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Pre-70 Performance suspension

Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: Competition
Forum Name: Autocross, circle track
Forum Description: Ralleys, autocross, non-drag racing events and conversations
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=84562
Printed Date: Apr/16/2024 at 1:16pm
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Topic: Pre-70 Performance suspension
Posted By: 343sharpstick
Subject: Pre-70 Performance suspension
Date Posted: Dec/21/2016 at 11:40am
Just thought I would start a thread specifically discussing the Pre-1970 Trunion front suspension in a high performance application.
I've had my 1969 Javelin on the Road from 2009, and I've had a great time with it.
When I built the car, I basically did all the stuff to my front suspension that was done to the 68 TA Race car.
Does it work, sure does! I would recommend what I've done to anyone interested in putting together a trunion front suspension car.

Looking at some improvements for the future, but you would not be disappointed with this, Listing this here to assist anyone interested in setting up you car, and also keep everyone aware of the limitations.

What I have up front now:
- Boxed lower arms,
- Higher rate and shorter springs
- Larger front anti-sway bar
- All Polyurethane bushings
- Strut rod replaced with rod end
- 17 inch wheels with 200 treadwear tires 215/45-17 up front.
- Edelbrock shocks (No longer available)





Replies:
Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Dec/21/2016 at 11:51am
I do not have lowering plates, as I didn't want to add the un-sprung weight. I've done a few autocross events, and my first impression is that the front of the car needs more grip, (OK, to be honest, my first impression was that I need to be a better driver!) obviously when running a trunion front suspension you are limited in front tire size.

Be aware that you are not only limited from a backspacing standpoint, you are also limited on the overall diameter and width to the outside, based on the amount of caster you dial in.

In the experiment below I put a larger tire on the front to test fitment. This is a 245/50-17. Notice that the front edge will contact the corner of the front fender. This is installed using a spacer to clear the trunion. On the inside the tire was about 1/8 gap between the tire and the trunion. this is with about 3 degrees of caster.

With a Radial tire, you want as much caster as possible with an older pro-touring type of car. Most cars set up for performance driving will have at least 5 degrees of caster. This is not possible with trunion front suspension, based on the limitation of the trunion itself. It was designed for 1 to 2 degrees of caster used with bias ply tires.
For comparison, a 2005-2010 mustang specifies 7.1 degrees of caster.

And BTW, if you are building a car, a little metal work up here to add some clearance would probably be a good idea. Had I known this before I had everything painted ...




Posted By: iapexl8r
Date Posted: Dec/21/2016 at 5:46pm
sweet! thanks for the info. luckily I am in process of doing body work and will be "adjusting the front fenders for 15x8 rims with 245/60/15 tires and I have already massaged the rear quarters to fit a 275/60/15 on a 9" rim with 3 3/4" back space


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Dec/21/2016 at 7:57pm
Cool, off topic completely, but it's my thread anyway :) AMC 20 rear axle, or other?


Posted By: iapexl8r
Date Posted: Dec/25/2016 at 10:00am
 to answer your question I have an amc 20 rear end with solid axles, the one the car came with.


          I have been thinking about the suspension not being able to get the required caster for performance driving. I am guessing the limiting factor is the lack of articulation of the Trunnion . Has any one ever tried to either make the upper control arm mounts or the control arm itself adjustable? My thinking is if you could either raise the forward mount or "angle" (or twist on a horizontal plane) the upper control  arm forward end up  to effectively put the trunnion at more of an angle to allow the lower control arm outer spindle mount to be  moved forward without putting to much strain on the trunnion.  Just a thought

                                                                 Chris


Posted By: iapexl8r
Date Posted: Dec/25/2016 at 10:02am
Also what front brakes are you running?


Posted By: Rogue401
Date Posted: Dec/26/2016 at 4:20pm
I think I remember reading that the Ron Kaplan cars had factory modified inner fenders that mounted the upper control arms at an angle to increase the caster and have some anti-dive built in. 


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Dec/26/2016 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Rogue401 Rogue401 wrote:

I think I remember reading that the Ron Kaplan cars had factory modified inner fenders that mounted the upper control arms at an angle to increase the caster and have some anti-dive built in. 



IIRC, Donohue mentioned that the 69 Javelin that was given to assist with the setup the 70 T/A car... he was surprised by the lack of suspension travel at the front, and how well it put up a good fight. Maybe trunions work best by going against what he sets up 70 on up suspensions in track form. His requirement is 3 inches play from bump stop to full travel. With today's tires and requirements to keep the tracking and rigidity at lateral Gs 2 inches is max with a wee give in the bump stops.

