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Weak-Super Slow Vacuum Wipers on a 68 Rebel 550

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Category: The Garage
Forum Name: AMC 6 Cylinder Engine Repair and Modifications
Forum Description: AMC-made I-6 engine mechanical, ignition and fuel from basic repair to high-perf modifications
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90743
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Topic: Weak-Super Slow Vacuum Wipers on a 68 Rebel 550
Posted By: TigreContento
Subject: Weak-Super Slow Vacuum Wipers on a 68 Rebel 550
Date Posted: Nov/09/2017 at 12:41pm
Hello, this is my official first post/request for help.. 
I am looking for help from someone who has gone through something similar and has solved it. BTW I am a rookie in mechanics so I only do it for a hobby now that I have my first AMC REBEL. Well, my windshield wipers do not work, I started with removing the hood and removing the engine with the system of arms by a tutorial that I saw here, when I removed the engine I discovered that in addition to being full of dirt, I manually moved with difficulty what made me deduce that it lacked lubrication, in addition the air hose that fed it was without clamp and slightly broken or with cracks in the tip of the hose then I assumed that it did not get enough air, I also discovered that the pump has another hole below where the seem to be fed with air (I do not know I could not find references or tutorials about what is that hole). Finally, disarm the pump (it's just some 6 or 8 strange head screws)
I discovered that I had old automotive grease like old poop, so I decided to clean it with carburetor cleaner, the whole pump I cleaned it and before assembling it I lubricated it with industrial sewing machine oil in all the parts that made contact and put it together again. I tried to start the car engine without the hose and it would not start, I assumed that I should connect it to let the air flow then I connected it with the old hose that I had and so I started the car, to my pleasant surprise the windshield wiper motor moved slowly in One way and there stopped, then I moved the small plastic piece that makes it activate when you pull the button "wipers" by means of a cable similar to the accelerator and the lever of the motor moved to the other side also with a slow movement and I discovered that when moving the "activating" plastic piece moved to one side and another, I hear how the air enters but moves very slowly.

When investigating more I have detected that under the gasoline pump leaves an oil stain on the ground, just below and I read that a damage to the diaphragm of the gasoline pump is detected when it leaves a gasoline or oil stain on the floor, in addition to air leaks or compression, I have also detected that the car smells bad combustión and accelerating while running (2nd or 3rd speed) makes small jerks and when I slow down, small farts are heard by the muffler, then I have a great doubt how to solve this.

If the diaphragm of the pump is bad, it will generate a lack of air through the hose towards the wiper pump, which will not allow them to work properly. Or just that the hose is slightly weak or broken in the mouth and is not doing its proper function or I need to connect another hose through the bottom hole of the wiper pump and frankly I do not know where I can get it from, I read that I hope you can receive your advice and solve this little detail, Thanks for reading

I would like to post pictures but sincerely i just don´t know how.

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Replies:
Posted By: TigreContento
Date Posted: Nov/09/2017 at 1:22pm
By the way, this is my reference: http://www.mattsoldcars.com/RestoreAmerican/vacuum_wiper_motor.shtml


Posted By: Midnight Rambler
Date Posted: Nov/09/2017 at 1:41pm
Sounds like you need to rebuild or replace your fuel pump. It's leaking oil and not producing enough vacuum (so there's also an air leak).  Your wipers run on vacuum from the fuel pump..

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'66 American 440 Convertible 290/M-40/AMC 20 3.15/PS/PB
'04 Jeep Wrangler X Rocky Mountain Edition 4.0 5sp


Posted By: TigreContento
Date Posted: Nov/09/2017 at 6:24pm
Yep, i think so, Confusedwell i hope if i change the pump everything changes, my question is how the car still runs if the fuel pump is dead. Dead


Posted By: TigreContento
Date Posted: Nov/09/2017 at 6:50pm
Finally, i discover it how to post pics, well, this is the fuel pump i think is dead Dead i change the hose and usa a clamp for the vacuum wiper but still not working at all.
The car  start and runs almost without problems but it feels like it has a vacuum leak with poor fuel air mix. 

