LED headlights 5.75 inch
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Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Electrical - non engine
Forum Description: Charging systems, lights, non-ignition system, it goes here.
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91104
Printed Date: Apr/19/2024 at 11:13am
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Topic: LED headlights 5.75 inch
Posted By: 990V8
Subject: LED headlights 5.75 inch
Date Posted: Nov/28/2017 at 5:13pm
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Despite an H4 conversion with a pair of these super bright xenon bulbs, the dipped heads in my Ambo are less than great. Could fit relays, might help, I saw the topic about that. I notice plenty of retrofit 7" LED headlamps in the Land Rover mags, the whole unit not just the bulbs which are useless and a menace, but never thought to find any for the Ambo. However, there seem to be a variety of motorbike units in 5.75", how about these? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Daymaker-Projector-Headlight-Headlamp-12-30V/dp/B019ETNZD6" rel="nofollow - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Daymaker-Projector-Headlight-Headlamp-12-30V/dp/B019ETNZD6 And not even expensive. Any bikers here? What do we think? Will they fit? Ivor ------------- 63 Canadian Ambo 990 V8 327 74 LandRover Lightweight V8 SIII Shopping Trolley |
Replies:
Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Nov/28/2017 at 5:41pm
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Looks like it may be better than my 09 Honda Coupe's projector beams. Being that they have multiple projector lenses. Many who have updated to HID on such cars don't get much improvement because Honda and most manufactures use a beam cutoff difusor of some sort to make the headlight less effective than a Halogen H4. If you are familiar with military beams having slits to only light up across the horizontal, that is what today's projector beams are like. My 2000 Solar a out shines my 09 Accord projectors, mostly because there is no cutoff beam limiter in non projector beams. To get better vissabilty with projectors, you must angle them beyond the proper aiming settings and create a driving issue with others. IMO it is not about what has the brightest bulb, it is all about useful light. In fact any bulb brighter than what is regulated under US standards is considered off road. Many aftermarket bulbs don't follow with US or UK guidelines, if in areas where all aspects of safety are checked, the light output and color are scrutinised when the vehical is inspected. Funny thing about headlights... or lights in general. On the way home after Thanksgiving, a truck stopped behind us when at a signal light. He had his brights on (HID to boot), and were just above trunk level to me as I sat in the driver seat. The driver was completely un aware that he lit up our interior, and could see my face through my rear view mirror. If you can't notice that, what good is it to have bright as #$@& head lights? ------------- 71 Javelin SST body 390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
Posted By: DaemonForce
Date Posted: Nov/28/2017 at 6:21pm
Every time I see the word diffuser in a headlamp discussion I think of those dinky little B.O. switches on CJs.  The projectors should help quite a bit but seriously check your connections for VOLTAGE DROPS. I had this problem on my Eagle before tearing through the entire harness to update everything. I was getting no more than 11.4v at the brights when it should have been getting the 14v total. If you're running lamps at lower than their rated voltages, yeah they're going to look dim. If you're getting the kind of voltage drops I did, don't go to bigger gauge wire hoping for the best, use a relay. To further offset this kind of problem I went with an LED kit for the Eagle's low beams and will eventually go HID/Projectors for brights and foggers. The Javelin is getting HIDs. Right now my attention needs to go to illuminating the Eagle engine bay and drivetrain with diagnostic lamps and the wheel wells need rock lights like right now. ------------- 1971 Javelin SST American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Nov/28/2017 at 10:18pm
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I did the headlight relay upgrade a couple of years back. I found I was dropping enough voltage it was only about 11 volts feeding the headlamps. http://theamcforum.com/forum/eagle-heatlight-upgrade-relays_topic67272_post610194.html#610194" rel="nofollow - http://theamcforum.com/forum/eagle-heatlight-upgrade-relays_topic67272_post610194.html#610194 One thing I discovered is that now my lights are so bright even after properly aiming them I get people thinking I have the brights on and "flash" me with their lights. sorry, buddy, they are simply operating PROPERLY now at full luminosity. Note that with the sort of voltage drop I had with the factory wiring that was decades old and almost 200,000 miles old, I was running at LESS THAN HALF light output!!  It's amazing how bright they are now and they don't blind people like those crazy light-house lamps people seem to insist on using. LED is fine, but get legal lights, don't kill someone with your desire to light up NYC with your car, and aim them. LED don't degrade over time as badly, keep their color, and take a lot less power to run.  -------------  http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |
Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Nov/28/2017 at 11:07pm
