
 
The "close ratio" fourspeed transmission can be identified by vendor tag AS1-T10V or AS2-T10V and AM tag no. 3193964 or 3195689.
 
The close ratio box is the 2.23 ,and the wide ratio boxes would be considered the 2.43,or the 2.64.
 
6PAK, Sorry for the hijack !
 
For right now I'm going to quote Forest Gump ,and say "That's all I've got to say about that"
 
Rich C.


Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Apr/19/2009 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by Ram Air Rick Ram Air Rick wrote:

......6PAK, Sorry for the hijack !.......Rich C.


Rich, please don't apologize and please don't shut up!  I am absorbing all of this from you and the other great contributors to this post.  Shoot, I was even wondering if it was possible to finagle a gearset like the Mopar overdrives where 3rd was 0.73:1 and fourth was 1:1.  Mopar rotated the 3-4 shift lever on the box so that from a shifter standpoint third was fourth and fourth was third.  When I get some of my "honeydo's" done, I'm going to open the T-10 up and see what's in it.


-------------
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach


Posted By: Ram Air Rick
Date Posted: Apr/19/2009 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by 6PakBee 6PakBee wrote:

Originally posted by Ram Air Rick Ram Air Rick wrote:

......6PAK, Sorry for the hijack !.......Rich C.


Rich, please don't apologize and please don't shut up!  I am absorbing all of this from you and the other great contributors to this post.  Shoot, I was even wondering if it was possible to finagle a gearset like the Mopar overdrives where 3rd was 0.73:1 and fourth was 1:1.  Mopar rotated the 3-4 shift lever on the box so that from a shifter standpoint third was fourth and fourth was third.  When I get some of my "honeydo's" done, I'm going to open the T-10 up and see what's in it.
 
Roger,
 
Please. I'm just now getting the "H" pattern down now after years of trying to master it !LOL
 
Now you're trying to throw a curve ball my way! Geez!
 
Just a little follow up here,but I'm thinking (not sure), that the cast T10P numbers in the main case,are for an AMC T10 ?The "P" is probably BW's letter connotation for AMC and maybe even more specifically AMX,Javelin,Rebel. I've read some other posts today ,on other sites ,relative to other makes, that make me think that what I just typed might have some validity? Not sure,but probable.
 
Rich C.


Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Apr/19/2009 at 7:27pm
LOL  Rick, sorry for the confusion.  The shifter shift pattern on the OD trans is the same.  They just reversed (180 degrees) the 3-4 lever on the sidecover so when you shift to third, (the 'traditional' third) the trans is in direct, and when you shift to the traditional fourth, you are in third, hence the OD.  I looked at my T-10 (in between bouts of wood butchering) and unless it has another groove inside the bearing retainer it has four grooves in the input shaft.  It is the 2.23:1 first gear ratio by direct measurement.

-------------
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach


Posted By: Ram Air Rick
Date Posted: Apr/19/2009 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by 6PakBee 6PakBee wrote:

LOL  Rick, sorry for the confusion.  The shifter shift pattern on the OD trans is the same.  They just reversed (180 degrees) the 3-4 lever on the sidecover so when you shift to third, (the 'traditional' third) the trans is in direct, and when you shift to the traditional fourth, you are in third, hence the OD.  I looked at my T-10 (in between bouts of wood butchering) and unless it has another groove inside the bearing retainer it has four grooves in the input shaft.  It is the 2.23:1 first gear ratio by direct measurement.
 
Oh Yea !!!
 
Well any more of this and I'm going to have my cousin (twice removed) pay you a visit,to put you on "Double Secret Probation"Wink
 
Sure I took notes from your last post,but like I can read my own chicken scratch.LOL
 
Seriously though Roger,it's nice to hear that someone else is chiming in here to confirm what I'm now considering bunk,about the 3 , 4 , 5 Groove thing. Tripped me up before,but not no more....
 
Now,let us know what you find out from PHATS good tip on SK Speed Shop and/or Liberty Gears,relative to converting this mile long first gear 2.23 boxes to 2.43.or 2.64 boxes.
 
