Manual Transmission Oil
Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Transmission & Drivetrain
Forum Description: If it's between the engine and wheels, it goes here
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91279
Printed Date: Apr/18/2024 at 9:36pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Manual Transmission Oil
Posted By: Lyle
Subject: Manual Transmission Oil
Date Posted: Dec/06/2017 at 3:13pm
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For a good manual transmission oil I finally found one that meets older vehicle requirements – approx 1989 and prior calling for GL-3 or GL-4 rating. It’s Shell Spirax S4 TXM, there may be others. $30 for 5 liters at TSC in Canada. The 10W30 SAE crankcase viscosity rating is equivalent to a 75W85 SAE gear rating. The GL rating is for gear pressure, GL-5 being what is in use today but it has it’s problems in older gearboxes. - If it states GL-4 and GL-5 it is likely GL-5. - GL-5 additives i.e. sulphur compounds are not yellow metal (brass/bronze) friendly. At the levels in GL-5 they are corrosive to these metals. In older transmissions these are the syncros and possibly some bushings. - GL-5 will also pit older cast gears (believe it’s the phosphorus). - Some GL-5 oil manufacturers state all metal friendly, don’t know what they are adding but GL-5 has twice the additives of GL-4. Substitutes like diesel motor oil are high in detergent that leaves particles in suspension. This is not good for a splash lubrication gearbox. As for differentials the GL-5 rating is fine unless there have yellow metals in them.
Been looking for a while to find something on the shelf that is just GL-4. |
Replies:
Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Dec/06/2017 at 3:31pm
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Good to know. I had to resort to this stuff to meet the Mopar M.S. 9417 requirements for my Neon transaxle. http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/manual/manual-synchromesh-transmission-fluid-5w-30/?code=MTFQT-EA" rel="nofollow - https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/manual/manual-synchromesh-transmission-fluid-5w-30/?code=MTFQT-EA ------------- Roger Gazur 1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler 1970 RWB 4-spd Machine 1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX All project cars. Forum Cockroach |
Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Dec/06/2017 at 11:37pm
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i tried different oils in my rebuilt T96 and then T14. i could not honestly tell the difference between 90 weight and 20W50 engine oil. AMC even recommended straight 30 weight as a choice. in 2017 all good oils so vastly exceed the old ones it almost doesnt matter. 20w-50 is plentiful. ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: Lyle
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 11:28am
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Yes 20w-50 engine oil which would be equivalent in viscosity to 75w-90 is plentiful. It is probably minimum GL-3 rating if you buy a good brand. It does not have the service life (made to be changed more often then a gear oil) and does have detergents that keep particulate in circulation which will over time wear bearings faster. Again your vehicle and your choice, just trying to provide a good off the shelf option that meets or exceeds the original manufacturer specification.
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Posted By: jpnjim
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 12:35pm
Thanks for the recomendations and starting this thread! What do you think about Straight non detergent 30 weight? It wouldn't have the same anti-wear properties of a true gear oil though (like any engine oil) ------------- 71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX some Jeeps and some Fords |
Lyle wrote:Posted By: tomslik
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 3:35pm
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well,fwiw, I run redline shockproof heavy....but I may try light next season ------------- 67 american 290/4speed |
Posted By: Lyle
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 5:23pm
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jpnjim, A straight SAE 30 non detergent is better then a a detergent motor oil. Just If you can buy it from a known supplier. Many "brands" are recycled motor oil and I would not trust a GL or pressure rating unless it states it on the bottle. tomslik, Redline does make good products and states the GL rating but it does not "normally" ship to Canada and it costs 3 to 4 times the Shell product before shipping. Go for it if living in the US.
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Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 9:35pm
oh right -- the TSM likely assumes non-detergent. ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 9:52pm
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Ok I checked with an old time parts store here in town today and they have GL-4 Sta-Lube on the shelf so it is still available from Sta-lube. It meets Gl4 but does not meet Gl5. Joe ------------- Happiness is making something out of nothing. |
Posted By: 990V8
Date Posted: Dec/09/2017 at 5:12pm
How does that work? Interesting point about the detergents. Some people prefer engine oil because they think it flows more readily into the bearings when cold. Never heard any thoughts about detergents. Seems to me a magnetic drain plug would be a good thing. Ivor ------------- 63 Canadian Ambo 990 V8 327 74 LandRover Lightweight V8 SIII Shopping Trolley |
Posted By: Lyle
Date Posted: Dec/09/2017 at 9:57pm
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Here is a link to a chart but the page does not give all the information on oil formulations and reasons for the engineering behind them: https://www.sinopeclubricants.com/Articles.asp?ID=252 A magnet is a good thing, crankcase or gearbox. I should add that some engine oil detergents collect moisture to reduce acid build up from combustion gas blow by. In engine oil this is good as it is changed frequently. A gearbox does not see these gasses and the detergents can accumulate with the moisture below the oil. Unless the gearbox gets above the temperature for moisture separation it will remain mixed with the detergent. This is not a good lubricant and can corrode gearbox components.
