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exhaust cost opinions

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Topic: exhaust cost opinions
Posted By: billd
Subject: exhaust cost opinions
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 6:14pm
Opinions are what I'm looking for, perhaps real-life examples, but I hope to keep it to like-systems so it's apples to apples, not comparing a muffler and tail pipe for a 6cyl American, for example......

I asked for a prelim "idea" for exhaust for my 73 Javelin. They shot me a couple of figures in a wide range and they were frankly shocking. OK, admittedly it's been YEARS since I had ANYONE else do even so much as a muffler on a car - come to think of it, can't even remember having that done..... but then I've always used stock, off-the-shelf parts that were made for the vehicles.....

Anyway, the car is of course the 73 Javelin with 360 - it currently has headers, collectors, 3" STRAIGHT pipes welded to the collectors, then back to Flowmaster super 40s, then dumps roughly by the rear axle (under the axle)

Plan - replace those huge city water pipes to raise the exhaust up off the road, have an H cross-over put in, and TAIL PIPES to take it out the rear, not dump it under the car.
(yeah after all the discussion, ideas and responses from my post on that topic, I have indeed been swayed to a cheaper H option, especially to keep the raspy sound out and make it sound more "muscle". Thanks for that.........)

They shot me a ROUGH idea "700-1,000 depending on mufflers" etc.
OUCH A grand for exhaust pipes? Really?
You'd think they'd have patterns on hand for the stock type tail pipes and be able to make those in a heartbeat, and the front pipes can't be that much different - a couple of angles to get more clearance and tuck them up so the exhaust can go up over the axles like stock pipes.

Mufflers - I'm torn - Flowmaster 40s - keep those or replace them - they were talking a hundred bucks PER MUFFLER for new mufflers. Really? Have decent mufflers really shot up that badly - to one hundred bucks a pop?
I guess that explains the range 700-1,000 in a way - use my mufflers or install new..

Isn't that a bit steep for a system collector to tail pipe??

The flowmaster "super 40s" don't have even ten thousand miles on 'em - the car hasn't logged that many miles since the guy put them under there, but maybe there are better or mufflers that would NOT cut power at all but still sound decent.

So what does anyone think of a grand for two pipes and mufflers going back to tail pipes?

I take it in tomorrow and they are going to actually LOOK at the car and LOOK and MEAsURE to give me a closer idea instead of a shot in the dark - but it it's that #$%%$# much money, #$%# it.



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Replies:
Posted By: THE MENACE
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 7:07pm
Sounds like they are quoting a stainless steel exhaust system??

FYI, the normal everyday price on the stainless steel Flowmaster 40 series and Super 44's for 2.5" tubing are between $95. - $120. at Summit Racing (depending on configuration and length).   

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Posted By: amxdreamer
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 7:15pm
Does that include exhaust tips Bill? I can't remember the actual number but IIRC mine was much lower than that.

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Vancouver, BC
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Posted By: george w
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 7:22pm
Quality systems using aluminized pipes can get up there and stainless is above that. Not sure about who offers a quality muffler any more now that the OEM Walkers, AP, Arvin, etc. no longer make systems for our cars.
I bought a full aluminized system for my AMX from Gardner about 5 years ago and with all the pieces it was about a grand IIRC. Looks and fits perfect though. All the right brackets and clamps.

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Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new.


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by THE MENACE THE MENACE wrote:

Sounds like they are quoting a stainless steel exhaust system??

FYI, the normal everyday price on the stainless steel Flowmaster 40 series and Super 44's for 2.5" tubing are between $95. - $120. at Summit Racing (depending on configuration and length).   


the guy the car came from called 'em "Flowmaster super 40s" if that matters..........

So then "about a hundred bucks" isn't too far off for some mufflers, then, eh?

Opinions on the Flowmaster, and in particular, the "super 40s"?

Stainless? Well I don't need stainless and I can't say the car is worth that. Too much hidden repairs, it's been fixed a lot. If it were my 70 I'd say yeah, that car is among the best of the best as far as body, STRAIGHTNESS, lack of rust, originality, LOW MILES and so on, but this car with 100,000 miles  - I can't see putting stainless under it. (but then I'm open to opinions, I DID ask, after-all!)