Rich C.


Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Apr/24/2009 at 11:02am
Okay, sorry for the delay but I just didn't have a chance to call anyone until now.  First off I called Liberty Gear and basically was told that they do very little work with T-10's in general and AMC T-10's in particular.  This really surprised me as I was under the impression Liberty had high strength gearing for the T-10.  But that is what I was told.
 
When I called S&K on the other hand, totally different story.  The long and short of it is that you have to have the 20 tooth AMC input shaft.  This is the input shaft used for the 2.64:1 1st gear ratio.  The original AMC 20 tooth will work or Liberty Gear (according to S&K) can take any AMC input shaft and a Chevy 20 tooth input shaft and with machining mix and match to get a 20 tooth AMC equivalent.  From then on it's Chevy gears all the way.  Pricing was roughly:
 
Cluster Gear $300
Sliders $450
Mainshaft (if necessary) $200
 
This is with the owner supplying the 20 tooth input.  Looks like it can be done!


-------------
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach


Posted By: 70amxvegas
Date Posted: Apr/26/2009 at 12:24am
i have had them both . the 2.23 has a long first but pulls hard in second. I have a 2.64 in my built  amx now but second is a dog and third pulls hard . The close ratio is better even with the long 2,23.i am switching back to the 2.23 when i have the time.


Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Apr/26/2009 at 6:41am
Originally posted by 70amxvegas 70amxvegas wrote:

i have had them both . the 2.23 has a long first but pulls hard in second. I have a 2.64 in my built  amx now but second is a dog and third pulls hard . The close ratio is better even with the long 2,23.i am switching back to the 2.23 when i have the time.


What is your opinion on splitting the difference and going to the 2.43:1 first gear?


-------------
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach


Posted By: Ram Air Rick
Date Posted: Apr/26/2009 at 9:10am
Originally posted by 6PakBee 6PakBee wrote:

Okay, sorry for the delay but I just didn't have a chance to call anyone until now.  First off I called Liberty Gear and basically was told that they do very little work with T-10's in general and AMC T-10's in particular.  This really surprised me as I was under the impression Liberty had high strength gearing for the T-10.  But that is what I was told.
 
When I called S&K on the other hand, totally different story.  The long and short of it is that you have to have the 20 tooth AMC input shaft.  This is the input shaft used for the 2.64:1 1st gear ratio.  The original AMC 20 tooth will work or Liberty Gear (according to S&K) can take any AMC input shaft and a Chevy 20 tooth input shaft and with machining mix and match to get a 20 tooth AMC equivalent.  From then on it's Chevy gears all the way.  Pricing was roughly:
 
Cluster Gear $300
Sliders $450
Mainshaft (if necessary) $200
 
This is with the owner supplying the 20 tooth input.  Looks like it can be done!
 
 
Roger,
 
Thanks for posting the leg work on that. I'll post any additional findings (if any) .One things for sure,it's not cheap.
 
Rich C.


Posted By: 70amxvegas
Date Posted: Apr/26/2009 at 1:05pm
i had a 69 bbo 390 javelin fora couple years , it may of had the 2.43 but i never checked before it was sold. it pulled hard in second but did not seem to be a very long first , but it is long gone . finding a 2.43 is harder then the 2.64 i am looking also at changing the 2.23 first gear only to a 2.43 i will let you know.


Posted By: scott
Date Posted: Apr/26/2009 at 5:51pm
As far as the 2:64 VS 2:43, more info may help. What car is this trans going in? What engine, & how is the engine built? Big or small cam? What rear ratio do you intend on running? Will this be a street or drag car? If a street car, is it level or hilly where you live? Why do you want a deeper 1st than the 2:20???
 
I've driven 2:20 geared T10's for 25 years, in a 68 343 AMX & a 70 390 Rebel. I almost always drove them  as a 3 speed: 1st, 3rd, 4th. 2nd is so close to 1st & 3rd I found it to be useless, unless pulling out on a long hill, or going for maximum acceleration. With the 2:95 1st 5 speed I installed in the Rebel I find it is much more pleasant to drive than the T10, not even taking into consideration the  overdrive.
 