-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Dec/27/2016 at 11:22am
I have the 'Aerospace brakes' kit. When I got that the Wilwood kit was not yet available. I do like the Aerospace kit, just not many upgrade options available last I checked. I did replace the pads with the more aggressive track pads and that made a significant improvement.
 
I've heard lots of rumors on what was done to the 68/69 T/A cars. all I can comment on is what I've tried.
One idea I had was to add a spherical bearing to the horizontal mount point of the trunion.
I went over many options, including replacing the vertical ball bearing with a tapered roller bearing, but all that is not as elegant as the simple upper ball joint solution.
 
In tearing down my front suspension I just found another problem caused by trying to add too much caster Wacko


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Dec/27/2016 at 1:25pm
Here is the passenger side lower control arm. Looks like pushing the control arm toward the front of the car exerted extra pressure on the bushing at the connection point to the chassis. Over time it looks like it broke the lip of the bushing as it was pushing forward. Booo!
 
OK,


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Dec/27/2016 at 2:48pm
I am sure one can beef up lower control arms like the ones used for police use on 70 on up lower arms. UnclJohn or MrEd had posted a section on police control arms, which had some illistrations.

-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: Javelin_GT
Date Posted: Dec/27/2016 at 5:33pm
Here are my lower control arms.  They are boxed underneath.  Have bigger Chrysler ball joint and spherical bearing.





Posted By: iapexl8r
Date Posted: Dec/27/2016 at 5:36pm
The lower control arm should be a fairly straight forward fix with adding a heim joint in place of the Bushing, probably be best to make a whole new arm with the heim joint.

     Do the aerospace brakes have vented rotors?

                                               Chris

Ha just enterd my post then saw the reply about the  bigger Chrysler ball joint and spherical bearing. What parts did you need to perform this mod.  Javelin_gt?


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Dec/27/2016 at 8:38pm
Yeah, the Aerospace kit has vented rotors. You can add drilled and slotted for some extra cost as well. I think they have a drag racing only kit without vented rotors too.

Javelin-GT, love your lower control arms. If I were to go that far I'd connect both ends with a DOM tube ;)
I think I'll use the control arm that's on the bench now and build up a fixture right away. :)


Posted By: Rampar
Date Posted: Dec/29/2016 at 7:52am
You Didn't Mention anything about Sub-frame Connectors. I Hear those help keep it "flat" Do you have some?

-------------
1966 Rampar American


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Dec/29/2016 at 10:15am
I did fabricate subframe connectors, notched and welded them into the chassis when I had the car on the rotisserie.
I hadn't driven the car without them so I dont have a good comparison on before and after. I've done a few things out back as well ;)
Mostly focusing on front Trunion in this thread, although I do enjoy discussions of all changes I've made, and there are a bunch, as there are a few AMCr's out there trying to make the front suspension designed in the 1940's a bit better.


Posted By: Javelin_GT
Date Posted: Jan/05/2017 at 1:50pm
My car finally came home yesterday.  Here is the front end done.  Not sure why the pic is sideways.




Posted By: snakeeyes
Date Posted: Jan/05/2017 at 8:19pm
Javelin_GT,

Is that a custom torsion sway bar? Been thinking of doing something like that for my car.


Posted By: Javelin_GT
Date Posted: Jan/05/2017 at 8:38pm
I bought a good used Schreader sway bar off eBay and new arms for from Summit I think. You also need a couple pillow blocks for it to slide through. At least one other forum member has done this. He has a javelin build here in the road race section.


Posted By: snakeeyes
Date Posted: Jan/05/2017 at 8:44pm
Okay, cool I have a similar setup that I put on my truck. The simplicity of it had made me think of doing something similar on the car.


Posted By: Rampar
Date Posted: Jan/05/2017 at 9:15pm
You should take some more pics of this 

-------------
1966 Rampar American


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/06/2017 at 9:45am
Javelin_GT, do you have any information, part numbers and/or manufacturer, on the spherical bearing and housing you used on your lower control arm?

Also, are you certain that straight anti-sway bar will clear the front corner of the oil pan? Did you move the mounting forward of the stock location?
Here is a picture of the '68 T/A car which still used the stock-style bar.