https://ibb.co/dCfPvw -
https://ibb.co/hoVeTG -
https://ibb.cosVPvw -
https://ibb.co/iQxhhb -
https://ibb.co/iYRxFw -


Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Nov/09/2017 at 11:22pm
welcome, there;s a lot of knowledge in this place. if you pick at it, section by section, you can make that rebel reliable, but don't be surprised if it needs a new erverything...

first, you should find a copy of the Technical Service Manual for your car. NOT a Haynes or aftermarket, but a real AMC Factory Technical Service Manual (a copy is fine). it is essential.

i assume that's oil in the photo making that pump wet and not gasoline.

that pump needs replacing or a full rebuild. as does the wiper motor. in my personal experience the cost of the rebuild kit is not much savings over simply paying someone else to do it. Peter Stathes does it, if you pay him you're employing a fellow AMCer too. 

buy all new hoses -- all of them, everywhere in the car, eventually, but certainly everyone you come across, like these. new gasoline eats old rubber. get the right size hoses too, that one on there with the really big finger clamp is the wrong size (too small).

40 years old is waaaaaay past every wear component's design life. 



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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: vinny
Date Posted: Nov/10/2017 at 11:13am
The vacuum lines don't need clamps as I recall. I think the vacuum wiper system with fuel pump assist works as good and just as reliable as electric.

I rebuilt my wiper motor because the leather seal had blown out on one side. The wipers would go up but not come back down. That was more than 30 years ago. Recently I heard of someone replacing the leather with silicone material but time will tell with that repair.

So far I have had no trouble with fuel pumps but yours definitely needs attention.


Posted By: TigreContento
Date Posted: Nov/10/2017 at 1:58pm
Thank you Vinny, yes, the fuel pump is the problem #1 to solve, do you guys know if this fuel pump will fit on the rebel? The new one. The other pic is the original. 

https://ibb.co/jKYtqw -
https://imgbb.com/ -


Posted By: Raccoonman
Date Posted: Nov/10/2017 at 2:15pm
the newer pump will fit fine but doesn't provide the vacuum for the wiper motor. You can tap vacuum from the intake but (and this is a big BUT) the wiper motor will not operate as well DEPENDING on the engine operating. I.E., under partial throttle (idling, coasting, steady speed, etc) they'll work fine but under acceleration (a low intake vacuum situation) they can and will slow or stop UNTIL the vacuum returns as you ease off the throttle. Having been a Falcon owner for many years, I'm very familiar with this "quirk" and learned how to adapt to it. Vacuum wipers are fine as far as I'm concerned; they were the first "intermittent" and infinitely variable speed wipers!


Posted By: Midnight Rambler
Date Posted: Nov/10/2017 at 2:38pm
Kennedy American will probably have that fuel pump and might have rebuild items.

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'66 American 440 Convertible 290/M-40/AMC 20 3.15/PS/PB
'04 Jeep Wrangler X Rocky Mountain Edition 4.0 5sp


Posted By: TigreContento
Date Posted: Nov/10/2017 at 2:54pm
Amazing Racoon!!, i was thinking in use this simple fuel pump and adapt-mod a electric wipers in someway.


Posted By: 6768rogues
Date Posted: Nov/10/2017 at 3:31pm
Electric wiper motors run in one direction, vacuum reciprocate, so the mechanism in the cowl is different. With some fabrication, a Jeep motor can be made to work.
The wipers typically use manifold vacuum and when that is low, the fuel pump vacuum section helps out. You can test the wiper motor with straight manifold vacuum. They should work unless the engine is under load, when vacuum is low. You could get a vacuum ball for a  few bucks at a junk yard, use a vacuum check valve, and run them off manifold vacuum. The reserve in the vacuum ball will get you past a short low vacuum time.
Wiper motors tend to have their grease get thick and then the motor gets tired.


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Content intended for mature audiences. If you experience nausea or diarrhea, stop reading and seek medical attention.

Located usually near Rochester, NY and sometimes central FL.