Rather than converting an AMC T10 over to Chevy internals, why not use a complete Chevy T10 with the ratio you want?? Lakewood makes a bellhousing that makes that swap possible.   Scott  


Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Apr/26/2009 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by scott scott wrote:

As far as the 2:64 VS 2:43, more info may help. What car is this trans going in? What engine, & how is the engine built? Big or small cam? What rear ratio do you intend on running? Will this be a street or drag car? If a street car, is it level or hilly where you live? Why do you want a deeper 1st than the 2:20???
 
I've driven 2:20 geared T10's for 25 years, in a 68 343 AMX & a 70 390 Rebel. I almost always drove them  as a 3 speed: 1st, 3rd, 4th. 2nd is so close to 1st & 3rd I found it to be useless, unless pulling out on a long hill, or going for maximum acceleration. With the 2:95 1st 5 speed I installed in the Rebel I find it is much more pleasant to drive than the T10, not even taking into consideration the  overdrive.
 
Rather than converting an AMC T10 over to Chevy internals, why not use a complete Chevy T10 with the ratio you want?? Lakewood makes a bellhousing that makes that swap possible.   Scott  


Fair set of questions.  '70 Machine, pure stock engine, stock rear end ratio in the AMC 20 (EDIT: thanks PMM for correcting that), stock Machine wheels.  Don't plan on using it as a daily driver but it will get driven.  I've talked to quite a few owners of 390 equipped AMC's with the 2.23:1 1st gear T-10 and they all have said that it takes a lot of clutch work in slow traffic.  Most have told me that for a street car a lower first gear would be an advantage.  Why not go to an all Chevy T-10?  A couple reasons.  First, I am kind of anal and believe that AMC cars should have AMC parts.  Secondly I think this would result in a lot of other changes.  I am under the impression with the shorter input shaft that the Chevy uses, even with an aftermarket bell (scattershield?), I'd be doing driveshaft length and rear tranny mount location modifications along with a change in the shifter mount as everything moves ahead a couple inches (if I read the dimension charts correctly).  (EDIT:)  I forgot to mention that the transmission I got with the car was apart, in a box, that got rained on.  Can you say rust and lots of it?  So I wouldn't be trashing an AMC case by removing functional parts.

You guys have decades more experience than I do with AMC and I always welcome CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.


-------------
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach


Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Apr/26/2009 at 9:40pm
Originally posted by 6PakBee 6PakBee wrote:



stock rear end ratio in the Dana 20,

 and I always welcome CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.




It's not a Dana 20.


Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Apr/27/2009 at 6:09am
Originally posted by poormansMACHINE poormansMACHINE wrote:

Originally posted by 6PakBee 6PakBee wrote:



stock rear end ratio in the Dana 20,

 and I always welcome CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.




It's not a Dana 20.


I'm wondering now why I thought it was. Embarrassed   So it's an AMC corporate differential?


-------------
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach


Posted By: Peter Marano
Date Posted: Apr/27/2009 at 9:00am
AMC called the large axle the 8 7/8" axle. It was built in Kenosha by AMC.  For reasons unclear to me this axle is usually referred to as the AMC 20.   AMC also built in Kenosha the 7 9/16" axle, this axle is referred to as the AMC 35 or Dana 35.  In the mid 1980's AMC sold the equipment to Dana who then moved it to their facility and made the 7 9/16" axle for Eagles and Jeeps.


Posted By: scott
Date Posted: Apr/27/2009 at 6:33pm
I think anything lower than the 2.20 would be an improvement. In stop & go traffic the 2.20 does require lots of clutch slipping, especially in the heavy Rebel, even moreso in hilly terrain. I think you would be happy with a 2.64 first, I don't think it would be too much with a 3.54 rear ratio. I guess it comes down to what you can find. With a stock 390, you won't have any problems with the wide ratio trannys. There's plenty of torque available at all rpm's to cover the wide gap between the gears. Now if you were building a huge cammed peaky engine I could see where you might want close ratios.
 
