Print Page | Close Window

First-Ever Encounter - Rare Mexican Headers

Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: AMC 6 Cylinder Engine Repair and Modifications
Forum Description: AMC-made I-6 engine mechanical, ignition and fuel from basic repair to high-perf modifications
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86250
Printed Date: Mar/29/2024 at 12:47am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: First-Ever Encounter - Rare Mexican Headers
Posted By: Rambler Mexicano
Subject: First-Ever Encounter - Rare Mexican Headers
Date Posted: Mar/19/2017 at 7:28pm
Pictures below.

I met with a friend for the first time since 2013, he owns a 1971 VAM Javelin that still carries its original 1971 282 inline six cylinder. At that time, it was when we met for the first time and since I was part of the organizers of that particular event, I really didn't have time to have a good look at his car or talk to him about it.

At that time I saw something strange about the Javelin, it had headers instead of the standard exhaust manifold. At the time, I took for granted they were custom-made, but apparently, I was wrong.

First of all, this is a regular production VAM Javelin; it's NOT a Go Pack Javelin, which carries a four-barrel aluminum intake manifold, Carter AVS or AFB carburetor, exhaust headers, dual exhausts, 302 degree camshaft, ported engine head with larger valves and independent rockers, and reinfoced damper pulley.

According to my friend, the headers on the car are original units, they were not installed afterwards AND they ARE specified in the car's invoice.

I do know that headers in VAM cars were available as optional equipment as an individual accesory, they were not exclusive to the full Go Pack. This seems to be one such case.

Within VAM, despite the fact that the factory offered several accessories as options, the delearships would opt to offer the same accessories from outside sources, not just the ones not offered by the factory. The issue here is that I don't know if these headers are the factory units or dealership-made ones.

So far, I haven't seen LIVE any 1967-1971 VAM car with the Go Pack installed, only in pictures of cars sent by friends outside from where I live. Due to this, I can't tell if these headers are the same units used in Go Pack cars or a dealership-exclusive unit.

The really UNIQUE thing here, what is truly important, is that these are functional dual-outlet headers for inline six cylinder engines WITH THE STARTER PLACED AT THE INTAKES' SIDE OF THE ENGINE.

So far, all Javelins and 1967-1971 VAM cars I've seen with headers on, they are ALL custom-made, not a single ORIGINAL unit.

The original VAM headers are still in production by the original company DACIA in Mexico City. However, these are just the 3500 RPM mid-range headers used in the 1979-1983 VAM cars with the starters on the distributor's sides of the engines, what we could call the second-generation headers. The "first generation" Go Pack headers used from 1967 through 1974 are out of production.

On another note, the 1971 Javelin represents the ONLY year and model in which the 282 inline six cylinder engine had the started placed on the intakes' side. Like under AMC, all VAM engines in 1972 changed the side of the starter.

This is the car in question.



Engine pictures here:







Header pictures:



Full Side View



More Lighting



Three-Quarter View



A slightly deeper shot, below the intake. NOTICE the round outlets that connect the headers to the final exhaust pipes.



Using flash.



Farthest pipes. Notice the starter in the background. 

-------------
Mauricio Jordán

Cuando no se es una empresa famosa se deben hacer mejores automóviles.
- Vehículos Automotores Mexicanos S. A. de C. V.



Replies:
Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Mar/19/2017 at 8:02pm
Pretty cool.


Posted By: uncljohn
Date Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 12:57am
That certainly is something that would rate the word COOL. And apparently in pretty decent condition. Curiosity asks what transmission would be in it.
VAM did have a bell housing to install a T-10 transmission to an early I-6 engine, but would this engine be related in block castings to the later I-6 thus a V-8 Bell Housing bolt pattern, or the earlier version which had it's own bell housing bolt pattern.

-------------
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam


Posted By: 1982AMCConcord
Date Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 6:49am
VAM carried Group 19 parts for the inline 6.... big carbs... headers... special intake manifolds... camshafts... the inline 6 engine was very very popular throughout much of South America! VAM has a great history and its fascinating! Matter of fact.. that 6 cylinder has a Motorcraft 2100 on it stock!



Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 8:14am
Interesting notes:
That is a delco starter, U.S. changed over to Motorcraft in 1969.

It's also stated the later model headers are still available new. Not something easy to get up here without ordering a set be made up.


-------------
Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler
4.0L, 5 speed
2015 Grand Cherokee Limited
2019 Chrysler 300


Posted By: 73Gremlin401
Date Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 8:27am
Originally posted by Wrambler Wrambler wrote:

Interesting notes:

It's also stated the later model headers are still available new. Not something easy to get up here without ordering a set be made up.


No kidding.  My ears perked up on reading that.  One of my biggest regrets was giving away a 6cyl aluminum VAM intake for the Motorcraft 2100 back in my young and stupid days.  That later-model headers are still available down there really interests me - enough that I'd consider building another 6 again.

Given that Clifford has all but given up, and that VAM parts were designed for much harsher driving conditions than we have up here, importing these parts would make a lot of sense.


-------------
73 Gremlin 401/5-spd.
77 Matador Wagon 360/727.
81 Jeep J10 LWB 360/4-spd
83 Concord DL 4-dr 258/auto



Posted By: 1982AMCConcord
Date Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 8:39am
Originally posted by Wrambler Wrambler wrote:

Interesting notes:
It's also stated the later model headers are still available new. Not something easy to get up here without ordering a set be made up.

Ah.. yeah... I'm ready for this too! Anytime.. anywhere... as long as their not Clifford I would buy a set of these... I'll order it from Mexico if possible.... put my name on the list. This is a novelty worth having...



Posted By: 83GT
Date Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 8:47am
Originally posted by Rambler Mexicano Rambler Mexicano wrote:

The original VAM headers are still in production by the original company DACIA in Mexico City. 

Ok, now you have our attention, how can we order a set...?



-------------
2014 Star Stryker - Only Ride
1992 Bayliner Trophy Walk-Around


Posted By: 1982AMCConcord
Date Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 9:04am
Originally posted by 83GT 83GT wrote:

Originally posted by Rambler Mexicano Rambler Mexicano wrote:

The original VAM headers are still in production by the original company DACIA in Mexico City. 

Ok, now you have our attention, how can we order a set...?


Boom! first and second... who's number 3??? 


Posted By: 232jav3sp
Date Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 9:25am
Originally posted by 1982AMCConcord 1982AMCConcord wrote:

Originally posted by 83GT 83GT wrote:

Originally posted by Rambler Mexicano Rambler Mexicano wrote:

The original VAM headers are still in production by the original company DACIA in Mexico City. 

Ok, now you have our attention, how can we order a set...?


Boom! first and second... who's number 3??? 

How much we talkin'?  


I'd really love an early set for my cars.  Too bad they aren't being produced.


Posted By: 1982AMCConcord
Date Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 9:28am
Originally posted by 232jav3sp 232jav3sp wrote:

I'd really love an early set for my cars.  Too bad they aren't being produced.

Not sure but from what the OP said... they ARE still being produced in Mexico! So.. that's why we are getting ready!!!! I take it you're #3 right? Wink


Posted By: 232jav3sp
Date Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 9:51am
Originally posted by 1982AMCConcord 1982AMCConcord wrote:

Originally posted by 232jav3sp 232jav3sp wrote:

I'd really love an early set for my cars.  Too bad they aren't being produced.

Not sure but from what the OP said... they ARE still being produced in Mexico! So.. that's why we are getting ready!!!! I take it you're #3 right? Wink


OP said that the 1st generation headers (67-71) are not being produced.  Only the later years are.  I have a later 258 that they would work on.  I might be tempted to buy a set, depending on price.  Having to take time off from work due to a cold, so, money is a worry at the moment.


Posted By: 1982AMCConcord
Date Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 10:12am
Originally posted by 232jav3sp 232jav3sp wrote:

 
OP said that the 1st generation headers (67-71) are not being produced.  Only the later years are.  I have a later 258 that they would work on.  I might be tempted to buy a set, depending on price.  Having to take time off from work due to a cold, so, money is a worry at the moment.


