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Mini-split AC system

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Topic: Mini-split AC system
Posted By: billd
Subject: Mini-split AC system
Date Posted: Jun/29/2017 at 8:38pm
Tired of book covers and vinyl seats getting mildew on them during our non-winter months, I tried everything from fans to a small dehumidifier, all to no avail. 
This year the heat and humidity have been horrible over a month earlier than normal and my advance age (HAHAHAHA) don't help so it was decided to cross an item off our "wish list - high dollar items" and go for some sort of AC for the shop. I was after de-humidification as much as anything but working under the dash of another SX4 repairing wiring someone had really messed up helped make up my mind. 
No way was I going window air - give up one of the two downstairs windows, and then have to either remove or cover it in winter. Also no way to cutting a big hole for a wall-mount system which is basically a window air in a sleeve installed in a big hole in the wall. 

I'd seen a lot about mini-split systems lately and have experience with heat pumps in our area. The idea of a super-efficient system and a 3" hole up high - very quiet and a ton of automation helped decide. 
Plus - when the temps are above about 20 outside I can run this and leave the LP for when it's cold or when it makes more sense. 

It senses when I have left the area and adjusts the temperature accordingly and on the flip side, senses when I return and ramps back up again. When it detects no human for 20 minutes it ups the AC temp by four degrees or in heat mode it drops the heat temp by eight degrees. It can also be set on a schedule, set to "dry mode" so it mainly just dehumidifies, etc.

(I may even be able to control this from a phone or tablet if I can make it work with my lame router.)

It's so bloody quiet it's hard to tell when it's running!

I saved by running the electric myself. 







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Replies:
Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jun/29/2017 at 8:47pm
Cool beans, no more working in a sweat box for you!



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71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: Ollie
Date Posted: Jun/30/2017 at 7:33am
Wow........
I have been giving a lot of thought to AC in my shop too....

Had thoughts of a big window unit (remote controlled) up at the peak of the roof gable, 10' walls, but this might be for me.

I have a heat pump AC in the house and I say the heat pump is worthless. A extremely cold day for me is low teens, average upper teens. I installed a vent less gas heater.

How many sq ft you dealing with?

Having AMC Fun,
Ollie

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1966 American Convertible -- "The Rambler"..SOLD
1974 Postal Jeep -- "Rapid Delivery"...SOLD
1969 Rambler 220 post car--"Road Warrior"
1989 Jeep Comanche Pioneer, 4.0L, auto, 2wd


Posted By: 6768rogues
Date Posted: Jun/30/2017 at 7:48am
I have had AC in my shop for years. When it gets hot outside, I do stuff inside. It is nice to work out there in the evening without donating blood to the mosquito population.
I have 8 large windows, 4 on the east side and 4 on the west. Each side has a window air conditioner. One does a good job unless I open a door and bring in a car with a hot engine, then the second is needed to catch up.


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Located usually near Rochester, NY and sometimes central FL.


Posted By: S Curry
Date Posted: Jun/30/2017 at 10:02am
Mitsubishi? I installed one like this in my garage about 5 yrs ago. 24X24 spray foam insulated. I have the heat pump option with it and I use it mostly to keep it warm in the winter months. I will run the AC when it gets really humid and the floor is still cold and sweats. Takes about 10 minutes and it is dry. The heat pump works to about -10F then it has a hard time keeping it at 60F. Other than that, it works fantastic and is very efficient and quiet.........

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SC


Posted By: 401MATCOUPE
Date Posted: Jun/30/2017 at 11:13am
Bill D....you will NEVER regret the A/C, it can be a real motivator to work in shop when so hot/humid outside.........I like the features you described about the automation.....

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Ross K. Peterson
68X,GoPac,343,AT,52A(1stCar)
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70 Jav SST,390,AT,BSO
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74MatX,401,AT


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Jun/30/2017 at 11:16am
Originally posted by Ollie Ollie wrote:

Wow........
I have been giving a lot of thought to AC in my shop too....

Had thoughts of a big window unit (remote controlled) up at the peak of the roof gable, 10' walls, but this might be for me.

I have a heat pump AC in the house and I say the heat pump is worthless. A extremely cold day for me is low teens, average upper teens. I installed a vent less gas heater.