I understand completely why you don't want to use a chevy trans. I just wanted to throw that idea out there.
 
 When I bought my Rebel, someone had installed 2.87's in the rear end. Now that was fun to get moving with the 2.20 first gear!! Getting 3.54's back in it was a big help. The 2.95 first in the 5 speed is an even bigger help. The low 1st gear (and low reverse for that matter) has made the car so much more pleasant to drive. Now keep in mind, I'm in Pittsburgh, where it is nothing but hills. My driveway is a slope as soon as I move out of the garage, the street in front of my house is a decent slope, then a hill, my favorite gas station is on a hill, & so on. When I've had the car in Ohio, where its tabletop flat the low 1st can seem a tad to much. But not hard to live with at all. When I was coming back from GAD a couple of years ago, I got caught in a huge traffic backup on the interstate. It was about 5 miles of moving 5 mph. Just let the clutch out in 1st, foot off the gas & let it chug along. The clutch would have been smoking, & my left leg begging for mercy, if it still had the 2.20 first.
 
As I mentioned before, if you are ever in the Pittsburgh area, get in touch with me. I'll let you take the Rebel for a drive. That's the best way to see what will work for you. My Rebel is a stone stock 390, right down to the emissions pump, 3.54 gears, & Machine wheels with 235-60-15's.   Scott 
   


Posted By: bigbadgreen
Date Posted: May/15/2009 at 10:24am
so if i had a  3.73 or 3.91 rear gear and a decent cam how would the close ratio work out?


Posted By: whizkidder
Date Posted: May/15/2009 at 12:41pm
I've got the 2.23 1st gear, and 3.91s in my AMX -- 390 with a Comp 280 cam (about 230 degrees at .050, and just less than 1/2 inch lift).
 
Not bad from a standing start on the street, once you get used to it.  Does require flaring, and rolling into the throttle to keep the engine far enough up on the cam to avoid a lurchy start.
 
One gets tired of it quick in a stop and go traffic situation.


-------------
Ron Frost
marne1ancient @ gmail.com
910 nine two two 0563

"There is no limit to what a man can do, so long as he does not care a straw who gets credit for it. Charles Montague


Posted By: jrsjav
Date Posted: May/18/2009 at 8:09pm
_popupControl(); Could you give me the model of that t-5 and where did you get it. How much modifications is there?

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Life's too short to be stock!!


Posted By: azfletch
Date Posted: Aug/28/2020 at 10:37am
I know I am pulling up an old thread.
I have found a complete transmission that is out of a 1968 AMC.
the part number tag is 
3195689
AS2-T10V

I understand this is a 2:23 first gear trans.

and the Main case has 
T10P-1B
date code is:
I.8.68  (I believe it is an I and not a 1)

Any ideas what the date code means?



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Mark Fletcher
72 AMX 401 with 6K original miles.
70 Mark Donohue Javelin, 390 4 speed with 47K miles.
70 AMX, 390 AT, AC Randall car.
67 Rogue Barbados Blue 290 225HP 4 speed convertible 71K miles.


Posted By: amc67rogue
Date Posted: Aug/29/2020 at 9:39am
Sept. 8th. 68>

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Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code


Posted By: 4015spdJavAMX
Date Posted: Sep/05/2020 at 2:56pm
So to continue the theme of this discussion.....

Some of you will recall from my recent Dyno Daze2 engine build that I have a hot street 401 with a bit of a ridiculous hydraulic roller cam destined for my otherwise stockish '70 AMX (3:54 rear, close ratio T-10) which is probably going to be a "challenging" to launch. I can throw more money at the problem and switch to a 5-speed tranny (and gain the OD 5th), but would prefer to explore mods to the T-10 first, as I intend to leave the car mostly stock and it is a hobby car not a daily driver of any sort.

From reading through the thread it sounds like upgrading my T-10 to a 2:64 or 2:43 its gear is still possible by spending some money at S&K speed? Anybody done this recently and know if the upgraded T-10 will withstand the 510HP/487 lb-ft motor? Or is there just a flat out better option such as an upgraded T-5 from somebody?


