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vacuum wiper pump, electric replacement...

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Forum Name: AMC 6 Cylinder Engine Repair and Modifications
Forum Description: AMC-made I-6 engine mechanical, ignition and fuel from basic repair to high-perf modifications
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94304
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Topic: vacuum wiper pump, electric replacement...
Posted By: tomj
Subject: vacuum wiper pump, electric replacement...
Date Posted: May/22/2018 at 2:12pm
so i just got back from a trip to Ely, NV (volunteer courseworker for the Silver State Classic Challenge), drove through a lot of rain, and surprise! my rebuilt wiper vacuum pump crapped out. (it decided feeding oil to the intake was more important than wiping the windshield). i rebuilt it probably 10 years ago, it was working fine until i needed it of course.

i have 12 days til i leave on the Hot Rod Power Tour and i'm sure it will rain. there's no time to get it rebuilt in time, nor time to reengineer an electrical replacement (it's extremely cramped under the instrument panel; on all later AMCs the motor is in the engine compartment, but not in mine).

i'm thinking that this electric vacuum pump, used on some diesel pickups, ought to work:

[URL]https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/a-1+cardone,641509,vacuum+pump,5172[/URL]

(Cardone 64-1509)

it's used in those truck as brake booster source and various controls, so it probably has the capacity as a booster (or standalone pump).


has anyone done this? or know anything about these diesel vacuum pumps?




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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com




Replies:
Posted By: 6768rogues
Date Posted: May/22/2018 at 6:20pm
How was it feeding oil to the intake? Was oil coming from the booster on the fuel pump? If the wiper motor still works, I would use intake vacuum and a vacuum canister, with a check valve so vacuum is not lost when the throttle is opened. It will not be perfect, but should give you fairly decent wiper action. Vacuum balls are a dime a dozen at junk yards.
Diesels are considered as not making vacuum, so if that pump runs some accessories it should work at least as a booster supplementing intake vacuum. However, from Rock at a low price I would not expect miracles. I was thinking of a pump in the $300 or more range, like this one: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-760152" rel="nofollow - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-760152


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Content intended for mature audiences. If you experience nausea or diarrhea, stop reading and seek medical attention.

Located usually near Rochester, NY and sometimes central FL.


Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: May/22/2018 at 10:00pm
lol, i saw that one. i impatiently bought the Ford diesel pump from rockauto. i'll let you know how it works.

yeah, i didn't examine it closely, just yanked it after it failed the test in the TSM, which is that the pump should run the wipers by itself, without manifold vacuum, at a possibly reduced rate. they don't budge. the motor is good and runs OK off low manifold vacuum (8-10 in hg). and this winter it was working fine, even climbing a hill in wrong gear to drop vacuum to zilch. i specifically tested for that.

i took the hose from pump to mani off, and oil dripped out. aargh. leaky diaphragm.

i'm hoping the smaller (read: cheaper) pump will have the capacity. it can't be too low, since brakes on a big truck are a priority.



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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: mixed up
Date Posted: May/22/2018 at 11:30pm
you might have to put a storage container on the pump to get the vacuum needed for the wipers but sounds like a very good idea let us know how it go's

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69 amx 290 auto
65 220 290 4spd
80 ford fairmont


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: May/23/2018 at 7:17am
It should be fine. Aftermarket vac pumps are pricey, mass produced items not so much. There are enough diesels over the last 10-20 years that the replacement vac pumps for them have got rather cheap. I think you'd have been fine with a "juice can" vac storage container from a 90s Ford truck/Crown Vic, considering your test on manifold vacuum. There is also a good electric replacement that won't take up too much space, since motor is on the far end (installed near a kick panel, probably passenger side in your case). Hot Rod Network article doesn't say much, but look through the photos -- those answer most questions.
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/1109rc-installing-ez-wiring-universal-wiper-kit/" rel="nofollow -
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/1109rc-installing-ez-wiring-universal-wiper-kit/" rel="nofollow - http://www.hotrod.com/articles/1109rc-installing-ez-wiring-universal-wiper-kit/

http://www.ezwiring.com/product-page/wiper-kit" rel="nofollow - https://www.ezwiring.com/product-page/wiper-kit


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: May/25/2018 at 11:12pm
well the thing turned out to be really tiny, like an aquarium pump. useless. i'm returning it.

i bought this thing https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/63016/10002/-1" rel="nofollow - https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/63016/10002/-1

it's unlike me to not research the crap out of things before buying but i have one week to the power tour.

this one though looks much larger capacity, but no one lists anything like CFM which is what i need to know. current draw is much higher (that could me a lousy, inefficient pump, ampere draw is nothing to brag about!) and it's intermittent duty (it should probably feed/pull from a juice can).



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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: scott
Date Posted: May/26/2018 at 5:22am
Rain X the windshield. Makes a huge difference, I hardly use the wipers in the rain. https://www.rainx.com/product/glass-water-repellents-cleaners/rainx-original-glass-treatment/#.Wwk1JIoh2vE" rel="nofollow - https://www.rainx.com/product/glass-water-repellents-cleaners/rainx-original-glass-treatment/#.Wwk1JIoh2vE


Posted By: vinny
Date Posted: May/26/2018 at 8:57am
Are you no longer using the original Carter fuel/vacuum pump? I have great confidence in them and never had a failure yet.


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: May/26/2018 at 9:15am
I don't think I'd sell that tiny vacuum pump short. The one on my 84 Chevette diesel (1.6L Isuzu diesel) was tiny as well, but supplied power brakes as well as all the HVAC stuff and cruise control. It mounted on the back of the alternator, on an extended shaft. You might need a small vac storage ball with it though. That Chevette just had one the size of a softball, just enough to act as a buffer to smooth things out. I doubt there was enough there for more than one good application of the brakes. The bigger one sure won't hurt, and probably won't need a storage buffer.

