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232 Carb Options

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Category: The Garage
Forum Name: AMC 6 Cylinder Engine Repair and Modifications
Forum Description: AMC-made I-6 engine mechanical, ignition and fuel from basic repair to high-perf modifications
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98116
Printed Date: Mar/28/2024 at 11:06pm
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Topic: 232 Carb Options
Posted By: RamblinMan63
Subject: 232 Carb Options
Date Posted: Jan/13/2019 at 4:39pm
Hello,

I have a sweet "65 770 four door with a 232 in it. Stock it has a Holley 1931 carb on it. Whats a quick list down of all carb options I could use on this motor. I have access to a 2v intake as well HOWEVER I like the efficiency of an inline 6 and dont mind at all keeping a 1v on it. That is all. This car will be a daily. Ive rebuildt the brake system (master cyl. Soft/hard lines, wheel cylinders, shoes, etc) points, park plugs, ign coil, etc.

The reason I want to replace the Holley 1931 is because the FLAT accelerator pump arm style it uses is out of production and currently not available. If I were to come across the kit for a 1931 with the flat stem thatd be ok too.





Replies:
Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Jan/13/2019 at 6:29pm
Carter WCD 2-barrel if you have the manifold.
Carter RBS.
Carter YF if you can find one with the old "rock back and forth" linkage to fit your Rambler.

I don't think the little Holleys 1920/1908/1904 and certainly not the 1909 were used on the 232.
I don't think the Carter AS was used on the 232 either but it would fit I think.

Joe



-------------
Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: vinny
Date Posted: Jan/13/2019 at 6:36pm
Stock 2 bbl for them was a WCD. When changing from a RBS? single barrel on a 196 engine to the WCD on a 232 I had to modify the linkage because the throttle plate turned the opposite way and just now not being at the car I don't remember which way for which one. I don't know which way the plate in the Holley 1931 turns but could check the WCD tomorrow.  


Posted By: RamblinMan63
Date Posted: Jan/13/2019 at 8:36pm
Holley turns opposite of the carter. I imagine you just 180° the linkage arm thing. 

Yeah we have a 2v intake here. Lots of carbs. I know theres a few carter Rbs around here to i could put on.


Posted By: FSJunkie
Date Posted: Jan/14/2019 at 2:21pm
I prefer sixes with one barrel carbs to sixes with two barrel carbs. They seem to run better. By "run better" I don't mean more power, I mean they run smoother, lug better, hesitate less, and are more tolerant. They are easier to live with and have a better feel to the throttle. Also, they don't make that much less power than with a two barrel. The two barrel carb really only holds the engine back above 4000 RPM and sixes hardly ever go that high anyway.

I adore my Carter YF. It is such an ingenious and simple design. Literally the entire function of the carbruetor can be described as a diaphragm and mechanical throttle linkage that moves a metering rod up and down. The diaphragm does double-duty as the accelerator pump. Rods and jets are avaliable for tuning.



-------------
1955 Packard
1966 Marlin
1972 Wagoneer
1973 Ambassador
1977 Hornet
1982 Concord D/L
1984 Eagle Limited


Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Jan/14/2019 at 10:10pm
totally agree with everything you say. of course some of us (no names plox) can't leave things alone... but you're right, most of our cars don't rev to 4000! who cares! (see... but... the 32/36 DGEV Weber has this *tiny* primary... lol)

the YF is a great design. it's just a dumb no-brainer. we have one on my partner's '72 258 hornet that the screws holding the top to the base, come loose. i've seen this before. easy test (grab carb body and twist!) and fix (erm, tighten three screws). bi-annual choke adjust.

i've never attempted to fiddle with the tune on one.