Thanks.
MS


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/06/2017 at 10:02am
Originally posted by 343sharpstick 343sharpstick wrote:

Javelin_GT, do you have any information, part numbers and/or manufacturer, on the spherical bearing and housing you used on your lower control arm?

Also, are you certain that straight anti-sway bar will clear the front corner of the oil pan? Did you move the mounting forward of the stock location?
Here is a picture of the '68 T/A car which still used the stock-style bar.


Thanks.
MS


From the length of the sway bar arms and how far up the mounts are in relation to stock, the sway bar is mounted in front of the pan not under it.

-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/06/2017 at 10:04am
Here are a couple more pictures of the 68 T/A cars. The only year in which the Trunion suspension was used. And a successful year for the Team!
The front ride height looks killer, but I can't imagine it has more than one or two inches of up travel! Given that sway bar they are using the front spring rates must be massive.









Posted By: Javelin_GT
Date Posted: Jan/06/2017 at 10:09am
The sway bar is far enough forward not to interfere.

Also I have a build thread for questions.  Sorry for getting your thread of topic Mike.

http://theamcforum.com/forum/amx-rally-car_topic78040.html" rel="nofollow - http://theamcforum.com/forum/amx-rally-car_topic78040.html


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/06/2017 at 10:13am
Under hard braking my front suspension drops at least 3 inches, and for a street car my spring rates are about perfect.
Here is a picture from OUSCI braking for the speed stop, which BTW is harder than it looks on TV!





Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/06/2017 at 10:23am
Donohue stated the suspension was riding on bumpstops. Very little travel... assuming that was the best one can do with stock trunions for TA work, since the Javelins were running hard against the best setup Camero ever. Proof a solid built suspension, where body roll and deflection on the lower arms can be reduced by making the lower arms more parallel with the ground than angled in stock form. Something I am working on myself on my Javelin, though it is a 71. Really does not matter on what components you use, it matters on how the suspension operates under driving conditions. The more angled the lower arms are the better for off road stability. The more level they are to the ground the better for road coarse. Just look at F1 and Indy cars, the arms are fairly parallel when in the corners. Long arms also help as to keep the change of suspension travel from making the angle of deflection more acute. Less angle better steering and handling in the corners. Plus you get a lower center of gravity in making the body weight rest at the wheel's center rather than above center, where the body will want to roll over than push at the wheels.

Even though I am using a 71 suspension, my changes will work for any suspension. Simply adding an inch in lower arm length dropping the spring saddles, and moving the shock towers to produce best camber and caster for today's tires, and lower the center of gravity. It will ride harsh considering I am expecting 1-1/2" travel with a HD spring setup.

-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/06/2017 at 10:27am
Ahh! I see now, you mounted it in front of the Idler Arm.
All relevant to getting pre-70 stuff working. I hope it helps others down the road.


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/06/2017 at 11:02am
304-dude. Agree completely. What RKE did in 68 was truly impressive!

I measured and modeled the front suspension at my 2016 ride height, which was lower than stock by about 1.5 to 2 inches using custom springs, and basically the angle of the lower and upper control arms was less than ideal. The upper arms were nearly horizontal! This puts your instant center, and resulting roll center relatively high to say the least.



Getting the lower arms horizontal is a good starting point, but will make for a very short spring using stock components.

Here is where the whole compromise things gets in the way. The rear of my car is nearly as low as I can get it, so If I were to lower the front of the car additionally, it would improve the roll center, but reduce caster, which is already at max and much less than it needs to be with radial tires.

Probably ‘OK’ on a road course, but as it is now getting the car around the autocross with very little steering self-centering is interesting.
The stuff I have in the works for this year that fixes everything except anti-dive.


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/06/2017 at 11:14am
Yeah, them long springs on the pre 70 cars make it difficult without custom springs or mounting coil overs on a modded shoc tower. Caster will always be a problem unless you mod the shock tower or go with a CF suspension.

Offsetting the upper balljoint may be the only simple option to correct the caster issue.



-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: Addicted
Date Posted: Mar/05/2017 at 10:52pm
Interesting thread, building a 64 Classic that will be used for.. um shall we say spirited driving. I have a dedicated autocross car but want run my Rambler occasionally also. Have been giving a lot of thought to the front suspension and how to make it work correctly.


Posted By: Aus69Jav
Date Posted: Mar/21/2017 at 11:43pm
Reading this thread got me thinking on how to increase caster on 68-70 Javelin/AMX.