How many sq ft you dealing with?

Having AMC Fun,
Ollie


Then you have either a poorly installed heat pump or a unit that has troubles..... for us a mild day is upper teens. Cold is when the high is zero.
We have a Trane in the house and that thing does very well down to about 20 degrees F.  After that if it finds it is running too long or the temperature difference between actual inside temp and thermostat setting is larger than x degrees, it pulls in the aux heat strips. There are three stages if I recall, as far as the aux heat, maybe it's only two.... anyway, it has to be COLD and I mean mid to lower teens before I see that aux show on the stat screen. It's very efficient down to cold temps. 

Anyway, this is a Fujitsu unit in the shop. The specs are much better than other brands. I checked several reviews and comparisons by AC-related organizaions and Fujitsu has better numbers all around. It does a better job than others at extracting heat out of colder air as the other brands BTU ratings fall lower faster as the temperature drops)
But heat isn't really why I got it. I was tired of this old fat body sweating while working up in or under a dash, MILDEW on hard to find books, mildew on vinyl car seats and vinyl seats and covers I have stored (mildew on BOOKS really ticks me off
The humidity out there was a killer. In the spring the floor would actually PUDDLE water - slosh-slosh water not just water beads or droplets. 
So I mostly keep the doors all closed unless it's cool and dry out - for one thing, WASPS, and I mean the sort of wasps that remember me carrying a can of RAID around trying to kill them and they come after me later seeking revenge, I swear! My neighbor says "oh, they won't bother you" as one is chasing me around, and just days after being stung on the arm by one that was ticked because I turned the outside water off. 
So to keep bugs, WASPS and even mice out, doors stay closed, windows have screens but are closed at night because of bugs that can fly right through screens like they are huge doorways for them to get to the light in the shop. 

The main reasoning was humidity, mildew on books and seats, etc., HOT and sweaty working conditions - hey,, this is Iowa and we literally get tropical here to the point of mold growing on the ground and trees rotting - and I guess better for the building over-all. But the other biggy was when it hits 95 or more outside (which it has several times already this year) and the humidity is just about as high, it's hard to blast, powdercoat and even plating sometimes requires specific temperatures. 

The mini-split is far more efficient than even our household Trane system. It's all electronically controlled, they vary fan and compressor almost infinitely and handles that shop very well. Winter it will likely be used in conjunction with the infrared since that heats THINGS and not the air, but that's not why I got it. 

It took only a 20 amp 240 line, which I ran myself. (I used to do maintenance electric and had a license as a maintenance electrician back in the 1990s)
The conduit fittings are weather-tight, I used a proper fused AC disconnect, dedicated circuit/breaker in the box and so on. 

It's rated 18000 BTU. Heating and cooling ratings are different a bit....
The shop building INSIDE is about 29 x 35 (outside is 30 x 36 but the walls measure pretty close to 6" thick so we lose a foot each direction)
The ceiling is 15' high. The inside unit is about 12' high? *(A guess)
He needed a minimum line length of 10 feet so we had to be careful there. 
The height is about right as when you stand in the middle of the shop facing the inside unit the cool air is hitting your face, etc. so the air distribution is very good. It cools the whole shop pretty quickly, removing humidity took a bit longer. 

My neighbor was saying he has no humidity troubles - I looked over at his shop and told him - yeah, but wood breathes..... do you have vapor barrier installed? everything sealed and caulked up tight?
His is a decent building pretty easy to heat, but it does breathe. A steel building with 6" thick walls, insulation, vapor barrier, and an inside steel skin won't breathe so it gets humid in there. 

Don't count out a GOOD heat pump or mini-split. the technology has come a long way. However, be really sure the company that installs it is trained and particular as these are not forgiving at all compared to many other systems. They come pre-charged, etc. and the flares are a bit different on the lines, not as easy to seal according to the installers I spoke with. 

