Gremlin Circuit Improvments
Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Electrical - non engine
Forum Description: Charging systems, lights, non-ignition system, it goes here.
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90886
Printed Date: Apr/19/2024 at 9:16pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Gremlin Circuit Improvments
Posted By: pacerman
Subject: Gremlin Circuit Improvments
Date Posted: Nov/16/2017 at 11:19am
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I am tired of flaky turn signals and "iffy" instrument lamps that work some of the time and go dark without warning. I am thinking of replacing the fuse panel as a fairly low effort way to improve the circuits. Glass fuses and old corroded sandwiched panels are probably passe. So I'm looking at the Ron Francis Bare Bonz board and the Classic Technologies board. If anyone has replaced just the panel, not whole circuits, with more modern technology I would appreciate input. The car in question is a 76 Gremlin California car with minimal corrosion but a couple of flaky circuits. Joe ------------- Happiness is making something out of nothing. |
Replies:
Posted By: Fluffy73
Date Posted: Nov/16/2017 at 6:35pm
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Why reinvent the wheel? Have you done any diagnosis to determine if the fuse panel is the problem? Why not just lightly clean the fuse panel and get back to business? I'd be willing to bet the fuse panel is not the problem. ------------- I am genetically incapable of being Politically Correct. |
Posted By: Mopar_guy
Date Posted: Nov/16/2017 at 7:25pm
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Fluffy has a point. Have you tried to remove the panel and get it cleaned up? That's usually not hard on these cars. It can be soaked in vinegar for a couple of days to remove light corrosion. This way you'll know if that's causing you the trouble or not. How about the bulkhead connector? Have you pulled it apart and inspected for corrosion? In my experience, if the car was near the coast for a number of years, any connection or ground is suspicious of corrosion. I put a Ron Francis Express panel in my Javelin last winter because I needed more circuits and it's quite a job. I'd be doing some more investigating before making such a jump and possibly still have the problems. -------------  " http://theamcforum.com/forum/hemilina_topic95889.html" rel="nofollow - Hemilina " My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin |
Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Nov/16/2017 at 9:09pm
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I have done it all, except for soaking any of the panels in vinegar or anything else. Grounds were cleaned. Connections cleaned and checked. I made separate ground wires for the tail light fixtures. The instrument cluster has Been in and out of the dash so many times I could do it in my sleep. The car is forty one years old. The new fuse panels I am considering use the newer type fuses and they already have relays on board for the headlights and horn and more, depending on which one I would choose. I posted because I wanted feedback from anyone who has done this but I do appreciate your comments. I do like original cars but intermittent electrical glitches drive me nuts and besides they are unsafe. Joe ------------- Happiness is making something out of nothing. |
Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Nov/16/2017 at 10:04pm
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I have seen those so-called "sealed terminals" that are factory crimped actually corrode where the wire meets the terminal. I know - some will say "IMPOSSIBLE!" but given time and the right conditions no, it's not impossible. I've seen corrosion follow wires up the insulation if conditions are right. What I've started doing is cleaning the contact surfaces on things like fuse panels, space connectors, etc. and plating them. Headlight switch breakers get weak with age and heat, similar things can happen to wiper circuits. I had really funky wipers until I swapped to a NOS wiper motor and redid my own fuse panel in the baby Eagle. No more funky wipers. They work, and will work for hours if needed. The problem is that you can't see the oxide film that forms and causes issues - and like my Eagle headlights, it can add up over all the connections where, again in my case, the headlights were running on under 11 volts and that's with the engine running. A bit here, a bit there, it added up to multiple volts being dropped over the entire circuit. Two tenths at this connection, five tenths here, three more there and now you have dropped a full volt. I swapped fuse panels and used a like-new one from a parts car.......  Be sure to mark things and if you can "one step at a time"  Oh what fun...........  -------------  http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |
Posted By: Kensey
Date Posted: Nov/17/2017 at 9:24am
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Check to make sure your alternator is putting out the proper volts. ------------- Gremmy Power!!! |
Posted By: Pdok
Date Posted: Nov/17/2017 at 12:29pm
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I had a couple of random glitches on my 76 Grem. Had to replace the fuse panel to fix it. The circuit board itself had burned through inside the layers somewhere and would intermittently ground itself and blow a fuse. Couldn't see it from either front or back side. I got a replacement panel from one of the AMC parts houses, not APD but can't remember. Maybe Galvan's or Kennedy, it's been too long. If you've seen and tested both ends of every wire, then I can understand taking the "nuke it from orbit" approach. If you have any inkling that MPFI is in your future, then I think that should factor into your plans, since a lot of wiring harness work is already required for that. If not, then what you're planning is really just a lot of labor and some expense, but straightforward nonetheless. Just don't underestimate how a tiny issue can make itself look like a massive problem! ------------- 76 Grem X 258/904,4.0 head/MPFI, Comp X250H cam, Hughes springs, Clifford header, serpentine swap. |
Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Nov/17/2017 at 6:09pm
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Yeah I know it can be a spaghetti factory when you are rewiring a car. I was prepared for that if need be. I tried one more time today, working with the fuse panel. My turn signals weren't working and then I tampered with the panel and the gauges didn't work. So I pulled all the fuses, cleaned them with fine sandpaper and put OxGard on the ends. Checked the clips and made sure they were secure. I pulled the main plug and cleaned all the male contacts with fine sandpaper and used the OxGard again. It is made for aluminum wiring connections. Presto. Everything works. I'm good for now. Thanks for all the comments. Those modern fuse panels are still attractive though because in part they have some relays on board. Joe
------------- Happiness is making something out of nothing. |
Posted By: 73hornut
Date Posted: Nov/17/2017 at 9:29pm
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Don't leave out the dimmer switch, which is on the floor and probably slightly rusty and moderately corroded.