Would it be possible to bore the horizontal pivot point at an angle, say 3 degrees.
The bore would then be over size by about 3mm, faces would need to be squared up to the bore.
Then machine new bushings to fit the over size bore and with thicker shoulders to maintain original width.

This method would increase caster be a set amount and would also mean you have LH and RH trunions.
The spring would also sit on top of the trunion at an angle of 3 degrees, not sure if this would be an issue. 

Concept photo.
http://s574.photobucket.com/user/jbmustang/media/Javelin/IMG_1971_zpsfwes4uge.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">




Posted By: iapexl8r
Date Posted: Jul/06/2017 at 7:16pm
you could just bore the trunion to fit a sphereical bearing like what was stated earlier in thread. this would allow for more caster adjustment. you would have to also mod the lower control arm attach point to piviot like the one pictured earlier in the thread but that guy wont give up any info on it.Wink



Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jul/17/2017 at 1:32pm

I've abandon the trunnion!
Been working on something for a LONG time, check it out in the Product Announcements...

http://theamcforum.com/forum/new-1968-69-javelin-amx-rambler-suspension-upgrade_topic88551.html" rel="nofollow - http://theamcforum.com/forum/new-1968-69-javelin-amx-rambler-suspension-upgrade_topic88551.html







Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Aug/13/2017 at 7:50pm
My new front suspension has exceeded my expectations. Finally got to the AutoX track. This is my third autocross, ever, and my FIRST with this suspension. On the street it's better, on the track it's WAY better.
Last year at the Optima event in Kentucky I was struggling to get the front to stick.
All I've changed on the car was the front suspension, and went with 245-50/17 front tires.
I pasted the CAM class to get an idea of where I landed at the end of the day within the class. What was faster, and what wasn't.

It took a few runs to get use to the now more planted front with the back perhaps more loose than I'd like. I put together a great run on the last time out.
What a BLAST!




Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Aug/13/2017 at 7:59pm


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Aug/16/2017 at 9:46am
Here is a pic of the front tires sticking nicely, and the back tires NOT sticking. Whoaaaa.



Posted By: shootist
Date Posted: Aug/18/2017 at 12:43pm
Very cool! What track is that?

-------------


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Aug/18/2017 at 3:47pm
It's the motorplex track, inside the Road America facility.
I use to race on it back when I did Supermoto, so it was cool to be on it now in the car.
It's basically a carting track, but it's a bit more than that. Lots of elevation and some good, short, full throttle straights even in a car.



Posted By: Aljav
Date Posted: Oct/08/2017 at 12:49pm
What Size Rear tires do you have and rim size?

-------------
69 AMX 9.86 132 mph 71 JAV/AMX and 69 Javelin, .. NAMDRA member #1106


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Nov/14/2017 at 7:37am
I currently have 245/45-17's on all 4 corners. Rims are 17x8 with 4.5" backspace.
I want to try and go 275/40-17 out back, but that will require a 9.5" wide wheel that may be tricky, and I'd need to get new wheels.


Posted By: InRogue
Date Posted: Dec/13/2018 at 1:17pm
Cars looking good Wink

-------------
Always roll with the correct damper crown, a generous helping of flex tandems and a pocket full of brass fitting nickel slits.


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jun/03/2020 at 10:52pm
Dragging this up from way back. I've been SLOOOOWLY working on this for a couple years. Finally got to building and installing it.
New and Improved Lower control arms! Big smile
This is working out very nicely, I'm excited to drive the car with this new setup. The ONLY change I've made is the lower arm. I do want to increase the spring rate in the front of the car, but in the interest of science, I'm only going to change the lower control arms for now.





Posted By: InRogue
Date Posted: Jun/04/2020 at 3:13pm
I like it, keep us updated...

-------------
Always roll with the correct damper crown, a generous helping of flex tandems and a pocket full of brass fitting nickel slits.