IMO, these are perfect for a shop - only a 3" hole in the wall, mounted up out of the way, VERY quiet, doesn't take up a window, no big hole to seal in bad weather, low energy consumption compared to any other AC type, doubles as heat in the winter, programmable and at least this one I can grab the brackets under the outside unit when it's running and feel no vibration - that's a good thing as vibrations in steel, brackets and buildings is bad. 
The only down-side........ no more excuse to come in and complain to Barbara "it's just too hot and muggy out there to get anything done". HA. (I guess I do have to bring in more MONEY to make it worth having out there....... so that means I have to do more work that generates some sort of cash flow.)

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Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Jun/30/2017 at 11:28am
Originally posted by 401MATCOUPE 401MATCOUPE wrote:

Bill D....you will NEVER regret the A/C, it can be a real motivator to work in shop when so hot/humid outside.........I like the features you described about the automation.....


Ross - you will like the fact that it means I have better luck blasting/cleaning parts Wink

Thanks for the positive comment - it's always hard (at least for this miser) to spring for that sort of money but then you nailed part of it in your comment. I guess I'll call it my retirement gift to myself since Barbara used some of her vacation payout on her Intelliquilter system as her retirement gift to herself (and she's making money with it)

Working with brush plating - nasty chemicals that are slick, acidic, sticky at times, and doing small parts by hand is a pain when it's hot and humid - things also dry faster and better.  Try wiping sweat away with messy rubber gloves covered with solution......... don't be tempted or forget what's on your hands. 

I am loving the automation part. 
It's a Fujitsu 15RLS3 if anyone wants to see the specs. 
http://www.fujitsu-general.com/us/products/split/wall/asu15rls3.html







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Posted By: S Curry
Date Posted: Jun/30/2017 at 1:35pm
Mine is a 9000 BTU without the resistant heating backup. Runs 7 amps draw total. At 240 VAC, I ran 12 guage wire to the disconnect. I have no complaints. I installed mine about 5 years ago. It was 1750 for the unit with duct work, copper and outside wall mount. $250 to have a HVAC tech cut in the piping. Keeps the garage at 60 for most of the winter until it drops -10F then it struggles to keep up. Did I say it is quiet....

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SC


Posted By: Ollie
Date Posted: Jun/30/2017 at 2:40pm
The best thing I have done to my shop was a dehumidifier. I got a top of the line unit, auto pumper, set at 65%, auto runs 24/7, 365 days. Even if the temp goes below freezing, it senses it.   No more sweating tool boxes, floors, etc.

As far as the heat pump in my house.....it doesn't work to good with high humidity. Waste of money in the Southland. I heated for years with a wood stove and last year I got tired of playing with wood so I went ventless propane heater.... ...turn the knob and warm !!!

Having AMC Fun,
Ollie

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1966 American Convertible -- "The Rambler"..SOLD
1974 Postal Jeep -- "Rapid Delivery"...SOLD
1969 Rambler 220 post car--"Road Warrior"
1989 Jeep Comanche Pioneer, 4.0L, auto, 2wd


Posted By: 70MarkDonohue
Date Posted: Jun/30/2017 at 6:58pm
I've been installing these for years.
I just did a hole house with mini splits
I put them in shipping containers for offices.


Posted By: 70BBOAMX
Date Posted: Jun/30/2017 at 11:13pm
How does the washable filter in the mini split deal with the welding smoke, dust and other air contaminants that occur in a busy shop?



Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Jul/01/2017 at 6:35am
You wash it more than the standard once a year. There are other filters that remove allergens and odors you'd need to replace sooner.
I don't weld that often. I do use the chop saw, torch, etc. as well as sanding and so on. They did suggest shutting it down when painting or heavy sanding with a whole lot of dust.
Much of my work is grinding, polishing and so on. Plating won't bother but the powder coating sure will!

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Posted By: CamJam
Date Posted: Jul/01/2017 at 11:24am
I owned a house in Mexico several years ago, and these systems were common-place down there. At the time they weren't being sold in the U.S. and I always wondered why.   Finally they are gaining acceptance here.  

I put one in a commercial building I own two years ago and it's worked out fine.  We'd added a couple of offices to it and needed a way to heat and cool them without disrupting the HVAC in the rest of the building.