wow! i never did the math. power is voltage squared divided by resistance... yup! there you go. long ago my '63 Classic 550 Cross Country had the typical burned up headlamp switch and crappy old headlamp wiring, and thinking i'd upgrade, installed Cibie Z-Beams. hmm not much improvement? ... measured the voltage *at the lamp* and it was under 12! in that car, i put the relays up near the driver side headlamps, out of the path of road water and dirt, wired the headlamp power to the coils and ran a new, fat hot wire to the relays. instant and permanent improvement. you didn't mention the further advantage that having the headlamp switch powering relays and not headlamps means that headlamp contact wear no longer matters; the relays are low-power and less fussy to boot. (btw, the cleanliness of your chassis and under-hood is fairly awe inspiring.) ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
billd wrote:Posted By: 990V8
Date Posted: Nov/29/2017 at 3:35am
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Mmm, hadn't realised the radical effect of voltage drop. I'd better attend to the wiring before I buy any more shiny toys. Thankyou. Ivor ------------- 63 Canadian Ambo 990 V8 327 74 LandRover Lightweight V8 SIII Shopping Trolley |
Posted By: Pdok
Date Posted: Nov/29/2017 at 7:13am
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Agreed on the relay. Have done that mod on 3 old cars/trucks now, and it noticeably improved brightness from standard headlights on all of them. Separate relays for low and high beams. ------------- 76 Grem X 258/904,4.0 head/MPFI, Comp X250H cam, Hughes springs, Clifford header, serpentine swap. |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/29/2017 at 7:38am
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A couple relays and a little time wiring will be a lot less than $80 a headlight ($59.99 English pounds = $80.39)!! Unless you're paying someone to do the wiring... then it could be a little more With a voltage drop to the LED projector headlights you will probably have more light then the old sealed beams, but still not the max from the LEDs. I looked at LED headlights as an upgrade for my car about 3-4 years ago. They were a bit higher then, around $100 each. Settled for a removable bulb halogen with a better reflector and polycarbonate lens. I had been running sealed beam halogens, which were fine, I just like the looks of the newer ones better, and price was reasonable... $40 a pair, I think... All four are high/low beams now, and I have them wired to light all four low beams. That causes a bit of an issue, as occasionally someone thinks they are on bright when not and flash me, but only a few. Seems some remember that only two lights were on when dim, four when bright. Not sure if it's a law, but I have never been stopped for it. ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/29/2017 at 7:54am
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Hmm... looked up the US standard for headlights and found this: S6.1.3.5.2 Horizontal headlamp arrangement. S6.1.3.5.2.1 Where multiple headlamps with single light sources are installed in a horizontal orientation the lower beam must be provided by the most outboard headlamp. S6.1.3.5.2.2 Where headlamps with two horizontally oriented light sources are installed the lower beam must be provided by the outboard light source or by all light sources. So I'm probably illegal since I have four headlights and all provide a low beam. S6.1.3.5.2.2 seems to say that there are only two headlights.. but then goes on to say that the "outboard light source" must be low beam, or all. Well, if there are only two, they are both "outboard", are they not?? With modern cars having lights of all kinds of different arrangements, no one really notices my lights are wired illegally though... and I bet there are few (if any!) cops who would know this requirement anyway... http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?node=se49.6.571_1108" rel="nofollow - https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?node=se49.6.571_1108 There is also a law against headlight covers when the headlights are on: "S6.2.3.1 When activated in the steady burning state, headlamps (excluding headlamps mounted on motorcycles) must not have any styling ornament or other feature, such as a translucent cover or grill, in front of the lens." This is often ignored as well... ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Nov/29/2017 at 9:03am
Farna, state laws govern over what is considered mandatory by federal laws. Federal laws are requirements for sale in the states. State laws can make some limits to how far a manufacturer can push the federal limits in the guidelines. Maximum number of functional headlights is 4. Fog lights cannot be on with driving lights or low beams, but some older cars do not override the function. Year specifics are lost by state guidelines so some things fall in the cracks. All four headlights can be on with only lows or only highs, but not in a mix. If you were to mix high on the outer with lows on the inner then you would be illegal. Can be done, just no reason why. My cousin would push California state laws with his truck. Made over 15 laws in reaction to his mods through the years. What he did was go through easy law on vehical requirements and push them to the point of having to correct loop holes. At one time he would weld double frames to allow bumper height and frame clearance to keep his truck from being registered as off road. Lights were one thing he did get In trouble for, he flashed his 8 off road lights when a car with brights would not turn hem off... it just so happens to be a Sheriff. Out came a pair of diagonal cutters. Snip snip, snip snip! ------------- 71 Javelin SST body 390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
Posted By: DaemonForce
Date Posted: Nov/29/2017 at 3:11pm
Majority of laws I've seen have no requirement or restriction on my
lights. If there's any part in Revised Code of Washington that restricts
headlamp use to 4 lamps, I can't find it.