Posted By: 6t8amxetc
Date Posted: Jun/07/2020 at 7:20pm
I will be very interested to hear how these perform also! I want them just cause they look impressive.
But, what are the advantages we may see with them?
What is the hex piece welded to the side of the round tube? Also, could you get the shock mount and the gusset laser cut from one piece? To not have the additional weld?
Looks awesome so far. Please keep us updated.
Thanks...Ty


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jun/08/2020 at 8:39am
It's a stronger,much more rigid replacement, and it has more adjustment available.
There are really 2 parts to this.
Strut Rod: I had replaced the strut rod bushing with the rod-end about 4 years ago, and despite the theory that this would cause some harshness, it did not. I also liked the ability to change the caster by simply spinning the strut rod. The stock strut rod has vary little adjustment.
Control arm: The lower control arm has the exact same pickup points as the stock part. However it has additional adjustment where the rod end attaches to the control arm. So you have more adjustment for camber and track width. It also uses a screw-in ball joint so I have the option to use the stock K719 ball joint, or the QA1 or Howe racing ball joints with a variety of lengths to change geometry.
The hex part is for the connection to the anti-sway bar.
With the suspension installed and no coil-over or sway bar in place, the suspension can be moved through the range of motion with two fingers. This allows the suspension to react much better than with tight bushing everywhere.
This is pretty much a prototype, I just used off the shelf tabs to start locating things, so all the brackets will be laser cut down the road.
Truth is I basically copied the suspension used on modern TA2 race cars.




Posted By: InRogue
Date Posted: Jun/08/2020 at 3:25pm
Well, just let us know when there available...not that there's anything wrong with mine. 






-------------
Always roll with the correct damper crown, a generous helping of flex tandems and a pocket full of brass fitting nickel slits.


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Sep/04/2020 at 10:02am
While this is not completely Pre-70 front suspension related, I thought I'd share some upgrades I've made to try and improve my overall balance. On my last autocross the back of the car could use a little more traction. 

For a decade now I've had the 17x8 (4.5 inches of backspace) Torque Thrust wheels with 245/40-17. The look and fit were excellent. I had been thinking I could go to a larger rear tire out back, but how much more, and how do I avoid spending big money on custom wheels?
Long story short, after much measuring and tire size chart research I was able to fit a 17x9.5 (5.560 inches of backspace) Torque Thrust II. Tire is a 275/40-17.

In order to get the two different styles of wheels to match I painted the centers black. this also gives it a bit of a different look which is nice to do once in a while.

I'm also going to increase the spring rate up front to a 500 lb spring on the coil-over, and see what that does. I've been very happy with the on-road manners of the 400 lb spring, and it works great on the track as well, but I think a heaver spring will reduce body roll and keep the front tire more flat when cornering.... We will see.





Posted By: mbwicz
Date Posted: Sep/04/2020 at 11:09am
Your car has a nice stance and those rear tires really fit well. What is your rear suspension setup? Is there clearance to the fender lip, or did you need to trim things?

Its amazing what happens when you have a car for a while and continue to improve it. Well done.

Mike

-------------
1970 AMX, one step forward, one step back. Both steps cost time and money.


Posted By: 4015spdJavAMX
Date Posted: Sep/05/2020 at 2:26pm
Love the stance, very nice work on the control arms.

What tire brand are you running and what is your front wheel and tire size?

Also, the panhard rod in the rear looks nicely packaged, can I ask where you got that from and what you think of it overall? Tried google searching Maien and Malen and struck out.


-------------
1972 Jav-AMX 401 4-speed....T56 next?
1970 AMX 390 auto, now 5-speed
1970 AMX 390 4-speed, stock


Posted By: AMoCoLite
Date Posted: Sep/05/2020 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by 4015spdJavAMX 4015spdJavAMX wrote:

Love the stance, very nice work on the control arms.

What tire brand are you running and what is your front wheel and tire size?

Also, the panhard rod in the rear looks nicely packaged, can I ask where you got that from and what you think of it overall? Tried google searching Maien and Malen and struck out.

I’m not familiar with 343’s build...but taking a shot in the dark...I’d try...Maier...as in Mike or Charles Maier...California fellas heavy into early Mustang suspension and body works.

Good luck!

Thumbs Up



Posted By: 4015spdJavAMX
Date Posted: Sep/05/2020 at 9:51pm
Thanks AMoCoLite, that is clearly correct.

That panhard bar setup with the integrated sway bar mounts along with their rear springs look pretty sweet, I don't know how the length of a Mustang spring compares to an AMX, but can certainly ask.

And they are right down the road, maybe I will have to go pay them a visit!

343SharpStick, did you just use the panhard bar setup or did you use more from their collection?