-------------
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: Ollie
Date Posted: Jan/16/2019 at 7:49am
I am a big YF fan.......the carburetor that Won WW II

I put one on my 199 and it cured my Holley problems. Yes you have to to redo the linkage. I even had to notch a hood support frame for clearance. Increased the stock jet size to compensate for ethanol gas which increased my mpg. Simple, efficient, almost maintenance free are a few pluses 

Having AMC Fun,
Ollie


-------------
1966 American Convertible -- "The Rambler"..SOLD
1974 Postal Jeep -- "Rapid Delivery"...SOLD
1969 Rambler 220 post car--"Road Warrior"
1989 Jeep Comanche Pioneer, 4.0L, auto, 2wd


Posted By: ATLClassic
Date Posted: Jan/16/2019 at 5:36pm
I bought one for my 65 770 4 door on Ebay for $24.99 to replace the round one in the rebuild kit.  Worked great.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DIAPHRAGM-PUMP-ASSEMBLY-HOLLEY-1931-1BBL-CARBURETOR-30R-371-AMC-JEEP/401452243336" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/DIAPHRAGM-PUMP-ASSEMBLY-HOLLEY-1931-1BBL-CARBURETOR-30R-371-AMC-JEEP/401452243336


Posted By: First_Gear
Date Posted: Jan/17/2019 at 12:54am
Hmm. Anybody run the carter WCD? How is it? I have both but was planning on using the carter as the old holley that was on the car when I bought it was "remanufactured" (read garbage) and I scored a gently used WCD and manifold for basically nothing.


Posted By: vinny
Date Posted: Jan/17/2019 at 1:54am
I am having good luck with the WCD that came with the donor 232 engine I put in and haven't had to do anything to it so far. It doesn't have the momentary stumble when touching the throttle like either of the RBS carbs did that I used on a 196, meaning that the accelerator pump setup is better. It can be made to bog down somewhat at low RPM if giving it too much throttle but likes the top end.


Posted By: FSJunkie
Date Posted: Jan/17/2019 at 2:37am
The WCD functionally works similar to the YF, just multiply everything by two.

I had a 232 with a WCD for a short while. It ran really well at high speeds but was twitchy at low speeds. It would launch harder off the line than I wanted for normal driving unless I was very gentle on the throttle. What I mean is the slightest opening of the throttle off idle would cause a great change in engine power output. I find throttle response like that fatiguing. It's harder to precisely control the engine. The tune also had to be just right or it would hesitate or try to stall off the line. The larger a carburetor is for a given engine, the more prone it will be to stall and hesitate off idle.

My YF was also far too lean in stock jetting. I have an assortment of jets and rods for it but I found that increasing the main jet size from .101" to .105" using the stock metering rod works well in most all conditions and altitudes.

-------------
1955 Packard
1966 Marlin
1972 Wagoneer
1973 Ambassador
1977 Hornet
1982 Concord D/L
1984 Eagle Limited


Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Jan/17/2019 at 11:08pm
the WCD i had ran just great, was easy to get right and never had a bit of trouble. i ditched it because it starves out in turns. nothing you'd get in normal driving. "not a performance carb" would be my assessment, but a reliable carb.


-------------
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Jan/18/2019 at 7:09am
As Tom says, the WCD works fine for most driving. A little aggressive is ok, but get into rally racing like he's been doing and you find the starvation point. I've hit it when I was running one, but not very often (and I had my little 63 American set up to handle very well!).

Actually, unless you just want to stay old school, I'd go with a Weber 32/36. 32mm primary, only tips into the 36mm secondary when/if you need it. It's a great economy carb for a six and will probably deliver a little more power than the WCD once set up correctly. Webers are VERY tuneable, you do need the tuning kit. TomJ  can offer some advice. At the worst it's a brand new carb that will have at least as much power as the WCD, and should deliver a little better economy when on the primary only.


-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Jan/18/2019 at 12:30pm
Any carburator will be fine as long as its in good condition. And right there is the big problem. I worked on a 232, and it had the Rochester monojet on it. I know it fit, and its close to the YF....   MY 1974 258 has a YF, And I got lucky, I got a NOS YF for a 1979 232, everything was the same except for one vaccum fitting which I plugged. It runs very well .... I still have the correct 1974 YF...But it needs rebuilding.


Posted By: RamblinMan63
Date Posted: Jan/19/2019 at 2:39pm
Lots of great feed back. Thank you guys.

We have lots of carbs here, Ill look through the pile first before looking online. That being said Il be looking at a carter rbs, yf, wcd or a webber 32/36 as mentioned by frank to put on. Better mpg is preferred to power as the car will be a daily. 