Posted By: TigreContento
Date Posted: Nov/10/2017 at 4:23pm
Your help is so much appreciated dear friend !Clap


Posted By: compubert
Date Posted: Nov/14/2017 at 10:43am
There are electric vacuum pumps too that will provide vacuum for devices that need it... :-)
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l2632.R2.TR12.TRC2.A0.H2.Xelectric+vacu.TRS0&_nkw=electric+vacuum+pump&_sacat=6028



Posted By: TigreContento
Date Posted: Nov/14/2017 at 2:00pm
Hey, i  had no idea that they existed!
Thank you, i will go for it.



Posted By: amxron
Date Posted: Nov/14/2017 at 9:59pm
You have the good rebuildable fuel pump just get it rebuilt!
Same with the wiper motor.

Ron.

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AMXron
Fleet/Jeep Mgr.
Orbit AMC/Jeep
50-1787


Posted By: TigreContento
Date Posted: Nov/15/2017 at 2:27am
Thank you Ron do you have any idea where i can do this?


Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Nov/15/2017 at 10:18pm
peter stathes does a good job...


http://amcrambler.com/" rel="nofollow - http://amcrambler.com/



-------------
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: 2beersmaybe3
Date Posted: Nov/18/2017 at 7:19pm
What I did on my 64 Classic was install a air canister from a newer (late 60's- mid 80's) under the passenger fender, thenbran a line from it to wiper motor. This gives that extra reserve of air for when accelerating. I don't drive the car tho. Just sits in my garage

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1963 Classic 770 Cross Country
1964 Classic 660 4door
1964 Classic 770 2 door sedan


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/27/2017 at 6:31am
A large vacuum storage canister will help, but only works for 30 seconds or so under acceleration. Usually that's enough, especially for a hobby car seldom driven in bad weather. Might not be enough for a daily driver, but many have used one in a DD. You can always link two together. Ford trucks used a half gallon "juice can" type into the 90s, so that's where I'd look. My brother's early 90s F250 has two under the hood. You will still need to have the vac wiper motor rebuilt. Seals get old, you know! With a new wiper motor it should be good for another 20-30 years.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Nov/28/2017 at 12:39pm
When I bought my Rebel, the vacuum wipers wouldn't budge at all.  I took apart the wiper motor (be careful and take lots of pictures so you get everything back together right!) and found the grease inside had hardened into a thick wax.  I wiped away most of it with a paper towel and used a putty knife to remove the rest.  Some had hardened into a plastic-like film and had to be dissolved with a little paint thinner.

Once it was cleaned up, I put fresh mult-purpose grease in and it's been working great ever since.

Like someone else said, that fuel pump does NOT have provisions for a vacuum wiper.  If you want to know if your problem is the pump or the motor, you can hook the motor directly to manifold vacuum and it should work.  If it doesn't, you need to rebuild the motor.

Good luck!


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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: TigreContento
Date Posted: Nov/28/2017 at 2:13pm
Thank you, yes i just disarmed the wiper system and clean it all and removed the old grease, put new and still stuck, also get the manifold hose and still the same, im more in new wiper pump than rebuild the entire 232 because it runs great, no engine cranks noises, starts as a mach...

SleepyParty 

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Building my first REBEL 550


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/29/2017 at 6:14am
Well, you need wipers to drive in bad weather...
Re-greasing the motor sometimes helps, but the seal around the edge of the flapper may be cracked too badly, the return springs inside may be broke, or the valves inside the flapper may be bad. The only thing you can actually fix is the hardened grease, the others are replaced when the motor is rebuilt.

With a little ingenuity you can replace the vac motor with an electric, but unless you have an electric motor from a 67+ Rebel (not sure if a Matador motor will just bolt in, but it probably will -- except Matador Coupe) it takes some work. I've done it on my 63 Classic. Only motor that bolts right in is a 64-66 Classic/Ambo/Marlin motor. Those are old! I had one, it failed after a couple years. Made a mount and modified an 80s Ford truck motor to fit. Sweep isn't exactly right, but it's adequate.


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Frank Swygert



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