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1972 Jav-AMX 401 4-speed....T56 next?
1970 AMX 390 auto, now 5-speed
1970 AMX 390 4-speed, stock


Posted By: JodysTransmissions
Date Posted: Sep/05/2020 at 10:18pm
Here's another AMC 4 speed recipe setup to think outside of the box;

I have helped a few guys install a new style GM Muncie 4 speed with a 2.99:1 1st gear. The QuickTime bellhousing RM-8075 will marry an AMC V8 engine to a Muncie styled 4 speed.

These new styled 4 speeds will handle up to 700hp and my cut off is anything larger than 540CI.


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Jody Haag
https://www.facebook.com/Jodys-Transmissions-LLC-710356082386900/?pnref=lhc" rel="nofollow - Jody's Transmissions on Facebook


Posted By: JodysTransmissions
Date Posted: Sep/05/2020 at 10:24pm


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Jody Haag
https://www.facebook.com/Jodys-Transmissions-LLC-710356082386900/?pnref=lhc" rel="nofollow - Jody's Transmissions on Facebook


Posted By: JodysTransmissions
Date Posted: Sep/05/2020 at 10:32pm
Since the QuickTime RM-8075 has a shorter depth than a stock AMC bellhousing, it will take a custom built shifter to tie everything together.

But, the 2.99:1 1st gear will really wake up your driveline when compared to the 2.23:1 or 2.64:1.




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Jody Haag
https://www.facebook.com/Jodys-Transmissions-LLC-710356082386900/?pnref=lhc" rel="nofollow - Jody's Transmissions on Facebook


Posted By: 4015spdJavAMX
Date Posted: Sep/05/2020 at 11:20pm
Jody

Nothing against this as an idea but the tranny costs how much?....and it requires me to buy a $800 bell housing, mess with the driveshaft I would assume, and probably the stock mechanical clutch linkage no longer works??

While building the motor I purchased an AMC clutch & pressure plate to go with the new flywheel, this is 10-spline stuff so all that would have to be changed also.

I want to hear about T-10 solutions! Big smile


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1972 Jav-AMX 401 4-speed....T56 next?
1970 AMX 390 auto, now 5-speed
1970 AMX 390 4-speed, stock


Posted By: Trader
Date Posted: Sep/08/2020 at 10:19am
To my knowledge the guts of the "Nodular Iron" case "Power Brute" and install them in the AMC T10 Case.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-EARLY-SUPER-T10-4-SPEED-2-64-WIDE-26-x-27-REBUILT-1-YR-WARRANTY-POWER-BRUTE-/352392084905" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-EARLY-SUPER-T10-4-SPEED-2-64-WIDE-26-x-27-REBUILT-1-YR-WARRANTY-POWER-BRUTE-/352392084905
You will need your 10 spline input shaft.
You may call a performance/transmission shop or even Richmond to see if you can get the high nickel gears and associated parts for a rebuild.
If you use the higher spline input shaft and clutch to match, your transmission will take more torque.


Posted By: 4015spdJavAMX
Date Posted: Sep/08/2020 at 12:10pm
Trader, thanks that looks like some good info, I can certainly call them or other similar places to poke at this some more.

I get that the 26 spline input has more torque capability, but would assume it is shorter and thus requires the RM-8075 bell housing and probably some custom shifter work to get the new assembly to match the stock location. Plus the question if the stock Z-bar stuff is still workable. I don't mind swapping the clutch disc but was hoping to avoid the bellhousing and shifter monkey-motion.

Is the AMC input shaft the same as the Ford 10-spline? Looks like the same place has the Ford versions with the 2:64 first gear.

I will start poking at all this with some phone calls, maybe there is a tranny expert on the forum that can weigh in on these questions?


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1972 Jav-AMX 401 4-speed....T56 next?
1970 AMX 390 auto, now 5-speed
1970 AMX 390 4-speed, stock


Posted By: Trader
Date Posted: Sep/08/2020 at 12:23pm
As memory serves (that could be faulty), the Ford bell is approximately 6.4" so the Ford input shaft would be too short for an AMC.



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