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Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by amxdreamer amxdreamer wrote:

Does that include exhaust tips Bill? I can't remember the actual number but IIRC mine was much lower than that.


Yeah, but Tony - I've watched the Canadian dollar against the U.S. dollar change a lot in the last few weeks HAHAHA.
Anyway, the price did shock me for sure............ I was almost speechless...... but then it seems someone else has responded that his system wasn't all that far from a grand.
I'd think for a cool grand, it should come with chrome tips with Pierre Cardin's signature on them.


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Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 7:49pm
Fabricated or press bent and size of pipes will all have an impact on final price. Quality (i.e. name brand) mufflers are expensive. Templates from back in the day for 1 3/4" or 2" pipes may not work with larger pipes like 2.5". American Racing headers are $1,600 a set, so times have definitely changed.

Can always buy a few bends, a couple of lengths of pipe and crack out the welder.


Posted By: rms827
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 7:52pm
Not surprised that you got a ton of price ranges, Bill.  Some of the specialty exhaust shops charge thousands of dollars to give imports the specific pipes and fard can for just the right sound.

Personally, I'd keep it simple; Stainless (just so it doesn't rust out as fast) with flowmasters or similar.


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Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 7:55pm
Well, like I say, it has been a while, so I have to temper my thoughts with that.

Need to go from collector to muffler, keep it as high as possible as the car REALLY sits low, then to mufflers, then tail pipes to take it out the back. Don't like it dropping out right under the axles.

And after prior discussion here, I've pretty much decided on the H type cross-over (cheaper than X and maybe better sound from what members here say)

Not sure if I keep and re-use the "Super 40s" or go something else while at it. Don't know squat about flowmaster, gotta be honest, been out of exhaust work for a long time. when I was doing it, I could pull any AMC pipe off the rack and the mufflers were perfect fits - Flowmaster likely didn't even EXIST?


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Posted By: mstrcrftr
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 8:02pm
something to consider bill is putting a separator connector in the pipes behind the trans.  that way if you have to drop the trans, you dont have to pull the entire system out.  


Posted By: one bad rambler
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 8:04pm
I don`t get why steel is so expensive...scape yards are full the price is down...fuel is down...labor is down...back in the day a custom exhaust meant 1 pipe from your header to your muffler and a tail pipe(each side)now theres 10 short pipes all welded together and for some reason people accept that as quality....It`s a shame but your est. sounds correct....

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68 AMX 390 4 Speed,68 American,64 American 2 Door Wagon Altered Wheelbase,78 Concord Build 360,727,8.8


Posted By: kenoshakicker
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 8:10pm
In Oct of 2016, on my '73 Javelin, I used the head pipes that were on the car when I bought.  The head pipes were probably put on 15-18 years before I bought it.  The guy who put it on the car years ago,  the best pipe bender I have ever seen, said the head pipes were made of a good grade of pipe and could be reused.  He added about 1 foot on each pipe to reach the mufflers.  The mufflers were the used Flowmaster 40's that came on the Hornet I bought for the engine.  I really want glasspacks but to save money I used the 40's. The tailpipes are short and exit right behind the rears tires, like an early Camaro.  I still had $140 in maybe 10 feet of pipe and 8 clamps. I would say I would have had at least $550 if  a complete system was installed
Last year I got a quote from another bender because the local guy died.  This is for my 2002 Gmc 1/2 ton 4x4. I have a set of Flowmaster tailpipes a friend gave me.  The price for a knock off FM 10 about 2 feet of 3 inch pipe and the labor to install was $450.  I am going to install it myself when the time comes.

I think this quote for your car isa little high. IMHO forget the H pipe and save yourself some money there. 




Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 8:18pm
I've been through too many glasspacks in my life.............they never seem to last as long and with my type of driving, likely even shorter life.

