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instrument gauge cluster problems

Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Electrical - non engine
Forum Description: Charging systems, lights, non-ignition system, it goes here.
URL: http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98503
Printed Date: Jul/22/2019 at 11:24am


Topic: instrument gauge cluster problems
Posted By: detmarlin65
Subject: instrument gauge cluster problems
Date Posted: Feb/09/2019 at 5:56pm
reinstalling the instrument cluster back in the dash, installed new dash bulbs and new fuel sending unit, gauges on temp and fuel read high and the main bulb (bigger bulb upper center) on circuit board flashes? how do  i go about testing for this problem. i have a 1965 marlin

thanks 


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BjH



Replies:
Posted By: george w
Date Posted: Feb/10/2019 at 5:00pm
Not sure about 65 Marlins, but starting in 67 AMC used a "flasher" bulb for the parking brake on warning light. It wasn't a wedge base bulb but rather a regular miniature bayonet style with a small, round glass globe.
Maybe you have one of these in that position as I don't believe there's such a thing as a "main" instrument cluster bulb.

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Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new.


Posted By: detmarlin65
Date Posted: Feb/10/2019 at 5:12pm
yes it is a bayonet style round glass globe in the upper middle of the board.but not were the brake warning lens is. 

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BjH


Posted By: BDCVG
Date Posted: Feb/10/2019 at 6:04pm
If You have a voltage regulator on that year dash, I'd  replace it.

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1965 Austin-Healey 3000

1970 AMX 390 5 spd, Control Freak IFS and rear coil overs,4 wheel disc brakes

2008 Subaru OBXT 5MT


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Feb/12/2019 at 6:36am
The voltage regulator is bad. Any time both the fuel and temp gauge have the same faulty signs (both reading high or low, or not at all) that's most likely the case. Best replacement is a LM7805 electronic regulator. You can probably find an original type, but the electronic one is easy and reliable, and unseen.

http://worldpowersystems.com/AMC/dashreg/index.html" rel="nofollow - http://worldpowersystems.com/AMC/dashreg/index.html


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: detmarlin65
Date Posted: Feb/12/2019 at 7:52am
i thought the 65 marlins did not have a regulator , the only part that slightly looks like a regulator
has part 105c on it. is that it?


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BjH


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Feb/13/2019 at 5:59am
Looking at the back of the instrument cluster, the IVR is to the right and above the speedometer bulge. Hard to miss, it's a little metal rectangular piece. With the cluster mounted in the dash it would be on the driver's side of the speedo, but I don't think you can remove it with the cluster in.

The Ambassador that year had the IVR built into the fuel gauge. That was surprising! I knew they put it in the fuel gauge on the Hornets and Gremlins, and late model Americans, but thought all the big cars (and up to mid 60s Americans) had a removable IVR.

Marlin is Classic based in 65 and 66, only the 67 was Ambassador based.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: detmarlin65
Date Posted: Feb/13/2019 at 6:09am
ok i see it held in by 2 peg's , i will order the part and solder it in, do i need a heat sink for the new regulator or can i just mount on board, grounded of course,

thanks


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BjH


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Feb/13/2019 at 6:37am
Mine is just mounted to the board, no heat sink. I think TomJ's was like that too (it's his website). The little tab appear to be enough. I don't even know if the thing gets warm, all I can say is mine has been in there with no issues since 2003 and at least 70K miles, many of those on long trips between Gulfport MS and Lexington SC (8-9 hours) and Dover DE to Lexington SC (9-10 hours). I made those trips a couple times a year for six years when I was in the USAF -- it was my daily driver then. Got a truck shortly after I retired in 2007 and use it for work, hardly drive the Rambler in the last 6-7 years! Got to remedy that...


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: detmarlin65
Date Posted: Feb/13/2019 at 7:25am
thanks for help, i will do that.

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BjH


Posted By: detmarlin65
Date Posted: Feb/27/2019 at 6:31am
replace the old regulator with a new LM7805 electronic  regulator on circuit board, verify  5 volts
output. Temperature  gauge works now, fuel gauge does not, grounded fuel gauge wire by tank, fuel gauge pegs high. put in new sending unit in fuel tank  previously  check ohm reading on unit check out good. brake bulb (large bulb) on circuit board still flashes, when you turn on the lights. also light switch has been replace with new one. 



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BjH


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Feb/27/2019 at 7:13am
You might need to run a ground wire from the sending unit to the body. I sanded the fuel line nipple and wrapped a wire around it, soldered on (with unit out of tank!). Then ran the other end to a screw underneath. The original grounding is just through contact with the straps. Undercoating or corrosion can interfere with the ground. Since the wire to the gauge checks out good, and I assume you checked the new sending unit, a bad ground is the only thing it could be... if it's still not working. 


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: detmarlin65
Date Posted: Feb/27/2019 at 1:13pm
i will try that next, thanks,  

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BjH


Posted By: 990V8
Date Posted: Mar/11/2019 at 7:55am
Can the electronic reg be used in the Ambo, my 63 has the reg built into the cluster.
 
My fuel/fuel mainly don't work at all, then after running some miles, they both come back simultaneously.
 
I have to pull the cluster, like to get it sorted so I don't have to pull it again.
 