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'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD



Posted By: WayneHenley
Date Posted: Jul/10/2017 at 7:30am
Thanks for sharing you experience. One of my friends recently installed split ac, but it was not installed correctly and due that he was facing problem. Please suggest best mini-split air conditioning repairs nj services, which are affordable as well as reliable. To get more details have a look here at : http://allweekairconditioning.com/ductless-air-conditioning-mini-split-service.html


Posted By: CamJam
Date Posted: Jul/17/2017 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by WayneHenley WayneHenley wrote:

Thanks for sharing you experience. One of my friends recently installed split ac, but it was not installed correctly and due that he was facing problem. Please suggest best mini-split air conditioning repairs nj services, which are affordable as well as reliable. To get more details have a look here at : http://allweekairconditioning.com/ductless-air-conditioning-mini-split-service.html

This might have changed now that they have become more popular, but previously I thought that most of the major U.S. manufacturers sourced their mini-splits from Mitsubishi (Japan) or China.  In any case, the one we installed is a Trane, and it has been trouble-free.


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'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD



Posted By: 74gremx
Date Posted: Jul/17/2017 at 6:48pm
These are being installed by the thousands here in australia, but not for car storage due to the design of our sheds. My shed can get to 44 degrees centigrade in summer so nothing gets done.
I have an LG brand in my home office and it's great. Compressor ramps up and down on demand using the inverter.
I work in air cond and the most popular is Daikin and mitsubishi by far, but I got the lg on price and its been fine.
Where I am in adelaide its called the Athens of the South so you can work out our temperature range

Dave

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1970 Javelin 360/727
1974 Levis Gremlin X 304/904
1964 American Convertible
1974 Matador wagon (parts)
2016 Holden Cruze Equipe
2014 Holden Colorado
"Don't mistake activity for achievement".






Posted By: brownspirit
Date Posted: Jul/18/2017 at 6:23pm
I'm an HVAC guy by trade, and put ductless units in frequently. If you do some wood working in the shop, don't be stingy about cleaning the filters. Dirty filters are a good way to smash the valves in the compressor. A/C in the garage is mandatory as far as I'm concerned.

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69' BBB AMX 390/4-speed

69' s/crambler project

69’ International F210d Cummins/5+4


Posted By: 70MarkDonohue
Date Posted: Aug/29/2017 at 7:15pm
I'm going down to Little Rock AR to install a Fujitsu in a shipping container on a barge .



Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Aug/29/2017 at 7:41pm
I wonder what you would have charged to come to Iowa to install one......  ;-)

I love this unit. It's not that expensive to run and keeps the moisture out - and that's the biggest thing. And yes on the dust - the wood shop above generates a lot of dust. Luckily not that much filters down but enough. I have an air filter up there I can run that really cleans the fine dust out of the air. It's three speed and has a timer so I can turn it on and let it run for however long I choose to get the dust out even after I have left. 

I will have to set up reminders to check the filters every so often - as the blast cabinets contribute dust and powder coating is even worse since I don't have a space dedicated to that as of yet. 
My longer term plan is to enclose the lean-to and make a room for blasting and powder coating - with a filter system, exhaust, etc.

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Posted By: jpnjim
Date Posted: Aug/29/2017 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by 70MarkDonohue 70MarkDonohue wrote:

I'm going down to Little Rock AR to install a Fujitsu in a shipping container on a barge .


Thats pretty awesome

Are they living in it?

They set up little burger shops, hot dog stands etc in shipping containers in some places around here,
I was checking out a few down by the seaport here today.


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71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX
some Jeeps and some Fords


Posted By: 70MarkDonohue
Date Posted: Sep/01/2017 at 10:45am
It's a control room for a crane arm to unload a barge.


Posted By: Class Guy
Date Posted: Sep/03/2017 at 7:13am
About 15 years ago, we bought an old apartment complex (built in 1947) that had been retrofitted by the previous owners with mini splits for heat and a/c.  Although the units used were from the front end of the technology curve and we had some difficulty finding parts, the overall operation was great.  I had never seen them before and have since advocated their use in many applications.

70MarkDonahue - If you have some idle time in Little Rock and want something to do, give me a hollar; I live in Conway.  Did you know that the Drag-On-Lady AMX is owned by a Dr in LR?