I have to suspect the H isn't a big factor - but with headers and totally separate systems, you have that cackle and it's not as mellow. Also a slight power difference by allowing for the balance. 
The engine is built.........  and it has headers, no head pipes. (and from what I have been finding the engine is likely to get dropped out of it and gone through a bit in a year or two)

I had thought about having some sort of joint like was used on cat converters, some sort of a four bolt flange so I could drop the center out. The transmission may also come out some day, or even just to ACCESS things!


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Posted By: 73hornut
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 8:23pm
My Javelin was $450 minus mufflers with tips, 2-1/2in,  and my gremlin was $500 minus mufflers and tips, 2-1/4in.These were manifolds to rear valance.


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74 Gremlin
79 Spirit AMX
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Posted By: kenoshakicker
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 8:27pm
IMHO This is something I would use if I had full length headers.  It offers a better seal than regular collector gaskets and it offers easy on and off capabilities.  I would chose this over an H pipe but then I like the cackle. :) 

https://www.jegs.com/i/Hedman/500/21152/10002/-1?CAWELAID=230006180001370482&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=44693592161&CATCI=pla-177238949831&CATARGETID=230006180039218666&cadevice=c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrrXx1fn02gIVzUsNCh2v3QgUEAQYBSABEgIMD_D_BwE


Posted By: Red Devil
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 8:27pm
Assuming price includes R&R current system, or is it just the pipes and new mufflers and tips?   If you had a welder, could do it for less depending on how you cost your labour ... but you already mentioned that wasn't the plan. 

I had Flowmaster 40s with LX tailpipes on my Hornet.   Got them for free from a Mustang guy updating his system.   Fit ok and lasted several years including winter salted roads.    Sounded sorta like every other Mustang with Flowmasters, if you like that kinda thing. Cool with the Burger-King crowd when in your early 20s.  Droned a bit during cruise. 

Suggest check Summit or Jegs or favourite mail-order house for pipes, mufflers and tips. Jones Max Flow seem to be an economical performance muffler if you like a big-case, straight-through glass pack rather than a tinny, drone-prone Flowmaster. 

Aluminized pipes last a long time - especially with a bit of high-temp paint.   For easy disassembly, I've got stainless band clamps just before the mufflers, so support mufflers, remove band clamps and collector bolts and drop out the mid-section w/ X-pipe.   Have a transmission jack to hoist it up for easier alignment and reassembly (tired of trying to muscle things into place). 

Hope this helps, RD


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 8:40pm
I have a welder and have a torch and made my Eagle's very complex front pipe, but nope, I'm not taking on a whole system. I'm not that good, don't have a lift, and time is a factor. I can gas weld exhaust but then my eyes have always suffered very very badly after-  migraines for a day after gas welding as well. 

I checked out eBay for complete systems and with shipping honestly it's not that far from their "without even seeing the car" wide estimate. Seriously, a stainless system shipped would be about 900. Then I'd have to put it on.
Even the non-stainless systems weren't that far blow their lower price level - and I'd have to do it myself.

So I'm starting to wonder if that isn't close to the "new normal"?

Anyway, NO, to doing it myself....... 

By the way - I like the mellow sound of the SIDEPIPES on my 70 so if I could approach that sound......


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Posted By: Red Devil
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 9:29pm
I didn't mind the Flowmaster sound - that was the heyday when everyone had them ... and the price was right.   But the drone gets tiring for long trips.   

Have big-case glass packs now (Hooker Max Flow) and like the sound better.   But they are old and glass packs tend to get louder as they age.   The Jones Max Flow mufflers are a similar design for about 1/2 the price, stainless steel case and longer case options that should be a bit quieter.   

But you have the Flowmasters, so if the car is mostly for fun and short cruises, seems simplest and most economical option just to refit them with reducers if needed.   Can always get new mufflers later if you find you don't like them ... assuming they are a standard case size and inlet/outlet arrangement.