Ah... I see! Clifford does make a pre-72 header but I only see it listed on their site as a package. 

http://www.shop.cliffordperformance.net/68AMC-COMBINATION-Pre-1972-68AMC.htm



Posted By: Rambler Mexicano
Date Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 4:16pm
The transmission in this car is a TREMEC 170-F four speed manual with Hurst linkage. The Borg-Warner T-10 was used in VAM cars until mid 1970, replaced by the aforementioned transmission mainly due to the fact that it was locally-made while the BW was imported.

Now that I've seen the evidence, it seems that these headers are dealership-special units, not the Go Pack ones.

The VAM Go Pack headers were made for high-range power (5000 RPM), they were longer and divided between the odd numbered and even numbered cylinders as well as all pipes sharing the same length. I know this from former VAM employees, I've never actually had the chance to see the Go Pack headers LIVE.

The headers in this Javelin (as well as the ones in 1979-1983 VAM cars) are divided between the first three and second three cylinders and the pipes have different lengths. This suggests a mid-range power accessory like the 3500 RPM units of 1979-1983.

Yet, the truly valuable aspect of this Javelin's headers is the fact that they can be used with first-gen six cylinder engines (starter on the intakes' side).

We also have to take into account the downside of the Go Pack headers, the pipes being longer means the set is larger in general size. This could mean it probably cannot be used in cars like the pre-1966 Rambler Americans (1966-1969 units were slightly longer and had a redesigned firewall) plus 1963-1966 Rambler Classics and 1963-1964 Rambler Ambassadors. It's a certainty they were used in Javelins, VAM Classics (Rebels) and VAM 1967-1969 Rambler Americans (as well as 1970-1971 Hornet-based VAM Rambler Americans and Rambler American Rallys).

Yet, the smaller size of the header system used in this 1971 VAM Javelin OPENS UP A POSSIBILITY of using a header system for practically all 1963-1966 American Motors cars with six cylinder engines, with the only exceptions of the L-head 195.6s.

I make no promises but if I have available money AND my friends needs to take the headers down I will do my best to make a custom-made exact replica of these headers.

Now going to the "second generation" headers for VAM engines with the starter located to the distributor's side of the block, here are some pictures:

Full view, intake and headers:



Front view, under the intake:



Under the intake, closer:



Side view:



Header outlets looked from the front of the engine:



Header outlets looked from the back of the engine (cowl side):



Lower side, final exhaust:



As for taking the "second generation" headers to the US, there's a lot to take into account.

I need to check on the price of a new set first. A couple years ago they were on the 5000 pesos mark (250 US dollars) and I haven't checked again since. Now it's got to be higher than that.

Delivering would be the hardest issue here; due to size and weigh the price on delivery will be higher than normal, but that is the least of our problems. What truly worries me is the issue of CUSTOMS and TAXES at the border. THIS ALONE along with the part price and delivery price combined would make everything VERY EXPENSIVE in the end.

I would say the best way to go would be for any forum member interested on a set to let me know is he/she has a friend/familiy member that either lives in Mexico or travels frequently to Mexico (and has a fixed address here). If such a person is located near the border, that would be for the best.

I would send the header set to such friend/family member, and in the first chance of him/her going to the US (in car) he can deliver the set to the forum member.

I think this would be the bast-case scenario, but I still need to hear opinions from everyone.


-------------
Mauricio Jordán

Cuando no se es una empresa famosa se deben hacer mejores automóviles.
- Vehículos Automotores Mexicanos S. A. de C. V.


Posted By: 1982AMCConcord
Date Posted: Mar/21/2017 at 5:58am
YEah.. I can see how the costs associated with buying stuff over the boarder would be a problem that would prohibit some of us from getting them. I know if it was a lot more money to process through customs and a lot of extra taxes.. I probably would skip it too. Is there a possible way to just get them directly shipped from the manufacturer? I know no one in Mexico! If not hey.. it was worth a try... as much as I'd like to get them... I have a 360 I want to build up anyway... it was just a thought... maybe other guys would be more serious about getting them then me.


Posted By: 6768rogues
Date Posted: Mar/21/2017 at 3:14pm
And I thought NAFTA allowed the free flow of goods across the border...