Ivor


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63 Canadian Ambo 990 V8 327
Lightweight V8 SIII
Shopping Trolley


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Mar/11/2019 at 9:15am
You probably just have an intermittent (read: loose or corroded) connection either on the power or ground side of the circuit.  Joe

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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: 990V8
Date Posted: Mar/11/2019 at 12:08pm
I did wonder. When it first happened, it came back after, uhhh, 30 miles or so.
On our latest outing, it was over 200 miles. I wondered if it was something drying out.
 
No fuel gauge is a bit worrisome. The last time I had a car with no working gauge, it had a reserve tank. There was a lever on the rear wing (fender). Lift the lever, it gave another 30 miles or so. And that was in the 70s, when the supermarkets hadn't destroyed the small fuel retailers so there was a garage around every corner.
 
Ivor


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63 Canadian Ambo 990 V8 327
Lightweight V8 SIII
Shopping Trolley


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Mar/12/2019 at 5:02am
Your 63 should be exactly the same as the photos in the link with the electronic regulator conversion. You could just have a corroded connection, probably where the regulator plugs into the circuit board behind the cluster, or the regulator could be dying. I'd just replace it with the electronic one while the cluster was out myself. The regulator works by a bi-metal switch which gets hot, turns off, cools turns on -- creating an approximate average of 5V. Sounds like yours is not getting a good connection, and it could be internal due to burned points, and taking a bit to heat up, but once it starts working it's fine. So how long until the points corrode or burn enough it stops working entirely? It's only 56 years old....


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: 990V8
Date Posted: Mar/12/2019 at 6:06am
OK !!
Didn't understand what I was looking at in those pics, it's tiny !
 
Just bought one from Texas Instruments.
 
As you say, it could just be corrosion. Sometimes the signal indicators don't flash. There was a leak in the heater core that led to a lot of steam going behind the dash, might have been going on for years, and I expect that has caused some corrosion, perhaps the earthing of the whole cluster is bad.
 
Ivor


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63 Canadian Ambo 990 V8 327
Lightweight V8 SIII
Shopping Trolley


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Mar/13/2019 at 5:47am
CAREFULLY unplug the main connector to the cluster. The wires sometimes stick to the board and pull out of the connector. Not to big an issue -- spray some electric connection cleaner on them and use a small pair of needle nose pliers to twist then pull off, reinsert in connector. Not much pressure with the pliers! Then use the spray electric contact cleaner to clean the connections. If you can't find the cleaner alcohol wipes or cotton swabs dipped in alcohol will clean the pins, you can dip the connector in alcohol for a few minutes then let it hang and evaporate for a couple hours before plugging back in. Alcohol is cheap enough, and rubbing alcohol will work ok, though a more pure solvent type will work better. 


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: 990V8
Date Posted: Apr/13/2019 at 4:17am
Carefully.... ha !!
 
Just got back to this. Fortunately there was a bit of slack in the loom, I was able to flip the cluster so it was facing upwards, then tug at the plug. Noooo.
Eventually, I cut the loom.
 
With the cluster out of the car I see two old solder repairs on the pcb. Will check the continuity.
And there's a flying wire been run from earth to earth between the fuel and temp gauges so I presume the pcb was bad there as well.
 
The voltage reg has silver foil on the back, that seems a little odd or perhaps they were made that way, I see a lot of silver foil in old cars usually in the fusebox.
 
The plug... that plug with ten pins... carefully ha!! With it off the car, I had to haul and wiggle at that plug with all my strength to get it off.
One of the pins - to the oil light - was already pulled off the board, someone had repaired it by spreading some wires underneath so it made contact when the plug was pushed in. The oil light did work.
 
Was hoping to put led bulbs in but that creates a problem with the dimmer.
 
Now I need to lengthen the loom a little and put some bullet connectors on the stubs of the wires. I could solder new pins in the plug with longer tails, but I don't have all the wire colours.
 
Why is nothing ever simple? And why are none of the sets of rechargeable batteries for my camera holding charge.......
 
Ivor


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63 Canadian Ambo 990 V8 327
Lightweight V8 SIII
Shopping Trolley


Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Apr/13/2019 at 9:08am
Originally posted by 990V8 990V8 wrote:

Why is nothing ever simple? And why are none of the sets of rechargeable batteries for my camera holding charge.......
 
Ivor

I think those questions rank right up with who turns out the light when the freezer door closes, where does the fire go when it goes out, and what is the meaning of life.  As to the LM7805 chip, I know it's used a lot and was the first (to the best of my knowledge) electronic replacement for the automotive electromechanical regulator.

I personally use the version from rt-engineering as it mimics the original and isn't prone to a failure that would apply the full +12v to the gauges.  Again, just personal preference.

http://www.rt-eng.com/index.php/RTE_limiter.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.rt-eng.com/index.php/RTE_limiter.html


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Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.



Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/15/2019 at 6:31am
Any electronics store (or Amazon?) would have a multi position Molex connector (standard 0.062" pin and socket) . They come in 1-36 pin sizes, increments of two (except for the single, or course!). You might want to use one of those instead of individual connectors for the wires. I know those round connectors on the back of the original PCB are a PITA to remove, but then they have usually been on there many years... even those that have been removed a time or two like yours have probably been on 10-20 years between removals.

I use those for car stereo installs in my old vehicles. Wire one of those into the car and keep an index card with the pin-out in the glove box, wire that side up to the pigtail with the stereo. Easy to swap out that way, just get another connector and wire the pigtail, plug in.


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Frank Swygert



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