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Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Dec/10/2017 at 10:30pm
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i think we are all over-analyzing this, but though i fear adding to it, a transmission is nothing like and engine. the oil doesnt get stressed much at all, there's no combustion byproducts to condense, etc. i've never measured it (the only way to really know) but in my experience i've never felt a truly hot manual transmission. hot would be > 250F, and modest motor oils are good for far more than that. all that said, after messing with motor oils i ended up with plain old 85w90 or whatever it was. did not have the bronze-eating crud, i forget the brand. prolly changing trans fluid every decade, even with the wrong oil, would be overkill. even the bronze-eating phosphorous takes a long time to act. the last two transmissions i built i stuck a piece of super-magnet just below the trough that collects oil thrown off the rotating gears, so oil flows past it, to catch any steel dust or whatever. only had one of them apart after, it had some inky black but it was completely un-feelable. another piece in the hole in th end of the drain plug. on both nothing on it other than the india ink like black. ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: Bandana
Date Posted: Dec/20/2017 at 3:18pm
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Just drained the oil from my 1970 T10 to change it. It was about an inch or better below the fill hole. Had a magnetic bottom plug that had a good bit of fine particles on it but I have no idea how long the plug or fluid was in the transmission. I found this thread looking for oil specs as my TM doesn't seem to list oil specs for the manual transmissions or capacities. Reading through the thread I'm a bit confused on what to use?? 75w-85, 85w-90 - GL3 or 4? Sounds like motor oil is not best as one would expect. Could anyone summarize the recommended oil, what is the capacity empty and I assume AMC wants the fluid up to the fill hole? |
Posted By: 6768rogues
Date Posted: Dec/20/2017 at 4:00pm
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Back when Ramblers were nearly new, we just topped off the transmissions and differentials with regular old 90 weight gear oil or whatever it was and never changed the oil for the life of the car. ------------- Content intended for mature audiences. If you experience nausea or diarrhea, stop reading and seek medical attention. Located usually near Rochester, NY and sometimes central FL. |
Posted By: Bandana
Date Posted: Dec/21/2017 at 9:19am
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Yea, I know. Years ago I never gave much thought to all of the various technicalities of oil composition, viscosity, additives etc., either. Of course there wasn't much variation to choose from back then either - and the cars and their components also didn't last as long. Lubrication science has come a long ways since the 60s and if there is an edge to a particular lube I'd just as soon benefit from it. I did find the capacity of the T-10 to be 1.5 qts. Does this sound about right? |
Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Dec/21/2017 at 9:44am
Yup - you are correct unless talking differentials and then the hypoid gears demand extreme pressure lubes and Do be sure to use a product that doesn't eat at the yellow metals (it's not the cast gears as previously stated - it's the yellow metal to beware of) Temperatures are far lower, you don't have the cam-to-lifter pressures, and you don't have combustion by-products and don't need to suspend the contaminants so they get filtered. I did a deep search and study a few years back when working with the T5 transmissions - and the best lube I have found is synchromesh lube - I still have a bottle or two. It meets the final AMC specs - which MOPAR actually carried forward and used for years. I spoke with shops that specialized in performance transmissions and T5s and so on and got their takes plus read tech docs, dug into the specs that AMC settled on in the 1980s as well. I spent countless hours, actually it turned into days worth of digging. After switching to fluid that met the final AMC specs and matched their own "fish oil" lube, my own T5 started shifting like a dream, is quiet, and works great in cold as well as hot weather. I'll never again use engine oils after looking up the specs and digging through my old college papers. Even AMC stopped recommending engine oil and ATF in later years -the TSMs changed frequently until they came up with their own spec and lube. Again, it's the yellow metal of the synchronizers, not the cast gears, to worry about. I posted multiple posts on this very topic a few years back and included part numbers, brands, etc. but it keeps getting "rehashed" as if new. (one must also be careful about what one goes by online since anyone can post their own opinions of what's right and create a page that gets copied repeated and becomes a de facto standard because it gets plagiarized and copied enough times. Some battery pages are great examples of that - the same bad information get copied and even ends up on business sites!) -------------  http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |
Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Dec/23/2017 at 11:19am
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