------------- 71 Javelin 74 Gremlin 79 Spirit AMX Rogue Valley Rumblers Like Us on FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/1602825606650796" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1602825606650796 |
Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Nov/18/2017 at 8:48am
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Hey great; glad to hear you got it going good again. At least the AMC electrical systems have their fuse box inside the cabin, not in the engine compartment, where all the metal connectors are much more susceptible to moisture induced corrosion. Just for the record, AMC was first automaker to use a printed circuit board for the instrument cluster which was an act of true leadership in world automotive history. And at least you don't have vacuum operated door locks or battery acid vapors torturing the electrical connectors underneath for the electronically controlled automatic transmission! Put into perspective, hey; it's a Pacer and you've got a very well engineered electrical system which is one more reason why you have an excellent car! ------------- 443 XRV8 Gremlin YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=2DmFOKRuzUc XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/ |
Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Nov/18/2017 at 10:49am
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Amc the first? When do you believe they introduced it? My memories of working on early Ramblers was this - 1963 for printed circuits while Plymouth/Dodge and Oldsmobile had them at least 1 or 2 years prior. So I looked in my old wiring diagrams - and the first indication of Rambler having a printed circuit was 1963. The others - I didn't go WAY back but indeed did find they had printed circuits before AMC did. Fuse panel location, I will argue your logic on that - in later years the fuses were moved AWAY from where AMC had them - why? WATER/moisture induced corrosion and oxidation. I have replaced countless fuse panels on AMC and the reason is always water damage. Windshield leaks accounted for a number of them, including my OWN cars - water down the firewall inside and onto the fuse panel. Further, it's next to the dimmer and parking brake in pre-1980 cars and in our climate, snow, rain, SALT tracked into the car from feet, etc. all led to damage. Many had fuses inside but AWAY from the driver's feet, and some had them on the right side. Grand Cherokee and a few others had fuses in the area of the glove box (FAR more convenient and cleaner and dryer) where major fuses and relays were under the hood. There really isn't a water problem under most hoods - not in the cars I've owned. The only real problem was when electrical circuits were closer to the early batteries and then off-gassing caused troubles within a few inches of the battery. With experience in auto electric dating back to the 1970s and having worked on cars dating all the way back into the 1920s, I have to say one of the worst places was where AMC had them. Especially if the windshield leaked or you lived in Iowa with wet weather and salty roads. I moved as much as I could of my car to the PDC........... under the hood, of my Eagle. ------------- http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |
Posted By: SCRAGTOP
Date Posted: Nov/23/2017 at 7:31pm
| Your culprit for the dash lights going out randomly is the light switch. Get a NEW one... |
Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Nov/23/2017 at 7:49pm
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That actually is the most likely culprit. The lights for the dash, etc, go through an external switch/rheostat and that does frequently cause the lights to blink out and in, etc. It is exposed to dust, dirt, the environment behind the dash and is a common issue with dash lights. ------------- http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/29/2017 at 8:13am
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I've replaced a motorcycle fuse panel with a little six circuit blade fuse panel. I added a relay to power the fuse panel for good measure! The problem I had was apparently vibration. It left me stranded a couple times (about a year apart) because the wire inside the fuse had come loose from the end inside. Look at the fuses, all look good, so suspect something else. Finally check each fuse when trouble shooting... there it is!! The new blade fuses won't break inside like that. I keep thinking I'm going to do the same to my 63 Classic. The old Ramblers have a little 6-8 circuit panel, and Bussman sells them in 4/6/8/10/12 circuit models. Most auto parts stores carry the six fuse type, have to order the others. Luckily my bike only needed 4-5. I have a secondary panel in my Rambler now to power accessories, run through a relay. I use a switch connection on the original panel to power the relay. ------------- Frank Swygert |