-------------
Content intended for mature audiences. If you experience nausea or diarrhea, stop reading and seek medical attention.

Located usually near Rochester, NY and sometimes central FL.


Posted By: matty 401
Date Posted: Mar/21/2017 at 8:33pm
would love to have the intake and header 

-------------
72 matador 401 the beast
79 concord 2 door
72 matador 304 grasshopper
68 Rogue 406
93 Cherokee 4.0 5 speed



Posted By: tomj
Date Posted: Mar/21/2017 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by 6768rogues 6768rogues wrote:

And I thought NAFTA allowed the free flow of goods across the border...

if you are a large corporation. "globalization" is about corporate money, not actual people! 



-------------
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com



Posted By: 1982AMCConcord
Date Posted: Mar/23/2017 at 5:58am
Originally posted by matty 401 matty 401 wrote:

would love to have the intake and header 

If you could ever find a complete VAM 282 they'll have both and a 2100 stock... plus an even better head to port match and polish too! VAM really got the I-6 goodies.... I can't imagine such a huge AMC 6 complimented with those kinds of parts stock.... then add one of these headers and a VAM Group 19 camshaft... these cars must have been pretty fast back then... for what they were. These are basically all the upgrades a Jeep or Gremlin guy would put on their 258's. Imagine if this larger engine package was available for the American Spirit GT or AMX. A few years ago I came across a guy on Craigslist down near Chicago that had a complete VAM 282. It was disassembled but looked really clean. I was going to buy it but by the time I got an email in to the guy... there were already several guys in front of me and it was gone within a few days. So to me... that particular I6 engine would've been a pretty unique build up and worth the price he wanted. I was really kicking myself for not seeing that ad earlier. I was thinking a GM Rochester TBI on top of it and a Clifford header would've made it about right for my Concord. Later on a got a sweet deal on a complete 360 so... in the end I realized that although I wanted some v8 power out of an I6... I could still get v8 power in a v8. I'm still really interested in 6's though and would still consider a VAM 282 inline if I ran across it again.


Posted By: 81eagle88
Date Posted: Mar/29/2017 at 9:19pm
Knowing the existing problems and not caring for the Clifford header for the 258 in the Eagles (pan mount) I would love to put the Clifford 4bbl intake with a 390 Cfm carb and dual exhaust on my 88 Eagle with a set of Smitty steel packs on it....256 cam also, not too radical....but good sounds


Posted By: mitchito
Date Posted: Mar/29/2017 at 9:52pm
NAFTA means no import duty on anything made in Mexico so no worries there. Mauricio knows where my Lerma is, he can throw a few sets in the back and I will be driving it back to New York in a month or so. 

Mitch


-------------
1982 Rambler Lerma
1981 Rambler Lerma coupe
1978 American (Concord base)
1977 Gremlin
1976 Pacer X


Posted By: uncljohn
Date Posted: Mar/30/2017 at 10:43am
As to duals or headers on a street engine I-6 I have never really felt that they were worth the expense to install. The engines are small and a large single pipe seems more than adequate. That said, I have a single pipe manifold that I bought used from a Jeep salvage yard on the 258 in my Spirit running through the a high flow catalytic converter and a 16 inch glass pack. I am using the Chrysler fuel injection which makes the whole thing smog legal which at the time was important and still is registered that way. Personally I like the growl the thing sounds like and it has been trouble free for 50,000 miles.

-------------
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam


Posted By: 81eagle88
Date Posted: Mar/30/2017 at 12:02pm
Hudson found the a single large exhaust pipe was better breathing for the large 308 cu in six cylinder. NASCAR victories in the early fifties proved that a powerful torquey engine could beat the bent eights especially with a low center of gravity and a tight unit body. Nash's unit body further proved its viability. As a cars engine is essentially an air pump, more air in with more out via the scavenging effect of the large pipe increased the hp. Hudson was putting out 210 horsepower plus above the early V-8's. Not bad for an engine that turned <5000 rpm.
I just personally liked the sound of the dual pipes, my 53 Super Jet had dual exhaust with straight pipes until the Judge suggested otherwise...



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net