can a t-14 trans replace a t-96
Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Transmission & Drivetrain
Forum Description: If it's between the engine and wheels, it goes here
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91186
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Topic: can a t-14 trans replace a t-96
Posted By: its RJ
Subject: can a t-14 trans replace a t-96
Date Posted: Dec/02/2017 at 4:25pm
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hi .. could you use a t-14 transmission to replace the t-96 in a 1969 rambler 220 with a 199 motor .. if so , would it be a direct replacement or would things like driveshaft length / shift linkage / input shaft length be different .. thanks
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Replies:
Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Dec/02/2017 at 5:57pm
| Look at Matt's old ramblers... |
Posted By: raysinvegas
Date Posted: Dec/04/2017 at 7:47am
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They are pretty different. I tried this exact swap, and gave up. Too difficult. ------------- Andy Ray 64 440H 64 440 Convertible 68 Javelin SST 343 69 Javelin SST 343 69 SC/Rambler 
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Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Dec/06/2017 at 1:27am
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i have done this precise swap. the T14 bolts into the hole, mates with the existing pilot and clutch no problem. the bolt pattern may, or may not, be the same as your T96. there are at least two T96 bolt patterns. you will definitely need to shorten the driveshaft. but that costs about $125 here in expensive Los Angeles. the speedo cable is different, and worse, in a different location, and it may clunk on the chassis pan. the bad news is, the T14 truly sucks, as far as gearing goes. the gap between first and second is 94%, driving it is like a four-speed but skipping second. the good news is, the T14 is a brick s**thouse compared to the T96. all synchro too. very solid and reliable. more "good" news, lol, i have one here. i rebuilt it, it's very clean and sweet, it came out of my '61 American behind a 195.6 OHV. no leaks, all new innards, has 5000 miles on it, silent and solid. in Los Angeles however. i'll sell ya cheap, but... hmm i think i just did a lousy job of selling. lol. ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Dec/06/2017 at 1:31am
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hey! here's a clean picture of the T14 installed on the T96's bellhousing. the speedo socket is there behind the box of the transmssion. it's got a plug in the hole (i run electric speedos). that is the one i have, it's still that clean. http://www.sensitiveresearch.com/1961-Rambler-Roadster/transmission/T5research/images/T14%20bell.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.sensitiveresearch.com/1961-Rambler-Roadster/transmission/T5research/images/T14%20bell.jpg ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: DaemonForce
Date Posted: Dec/06/2017 at 3:22am
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I've seen this before. Top loaded top shifter, EXTREMELY COMPACT design and HEA-VY. Found a 4WD version in a 73 CJ and at a glance thought it was a T-18. It resembles a T-18 in size until you realize it's some antiquated 3spd but the slender sloping 1-angle shifter gives it away. This is the kind of 3spd you need to study where the floor and ceiling are for each gear before you start driving with it. There's nothing wrong with these internally but they're a pain to use in traffic and anywhere that isn't flat pavement. Why would American ever assign these to Jeeps? You can't crawl with it and good luck towing. Just get the SM420 and be done with it. The inline 6 is annoying enough at low displacement but it's even worse when it's hunting for a gear that isn't there. ------------- 1971 Javelin SST American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Dec/06/2017 at 6:27am
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The big problem with a trans swap for the T-96 is that it was only used on the small six bell (41-71 models). There are only a few trannys that will fit directly, and all are old. Modern Driveline made a run of adapters to fit a Mustang V-6 T-5, but not sure if they have any or still make them. It's a CNC program for them, so they CAN make more, but might be costly if they have to run a single adapter. I think they farm the CNC stuff out. You'd still have to have a driveshaft made and figure out the speedo. Note that the 58-63 American drives the speedo in the opposite direction as the 64+. This corresponds to the location of the drive gear hole. If the drive gear is below the output shaft it turns one way, on top of the shaft turns the opposite. You can swap output housings on early and late transmissions to swap, but has to be like model trannys (T-96 for T-96, M-3x and M4x aluminum autos). 58-63 American, 56-62 big cars have a different trans to bell bolt pattern than 64 American, 63 and later big cars. Corresponds to four point/three point engine mounting. ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Dec/06/2017 at 7:55pm
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DaemonForce wrote:Posted By: DaemonForce
Date Posted: Dec/06/2017 at 8:44pm
Well, since I'm only familiar with trucks, the CJ is technically a truck and even my Eagle is classed as a light truck...Just chiming in with familiarity on the 4WD side. If you read the above about crawling and towing, you'd get the idea that my vehicles do actual work rather than simple transportation. For this reason I think the 199 would be a dog with a T-14. Maybe that's why the CJ that I found with one had a 304 under the hood. This was somehow factory issued. Since time has caught up with all of us, the T-14 is a poor choice all around for a swap. T-15 and T-150 are better choices. The big problem probably isn't the engine but the bell pattern and transmission availability. I would stick with the T-96 until better options emerge but from what I see there aren't any.  ------------- 1971 Javelin SST American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Dec/06/2017 at 11:34pm
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oh wait! NOT A JEEP/TRUCK T14! There is an AMC delivered, AMC outfit, T14 trans with traditional side shifter. take a look at the pic in my post. that's an AMC passenger car transmission. 68 Rebel i think. sorry i didn't state this clearly earlier. if you want that thing in the pic, $100 it's yours. its spotless and like-new. ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: DaemonForce
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 3:18am
It's so weird that you even have this. The tail housing looks different than what I found, of course but so does that bell. I'm guessing it's because this was a version with the starter on the driver side? Did they change the bells for this transmission JUST because of the starter? ------------- 1971 Javelin SST American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 7:32am
| I have a T14 that has the side shifter. It came out of a 1972 Gremlin with the V8. |
Posted By: 6768rogues
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 6:26pm
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I am not sure what transmission came out of my 66 American 232 car, but I think I can find it. You can have it if you want to pick it up.