Edit: im almost positive we have a carter yf here. Theres also a weber 2 barrel of a '86 toyota 22r on craigslist for $100 bucks locally.  It looks to be a 32/36.


Posted By: FSJunkie
Date Posted: Jan/22/2019 at 2:31pm
My Hornet may be a base exterior 4-door sedan with the base 232, but it was ordered with the radial tire package that included wider rims and the V8 front sway bar. It corners pretty darn good until the front end plows.

I've hammed that car through corners with the front end totally washed out many times, steering with the throttle more than the wheel. Never starved for fuel or choked with the YF carbruetor.

Never starved for fuel up hill or down. I have to REALLY slam on the brakes to make it stall in a stop.

It has the fuel return line on the fuel filter and has only tried to vapor lock a couple times, and only when it was floored in temperatures over 100 degrees with the A/C on. Really extreme conditions. It's never had any hot weather drivability problems. Never hessitates. It's the closest I've ever felt a carbruetor be to EFI. Really runs good.



-------------
1955 Packard
1966 Marlin
1972 Wagoneer
1973 Ambassador
1977 Hornet
1982 Concord D/L
1984 Eagle Limited


Posted By: tyrodtom
Date Posted: Jan/22/2019 at 6:38pm
Hammering the car through the turns may feel and look dramatic,   but you get more side force  ( G's) when your front or rear end isn't washed out.

Driving dirt track style on hardtop isn't the fastest way through a turn,   nor does it develop the most side force.


-------------
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.


Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Jan/22/2019 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by tyrodtom tyrodtom wrote:

Hammering the car through the turns may feel and look dramatic,   but you get more side force  ( G's) when your front or rear end isn't washed out.

Driving dirt track style on hardtop isn't the fastest way through a turn,   nor does it develop the most side force.
I understand.  And street driving with a stock type car wont even hit the limits.   Now when racing, and Im not going to get into specifics, Pretty much Racing will show the weak links in the car very quickly. 


Posted By: RamblinMan63
Date Posted: Jan/22/2019 at 8:27pm
I do inddeed have a froze up carter yf for 70s amc/jeep/ford. 

The accelerator is frozen up at the base of the carb. I guess Ill let it sit in an oil bath then tap at it with a hammee, maybe break it free.


Posted By: FSJunkie
Date Posted: Jan/23/2019 at 3:43am
I never said the YF was a race carburetor, that my Hornet was a race car that corners like a Lotus, or that I am a race car driver capable of extracting every last decimal point of lateral g-force from a car.

I said my YF has powered my 232 through some very demanding driving situations for a stock vehicle that has some suspension options on normal everyday roads. I have pushed that Hornet far harder than it was ever meant to be pushed and the YF has delivered fuel perfectly well through it all.




-------------
1955 Packard
1966 Marlin
1972 Wagoneer
1973 Ambassador
1977 Hornet
1982 Concord D/L
1984 Eagle Limited


Posted By: tyrodtom
Date Posted: Jan/23/2019 at 8:54am
What I meant is that the way you were driving wasn't putting the maximum side stress on the carb float,  and that's what causes most hesitation in hard turns. 
 The float jambs on it's pivots in the float chamber,  starving the engine for gas.

Drive a little less dramatic,  and you might experience a little carb hesitation.

I used to teach Racing 101 at the local race track for young racers.   Many of them learned less drama on turn entry resulted in quicker lap times.


-------------
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.


Posted By: FSJunkie
Date Posted: Jan/23/2019 at 1:26pm
You don't think the ONE example of how I have cornered my car is the best way to produce lateral g-forces.

Fine.

Because that's not the only method I have used, and it still has never hessitated.

So....take my word that I have cornered my car pretty darn hard and that it has done fine. Stop criticizing me for how I drive and stop criticizing my car. It is insulting and condescending. I do not appriciate it.


-------------
1955 Packard
1966 Marlin
1972 Wagoneer
1973 Ambassador
1977 Hornet
1982 Concord D/L
1984 Eagle Limited


Posted By: tyrodtom
Date Posted: Jan/23/2019 at 5:07pm
Wow,  so sensitive.
 I never criticized your car,  I criticized your driving.
It was the method you mentioned, that according to you, had to stress the carb so much.