Hope this helps, RD


Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 9:42pm
The local muffler shop that has been in business three generations quoted me $600, last Friday . The exhaust system the shop installs will be 2.25" aluminized pipe, SS Magna Flow mufflers, over the axle and out the back. The shop is three miles from my house. I see classic cars being fitted with exhaust systems every time I pass by. The grandpa drives an Edsel, the father drives a 56 Chevy truck, and the son races in autocross and dirt track. Failed to ask if the quote included a "H" pipe. Seven years ago they installed the same system on my 68 Camaro with Z28 tail pipes for $480. I showed them the free-flow exhaust manifolds that would be going on the 68 AMX, and he is very familiar with AMC. The son asked me to provide the exhaust manifold pipe flange gasket/ seals. Bought a pair (Victor Reinz F7201 for $4.74 a pair @ Rock Auto ).

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Posted By: addic
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 9:50pm
ebay has ss exhaust 2.5 or 3.0 for under $300  16 pieces

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Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/07/2018 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by addic addic wrote:

ebay has ss exhaust 2.5 or 3.0 for under $300  16 pieces


Don't know where you are seeing that - SS for AMC Javelin is way more than double that (817) and even the aluminized is OVER 350 (365) plus 75 shipping. I already searched eBay for "AMC Javelin exhaust". Only 20-some hits.

Remember - I am NOT doing the exhaust myself and am not going with a kit I have to modify in any way. No time, no lift, etc.
By the time I'd spend the day+ and effort doing it, well.......it would still be a hack job.
Even the dealerships around here send their exhaust work out to specialists - I asked a couple and both said "we don't touch exhaust, we send that out". Interesting.

So unless the eBay kit is COMPLETE with pipes to go from header collector to muffler, includes mufflers that fit, and correct tail pipes........ which I doubt ...... those I found are far higher than 300 and are stock-type systems, not for headers and are likely standard 2" pipes.





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Posted By: mmaher94087
Date Posted: May/08/2018 at 10:27am
billd, is Master Muffler still in business in Muscatine, IA? They were my go-to shop for exhaust systems.

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Mike


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/08/2018 at 1:13pm
Seriously? That's a half day drive and I'd need to trailer it there. Ouch. Sorry, has to be a reasonable drive (like 30-40 minutes).

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Posted By: mmaher94087
Date Posted: May/08/2018 at 3:01pm
They shipped complete exhaust systems to my door when I existed in California. I believe they used Yellow Freight.

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Mike


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/08/2018 at 3:12pm
Like I said - I am NOT going to do this myself. And it will be custom so there's not a way they can make pipes without the car there. They don't know the header position, cross member distance from header end, space next to the shocks (she's REALLY tight back there)

I got an estimate - actually two from the same shop (the other shop I tried said the same thing others have said "we don't do any custom work any more")

One was for name-brand mufflers (Flowmaster or Magnaflow) and the other for "knock-off mufflers" with less warranty. 
The name-brand would be 821 and the knock-offs would be 711
Tips extra - they have REALLY super-nice tips of various types but may not swing that this time. They'd use heavier flanges for collectors (thicker than the stock collector pieces) and it would have an H (contrary to one comment, they strongly recommended the cross-over and said I'd not save but a few bucks leaving it out which makes sense. The X is the most expensive to make and those are where money comes in)

It's scheduled for next Thursday - a week from this Thursday. They are getting busy, show season and all.

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Posted By: Mopar_guy
Date Posted: May/08/2018 at 3:54pm
I just got a quote for $800 in 2.5" stainless from headers to tips with Xcelerator mufflers. Tips will be extra but I already have nice tips.

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Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/08/2018 at 5:47pm
They have some really nice tips there - really nice, stainless, and some colored really cool.

Supposedly they are building this so I can easily drop the center out - unbolt the collectors and take loose a couple other spots and drop pipes out of the way, leaving tail pipes in place, for maintenance, etc.
They also give a call when they get back so far and you can come in to give a test-listen to different mufflers and options on your own car. 

Seriously, this is Iowa, worse, it's Des Moines - our options on so many things are extremely limited. Things the rest of you take for granted you can't get locally here. 


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Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: May/08/2018 at 7:35pm
Sounds like you are onto a winner. Definitely a good idea to have some means of dropping the centre, I just built mine with 2 bolt flanges behind the mufflers, take the 3 collector bolts out each side and 2 rear bolts each side and the whole section drops out.


