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Pressure plate and other questions

Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Transmission & Drivetrain
Forum Description: If it's between the engine and wheels, it goes here
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=97592
Printed Date: Apr/16/2024 at 12:20pm
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Topic: Pressure plate and other questions
Posted By: kenoshakicker
Subject: Pressure plate and other questions
Date Posted: Dec/06/2018 at 5:47pm
I have removed my T-10 for a rebuild.  I noticed that the pressure plate has some wear on the fingers, it is a diaphragm style pp.  Sometimes, and only sometimes, when I would depress the clutch it would make a metal on metal sound and I am assuming this is where it was coming from. The throw out bearing does not have any gouges on it. Did I have my clutch rod adjusted so that is was pushing the throw out bearing too far into the pp?  Photos below.

I took the the trans off of the bell housing to remove it.  When reinstalling could I use studs in the bell housing instead of bolts?  Or is it easier to put the bell on the trans and put it in as on unit?

The motor is tilted back as it sits in the car right now.  Should I reattach the exhaust at the manifolds?  Or will this put too much stress on the exhaust studs?  Thanks in advance.



Replies:
Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Dec/06/2018 at 6:04pm
Just a thought, check the back side (engine side) of the pressure plate fingers to see if they have been contacting the hub or hub rivets.


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Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach


Posted By: vinny
Date Posted: Dec/06/2018 at 6:06pm
What is the history of the throw out bearing? Could it have at one time been changed out to an incorrect type? Sometimes they are flat and sometimes they are convex. I don't know what yours should be. 

I thought at first that the rust on the fingers might have come from a bad bearing but it seems to be elsewhere too so maybe just from the environment it is in.


Posted By: kenoshakicker
Date Posted: Dec/07/2018 at 5:46am
The to bearing, clutch and pp we installed brand new. The kit came from Phoenix Friction. I noticed that the little nubs on the clutch fork are slightly worn on the side facing the engine.  The to bearing is flat. Should it be convex because it is a diaphragm clutch?


Posted By: Trader
Date Posted: Dec/07/2018 at 6:57am
It may just be the picture, but the clutch fork finger looks damaged. If so, your throw out bearing is not going to release or engage properly.
Your throw out bearing sitting at an angle would scrape up your diaphragm fingers. And it would be noisy, metal scraping sound.


Posted By: kenoshakicker
Date Posted: Dec/07/2018 at 8:06am
I called Phoenix and they said the bearing in the kit should be flat.  I will pull the fork and post photos. 


Posted By: Steve_P
Date Posted: Dec/07/2018 at 8:08am
Install the bellhousing first. I have two ~4" long studs that I then thread into the bellhousing to align and guide the transmission into place. The studs are 7/16-14 bolts that I cut the heads off of. With this system and only a floor jack it's not hard for one person to do.


Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Dec/07/2018 at 8:45pm
I agree, that throw-out lever, the "finger" on the left looks like it's damaged. it should be a perfect stubby rod/cylinder. 

the release bearing surface that contacts the finger is flat. it is meant to float loosely on the transmission bearing retainer nose and "self-align" when you press the pedal. the surface gets a scuff pattern, but I've not seem much wear beyond that.

if the bearing itself was bad then it might force that flat surface to rotate, and that would sure make noise and wear. if you press the bearing flat down on a table with full body weight it ought to rotate perfectly smoothly with no crunchiness. if it's not perfectly smooth, even if it's new, it's bad.



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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: S Curry
Date Posted: Dec/08/2018 at 10:52am
What year is this on? My '70 was a bear to get the right throw out bearing. Ended up using the correct sleeve that fit the input shaft of the transmission and installed the correct bearing on the correct sleeve. The ID of the purchased throwout bearing was too big for the transmission input shaft. It wobbled  and that could be the problem that you are having...Transistion period and things changed. Most kits have the wrong throw out bearing.

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SC


Posted By: kenoshakicker
Date Posted: Dec/08/2018 at 4:09pm
This on a 1973 Javelin with the T-10. I will post photos of the fork.  I believe that both nubs are not completely round.  They have flat spots on the side that faces the engine.


Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Dec/09/2018 at 1:34am
slight flat spots are not fatal. if they're even, smooth, symmetrical and don't involve peened-over metal it might be fine. it's 50 years old. wear is inevitable. jagginess, asymmetry, gouges, etc, that's a problem. 

the real difficulty I find is the in-between stuff; new is obvious, rotten is obvious, in between is a judgement call.