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Frank Swygert


Posted By: Greyhounds_AMX
Date Posted: May/28/2018 at 8:16pm
I'd say just hook the wiper motor up to manifold vacuum and rainx the crap out of the windshield. The wipers will work fine unless you are on a hill or passing. In those cases you lift your foot every couple of seconds to let them wipe once or twice to get a clear view.

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1968 AMX 390 w/T5


Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: May/28/2018 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by scott scott wrote:

Rain X the windshield. Makes a huge difference, I hardly use the wipers in the rain.


oh, i did! you are correct -- it makes a HUGE difference. it would have been a nightmare drive without it. even in heavy-ish rain, the crap wipers were only an inconvenience.

i'm surprised how well it works. i tried it some 20 years ago, and dont remember it being that effective. maybe it's better now, maybe i did a more careful job applying it.



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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: May/28/2018 at 10:13pm
mixed up: well in a fit of paranoia i today ordered a nice large vacuum reservoir from Summitplus i have the big pump coming from Jegs. my plan is to install the can (friday), see how long it will run the wipers after the car turns off or i pinch the hose (as a test) and if adequate, not install the $200 pump and return it. its wasteful to pay shipping etc but 2, 3 weeks on the east coast without wipers -- even with rain-X!

vinny: the Carter pump puts out up to 7 psi, too much for the Weber carb, which wants 3-4 PSI max, so i have a small carter pusher pump. so i had it installed only for the vacuum side. it's an ooooold pump, i rebuilt it probably 10 years ago, and now the diaphragm is leaking, again. so it's not a "quality" thing, but cost and effort.

farna: the outlet on the little pump was only for tiny vacuum signal hose, like 3/32".  the thing was the size of an aquarium pump! i did't 'rake it out of the box, i didnt want to install it and find it inadequate and have to eat the cost.



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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: May/28/2018 at 10:15pm
greyhound: yeah, pretty much :-) 75 mph cruise in 5th leaves me running 10 in hg or less manifold vacuum, so not a lot for the wipers. i'm hoping the fancy juice can solves it.

news at 11 as the saying goes.



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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Jun/01/2018 at 8:19pm
OK, so i installed the reservoir. this thing from Summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1464b/overview/" rel="nofollow - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1464b/overview/ . nicely made, decent size, comes with checkvalve so it's better than i could make myself.

i tore down, again, my wiper motor. it was a bit sluggish. turns out i had used a too-heavy oil last time. got it spotless, 600 grit all the sealing surfaces, lubricated it with synthetic DOT3 brake fluid. that seems about perfect as a lube.

the $230 pump from Jegs worked great, but i returned it. it's heavy, noisy, somewhat bulky, was going to need cluttery wiring and plumbing. it would however be a great match for the reservoir; with the vacuum switch (supplied) downstream of the tank it would have run the wipers at full speed with no engine assist -- but if the exhaust of the pump was plumbed to the manifold it wouldn't run often at all. too much junk under the hood though.



the reservoir by itself is probably not really adequate, but i'm going to live with it. it's good for maybe one full back and forth sweep. i tested by pinching the manifold hose flat while it was running.

my wiper motor, when off, leaks a bit. very little; but it leaks the reservoir down in 30 seconds to a minute. should the seal absolutely off? it's not like a brake booster, which will hold vacuum overnight, those have check valves. the wiper motor has a little sliding rubber valve held in place with a weak spring. i think mine's within the realm of "normal".

whatever, this is what i'm living with.






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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Jun/03/2018 at 10:48am
That sliding on-off valve will leak a little, can't get a 100%positive seal there, so you're probably withing the "normal" range. I just did the math on the size of your reservoir -- right at 1/2 gallon, so same size as the "juice can" 80s/90s Ford reservoirs (but looks nicer). The good thing is the reservoir doesn't have to power the wipers completely by itself -- there will always be a little vacuum unless your foot is on the floor. So the wipers will slow down when pulling but shouldn't stop, but could on a long hill or hard acceleration. If you get caught in the rain you need to slow down anyway, so shouldn't be too bad. Rain-X the windshield also and you should be good to go! Looking forward to seeing you.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Jun/26/2018 at 11:22pm
OK! so back home from the 2018 Power Tour, and a handful of actual rain storms. here's my experience:

the tin can resevoir from Jegs was enough. not perfect, but adequate. it provides about a full second of operation (even engine off). easy to plumb, cost effective, etc.

whoever i read that said brake fluid was a good wiper motor lubricant -- WRONG. it evaporates/gets sucked in/soaks in/disappears. a week later, after finding the motor not just inoperable but making loud sucking sounds -- internally it was COMPLETELY DRY. why did i listen to idiot pontificators on youtube.

i cleaned it and re-lubed with 10W30, all i could find. two weeks in, at least, it works fine, in fact, better than before.

next time apart, i'll use my favorite thin oil, Mobil1 0W10 or whatever it is. and axle grease on the sliding valve on top.



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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: rms827
Date Posted: Jun/27/2018 at 12:45am
Thanks for sharing, Tom. Thumbs Up   I've got this one bookmarked in case I run into issues with my own wiper motor.

Brake fluid...  5 to 1 since DOT 3 and 4 are hydroscopic, it just "evaporated" in the rain and humidity back there.


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1964 AMC Rambler Classic 660

"You can think I'm an idiot, just don't talk to me like I'm one." - Batman


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Jun/27/2018 at 5:27am
FYI -- axle grease on the slide valve because it has to fit a little loose in order to move, and the grease is thick enough to act as a seal as well as a lube.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: DocCreer
Date Posted: Jul/02/2018 at 4:37pm
So you just used the juice can

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61 American
82 eagle limited



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