------------- Content intended for mature audiences. If you experience nausea or diarrhea, stop reading and seek medical attention. Located usually near Rochester, NY and sometimes central FL. |
Posted By: tyrodtom
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 6:28pm
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The truck T-14 has a different gear ratios than the T-14 made for the car. The car T-14 has 2.64 1st gear and 1.61 2nd, that's not much different from a 69 T-96, 2.61 1st and 1.63 2nd. I had a t-14 in my 69 American with a 232, it didn't seem to me to have any wide gap between the gears. ------------- 66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va. |
Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 9:26pm
that's a 68? i think AMC passenger car T14, i think i got from pacerman (Joe). the bellhousing is from a 1963 Rambler American. so the starter is on the drivers side. ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 9:33pm
i admit i did google the ratios, but it was in fact a bear to drive. the car had a T96 with OD and a 3.77 (i think?) "big nut" axle. i swapped in the T14 and a Mustang 2.73 axle. top gear was a good match. but the engine didn't have the torque to pull 2nd for higher RPM than was reasonable. the T96+OD and that axle was a great setup for that engine and car. the T5 is of course much better. but now you;'ve got me curious, i will go out and put it in 2nd and turn shafts and figure out what gears are in there. i'm wrong all the time. ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: tyrodtom
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 10:00pm
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I think the truck T-14 has a over 3.00 1st, or like 3.10, but the same 1.61 2nd gear. That would be a pretty big gap between 1st and 2nd. If you had a T-96 with the twin-stick OD, it had different 2nd gear ratios than the normal T-96. My T-14 had a overdrive, a special order car, I've never seen, or heard of another like it. I'm just assuming it's gear ratois was the same as the other car T-14s. A website devoted to Borg Warner OD's states BW never put their OD on a full sychro 3 speed, but I had a sycho 1st gear, and it was a T-14, because I had it out of the car once in that 18 years to replace the clutch. I did it myself, I saw the T-14 markings on the transmission, I just don't remember the particular model # of the T-14. I drove it for 18 years, if it did have a wide gap between 1st and 2nd, I either never noticed, or got used to it. ------------- 66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va. |
Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 10:45pm
| On my T14, I felt 1st gear was too high, and 2nd was too low. This was in my 1972 Gremlin. My 1974 Gremlin also has A T14. But the 74 has 2.73 gears whereas the 72 has 3.54s... I guess the 2.73s make a somewhat difference... |
Posted By: LJF-Rambler
Date Posted: Mar/16/2023 at 5:32am
| Hi, easy swap, just did it. The T-14 is twice the tranny the T-96 ever hoped to be. My T-14 came from 1971 Hornet. You will need a longer drive shaft made as the length of tail housing is actually shorter. Also MAKE SURE YOU HAVE a shallow bell housing to accept the 6.5” T-14 input shaft. Pilot, clutch plate, splines are the same. The speedo drive gear is different. Original was 7 tooth, the T-14 was 8 tooth. Got a 20 tooth “driven gear” and that will suffice for a 3:08 or 3:15 rear end. Use a 23 tooth for a 3:54 rear end. My little American has a floor shift……. Getting the original column shift rods to function properly may be a moderate challenge. Drove the car for the first time yesterday and WOW !!! I can shift into first without coming to a complete stop!!! 👍 message me if you need more details……. |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Mar/16/2023 at 6:01am
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Wow, old thread! Still good info -- I went back and read through it. One point -- the OD trannys all had the same ratios as the non-OD trannys. The one exception (I know of) being the Twin-Stick three speed, which had a big gap between 2nd and 3rd so 2nd could effectively be used with OD -- withoutthe gap 2+OD is about the same as 3rd). OD models usually have a lower rear axle ratio then non-OD. In effect you get a lower first gear AND a slightly higher high gear (3rd + OD). ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: LJF-Rambler
Date Posted: Mar/16/2023 at 6:47am
| Thanks Frank your input is always valuable. When I was a kid my Uncle Roger bought a new 1957 Rebel. The Rebel was 3 on the tree with O.D. ……… He raced everything in town and only his buddy with a J-2 Olds was his closest rival. Roger would wind up that 327 in first, then to second, then second overdrive and finally to third. By then the J-2 was closing in….. but the 1/4 mile stretch on South 7th Ave. in Kenosha (not far from downtown) was completed. Those were the days my friend !!! |