-------------
1972 Jav-AMX 401 4-speed....T56 next?
1970 AMX 390 auto, now 5-speed
1970 AMX 390 4-speed, stock


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Sep/06/2020 at 10:07am
I got my kit from Maier Racing years ago. The business changed a little and is now Mike Maier Inc.
https://mikemaierinc.com/product/mustang/mod1-front-suspension-package/" rel="nofollow - https://mikemaierinc.com/product/mustang/mod1-front-suspension-package/

I've followed his cars for a long time because he is a top level autocross competitor, and I built my car to also perform better than any other Javelin. Basically copy what's working for someone else.
I purchased my kit and had to completely cut it up, it was better than starting from scratch. But was still a bit of work. One of many differences is that a Mustang has space between the rear axle and the fuel tank. I am maintaining the stock tank so some compromises needed to be made in positioning the panhard bar. Another compromise made was the elimination of the staggered shocks. both shocks now mount to the front of the axle.

The Maier kit is a very clever design, the spring plate/panhard bar adjuster is excellent. I had to cut the front to accommodate the stock AMC shock mount.

His new design is a bit different than what I have. Actually my kit was very close to the Fairlane Kit he currently sells.
https://mikemaierinc.com/product/mustang/fairlane-panhard-rod-kit/" rel="nofollow - https://mikemaierinc.com/product/mustang/fairlane-panhard-rod-kit/

If you want to do what I have, I would recommend asking if you can purchase his kit with the chassis parts loose in the box.








Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Sep/06/2020 at 10:33am
Found my picture of the car up on the lift.
With the car at ride-height the bar is horizontal. This is an older picture, now I have a Moser9 rear axle with disc brakes and an aluminum third member.
I have the stock-style rubber bushings so the axle can move slightly right-left to work with the arc of the panhard bar without binding. In my opinion using poly bushings could potentially bind.

I hope this doesn't drive a debate weather panhard bars a good or bad, if you don't like it, do something better and beat me on the track Wink.

For tires I've been using the Falken Azenis RT615. Front is 245/45-17 and rear is 275/40-17. Both are 26-inch diameter.


Perhaps I should do a torque arm next...



Posted By: 4015spdJavAMX
Date Posted: Sep/08/2020 at 2:44am
343SS

Thanks for sharing your details, definitely some things to think about. I see you are not competing for space between the exhaust system and the panhard bar & mounting brackets, was that unworkable or you just decided to make it easier?

Can I ask what rim width and backspacing you are using on the front? My AMX is a '70, and I have control freak upper A-arms, so I'm thinking I can squeeze the 245-45-17 tires you are using in as well. Did you have to push the fender edges around any or roll any lips for clearance?


-------------
1972 Jav-AMX 401 4-speed....T56 next?
1970 AMX 390 auto, now 5-speed
1970 AMX 390 4-speed, stock


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Sep/08/2020 at 9:22am
My front tires are 17x8 with 4.5 inches of backspace, no fender modification needed. I have a 245-45-17 up front with no problems.
I had the side exhaust from day-1 with the car, it's just what I like. A full exhaust would be tricky but possible. I don't think an out-of-the-box system would work, you would need to do a custom system to get over the axle and out the back.



Posted By: 4015spdJavAMX
Date Posted: Sep/08/2020 at 12:25pm
343SS

Thanks for your feedback on the rim size and backspacing, so I was poking at the Tire Rack for these tire sizes, looks like their "rating system" suggests the Firestone FireHawk Indy 500 ranks the highest in this category of tires, so is there a particular reason you went with the Falken's? Are they better for autocross, or is there some subtle size difference that is important to the fitment or looks?


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1972 Jav-AMX 401 4-speed....T56 next?
1970 AMX 390 auto, now 5-speed
1970 AMX 390 4-speed, stock


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Sep/08/2020 at 1:42pm
I've been using the Falken Azenis RT615 mostly because it's what all the fast Optima Ultimate Street Car guys have been using for a few years now, and the prices are reasonable.
Both that series, and the rules for the CAM class in SCCA autocross dictate a 200 tread wear tire... Monkey see, Monkey do. LOL


Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Sep/13/2020 at 5:49pm


Another great day auto-crossing the car, its so much fun!Beer
I hadn't been able to get out there since 2018, so some cob-webs to clear out, but my times did get better and better through the day as I got my head properly dialed in. 4th in CAMT behind 3 "door-stop" Camaros with LS Power. (Those Cars were moved from CAMC to CAMT this year). I feel like if I were driving better I could have moved up to 3rd. The larger tires, and some changes I made to the brakes did help. I now have an adjustable brake proportioning valve, and I do need to dial in more rear brake too.




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