-------------
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.


Posted By: RamblinMan63
Date Posted: Mar/09/2019 at 1:30pm
Hey guys, I bought a remanufactured carter yf for my 65 rambler 232. Looks like I will have to go with a cable instead of the original linkage.


Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Mar/09/2019 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by RamblinMan63 RamblinMan63 wrote:

Hey guys, I bought a remanufactured carter yf for my 65 rambler 232. Looks like I will have to go with a cable instead of the original linkage.
The cable is also safer, and it works well.  (Make sure your tank is CLEAN)....you will most likely have to do some fabrication ....


Posted By: RamblinMan63
Date Posted: Mar/09/2019 at 3:21pm
I imagined Id have to do some fab work. Ill be scoping over the car to see what Ill he working with.


Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Mar/09/2019 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by RamblinMan63 RamblinMan63 wrote:

I imagined Id have to do some fab work. Ill be scoping over the car to see what Ill he working with.
yep. It will be fun to drive when you get it straight 


Posted By: RamblinMan63
Date Posted: Mar/16/2019 at 2:45pm
I hooked up the vacuum advance to the carb spacer and not the carb itself. I got her fired up and introduced a fair amount of fuel into the insides of the engine. Going to do an oil change right about now. I realize the vacuum advance hooks up to the nipple towards the bottom of the carb. 

Whats supposed to screw into the carb spacer? Not having anything covering it is like having a wicked vacuum leak and the idle sky rockets until you cover up that hole.


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Mar/17/2019 at 3:07pm
The nipple on the spacer is usually used for a PCV valve connection.


-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: RamblinMan63
Date Posted: Mar/17/2019 at 5:31pm
Thank you. Other then that mis hap the refurbd carter yf is successful so far.


Posted By: RamblinMan63
Date Posted: May/20/2019 at 12:31pm
So,

I got her purring like a kitten but Im thinking of how to set up the throttle linkage. Of course I will also have to hook up the transmission kickdown cable.

So the kickdown cable sorta helps "tell" the transmission when to shift up right by depressing the cable down towards the trans.

What, if any, later year ramblers used the yf? Im hoping I could just swap out the linkage. The linkage connections look similar to the ford style of linkage like on the 2v 2100 used on v8s.

Thanks so far guys




Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: May/20/2019 at 10:08pm
nice! glad you got the carb straightened out! YFs are nice and boring (in all the right ways).

Originally posted by RamblinMan63 RamblinMan63 wrote:

I got her purring like a kitten but Im thinking of how to set up the throttle linkage. Of course I will also have to hook up the transmission kickdown cable.



i wouldn't drive the car without that transmission cable set up, and adjusted right. it directly determines internal pressures and you can ruin it in short order.


-------------
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: FSJunkie
Date Posted: May/21/2019 at 1:48am
Yeah you don't move that car without the transmission cable hooked up and adjusted. It's not a kickdown cable. That's a GM Turbo Hyddramatic's cable. This cable does way more than just full throttle kickdown. It literally controls everything. The transmission will be destroyed without it hooked up and adjusted right. It works just like the linkage on a Chrysler Torque Flite.

-------------
1955 Packard
1966 Marlin
1972 Wagoneer
1973 Ambassador
1977 Hornet
1982 Concord D/L
1984 Eagle Limited


Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: May/21/2019 at 5:43am
Get the correct TSM for the adjust ment on the cable.  And the only transmissions that has the mechanical "kickdown" is The C4,and C6 Ford.,the TH350 uses a cable and modulator, and they both control line pressure. All the others either use just a cable, or the modulator for line pressure...or throttle linkage like the TF.  
I can tell you more... 


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: May/21/2019 at 6:29am
The cable isn't hard to adjust. You can vary it by 2-3 turns longer or shorter than the stock adjustment, but that's it. I'm assuming you have your original linkage. Measure the trans cable arm from the pivot point (on the rod) to the hole for the trans cable clevis. You just need an arm on the carb or linkage rod that same length. The cable only has about 1.5" of travel (from memory... could be a little more or less!!).  Adjustment is pretty simple. TSM says adjust to a "loose pin fit" in the clevis with the carb at idle position, making sure the fast idle isn't set. Then lengthen by two turns. The carb linkage pushes the cable in -- pull it out before adjusting to the loose pin fit. It should pull/push by pinching the clevis end between your thumb and a finger. If it takes more grip than that the cable is too stiff and needs some attention. I ran mine from 1/2 to 1 turn more than stock. That increases pressure at low speeds for a bit better performance. IIRC if you run it 2 turns over stock (4 turns after loose pin fit) it will down-shift too soon just trying to maintain cruising speed (60 or so) going up a hill. That was in a 63 American with 196 OHV two barrel and 3.31 gears (factory "performance" gearing), and a reground cam. With 2.87 gearing and a stock 1V OHV you might not be able to run 1 turn over stock without prematurely kicking down, you'll have to try it. I wouldn't make the cable shorter (less than factory setting) unless trans pressure is greater than it should be with a gauge on the trans at idle.


-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: RamblinMan63
Date Posted: May/21/2019 at 8:37pm
I have the TSM for my car. Wow alright thanks a lot guys.

So the yf throttle opens opposite of the Holley 1931 that was on it. How would you go about hooking this all up?


Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: May/21/2019 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by RamblinMan63 RamblinMan63 wrote:

I have the TSM for my car. Wow alright thanks a lot guys.

So the yf throttle opens opposite of the Holley 1931 that was on it. How would you go about hooking this all up?
may have to figure out how to make it work


Posted By: vinny
Date Posted: May/21/2019 at 10:55pm
A torch and brazing rod comes in handy for changing the bell cranks around.


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: May/22/2019 at 7:16am
Exactly what vinny says! The lever for the trans TV cable needs to be exactly opposite of the original if the linkage rotates the opposite direction. So "under" the rod instead of over... or vice-versa. You might need to bend the cable bracket to change the angle. You can make an arm twice as long and braze or bolt/clamp to the existing if you can mod the linkage, but not sure you can do that.


-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: RamblinMan63
Date Posted: May/26/2019 at 1:52pm
It just so happens that I recently acquired a full size oxy acetylene set up totally complete with torches, welding tips, cutting tips, brazing rod, etc at an estate sale for about a $100 bucks. Ill post a picture of the carb and linkage shortly.


Posted By: RamblinMan63
Date Posted: May/26/2019 at 3:36pm
I got it pretty much figured out. I 180° the bell crank so now the carb opens up with the accelerator pedal. Im going to craft up an extension and switch the transmission cable (pictured) towards the distributor side of the engine and boom were off.


Posted By: kd4rho
Date Posted: Jul/28/2019 at 7:53pm

Frank - great info - I'm pretty sure my throttle - transmission cable shouldn't look like this after being fixed...so does anyone have a picture of what I should have? Drove it yesterday in D1 and it shifts to 2 at 5mph and 3 at 20mph...ugh. 1963 Rambler Classic 660 station wagon w/straight 6 single Carter. Thanks much!


Posted By: kd4rho
Date Posted: Jul/28/2019 at 7:54pm
Picture is https://kd4rho.imgbb.com/ idk why it's not showing...


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Jul/28/2019 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by kd4rho kd4rho wrote:

Picture is https://kd4rho.imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow - https://kd4rho.imgbb.com/ idk why it's not showing...

When I cut and past that link, IMDB says the account needs a password for access.  Joe



-------------
Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: kd4rho
Date Posted: Jul/28/2019 at 8:40pm
I give up. I cannot find anyway to upload a picture that works...I will be happy to email or text - kd4rho@arrl.net or 214-662-6167...very frustrating...


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Jul/29/2019 at 6:04am
Sent you an e-mail. The cable pushes in as the throttle opens. Just measure the length of the original arm from enter of pivot to center of hole where the cable attaches and either make an arm or find one on the carb very close to the same length. I've made arms by using a 3/8" wide piece of flat bar held to the shaft with a small u-bolt (3/16") made for cable. Drill arm for u-bolt, then clamp in a vice and twist the end 90 degrees. Works great!


-------------
Frank Swygert



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