Engine Date
Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: AMC 6 Cylinder Engine Repair and Modifications
Forum Description: AMC-made I-6 engine mechanical, ignition and fuel from basic repair to high-perf modifications
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93386
Printed Date: Apr/23/2024 at 4:41am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Engine Date
Posted By: r4238id
Subject: Engine Date
Date Posted: Apr/02/2018 at 1:24am
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Can somebody assist me in dating two 196 engines?
I have a 196 flathead with an engine stamp of A31107 and a 196 OHV with an engine stamp of 30501.
Any help is greatly appreciated!
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Replies:
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/02/2018 at 7:15am
The Are you positive the flat-head is a 196? Is the water pump on front, or on the side? Prior to 1960 a serial number was used, but I don't have one beginning with an "A" for any engine size or year. The numbers I have start with 1955 though. Could the "A" be an "E"?? The first serial number for 1958 was E101. First for 1959 was E33001. The factory rounded to the nearest hundred at the beginning of the next year, so there were under 32,000 made... take away the 101 and round up... The water pump was moved to the front of the L-head when production resumed in 1958 -- no 56 or 57 flat-head six. If the pump is on the side it's a 55 or earlier model. Are you sure you're looking at the right place for the code number? On the flat-head it should be on the upper left (driver's side) corner of the block on a machined pad at the head/block parting line. OHV is in the same location -- on both under/near the oil filter mount (if so equipped... on early models oil filter was optional).
The next one is easier. 30501 date code translates to 1961, May 01. I don't know why no engine type letter between month and day (05 and 01), but have in my engine code notes that there was sometimes a date code with no type letter. That usually indicates a replacement block. Some engines used a different letter for different compression -- the 195.6 OHV didn't as all were same compression regardless of carb type. I can't swear that it's a replacement block, but it most likely is. Could have been replaced under warranty or by any previous owner. At least it's a factory replacement block.
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Frank Swygert
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Posted By: r4238id
Date Posted: Apr/02/2018 at 10:12am
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Frank - Thanks for the quick and detailed explanation.
Good to know the OHV is a factory block. I couldn't find anything that referenced a code without the engine type letter and was resulting in hours of web searches without results.
On the flathead the water pump is mounted to the front and I am certain it is a 196. I looked at the picture on my phone of the machined tag again to verify that it said A31107 and it does. I am traveling this week but will figure out how to post a picture of the engine and tag when I get back to my computer to verify I am looking at the right things.
Ryan
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Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Apr/02/2018 at 11:20am
Check closely on the second number. I had a OHV which I presumed to be a service block with the C code missing and an "S" ahead of that number. Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/03/2018 at 5:58am
That's my guess on the flat-head too -- a factory replacement or service block. Forget the A and it comes out as 1961 (3), November 07.
I forget where I got the info that date code read the same without the letter. I've only seen one or two engines like that, and here you come up with two! I think it was an older TSM...
Only the 58-65 196 flat-head had the water pump in front. 65s will have the oil filter on the oil pump (full flow). Unfortunately there is a change in the block and pump casting, so you can't use that oil pump on an earlier model. TomJ has come up with a full flow oil filter adaptation though. Requires an easy to fabricate pump cover. He made a bracket that mounts the filter to the engine, but it can be mounted anywhere. You could even use the original filter lines and location, just re-route the return line back to the pump. Note that most mods (except head/valve train related) for the OHV work on the flat-head, but aren't as necessary. No point in the cooling mod, as the flat-head head doesn't get as hot as the OHV, but wouldn't hurt.
http://sr-ix.com/AMC/195.6ohv.com/Oil-pump-mods/index.html" rel="nofollow - http://sr-ix.com/AMC/195.6ohv.com/Oil-pump-mods/index.html
http://sr-ix.com/AMC/195.6ohv.com/index.html" rel="nofollow - http://sr-ix.com/AMC/195.6ohv.com/index.html
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Frank Swygert
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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/09/2018 at 6:55am
I got an e-mail notification but see the photos you posted aren't here...
In any case, the numbers on the OHV appear to be hand stamped. That indicates that it was a factory replacement, and the code may have even been stamped by the dealership that installed it. Can't say for sure either way. The flat-head numbers don't look as even as I'd normally expect either, but definitely better than the OHV numbers.