This is terrifying and those ratings look pathetic below 14v but this is accurate. I believe the H4 kit I have in storage is a set of Hellas stamped 12V 100/90W P43T. They look like sealed units but the rubber base looks like a screw on cap. They have a real nice bright white intensity with no discernible blue or yellow. 2900/1900 lumens @12v is pretty good for halogens but because they're not LEDs I can expect them to consume 4x my target power consumption for this circuit.
I have just finished rewiring my driving lights to be the new circuit trigger to my foglamps and need to find this 4 lamp excerpt since my car no longer overrides foggers. It makes sense as a rule of courtesy in town but not where I live. I love the foglamps. They scatter enough light to be more useful and courteous than flashing brights wherever. I get maybe 100ft of straight foward visibility with stock low beams and a 25ft gap up to 150ft of intense straight forward light on high beams. The foggers scatter light in a way that I'm able to see in an unusually broad 135ยบ scope for several feet, which matters to me more than direct straight forward light. The way this area is populated with deer, elk, bears and the occassional bull or cow that stops up the I-5 with everyone in a panic, I put the foggers to better use and it will be much safer than the years of conditioning I've had on junky Ford pickups that have no options and an extremely unsafe limited scope of visibility no matter the beams used. I really should switch this out for a light bar.  ------------- 1971 Javelin SST American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Nov/29/2017 at 3:32pm
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I am forced to have fogs on on the 09 Honda, even though I can turn them on indefinitely by themselves, or through both high and low. Mostly because the factory projector beams are so limited with the upper and lower cutoff along the vertical portions of the beam. Fog lamps make up for what projectors lack, but are no better than a good set of H4 Halogens by themselves. It makes me wonder how much tech is overly recognised as better when introduced, and rarely enough to justify. By the way, in some places fog is so thick, only fogs are used, as any beam higher than the lower part of the bumper is not close enough to show paint or lane delineations. ------------- 71 Javelin SST body 390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Nov/29/2017 at 9:32pm
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lol, my roadster has only low beams. high quality reflectors (brand forgotten) and H4 bulbs and excellent, low drop wiring. aimed correctly. i so rarely use high beams i never wired for them! i'll switch to LEDs when the price drops enough, but there's not a lot of inducement for me. ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: 990V8
Date Posted: Nov/30/2017 at 4:44pm
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Measured the voltage at my headlights. 11.5V with engine running. No good. Started installing an additional fuse box and relays. Going to snip into the existing loom, albeit with awareness that the H4/H1 plugs may be corroded, we'll see. Would like to go to 4-lamp dip, but the additional draw would overwhelm the original 35A alternator. Could put in a bigger alternator. Too easy to erase one by one the vintage characteristics of a classic car.... slippery slope. Ivor ------------- 63 Canadian Ambo 990 V8 327 74 LandRover Lightweight V8 SIII Shopping Trolley |
Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Nov/30/2017 at 4:58pm
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Halogens actually consume less power than oem bulbs, so upgrades should not be detrimental. ------------- 71 Javelin SST body 390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/30/2017 at 8:13pm
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I don't think you will be pulling too much from the 35A alternator with four head lamps on at all times. The high beams on your car run all four and consume more power than four low beams would. I have mine wired so that all four are always one, low and high beam, through relays. I just cut the wires to the headlights near the front and ran those to the relays (trip the relays) and ran new wires to the headlights with new connectors. I'm running a 42A Delco 10SI, not much more than you have, but also have power seats and AC. I've never had a power issue even with everything running... but it's not like I adjust the seats while going down the road with the AC running and stereo blasting! You can only use so much at one time. Sealed beam 9004 halogens are rated 65W high, 45W low, at 12.8V. Modern H4 bulbs are 60/55W... so more low beam light than older, but a little less high beam. So your little 35A alternator is okay with 260W at high beam now... don't see why it wouldn't like 180W at low beam, or 220W... ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: 990V8
Date Posted: Dec/04/2017 at 1:56pm
