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69 AMX Lug Bolt removal?

Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Suspension, Steering, Brakes & Wheels
Forum Description: What makes it stop, turn, and smooths the ride
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=96263
Printed Date: Apr/17/2024 at 10:44pm
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Topic: 69 AMX Lug Bolt removal?
Posted By: david0141
Subject: 69 AMX Lug Bolt removal?
Date Posted: Sep/10/2018 at 9:10pm
How do I remove the lug bolt from the hub & rotor on a 69 AMX front disc (power)? I seen a note somewhere a while back saying that you needed to remove the swedge before pushing out the lug or you will damage the hub?



Replies:
Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: Sep/10/2018 at 10:44pm
I wish my AMX could talk. I got it from an estate sale. It had new rotors but a bad hub swedge job. Look at the lug bolt at 10:00 o'clock. There is a chunk of metal missing at the base of the lug stud. Bought a pair of used rotors on ebay, had them cut/turned, and added new bearings/races. All good now. I will be following this post to see how you resolve your issue. Last week new bushings were installed in the control arms. Some of the bushings need to be swedged. The tech did a good job....on a scale of 1 to 10 his work is about a 9.5. He did say he never wants to see AMX front end parts again. I knew better than to ask him to replace the torq-link bushings...instead chose more competent hands and sent them to 401MATCOUPE. On a ten scale he did a #ten job! It is hard to find a seasoned front end tech these days who knows 60's AMCs. Let us know how you get through this.     

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Questions are powerful tools...what's in your toolbox?


Posted By: Trader
Date Posted: Sep/11/2018 at 6:33am
I must be missing something here???
Never replaced studs on the 69 disc rotor but have done many others, no issues:
- soak overnight in dextron/acetone
- select a deep impact socket the appropriate size for the back of the stud
- set up on hydraulic press and press the studs out
- reverse and press new studs in

Are the backs of these studs welded???




Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: Sep/11/2018 at 1:21pm
Trader: Back of the lug studs are not welded. 

Galvin's sells the CORRECT lug studs.

Here is a before and after picture of before and after swedge studs.


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Questions are powerful tools...what's in your toolbox?


Posted By: david0141
Date Posted: Sep/11/2018 at 9:19pm
This is posted on Galvin's site.
TO REMOVE YOUR ORIGINAL HUB FOR THE NEW ROTOR, THESE ARE SWEDGED ON, AND THE SPECIAL TOOL IS NEEDED TO CUT THIS OFF TO REMOVE THE OLD STUDS. 
DO NOT TRY TO PRESS OUT THE OLD STUDS, THEY ARE HARDER METAL THAN THE HUB AND YOU WILL RUIN THE HUB.

Here is my hub. Notice the swedge on the lug. My question is how do I remove the Swedge?


Posted By: david0141
Date Posted: Sep/11/2018 at 9:25pm
Don't know what happened to the picture. I will post one as soon as I figure it out. Sorry.


Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: Sep/11/2018 at 9:48pm
I have researched this to no avail. It seems like a fine tooth hole saw of the right  diameter/hardness/sharpness would work with a large drill press in removing the swedge mm by mm.. 

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Questions are powerful tools...what's in your toolbox?


Posted By: Trader
Date Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 7:16am
So looked this up and agree a swedged stud is different. It's flared by a press from the opposite side of the button end. From the front after the stud is pressed in.
Taking one of those swedge removal tool takes out the flare but also removes material from the hub.
Carefully drilling/grinding or drilling center out and chisel off, the button from the back and pressing the stud from back to front seems like the cleanest removal method without damaging the hub.
Early Mack trucks swedged their studs and this was their service method.
Have never run across these things, learn something new every day.  


Posted By: White70JavelinSST
Date Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 8:16am
Originally posted by david0141 david0141 wrote:

Don't know what happened to the picture. I will post one as soon as I figure it out. Sorry.


David0141,

To post pictures, 30 points (posts) are required by list rules.


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70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972


Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 1:26pm
Here is the process of removing the swaged wheel stud:

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Questions are powerful tools...what's in your toolbox?


Posted By: david0141
Date Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 3:06pm
Thanks for the info. Where can I find the tool?


Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 4:36pm
"Where do you find the swage tool?" THAT IS the million dollar question. The tool is probably the easier of the tools to get that you will need. The 2nd step of the repair, installing a new wheel stud, also requires special tools. Swaging is basically cold forging or cold riveted into place. It will be difficult to find a swadging tool that will withstand over 20 tons of force that is required. Goodson dot com might carry the tools required. Probably have to call them. Here is the process to install the wheel stud:

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Questions are powerful tools...what's in your toolbox?


Posted By: Trader
Date Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 4:58pm
The tool is called an "Annular" or "Core" cutter but I have not found one the right size or with that taper point in my 1/2 hour searching.
Still, if you don't put a stud back in with the swage, there is no support for the rim with a tapered nut on a rim. The rim will deform.
To achieve a proper torque you would have to repair the taper if installing a standard stud.
Still of the opinion that Mack had the better removal/replacement option. 


Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 5:15pm
Yeah. It is kinda like trying to find Waldo.

 A carbide tip hollow end mill will machine away the shoulder using a drill press. This will prevent damage to the valuable hub. Always felt there was more than one way to skin a cat.


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Questions are powerful tools...what's in your toolbox?


Posted By: Javelin360
Date Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 7:30pm
Before I installed the Control Freak IFS on my 69 AMX I had similar problems with bad disc brake hubs. I just retrofitted the disc brake assemblies from a 74 Gremlin onto the AMX. Problem solved since the discs are readily available. It is a volt on modification.

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69 AMX     401/727
74 Javelin 360/727
09 Mustang Supercharged 4.6
14 Wrangler Sport 4X4
18 GMC Sierra


Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by david0141 david0141 wrote:

Thanks for the info. Where can I find the tool?

BINGO! GOODSON Tools and Supply sells the Swedge Cutting Tool. Bit pricy, Part # ST-500 is $92.99. It is for 1/2" wheel studs. Goodson also sells several other sizes. Here is a picture from their website for a 1/2" Swedge cutting tool.


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Questions are powerful tools...what's in your toolbox?


Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 10:44pm
couldn't you just hacksaw the stud flush, or cut above the flat, and mill it close to flush? then just drive the stub out normally. and/or drill out the chopped stub to relieve the metal swaged below flush, though if it were milled flush with the hub face that metal wouldn't have much strength left.

i guess i've been lucky with my 6 cyl hubs, they use flat-headed studs and serrated press-in. are serrated press-in studs available? hard to believe the swage provides much advantage. i've never had a stud come loose, that seems like it would take an awful lot of effort/abuse to accomplish.


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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: david0141
Date Posted: Sep/13/2018 at 9:02pm
Thanks everyone for the info. 
I think I will buy the tool from Goodson to remove.

One other question. Why does it need to be swedged going back in? 
Won't the wheel & lug nut hold every thing in place?


Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: Sep/13/2018 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by david0141 david0141 wrote:


One other question. Why does it need to be swedged going back in? 
Won't the wheel & lug nut hold every thing in place?

The swadge process  crushed the shoulder at the base of the wheel stud. I found this out the hard way. Bought an expensive set (4) of Tq Thrust ll  two-piece wheels. The wheels would not sit flush against the  FDB hubs because of a terrible wheel stud swadge job. 

You ask a good question and I have pondered it many times. The key would be finding the right wheel stud. I have looked at Dorman's extensive catalogs of wheel studs. It is like looking at NYPD's complete library of mug shots. It is amazing all the different dimensions that play into this. Here is the correct AMX wheel stud I got at Galvin's, the day his wheel stud vendor paid a visit. We had a short chat about how the correct wheel stud was not available until now. Here is a picture I took of the wheel stud. 


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Questions are powerful tools...what's in your toolbox?


Posted By: david0141
Date Posted: Sep/14/2018 at 7:30am
Thanks again for the help. I see where everyone says that they need to be swedged or the rim will not sit flat but my existing studs are not swedged all the way around, they are only swedged in 2 spots. Maybe 1/8" on each side. I will try to upload my picture again. If it doesnt show up you can send me your em address to david0141@yahoo.com and I will forward it to you.



Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: Sep/14/2018 at 2:37pm
The factory swadged the wheel studs which reduced any knurl from the wheel stud protruding beyond the wheel hub. The wheel stud is smaller in diameter than the wheel stud holes in the rotor. AMC evidently never intended service departments to replace the rotor alone. This deduction insinuates the  common repair was to replace with a new rotor with new hub already swadged in place as a package from the parts department. Wish we could turn the clock back to 1968 and walk into a AMC parts department and inquire.

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Questions are powerful tools...what's in your toolbox?


Posted By: Trader
Date Posted: Sep/14/2018 at 3:40pm
May be a silly question but,

has anyone had success taking a drum brake spindle hub and mating it with a slip on rotor?

It may take machining of the outside of the hub and possibly the center also, but then you would have cheaper, easily replaced rotors.

I would imagine only a place with a large inventory of brake parts could make this sort of match.


Posted By: david0141
Date Posted: Oct/09/2018 at 5:28pm
Well I have finally removed my lug studs. I bought a 13/16' Slugger bit from Amazon. Haven't got my new rotors yet so don't know how everything will go back together.


Posted By: nickleone
Date Posted: Oct/10/2018 at 11:58am
Trader,
I removed the drum from a 62 six assembly. Knocked studs out and took the hub to a local NAPA and had it turned down to fit a Previa disc (scarebird conversion). My partner in crime found a dril bit sized  for the new studs (don't remember size) and installed them.  We used slotted mags with the uni-lug pattern .
They are a pain to remove and install but my partner had them in the garage for about 30 years and never used them. He bought them cheap.

Nick


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nick
401 71 Gremlin pro rally car sold
390 V8 SX/4 pro rally car sold
1962 Classic SW T5 4 wheel disc brakes



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