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/08/2018 at 7:41pm
I was impressed in that they had you actually with them discussing the options, how I wanted it, what they thought, etc.
I wasn't the only "muscle car" there - it seems to be a haven for them. Another old fart came in with his classic Olds while I was there.
They saw my car and actually put boards at the base of the lift to help prevent the car's exhaust from hanging up on the way in and onto their lift.

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Posted By: myrambler
Date Posted: May/08/2018 at 9:02pm
Professional muffler in Cedar Rapids Iowa typically is around $600 for a custom bent front to rear exhaust with basic turbo mufflers and H pipe. I have the turbo muffler on my Rogue and I'm not crazy about them, plan to have something with less drone installed. A friend of mine had a set up installed on his 70 Javelin there, he provided the mufflers and they installed pipes from headers back for $450. Ask for Randy if you call for a quote. Not sure if they are a chain store or not but everyone I talk to says go see Randy, he'll treat you right. 319-366-3189


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/08/2018 at 9:26pm
Cedar Rapids is still too far to trailer the car for that - it's driveable but I'd not take it hours away as it is.
I've have to leave at 5 and not get back until 7 that night. 

I've made an appointment - and from what I'm seeing, the price is really pretty much in line what what others have gotten.
This place is less than 30 minutes away, I can drop the car off and go in later to audition mufflers, then pick it up end of day - and not have to stay there or trailer it or drive a half day there and half day back.

It costs as much to take a car half-way across the state as I'd save - then if anything was wrong, they'd still be a half state away.




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Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: May/10/2018 at 1:32pm
Exhaust material to consider for longevity.

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Posted By: LakesideRamblin
Date Posted: May/10/2018 at 3:25pm
Not a Javelin but I put a H pipe non-stainless system put in my 69 Rambler (360 engine) from the exhaust manifolds all the way back to the end of the car in August of 2017 here in the San Diego area.  I had two mufflers and chrome tips that I gave the shop to use.  The total for the installation of the H pipe exhaust system was $500.  Add another approximately $250 for my 2 Summit or Jegs chambered mufflers and 2 chrome tips and we're talking around $750 total and I believe that I reside in a more high cost area for such a service.  For what it's worth.

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Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: May/10/2018 at 6:51pm
What have you decided to have done? What size pipe, mufflers, tailpipe size? I guess you are having a H-pipe installed and flanges at the rear. Material for the pipe? Just curious.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: Greyhounds_AMX
Date Posted: May/21/2018 at 6:22pm
Stumbled across a thread that might be interesting to you. I've always used Dynomax Super Turbos due to the flow test data and the cost mostly, but as i get older now i appreciate the sound more and more.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/18-engine/399790-dynomax-super-turbos.html#/topics/399790?page=1" rel="nofollow - http://www.chevelles.com/forums/18-engine/399790-dynomax-super-turbos.html#/topics/399790?page=1

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1968 AMX 390 w/T5


Posted By: CamJam
Date Posted: May/21/2018 at 10:59pm
I have the AMX version of this system on my '69. Nothing fancy-- basically like the stock system-- and it fit ok. I had a local muffler shop install it for me. I think they charged me $180 to install. Mufflers have a nice rumble to them at idle but don't drone on the highway.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-AMC-JAVELIN-DUAL-EXHAUST-SYSTEM-ALUMINIZED-/142803268646" rel="nofollow - eBay

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'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
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Posted By: Red20
Date Posted: May/21/2018 at 11:44pm
I worked at an exhaust shop when I was 16 and remember a full dual exhaust with mufflers started at $250. I’ve always done my own exhaust since. A few years ago I got a quote for my Javelin really not wanting to do another exhaust at home and was shocked to get a $1,200 quote. I feel your frustration.

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1973 Hornet Sportabout X "yellajack" - 360/727/TracLoc DAILY DRIVER


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: May/22/2018 at 6:46am
If you like the sound of the Flowmaster Super 40s keep them. I prefer a slightly quieter turbo muffler like the Dtnomax. It's all in what you like to hear while driving.

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Frank Swygert



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