Posted By: texasamx
Date Posted: Sep/12/2017 at 4:43pm
Now that's 1 cool looking shop ( both ways )


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Sep/12/2017 at 9:33pm
hahaha - good one, thanks. I love it...... but it's jam-packed wall-to-wall now with projects, cars and equipment (until I get the Eagle wagon sold and the SX4 project done (which is a year over-due already)
I'm having to use my engine bench for the plating tanks and supplies and the electric/alternator bench is doubling for other projects. 
At least it IS staying cooler in there. And this week it's supposed to get back into the 90s again so it'll be kicking in again. So far I've hardly noticed the impact on the electric bill. It takes little to operate it. 

I was hoping to collect the water (condensate) from it to use for my plating and cleaning purposes but after a few days the jugs I put the water into ends up with pretty colored and white stuff floating around in them. DANG.  I go through a ton of water - and need distilled water as much as possible. I guess stuff in the air gets into that - mold spores and so on - and maybe the light that gets into the jugs does it, or maybe it would anyway. 
ODD as heck, the jug I use to collect the water in never gets anything growing in it, even if I don't collect the water for two or three days. I wonder why?

The system is quiet - it's not easy to tell when it's running. 


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Posted By: Green AMX
Date Posted: Sep/13/2017 at 7:50pm
Bill 
Maybe you should should billd a still so you can distill your own water "water" 


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69 AMX 390 4speed go pack
72 Javelin 360 auto(sons)
82 Spirit (wife's 1st car)still not done


Posted By: 70MarkDonohue
Date Posted: Sep/24/2017 at 8:25pm
Going down to Baton Rouge Louisiana to install a Fujitsu unit 4 Ton with two 2 ton indoor coils.
And a 10 ton unit to cool hydraulic fluid. 



Posted By: 70MarkDonohue
Date Posted: Oct/02/2017 at 6:59pm
In a couple weeks going down to Orange TX to install two 4 ton Fujitsu with four 2 ton indoor coils.
For some people that got flooded out.


Posted By: 70MarkDonohue
Date Posted: Oct/15/2017 at 9:34am
Loading up to go down to Orange TX. 
Still trying to find a room to stay in.


Posted By: BDCVG
Date Posted: Dec/05/2017 at 9:59pm
Used to love My Mitsu ac units, until I took one apart and saw how much mold was on the barrel shaped fan.

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1970 AMX 390 5 spd full Control Freaks front and rear suspension
2014 E63 AMG-S wagon
1965 Austin-Healey 3000 MK III              


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Dec/05/2017 at 10:16pm
It's amazing how many things - including AC units of all sorts - you find mold in or on. It's in the condensate lines of most AC units, anything that has moisture for any great length of time. Clean out the workings of your refrigerator......... dishwasher, etc. and you'll find disgusting slime/mold/black gunk that is actually mold. 
I hate dealing with window air units and air handlers for heat pumps, evaporator areas of central AC - i wear a mask and gloves. MOLD in most cases. Awfully hard to get around it without frequent cleaning. 
In our area we even get MOLD on the ground in the summer because it's so humid. It smells bad at times. Use a weed killer and you'll find the dead weeds are masses of slime a few weeks later - not dried up and crumbled away. 

At least now I don't have junk growing on car seats and book covers in my shop.

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Posted By: DetroitAMX
Date Posted: Jan/18/2019 at 12:18am

   Been looking at a cooling unit for my shop here in Detroit.
How would you say they function as a 'Air Conditioner' air cooling unit?


Posted By: LouB
Date Posted: Jan/02/2021 at 10:09am
I bought a Mr Cool DIY 24K BTU Mini-Split to cool/heat my 3 Car garage/shop.  It's about the best investment i ever made for the shop (I live in Texas)- I now spend much more time working on my project, plus the humidity is controlled which helps with keeping the sheet metal from surface rusting between repair and sealing.  Can control unit from smart phone.  It's an outstanding unit.  My wife is pissed- she says my shop is more comfortable than our home!

I too experienced the drain tube getting grungy.  My unit had a tube extension connection about one foot from the unit so it was a convenient point to disconnect to service the tube.  I would fill a bucket full of hot water and some bleach.  I connected the tube to one side of a drill operated pump and the other into the bucket.  I ran the drill for 5 minutes running that hot water through the drain tube- it cleaned on all the junk real well.  



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