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Well I also have an electric rotary fuel pump, haven't measured the current but it must be 5A or more. Nevertheless, I'm going for the 4-lamp dip. I put in two relays. Haven't run the engine again but the voltage with no engine is higher now than it was with the engine running, so obviously an improvement there. That encouraged me to try fitting the last of the four halogens, an inner H1, which for some reason wouldn't work when I installed them so I left the one GEC sealed beam in there. It still wouldn't work!! After a lot of fiddling about I found the adaptor that fits on the back of the bulb was bad, and I got it to work out of the car but it still wouldn't work when I installed it. Such a simple thing. Grrrr. So I'm going to junk it, and fit a pair of Cibie H4 that I have in store. I put in the extra wire connector and now I'm awaiting delivery of two bare H4 blocks so I can use the two existing wires plus the new one. No point cutting off perfectly good cable and connectors. Then I'm going to take it somewhere with a flat area and a wall where I cam align the beams. The Gubmt test just ensures they're not too high, and I'm sure they're far from where they should be. Onward. Ivor ------------- 63 Canadian Ambo 990 V8 327 74 LandRover Lightweight V8 SIII Shopping Trolley |
Posted By: 990V8
Date Posted: Dec/09/2017 at 4:47am
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Mission accomplished. Nearly. Now, British cars for the most part, the wiring to the headlights runs to one side and then across the front of the car to the other. So, when I went to run a cable across to power the inner left dip, I was somewhat disconsterned to realise that there is a separate loom to the left heads, running from the back of the engine bay. You can guess... I'd cut into the right-hand loom, used that to power the relays, connected the relays to the right loom.... so now I have the right heads powered by the relays, and the left heads - other than the dip of the left inner - still running via the original circuit. Duh. Anyway, I have a four-lamp dip. In half an hour's time we'll be going out, shouldn't as they were gritting last night but anyway, and this evening we'll by lit up by our new lights for the return journey. Ivor ------------- 63 Canadian Ambo 990 V8 327 74 LandRover Lightweight V8 SIII Shopping Trolley |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Dec/09/2017 at 12:30pm
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In your case I'd just run the wiring the way most Brit cars are run and abandon the left hand original wiring. Then you don't need another pair of relays. I wired my 63 that way. I don't recall if it had a second set of wires for the left hand side. It's a different year and a six cylinder car, which often had a different wiring loom than V-8s, so it may have been wired from one side from the factory. Did the wiring 3-4 years ago...
------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: Bruce Clarkson
Date Posted: Dec/09/2017 at 9:21pm
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Perhaps I was Lucky. For my 67 Ambassador the headlights were terrible when I got it. Various connections were dirty. While I was at it I replaced all four lamps with halogen sealed beams while I cleaned up the existing connections. With my stock 40 amp alternator and air conditioner running full lights are quite effective. I not only had to mess with the connection at the headlights but also under the dash and at the fuse panel. I also carefully set the aim. I find the lighting comparable to my Merc Marquis. Still, the comments from others about voltage levels to incandescent bulbs are spot on. Whatever fix you do, it's all about getting voltage to the lamps. Bruce Clarkson ------------- Bruce Clarkson |
Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Dec/09/2017 at 9:53pm
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Like I said earlier - once I added the two relays, new wiring and sockets and new lamps - (bulbs) - my headlights put out nice bright near-white light and actually aren't that far off from lighting things up like my 2011 Chevy truck does. I have to keep them aimed as they are so bright now I get flashed if I don't have just the right air in the shocks and the headlights aimed with that specific amount. It was - hahahaha - night and day difference. They went from yellow to much more white and more than double the output. My system regulates at about 14v (the Jeep PDC controls the alternator on the 4.0) and with engine running I was getting around 11 volts at the headlights when accounting for the voltage drop in the ground and feed. I figured in total it was a good three volt drop and that's a lot - and the chart I posted earlier shows it's down to under HALF the output at full voltage - LESS THAN HALF the luminosity - that's a huge drop. I don't feel any need to change 'em now that I've got new, good wires and sockets and the relays. And I live out in the sticks, by the river and reserve areas where the trees come up tot he roads, it's all hills and curves and you must have good lights. The deer work in pairs to get you - one will stand out ahead in the road and distract you while their buddy waits at the edge, hidden by trees and tall grass, just waiting to jump out and attack you. If you aren't lighting up the road AND the side of the road a bit you are doomed in our neighborhood. In fact it's so bad I've nearly been nailed before I even get past the boundary of my own property! New halogen factory type lamps, new sockets, new ground, new feed from relays - it's totally amazing the difference it made. My 73 Javelin will get the same update when I finally get it back on the road. I figure if it's that simple and cheap to get really nice light out of these cars, I'm doing it. the 70 will likely be left alone as I'm trying to keep it all stock and I rarely ever drive it at night. Heck, I rarely ever drive it anyway. ------------- http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |