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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: kenoshakicker
Date Posted: Dec/09/2018 at 8:17am
I am going to get a new fork regardless of how it is worn. Kennedy and APD both sell them. Whose is better or are they made by the same manufacturer? Kennedy's is more money but I've never had a problem with them. I dropped the trans off at the rebuilder on Fri. He said he should be calling me with what is needed for the rebuild tomorrow. I was going to send the trans out of state but a friend told me about this guy who has be doing trans for 50 years and he only about 35 miles from me. He has some AMC T10 parts on his shelves. Hopefully he will have what is needed.


Posted By: kenoshakicker
Date Posted: Dec/10/2018 at 11:07am
Here are some photos of the clutch fork.  The top nub is the one with the gouge in it.  The bottom one looks like it was filed on the very top.   When put on the to bearing it seems to have a good fit.  The only thing I see is that the back of the t.o. bearing might come in contact with fork as it is being pushed forward.  But I might not have it exactly centered.


Posted By: PHAT69AMX
Date Posted: Dec/10/2018 at 1:34pm
I've not owned a Manual Trans AMX or other AMC, but have seen questions over the years.
There is more than 1 Length of Clutch Arm Pivot that was used thru the years...
There's even mention of Hurst modifying Pivot Length for the Clutch used in the S/S AMX cars.
Correct Clutch Arm Pivot Height is another variable to getting it all set up right is my point
along with Bell Housing, Clutch Fork, T/O Brg, Trans Input, Pressure Plate, & Disc...
Incorrect height Clutch Throwout Lever Pivot has been the problem more than once...
The ( 3 ) Lengths are, from early to late:
1967-69 used   5/8"  part # 320 5362
1970-71 used   3/4"  part # 448 7604
1972-up used 1-1/16" part # 321 3859


 


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Posted By: Trader
Date Posted: Dec/10/2018 at 4:05pm
There is more going on  here with the fork.
Picture 1 and 3 of the last post show the ends of the fork, not the fingers, being worn.
Picture 3 also shows the throw out bearing riding on the fork and not just the "fingers".
Wrong bearing is likely, clutch/fork not adjusted correctly??? Or just miss-match and wrong parts.
The fork can be salvaged, finger replaced. But you have to determine if you have the correct parts. The throw out bearing should just be contacting the fingers of the fork and nothing else for movement.


Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Dec/10/2018 at 10:42pm
there are at least three different forks, straight and offset one way or the other. you can eyeball it, the pushrod, pivot and trans input shaft should all be int he same plane. likely it's the right fork, but you never know...

it may be that bad motor mounts and/or bad Z-bar allowed the relative positions to shift so that the clutch pedal is applying pressure to the fork at a bad angle. either now, or in the past.



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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: kenoshakicker
Date Posted: Dec/13/2018 at 9:08am
I have looked in the TSM for a picture of the linkage rods on the side of the T10 and can not located one.  The only rod on mine that has any adjustment is the short one, reverse.  Should any of the forward gear rods be adjustable?  I read the text on adjusting the shifter and do not quite understand what they are saying.  Thanks.  


Posted By: Steve_P
Date Posted: Dec/14/2018 at 9:12am
No adjustments on the forward rods. IIRC, the procedure is: with the transmission in neutral, put a pin thru the small lower hole on the shifter mechanism- it should go thru the matching holes in the shifter arms. Use a pin or drill bit just smaller than the hole- the TSM probably tells you the size to use. If it doesn't go thru, loosen and adjust the arms on the transmission until everything lines up on the mechanism.


Posted By: kenoshakicker
Date Posted: Dec/14/2018 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by Steve_P Steve_P wrote:

No adjustments on the forward rods. IIRC, the procedure is: with the transmission in neutral, put a pin thru the small lower hole on the shifter mechanism- it should go thru the matching holes in the shifter arms. Use a pin or drill bit just smaller than the hole- the TSM probably tells you the size to use. If it doesn't go thru, loosen and adjust the arms on the transmission until everything lines up on the mechanism.

Thanks.  After I made the last post, I reread the TSM while looking at the transmission.  I now understand.  Thanks again.



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