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Frank Swygert
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Posted By: r4238id
Date Posted: Apr/09/2018 at 10:17am
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Frank - Thanks for taking the time to reply. I am new to the forum so haven't had enough posts to post pictures and attempted to use photo bucket but checked my post after and they were dead links - I am guessing because I attempted the free photo bucket account. So as not to have a useless post I deleted it.
Thanks for your answers on this - was a great help.
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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/10/2018 at 6:16am
You can post with the photobucket photos, but not all can see them. There are patches to Firefox and a couple other browsers that allow add-ons, but not for the Micrisoft browsers as far as I know. Probably why I saw them (use Firefox with the add-in). I think the photos show as a link for those who don't have the patches, or you can post them as a link to your photos.
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Frank Swygert
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Posted By: emu
Date Posted: Sep/05/2018 at 12:33am
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Hey farna, You seem to have all the answers on engine nos and dates I'm a new member , you might see my post in the new members section here I'm trying to identify what size/year/model my replacement flathead motor No. S441520 came out of , and whether my 55 Nash Statesman Super , id nos. K636654 , body no, 1917 , model no. 55(4?)5-1 , ,had a flat or ohv motor originally ? I hope you can help please Thanks emu , peter.emes@outlook.com
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Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Sep/05/2018 at 12:58am
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i've taken home and disassembled five 195.6 OHVs, and only one of them appears to have been unmolested -- all of them had been rebuilt, one had signs of two rebuilds.
i think there's multiple reasons. one, it's a very old design engine, and simply didn't last long under the 1960's increasing speeds and miles. they were econoboxes of the time, and people drove them because they were cheap and sturdy and well made (in spite of the old motor). so they got driven into the ground! these things weren't cherised, and as the Malaise Era began, AMC's rep was failing.
but to pull and engine and replace or rebuild, whether at early or advanced age, the car must have been deemed worth the bother. though of course that was an easier swap than today's cars.
all in all it's hard to read.
and to make things worse, being old world motors, there's very little meaning to part numbers and serial numbers. i have in my shop two identical sets of 195.6 OHV connecting rods -- precisely the same part number, dimensions, and completely interchangable -- but in one set each rod weighs 100 - 200 more grams, each, than each from the other set. so at some point AMC changed the rod casting and didn't even bother to change numbers. (hint: don't mix and match rods without weighing! they're heavy!)
today, you order parts by knowing the car's VIN. in 1960, you built an engine that dates back to the 40's by measuring and fitting. it's still 1960 in there.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com
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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Sep/05/2018 at 5:55am
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"I'm trying to identify what size/year/model my replacement flathead
motor No. S441520 came out of , and whether my 55 Nash Statesman Super ,
id nos. K636654 , body no, 1917 , model no. 55(4?)5-1 , ,had a flat or
ohv motor originally ?"
emu, the starting serial number for the 55 Nash Statesman (that questionable number is a 4 -- it was Series 40) is S440001 and went through S453100 for 1955. Si it appears that you have the original motor. It would be a 195.6 with 7.45:1 compression, Carter YF 1V carb, rated 100 hp. I don't know if it used a different am than the later 58 American or not, but the American was rated at 90 hp with 8:1 compression, same carb. The OHV motor wasn't introduced until 1956, and then used in the Statesman and Rambler. No flat head 195.6 for 56 or 57. 56 was the last year for the Statesman. Until 57 all the 195.6 engines had the water pump on the side, not in front. You should be able to use a later model flat-head or OHV if you needed to though, just change the radiator hoses.
I don't know all the answers, just have the right books! This info came from "The Standard Catalog of American Motors", out of print. I believe Larry Daum (mramc on here) compiled that info for the editor (John Gunnel). It was printed by Krause Publications. They later printed "The Standard Catalog of Independents", which has all the technical and number info, but left out all the sundry articles about each make. Either is a great resource. The AMC book sells for $37+ on Amazon used, the Independents for $6.50+ used. If you just want the facts get Independent. Also check Alibris for used books.
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Frank Swygert
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