Posted By: 990V8
Date Posted: Dec/16/2017 at 10:17am
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Another thing that surprised me, was the wiring colours. No tracers. See here //http://www.speedycables.com/greengauges/wiringcolours.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.speedycables.com/greengauges/wiringcolours.html are the UK standard colours for 60s-on classic cars, mostly. See how there's a base colour and a tracer, so you know what every wire does. Or at least, what it did assuming that someone didn't alter the wiring with whatever he had to hand or even wiring stripped out of the house. Never having owned a US car before it hadn't occurred to me that AMC would use white wire for the main beam and also for the sidelights. Or was it for the indicators. Anyway, that they would use solid colour wire for two different purposes. Certainly need to be sure what you're dingdangdoing, before you start snipping away at the loom. And moreover, the same gauge. Just that on the heads, it was doubled up. Even the earths. Why double up the earths? Which reminds me, I never did find where the earths went and clean them up. Might be a bit more voltage lurking there. Ivor ------------- 63 Canadian Ambo 990 V8 327 74 LandRover Lightweight V8 SIII Shopping Trolley |
Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Dec/17/2017 at 3:13am
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oh, i never knew there were agreed upon standards for auto wiring! or is that some british conspiracy? maybe i've got AMC Stockholm Syndrome, because i just assumed the colors were randomly chosen. WHAT AMC SEZ IS TRUTH! knowing AMC, they may have simply had a large quantity of that color wire out in the warehouse. doubled wires?! wow, i hadn't noticed that, but in my case i set the factory wiring aside and ran my own, relays etc. now THAT would be AMC foolish frugality. like using the T96 transmission. at all, ever. ------------- 1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
Posted By: DaemonForce
Date Posted: Dec/17/2017 at 4:15am
Pretty sure there is a load balancing theory in here if not for redundant continuity for chosen body grounds that were poor in the first place. It's reason enough for me to double the ground connections even after I finished rewiring my harness as I prefer to link ALL of the external grounds in the engine bay with a redundant 14AWG black wire and stainless eyeloops. Requires nothing but cutting, stripping and crimping to make it 100% and if there were any problems with the grounds before, there won't be anymore. ------------- 1971 Javelin SST American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Dec/17/2017 at 5:39pm
Do you mean two wires from each lamp to the same earth connection, or an earth wire for each side of lamps? You may wish to check European laws - it's amazing what I've found related to lighting, headlamps, etc. studying the laws of the USA. Europe had some really strong laws related to lighting - I wish the USA had kept up but we were always a bit behind (meaning too many whiners and lobbies here) (On the other hand, we didn't have to deal with Lucas electric components here! LOL) I always figure the expected load, add a tad more for just in case, look up the required gauge wire based on LENGTH and LOAD, then crimp AND solder (you can't possibly crimp like the factory and the solder ensures that simple oxidation won't creep in during your lifetime) I crimp as tight as possible, use good solder, and where it would be helpful, heat-shrink tube. In some cases I use a sealant as well. ------------- http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Dec/17/2017 at 9:11pm
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Different regulations between Europe and US, as Billd mentioned. That's why the Renault Ramblers built in Belgium were only sold in a few European countries, and production only lasted a few years -- regulations and taxes on engine size eventually made it unprofitable. Electricity actually flows from negative to positive -- through the body then back to the battery! Regardless of direction of flow, if one side is smaller than the other current will be limited to what the smaller wire will carry, so if you double (or enlarge) one side, have to do the same to the other. ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Dec/17/2017 at 9:19pm
Now Frank, are you talking the electron theory or hole theory? It could flow either way depending on the theory you subscribe to.  In any case, it's easy to look at it as a chain - it's only as strong as the weakest link or the thinnest wire end to end. But like you say - it's a fact, doesn't matter if you have 000 gauge going in if you only have 18 gauge on the ground or earth side. Or the flip - a 12 gauge ground means nothing if the supply side is only 18 gauge. And on AMC cars, with passing time that 18 gauge factory wire used for ground (earth for Brits) stinks. ------------- http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |