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Stroker 304 Project Build

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Topic: Stroker 304 Project Build
Posted By: amundaza
Subject: Stroker 304 Project Build
Date Posted: Jan/01/2009 at 9:21pm

Hey guys,

Finally staring a thread for the stroker 304 I'm building up for my '89 Grand Wagoneer, with a goal of getting 20-MPG out of the AMC V8 in a 4,500 lb. Jeep, with a decent increase in power over a stock AMC 304/360.  My 304 is being stroked with a 390 crank, aftermarket forged 401 rods and custom Diamond Racing forged pistons.  Net result is approx. 330 cubes and an engine that should put out 300+ HP (not that it matters for a Jeep, but torque should be great!).

 

I have researched various technologies for improving performance and MPGs and am implementing some of them in this build ... being a guinea pig, so to speak, for those that have shown some interest in them for their AMC builds, but didn't want to jump in head first.

 

Technologies being employed for engine build:

1) Higher Compression for increased efficiency
2) Cylinder Head Grooves to address detonation with increased compression
3) AMC-specific piston designed for better burn and power
4) Fish Carburetor ... known for an average of 30% more power & 20% more MPGs
5) Swirl Port head design
6) Unique cam design for minimizing overlap ... somewhat resembles a Miller-Cycle engine camshaft design (longer intake duration), which works well with the Fish Carb
7) Roller Rockers
8) Frantz oil filter ... won't make better MPG's or power, but will help keep the engine really clean inside.
 

Listed below are my build specs and a few of the technologies I am using.  I am also including pictures on this thread, as the build-up proceeds.

 

**** BUILD SPECS - 330" AMC V8 ****

BLOCK:  1979 AMC 304 V8 (milled for Zero-Deck)

  Bore : 3.83” (stock 304 is 3.75”)

 

CRANK: NOS AMC 390 Forged crank (cross-drilled)

  Stroke : 3.574” (stock AMC 401)

 

RODS: 5.858” long AMC 401 I-beam rods 1.001” bushing for floating pin

 

PISTONS: Custom forged Diamond Racing pistons (Special design for AMCs)

 Result in 9.8:1 compression with 58-cc heads

 

CAM: Crower Turbomaster Hydraulic flat tappet for AMC V8

  Advertised Intake Duration : 278

  Advertised Exhaust Duration : 260

  Intake Duration @ 0.050” lift : 212

  Exhaust Duration @ 0.050” lift : 200

  Intake Valve Lift w/1.6 Rocker Ratio : 0.461”

  Exhaust Valve Lift w/1.6 Rocker Ratio : 0.426”

  Lobe Separation : 114

 

LIFTERS:  Rhodes anti-pump up hydraulic lifters (variable duration)

  Low RPM = 190 PSI Cranking Pressure
  High RPM = 177 PSI cranking pressure
 

HEADS:  1979 AMC 360 heads. ~58cc Chambers

  Heads will incorporate combustion chamber grooves which allow use of 87 octane gas on 10:1 motors … may run E85 at some point

 

VALVES: Small Block Chevy conversion (w/undercut stems)

  INT:  1.94” diameter (stock AMC 304 is 1.787”)

  EXH:  1.50” diameter (stock AMC 304 is 1.406”)

 

ROCKER ARMS: Scorpion 1.6:1 Aluminum roller rockers for AMC V8 (Pedestal-mount setup … modified Ford Pedestal)

 

HEAD GASKET: ROL XTreme 0.045” compressed thickness 

 

INTAKE MANIFOLD: Offenhauser 360 Equa-flow intake for AMC V8 with Quadrajet pattern

 

CARBURETOR:  Brand new 2.0” bore Fish Carburetor (new limited production run) ...  ... very unique & rare carb ... out-performs any other carb in power and MPGs, and can switch between multiple fuels with only minutes of adjustment.  Carb has NO JETS.

 

EXHAUST: Doug Thorley Tri-Y Headers for Full Size Jeeps.  3.0” single exhaust.  Modified for Lambda O2 sensor port

 

TRANNY:  TF727 and a Jeep NP208 T-case (2.69 low range)

 

DIFFS:  3.31:1 Dana 44’s

 

TIRES:  31x10.5x15 BFG T/A’s

 
**** PICS ****
 
 
 
 
 
 


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor



Replies:
Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/01/2009 at 9:25pm

Guys,

Here are some pics of what the Fish carburetor looks like.  Don't be fooled by it being a one-barrel.

 
 
 
 


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/01/2009 at 9:30pm
Guys,
Here are pics of the head grooves I'll be doing on the heads.  Grooves are angled towards the exhaust valve side of the spark plug.
 





-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/09/2009 at 6:05pm
Hey guys,
We're still waiting on the cylinder heads to be completed, so the post is still in limbo land.

Also, I'm switching to the Holley Street Dominator intake, instead of the Offy 360 intake.

More information and pics to come in about a week.


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/13/2009 at 12:24pm

Hey guys,

Here are more pics of the build.  We should be doing more assembly on Saturday, so more pics to follow.
 







http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/?action=view&current=100_1470.jpg -


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/14/2009 at 7:59am
Hey guys,
Here are pics of the heads with the 1.94/1.50 SB Chevy valve conversion.
 













-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: Da-swede
Date Posted: Jan/14/2009 at 8:08am
Very nice project, whats up with the grooves in the heads?
Very strange 1b carb you got, never seen anything like it before.


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Humpsters gross me out


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/14/2009 at 8:20am

Thanks.  The groove in the head helps shoot the flame front into the quench area of the piston for a more complete burn.  It allows a 10:1 compression engine to run on 87 octane.  You can read up on it at the following links.

 

HEAD GROOVES:

 

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4069&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 - http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4069&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 – Racer forum discussion … I have chatted with Randy Naquin ( aka Automotive Breath ) on this forum and he has been modding a lot of heads with the grooves and good success in torque & MPG increases, along with decreased ping.  He gave me feedback on where to place the groove on the AMC heads, since we have the angled spark plugs.

 

http://somender-singh.com/content/view/119/49/ - http://somender-singh.com/content/view/119/49/ - Pics of grooved heads (from 2006)

 

http://somender-singh.com/ - http://somender-singh.com – Guy who stumbled onto it over in India

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss7slCT0Vpw - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss7slCT0Vpw – Youtube video of a guy grooving his 3000GT 4-valve head

 

Just food for thought, I am also wondering if the groove helps to promote a swirl in the combustion chamber during the compression stroke, as the piston forces air/fuel up into the chamber.

 

Yes, the Fish carburetor is a very strange beast … goes against a lot of conventional carburetor ideas.  The one pictured is a 1 5/8” bore Fish carb.  I’m also ordering a brand new 2.0” bore Fish carb.  Here are more links on the Fish

 

FISH CARB:

 

http://www.fireballroberts.com/Fish_Story.htm - http://www.fireballroberts.com/Fish_Story.htm - History of Fish

 

http://www.fireballroberts.com/Fish_Story.htm - http://www.fireballroberts.com/Fish_Story.htm - History of Fish in Racing

 

http://www.fireballroberts.com/Fish_Pictures.htm - http://www.fireballroberts.com/Fish_Pictures.htm - Pics of Fish Carbs

 

http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/NewFishProduction.htm - http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/NewFishProduction.htm - The New 2.0” Bore Fish Carb Reproduction ($850 for a carb … 100 being made)

 

http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/OrderFish.pdf - http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/OrderFish.pdf - Order form for 2.0” bore Fish Carb



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Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/21/2009 at 4:45am

Hey guys,

We worked on the build more on Saturday, pics are attached.

I modified the Offy 360 intake for use with the Fish carburetor, cutting the plenum devider down about 1.25" to help better divert the air flow, since the 1-barrel fish is positioned directly over the divider.
 
We also ran into some 'speed bumps' with parts that don't fit or don't fit without more modifications needed.  My new 8-qt oil pan didn't fit over the front/rear main caps, even with a little 'help' the bolt holes were off by 1/2 hole.  So we're going with an NOS Jeep oil pan that fits fine.
 
The Milodon head studs are too long on the exhaust side (3 places) and hit the header flanges.  The bolts for the head studs are too large in between the rocker pedestal embosses and a socket won't fit down in there.  It would require taking the heads off and grinding or milling the embosses for clearance.  I opted to order new ARP head BOLTS from Summit Racing.
 
We also checked the difference between the OEM timing cover from my 360 (circa 1995 manufacture by Mopar) and the new aftermarket Crown cover.  The Crown cover still has the distributor fitment issues, which requires some massaging of the cover to get a distributor to fully seat properly and mesh with the cam gear.  I'll get pics of that up later.  I'm going to run the OEM cover since it is in such good shape ... and my cam/dist. gears will appreciate the better fitment of OEM.
 
Also, I have pics of the ROL Xtreme 360-401 head gasket vs. the Felpro HiperBlue 304 gasket.  I'm going with the 304, since it better fits the bore diameter.  I'll end up with aboug 10.2:1 compression with it, as opposed to 9.95:1 with the ROL gasket.
 
I have also decided to NOT USE the Holley Street Dominator.  It's a great intake, but it looks like the smaller runner placement won't work well with the Swirl-Port head design.  So, I am going with the Offy 360 Q-jet intake.
 
Here are pics.
 



















-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/22/2009 at 7:49pm
Guys,
Here is a pic showing the comparison between stock head bolts and the ARP high-tensile strength set.
 


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/24/2009 at 9:17pm
Good evening all,
Today, Rick and I got more work done on the stroker.  Today, there were only minor 'speed bumps', some of which we were aware of previously.
 
I got the return line fitting installed in the NOS oil pan, for the Frantz Oil filter ( http://www.frantzoil.com - www.frantzoil.com   ... or http://www.wefilterit.com - www.wefilterit.com ).  You can see it in the photos.  I'll break the engine in on the stand without, but once I get it into the Grand Wagoneer, it will be installed.
 
Then, we got the NOS oil pan installed, with the stainless oil pan stud kit (from Ebay).  It was great, but they included 1 too many 5/16" nuts and 1 too few 1/4" nuts.  Thankfully, I had a few 5/16" studs/nuts from another misc. package of parts (14 year accumulation on this project) and nabbed a 1/4" nut to finish off the stud installation.  We installed the ROL performance oil pan gasket, which is comprised of a cork/rubber hybrid.  It's a nice piece and we sealed it up with plenty of silicone on both sides and plenty along the oil pan rails and around the front and rear of the cover at the rear main and front timing cover.
 
Rick also brazes a nut to the bottom of the oil pick up tube on his builds ... a trick to keep the pick up from sucking to the bottom of the oil pan.  Got that installed, which required removing the center main cap bolts/nuts and strap.  Then reinstalled and torqued them to spec.
 
Then I went over the block/pan with a nice coat of EN-66 AMC Metalic Blue paint.
 
Next, we got the heads installed with Felpro Hyperblue 304 gaskets and ARP BOLTS this time.  Even the ARP bolts are too long on the exhaust side.  Funny thing is, the head bolts in the rocker area are stock length, but the exhaust side are 1/8" longer ... both are supplied with ARP washers.  We ended up grinding 1/8" off the 6 bolts that wouldn't clear the header flanges, and installed them without the washers.  It's amazing how much aftermarket parts need massaging to get them to fit properly.  After the heads were installed, we went over them with EN-66 paint.
 
Then, while Rick was working on installing the Pro-products Harmonic Dampner, I was working on massaging the custom aluminum valve covers, so that they would clear the 4 cast embosses on the cylinder heads.  A die grinder cleared away the spots and we test-fit them in place.  Makes the stroker look like a BIG BLOCK ... think I'll have to get 396 emblems for it, LOL.  Rick even had some "Classic 550" emblems we joked about putting on the valve covers (I'll be using the "American 330" emblems).
 
Rick got most of the Rhodes Lifters installed and we then proceeded to begin test-fitting the Scorpion PEDESTAL MOUNT roller rockers for the 5/16" bridged-rocker heads.  They use a ford Pedestal-style rocker setup ... pretty slick for not needing to machine down the rocker pedestal embosses.  We will however, need to get longer than stock pushrods, which appear to be in the 8.200" range ... off to Ebay I go.
 
I also decided to paint the valve covers engine color, instead of clear-coating them.  The aluminum sheet metal, scratches easily, so I figured paint would help protect them a bit.  I scott-brighted them to scuff them up and then sprayed away.  Also painted the splash shield for the bottom of the intake, to help keep it clean inside the engine.
 
That's about it for now ... stay tuned for more progress ... next weekend.
 




 







 

 



 
















-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: whizkidder
Date Posted: Jan/24/2009 at 10:05pm
Looking good!  Are you going with stock manifolds or headers?  With the washers, the ARP head bolts are just a bit taller than the stock AMC Bolts.
 
I used ARP head bolts w/washers on my 390, and had to use my Dremel tool to clearance a small area on the underside of my log manifolds so that the front, center, and rear head bolts would clear the underside of the manifolds and allow them to clamp evenly.  (I didn't notice until I sprung an exhaust manifold leak, pulled a manifold, and noticed that the gasket wasn't even flattened on the bottom due to the taller ARP head bolt holding the manifold away from the head). 


-------------
Ron Frost
marne1ancient @ gmail.com
910 nine two two 0563

"There is no limit to what a man can do, so long as he does not care a straw who gets credit for it. Charles Montague


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/24/2009 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by whizkidder whizkidder wrote:

Looking good!  Are you going with stock manifolds or headers?
 
Hi Ron,
Thanks.  I am going to run http://www.bjsoffroad.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=650&cid=16 - Doug Thorley Try-Y headers , made specifically for the Full Size Jeeps.  I would have ground on my headers to clear the bolts heads/washers, BUT, they're currently being ceramic-coated and I don't want to grind away the coating to expose that are to rust.


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Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: Da-swede
Date Posted: Jan/25/2009 at 12:51am
Whats up with the valvecovers? , looks like they belong on
a Pro-stock race engine.


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Humpsters gross me out


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/25/2009 at 5:16am
Originally posted by Da-swede Da-swede wrote:

Whats up with the valvecovers? , looks like they belong on
a Pro-stock race engine.
.... uh ... they look cool, eh! 1)  I needed valve covers.  2) I needed valve covers that would clear roller rockers.  3)  These were sheet metal.  4) $140 shipped from Ebay
 
I was originally going to go with a set of polished Omix Ada covers, but, rollers don't clear under them.


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Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: Bosqueboy
Date Posted: Jan/28/2009 at 9:04pm
Very nice Greg, I enjoy watching your build.
Thanks for posting all the pics.
 
Doug


-------------
68 AMX

70 AMX

74 Javelin

87 Wagoneer

New Mexico, USA


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/28/2009 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by Bosqueboy Bosqueboy wrote:

Very nice Greg, I enjoy watching your build.
Thanks for posting all the pics.
 
Doug
 
You're most welcome, Doug.  Hopefully my extra long pushrods arrive in time for more building on Saturday ... almost done assembling!  Cheers!


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Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Feb/08/2009 at 4:59pm
IT LIVES AND BREATHES !!!!
 

Hey guys,

Just got an email from Rick that he got the stroker started on the break-in stand and has run about 1 gallon of gas through it so far.  More to come ....

 

 

--- On Sun, 2/8/09, Rick Jones  wrote:

From: Rick Jones

Subject: It runs...
To: amundaza@yahoo.com
Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 5:30 PM

No noticeable lope at 600 rpm.
Plenty-o-oil pressure.
Took the vibration damper off and reworked it to fit.
Took quite a few pictures.
Detailed report when I get back to work later tomorrow.


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Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: Da-swede
Date Posted: Feb/08/2009 at 5:41pm
congrats to the painfree startupSmile
a video would be nice.


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Humpsters gross me out


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Feb/08/2009 at 6:28pm
Thanks.  I'll have to get video on 2/21 when I go down to Rick's to finish getting everything buttoned up.  There are a few more things we need to do, before bringing it home.

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Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: PlazinJavelin
Date Posted: Feb/08/2009 at 7:00pm
That's looking great.  Thanks for sharing all the pics. Can't wait to see video. I've brought home a 304 I'll be working on after I get some other projects done this month. Ypur project's got me thinking on different ways to approach mine.

-------------
PlazinJavelin
Marlin Wannabe




Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Feb/09/2009 at 11:23am

Hey guys,

Here are picks that Rick sent me, from buttoning up the build on Saturday/Sunday.  These are of the Scorpion pedestal-mount Roller Rockers for the 5/16" bridged rocker heads.  They use FORD U-channels (and shims if needed) to align the rocker arms to the valves, instead of machining to install studs and guide plates. They required longer-than-stock pushrods to work correctly.
 









-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Feb/09/2009 at 11:27am

Here are pics of the intake installation and GM EOS (Engine Oil Supplement) used to break-in the cam with lot's of Zinc.  Used Shell Rotella T 15W40 for the break-in, mixed with the EOS.  Also, a pic of the aluminum sheet metal covers, where they will need to be clearanced for the pushrods.





 




-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Feb/09/2009 at 11:30am
Here are pics of the dip stick tube install and Rick's handy tool for getting it done correctly.
 





-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Feb/09/2009 at 11:39am

Here are pics of the Pro Products harmonic balancer, as compared to the OEM 304 AMC balancer.  The Power Pro is designed to be used on a 304, 360, or 390/401 with different bolt-on counter weights.  It can be used NEUTRAL, for an internally balanced engine like mine, by leaving the weights off.

The balancer would not fully seat on the 390 crank, due to the chamfer needing to be a bit bigger.  Rick had to massage it a bit.  See pics.




-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Feb/09/2009 at 11:40am
And finally ... here it is on the break-in stand!  Clap
 

 


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Feb/21/2009 at 9:29pm

Hey guys,

We did some more work today, before heading down to Maumee, OH for the http://www.IFSJA.org - www.IFSJA.org meet-n-greet at Zach's (Z&M Jeeps).

I had to cut away a little bit of the valve cover flange to clear the push rods, since the lip goes inboard on the fabbed aluminum covers.

We also started up the engine again on the starting stand, with the Carter AFB 625 4-bbl ... got some video of that I'll upload.

Also got a Fish carb installed (1 of 3).  The 1st one was the 1.650" bore Fish, which had float bowl problems and was shooting fuel out of the bowl vent tub.  So, we bolted up the 1.750" bore Fish and it was doing the same thing, even with really low fuel pressure (regulated from 0.50" - 4.00 PSI ... Fishes run best on low fuel pressure).

So, we pulled the float bowl off the 1.650" bore carb (first one shooting gas) and the float was crushed (see pic).   We tested the 1.750" by blowing air through it and couldn't get the needle to seat and stop air flow ... BUT ... the 1.850" bore fish float worked great, so we swapped that bowl on to the 1.650" bore carb and got it started up.

The 1.650" bore Fish was the carb that made 18 MPG on a Ford 390 in a F350 4x4 with a 4-speed and 3.73 gears.  Will be interesting to see what it does on the 330" stroker.  We set the RPMs at 2,000 and tested the Fish for lean/rich and it was running a bit rich ... remember, it was tuned for 60-CID more, so it will need to be fine-tuned a bit when we get it on the dyno.

Here are pics from today's work ... video to follow in separate posts.


















-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Feb/21/2009 at 9:41pm

Here is the 330" stroker on the starting stand, with a Carter AFB 625-cfm 4-bbl.  This will link over to my Photobucket Video page. 

http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/330%20-%20STARTING%20STAND%20CARTER%20AFB/?action=view&current=IM000668.flv">



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Feb/21/2009 at 9:47pm

Here is the 330" stroker on the starting stand, with the 1.650" bore FISH CARBURETOR.  This will link over to my Photobucket Video page.

http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/330%20-%20STARTING%20STAND%20FISH%20CARB/?action=view&current=IM000685.flv">

http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/330%20-%20STARTING%20STAND%20FISH%20CARB/?action=view&current=IM000686.flv">



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/03/2009 at 7:03pm

Hey guys,

Been a bit of a lull in the project while we await the dyno session in about 1.5 weeks.  Yesterday I finally picked up my headers from getting ceramic-coated ... and they look AWESOME!  I had both my set of Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers & pipes, as well as the Edelbrock TES headers & pipes ceramic-coated in a 2000-degree cast iron ceramic.  The guy that did them for me, is out of Oxford, Michigan and is friends with a couple of the Great Lakes Classic AMC Club (detroit area) members.  Chuck did an awesome job ... I was his guinea pig and it was well worth the wait to get them done.  Check out the pic I took today.



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/03/2009 at 7:31pm

So, I have been patiently awaiting the completion of the limited production run of 100 NEW 2.0" bore fish carbs ... I'm on the waiting list, but it's taken longer to get them done than was planned for.

Early last week, a few days after chatting with Mike Brown over at http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/ - www.mikebrownsolutions.com (New Fish Production site) about various Fish-related topics, including the crushed floats and an ETA on the new carbs being completed .... I get an email from a guy that had bought a 2.0" bore Fish carb years back, that it's for sale (Mike had referred me to him).  I ended up chatting with the fellow and am picking up his used Fish for a nice price (for him and me).  It had been on his International 345-V8 in a bus for a fairly short period, as the bus broke down and then got junked.

I'll be using this 2.0" bore Fish in the dyno runs ... should be interesting to see how it works out HP & Torque-wise, compared to the 625 Carter AFB.  This 2.0" bore Fish is big enough to feed 500 cubic inches of engine.

Here are some pics ....



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/11/2009 at 12:49pm
For those interested, we're going to the dyno on Saturday.  I'll have results afterwards to post up!

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Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: PHAT69AMX
Date Posted: Mar/11/2009 at 1:59pm
Interesting history on the Fish Carburetor from what was found on the web about it.
Dyno results will be interesting to see.
Guess your freind wasn't interested in sharing the spanner wrench dimensions ?


-------------


Link to a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MySiKQsmWxU" rel="nofollow - Short YouTube Burnout Video



Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/11/2009 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by PHAT69AMX PHAT69AMX wrote:

Interesting history on the Fish Carburetor from what was found on the web about it.
Dyno results will be interesting to see.
Guess your freind wasn't interested in sharing the spanner wrench dimensions ?
 
Yes, the Fish is interesting ... dyno results should be, too.
 
Rick marked up the spanner wrench dimensions on a sheet of paper and I'll get it on Saturday when I'm down there ... stay tuned! :)


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: iburnh2o
Date Posted: Mar/13/2009 at 10:54am
Great build! Did you work with Mike Brown on the cam specs? ONe of 'his' old grinds?
Those Fish carbs are great when you get a good one. Anxious to see how this project works out for you. It's been a few years since I had an AMC but looking for another. I've seen those grooves do some great things. IF you've researched them you probably run across the work of my bud, MPGMike?
 
kudos on the build
 


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/13/2009 at 11:37am
Originally posted by iburnh2o iburnh2o wrote:

Great build! Did you work with Mike Brown on the cam specs? ONe of 'his' old grinds?
Those Fish carbs are great when you get a good one. Anxious to see how this project works out for you. It's been a few years since I had an AMC but looking for another. I've seen those grooves do some great things. IF you've researched them you probably run across the work of my bud, MPGMike?
 
kudos on the build
 
 
 

I got the cam from Crower.  It’s an older grind of theirs for super-charged and turbo-charged engines, call the Turbomaster.  I did read about the “Miller Cycle” engines that Mike Brown’s buddy helped him build for the Fish carbs … Crower I believe, was one of the companies that ground the cams for Brown, back then, along with Comp or Crane.  Apparently Bruce Crower used to sell a cam & piston combo for the 16:1 Miller Cycle engines, like Mike Brown was running.  After reading up about this type of cam in the Fish Carb book, I decided to go with the Crower Turbomaster cam, as it was off-the-shelf and closest to what I “needed” to deal with the cylinder pressures … all the typical cams the cam companies were recommending had more duration and overlap (to deal with cylinder pressure & 10:1 comp) … but a lot of overlap negated the goal of MPGs.  Had I known more earlier on, I would have built the engine for 16:1 and got a full Miller cycle cam custom ground up to make 8:1 on the intake stroke and the 16:1 on the expansion/exhaust stroke … that would have been killer with E85!

 

I have a handful of the Fish carbs … really looking forward to see how the 2.0” bore carb runs on the dyno tomorrow, as compared to the Carter AFB Competition 4-bbl (baseline pulls with this carb).

 

So, you’re familiar with the head grooves, eh?  Care to elaborate more on them? J  I don’t know MPGMike … is he on the forums and what has he been doing to his engines?

 
Thanks for the kudos!


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: iburnh2o
Date Posted: Mar/13/2009 at 2:44pm
I remember 'the old days'. Hot Rod and others sold these cams to tame down the old high compression muscle cars as well. If I remember correctly Brown worked with Crane and they recently went out of business :(
Heck with E85 you could probably go even higher than 16:1...that setup worked with pump gas.
 
Assuming you've been to somenders site on the grooves? If so mpgmike aka Mike Holler has numerous posts. He is/was also admin on mpgresearch forum, writes for turbododge and is heading research on some expiremental fuel systems. I've known and worked with him off and on for several years now. He's gotten some radical results with the groovz and other technologies we've found. He also had developed a technique called Powre Lynz (spelled correctly..google it). Basically cutting threads on the intake ports.
 
If you are really interested in alternative engine building check out impulseengines and negative pressure supercharging. Thus far only building Mopar 318/360 combo unfortunately.
 
Gotta run...but I'd love to keep in touch and see how this project goes for you.
 
 
[/QUOTE]
 
 

I got the cam from Crower.  It’s an older grind of theirs for super-charged and turbo-charged engines, call the Turbomaster.  I did read about the “Miller Cycle” engines that Mike Brown’s buddy helped him build for the Fish carbs … Crower I believe, was one of the companies that ground the cams for Brown, back then, along with Comp or Crane.  Apparently Bruce Crower used to sell a cam & piston combo for the 16:1 Miller Cycle engines, like Mike Brown was running.  After reading up about this type of cam in the Fish Carb book, I decided to go with the Crower Turbomaster cam, as it was off-the-shelf and closest to what I “needed” to deal with the cylinder pressures … all the typical cams the cam companies were recommending had more duration and overlap (to deal with cylinder pressure & 10:1 comp) … but a lot of overlap negated the goal of MPGs.  Had I known more earlier on, I would have built the engine for 16:1 and got a full Miller cycle cam custom ground up to make 8:1 on the intake stroke and the 16:1 on the expansion/exhaust stroke … that would have been killer with E85!

 

I have a handful of the Fish carbs … really looking forward to see how the 2.0” bore carb runs on the dyno tomorrow, as compared to the Carter AFB Competition 4-bbl (baseline pulls with this carb).

 

So, you’re familiar with the head grooves, eh?  Care to elaborate more on them? J  I don’t know MPGMike … is he on the forums and what has he been doing to his engines?

 
Thanks for the kudos!
[/QUOTE]


Posted By: iburnh2o
Date Posted: Mar/13/2009 at 2:53pm
PS.  As for Fish carbs Rickard Ackerman had prototyped several variations including a 2 bbl progressive he called the Columbian. Might be an alternative to a 2" with smaller primary for idle/cruise and a secondary for power. I toured his small factory at one time with MPGMIKE. He had all kinds of variations including all bronze carbs. One had two floats and chambers to run two different fuels at once.(The fish carb book I had said something about running water in one side and used oil in the other as I recall?) Other options included altitude aneriod to lean out at high altitudes. Mixture adjustment from the dash and decel fuel shutoff. If anyone is interested he wants to retire and his tooling is for sale.


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/15/2009 at 6:30pm
Hey everyone,
It's been a SUPER LOOOOONG weekend, got home really late last night from the dyno sessions ... and just trying to stay awake today, LOL.  I'll post up the results, probably at lunchtime tomorrow.  Stay tuned .... thanks.


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/16/2009 at 7:57am

Well guys,

The stroker 304 lives, breathes and we did not blow it up on Saturday.  It was a super long day … in all there were about 18 hours of setup and tuning time for the engine, between Friday afternoon/evening and Saturday, when we did the pulls and swapped out parts. We had plenty of issues to deal with, which I guess can help others that would consider getting their engine dynoed.

 

We didn’t start dyno pulls on Saturday, until about 12:30 PM and concluded around 6:00 PM, then packed up everything.  In the 5.5 hours of time, we did a handful of pulls.

 

Baseline pulls were with the points distributor (@ 34-degrees advance) and the 625-cfm Carter Competition AFB 4-bbl.  With the Carter at idle we could get the A/F ratio set, but at 3,000+, it still would run between 15-16:1 A/F.  We did a few pulls from 3,000-4,000 and 3,000-5,200 and monitored the exhaust temps.  That made 260-HP @ 4600 RPM and 315-ft/lb @ 3600 RPM … all with it running lean.   Brian (dyno operator) commented that the engine was running really efficient with that lean A/F ratio, as BSFC for the pull was 0.39x.

 

Switching over to the AMC HEI was interesting.  We got it timed and it was mechanically advancing up to 34-degrees, but when you gassed it, it would continue climbing up to 60-degrees MECHANICALLY.  We ended up swapping out to a lighter spring rate to get it to “stop” climbing, but it would still jump around … not staying consistently around 34-degrees.  It would climb to about 40-degrees and then start dropping back down.  So, we set it at 30-degrees advanced and left the vacuum advance unhooked for the pulls.  I’ll be taking the distributor out and discussing a recurve with the mfg (he lives about 10 minutes from me).  With the HEI, the stroker made about 265-HP and 320-ft/lb torque with the lean AFB 4-bbl.  Concensus was that if we spent some time jetting the AFB, that the engine should make about 300-hp (and ~350 ft/lb).

 

What was really, really interesting, is the torque curve.  At 3,000 RPM it was@ 300-ft/lb. At 4,000 RPM it was @ 300-ft/lb … at 3,600 RPM it was at 320-ft/lb.  Not much of a curve there.  Carry it back on down towards idle and I am going to have PLENTY of low-end torque with this engine …. And it has a single plane intake on it (Offy 360).

 

After doing the pulls with the 4-bbl AFB and “OK” HEI, we swapped out to the big 2.0” bore Fish carburetor.  This took quite a while to get it running on the engine.  First, it wasn’t getting gas, then it took a while to get it tuned, so that it would run.  After we got it running and roughly adjusted, the A/F was pushing around 18:1.  When I got the carb (used), it had some varnish in the float bowl which I cleaned out.  We decided that it was possible that the fuel pickup possibly was partially clogged with varnish, even after enriching the WOT fuel enrichment (a screw which blocks or unblocks the hollow throttle shaft, determining the amount of total fuel flow).  So, we pulled the 2.0” Fish carb off without doing any dyno pulls.  I am going to tear it down and make sure the fuel pick up and throttle shaft are cleaned out.

 

We then switched to the smaller 1.65” bore Fish carb, which took some engineering to hook up the dyno throttle, since it is about 4” inboard from where the Holley linkages hook up.  Once we got that done, the 1.65” was up and running fairly quickly, since it already had been run on the engine break-in stand.  After getting it tuned according to the Fish manual, it was still showing a lean A/F mixture on the dyno controls.  So, we messed with it for a while.  While running “lean” it was not running high EGTs (exh. Temps), so we decided to do a couple quick pulls, while watching the EGTs.  IF they spiked, Brian was going to kill the ignition for the dyno.  The pulls went fine and the EGTs did NOT spike like he thought they would … that had him super-puzzled, since the A/F ratio was 17-18:1 at the time for a 3,000-4,000 RPM pull (400 RPM/sec increase).  So we pulled the hottest cylinder’s plug (#5) and he inspected it.  Upon pulling it, the plug immediately looked fine.  He looked at it under a scope and his response was that upon inspection, it appears to be running RICH.  So, the plug went back in and we adjusted the 1.65” Fish LEANER at mid-RPM (no WOT adjustment on this one) and did a 3,000-5,200 RPM pull.  That pull went fine, no crazy EGT’s (1,100-1,400 range for all).  What we did learn is that 1.65” bore Fish carb makes less HP and Torque than the Carter AFB.  Going from memory here, it was about 225-HP and 270-ft/lb of torque.  We still don’t know what the 2.0” Fish will do … which is supposed to be substantially more than the smaller Fish carb we did run.

 

Now that I have had a few days to mentally analyze all that occurred on Saturday, I want to find out what the EGT’s were for the Carter pulls, along with the Fish carbs.  Because the engine incorporates the cylinder head grooves (which run cooler) and Swirl-Port heads, I am wondering if the engine was in reality running highly efficient.  Both the head grooves and swirl-port technology are supposed to generate a much more complete burn.  IF this was occurring inside the stroker, that would account for the lower EGTs in the presence of the lean A/F mixture.  I am wondering if a more complete burn would result in a lean A/F READING, even if the motor was not necessarily “leaned” out.  I am going to contact the guys over at Endyn, who have pioneered the Swirl Port efforts, to see what kind of A/F ratios they are seeing on their dyno engines, as a result.  They have helped build engines ranging from NASCAR to import engines, with the swirl-port technology … their website is at http://www.theoldone.com/ - www.theoldone.com .

 

Saturday’s events were exciting and disappointing at the same time.  Some questions were answered and some were not.  Were I to do it all over again, I would readjust the Fish carbs, using the vacuum gauge, as recommended in the Fish Carb manual, NOT rely so much on the A/F monitors, and instead watch the EGTs with the Fish running.  Having run the 1.65” Fish last, at a LEAN reading and doing fine, I am wondering if the Big Fish might have been fine to run, also … if the EGTs were monitored and “performed fine”.  I did re-read up on the Fish and found that one guy who had it on his Dodge motor home, ran his at 18:1 A/F ratio … anything richer than that would foul out his plugs.  Since my Thorley headers have AIR injection ports on them, I think that I am going to install EGT sensors at those ports and use that data for tuning the engine with a Fish Carburetor, once I have the Jeep up and running.  I also have an O2 sensor port in the Y-pipe collector, which I’ll use as SUPLEMENTAL data for tuning … and I’ll adjust the FISH like the manual says, and not like a typical carb is supposed to be done.

 

So, all in all, I am  a bit sad that the engine did not hit the baseline of 300-hp that I would have liked.  I was pleased to hear Brian say that he thinks it would make 300-hp with the right tuning on the AFB carb.  It would also have made more power with a BIGGER cam, but that would have negated one of the goals of economy.  I am pleased with the torque curve … it will be perfect for a big Jeep.  And finally, it will be real interesting to see how this engine performs in real-world driving.

 

Pics and video will be up later!



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/16/2009 at 8:55am

Hey guys,

Just got a response back from Endyn on the Swirl Port heads and the A/F ratios they saw with the 2-valve cylinder heads.  These are the guys that helped Bill Elliot's team, among others.  My questions way below in Purple and their response in Green.
 
Greg :)
 

From: Staff@theoldone.com <staff@theoldone.com>
Subject: Re: Question on Swirl-Port and A/F ratios (was : AMC Stroker 304 back from the Dyno)
To: amundaza@yahoo.com
Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 10:29 AM

We were running BSFC's lower than .34 with race engines some 24 years ago with EGT's in the 900° range (measured .5 x pipe diameter from the port flange).

As long as you're not seeing detonation, or extreme temps on the exhaust side you can continue to run leaner and leaner. Of course, A/F ratio's will "freak out" those with conventional wisdom. As i recall the lowest A/F numbers we saw with 2-valve engines were in the 24-1 range at light throttle and light load conditions. 18-1 was common under load (with good atomization). Be aware that once you go far enough below stoic, the EGT's will begin heading downward.

You might want to include something like an MSD Knock Alert to your dyno instrumentation, so you can "see" detonation that's not audible should it occur.

Larry

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: mailto:amundaza@yahoo.com - To: mailto:staff@theoldone.com - Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:11 AM

Subject: Question on Swirl-Port and A/F ratios (was : AMC Stroker 304 back from the Dyno)

 

Hi guys,

I happened upon your website a while back via a Car Craft forum posting about your swirl-port heads.  We just finished dynoing my AMC V8, using AMC V8 swirl port heads, along with cylinder head grooves and custom pistons.  You can read about my dyno sessions below, as well as the engine build threads (listed way below) with pics, etc.

 

The reason I am emailing you is to ask you about the A/F ratios you see on your engines utilizing the Swirl Port technology.  My engine seemed to run normal EGTs, with lean A/F ratios and lower BSFC readings (0.39x for the Carter AFB running lean).  When we were tuning everything, the operators were trying to tune for richer than 14.7:1 A/F, which we could get at idle, but from 3,000 RPM on, everything would show a lean condition, but the EGTs were not abnormal ... I still need to get the AFB (baseline) EGTs for comparison to the FISH carb EGTs.

 

What kind of A/F ratios are you seeing with your modified swirl-port engines?  Thanks for the feedback.

Sincerely,
Greg Taylor :) <><

Rochester Hills, MI

1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer "TRMN8R2"

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=95564 -  



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/16/2009 at 4:51pm

Here are pics from Saturday's dyno run.



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/16/2009 at 4:54pm
Here are videos from Saturday's runs.
 
http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/Dyno%20Video/?action=view&current=IM000753.flv">

http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/Dyno%20Video/?action=view&current=IM000754.flv">

http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/Dyno%20Video/?action=view&current=IM000757.flv">

http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/Dyno%20Video/?action=view&current=IM000758.flv">

http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/Dyno%20Video/?action=view&current=IM000763.flv">


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Apr/08/2009 at 12:08pm

Baseline pulls with a points distributor 34* advance and a 625-cfm Carter AFB 4-bbl

 


 



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Apr/08/2009 at 12:17pm

HEI distributor 34* advance with 625-cfm Carter AFB 4-bbl

 



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Apr/08/2009 at 12:26pm

HEI distributor 32* advance with 625-cfm Carter AFB 4-bbl



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Apr/08/2009 at 12:30pm

HEI distributor 30* advance with 625-cfm Carter AFB 4-bbl



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Apr/08/2009 at 12:35pm

HEI distributor 30* advance with small 1.65" bore FISH CARB



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: Buzzman72
Date Posted: Sep/16/2009 at 4:43pm
So...would you call the project a success?

-------------
Buzzman72...void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, and alcohol may intensify any side effects.


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Sep/16/2009 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by Buzzman72 Buzzman72 wrote:

So...would you call the project a success?
 
 
I don't know yet, as I don't have the engine in the Jeep yet.  I am just finishing up a 10x12 shed project, so that I can clear the "extra" stuff out of my garage and get back to finishing the Grand Wagoneer.  I plan to get back on it next week, as all I have left to do is shingle the shed and move the stuff this weekend.
 
Stay tuned, it's been a long summer :)


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: Buzzman72
Date Posted: Sep/17/2009 at 7:11am
I've got a 304 that will most likely be the first engine in my '52 International pickup rod project, so I'm curious to see how the stroker 304 turns out for you...if I can do it affordably. I might save that 360 shortblock and set of Machine heads for something else.  I'm looking for an engine with a decent low and midrange torque curve, and the flatter the torque curve the better.

-------------
Buzzman72...void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, and alcohol may intensify any side effects.


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Oct/06/2009 at 9:35am
Hey guys,
Just an update. I'm back in the garage and getting back into the project. My dad and I organized the garage some on Saturday and pulled the front clip off the Wagoneer in preparation for swapping in the engine and tranny.
 
On Sunday, I picke up a NV3550 5-speed, from a 2000 TJ Wrangler, to put behind the stroker. It has a 4.0 first gear and 0.78 OD 5th gear.  I'll be running this with 4.56 geared axles.  Overall, the final drive ratio with 33" tires will be identical to 31" tires and the stock 3.31 axles in 1:1 3rd gear (of the 727 combo).
 
Here's some pics ...
 
BEFORE CLEAN-UP Thumbs Down
 

 
AFTER CLEAN-UP Thumbs Up
 
 
 
FRONT CLIP REMOVED
 

 
NV3550 5-SPEED SETUP ... WITH MY NP208 T-CASE SLID ONTO FOR CHECKING FITMENT
 








-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/29/2010 at 10:46am

Hey guys,

Been slow on getting the GW project done ... I have been working on the http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=110514 - powdercoating oven build , while the weather is *COLD* here in Michigan ... 11-degrees this AM!

I am swapping out the original fabricated valve covers on the Stroker build, since it's going to be difficult to run the Nology Hotwires with these top-bolt covers, since each of the Nology wires have a grounding strap that needs to be bolted to the valve cover bolts.  Recessed bolts make it a impossiblee to do that.

So, off with the cool looking top-bolt covers and on with another set of cool looking bottom-bolt covers.  The new covers are polished aluminum, which I will shoot with a clear-coat powder with a metal flake additive, for a cool sparkle effect.

The original valve covers I am going to powdercoat and sell.  I might even coat them to match an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold I am going to sell ... if anyone is interested in a matching package.

Here are pics of the new covers, which are nearly the same size as the old ones.  Just slightly narrower in width.

 





-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jan/31/2010 at 4:40pm

Here's a few pics for those of you that like to drool!   




-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/02/2010 at 2:44pm
Here's what I scored at the Z&M Jeeps Meet-n-greet last weekend in Toledo, when all of us Full Size Jeep guys got together ... this 33-gallon Aerotank will help to fuel the stroker!
 
http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD%20PT6/?action=view&current=100_1603.jpg">

http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD%20PT6/?action=view&current=100_1604.jpg">

http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD%20PT6/?action=view&current=100_1606.jpg">


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amcrules00
Date Posted: Mar/02/2010 at 5:23pm
The new valve covers are badass, haven't seen 'em before. Where'd they come from? Thumbs Up


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/02/2010 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by amcrules00 amcrules00 wrote:

The new valve covers are badass, haven't seen 'em before. Where'd they come from? Thumbs Up
 
Got them on eBay ... they are from Hot Zone Performance.  I don't see any listed on Ebay currently ... you can get them from their website at http://www.cfrperformance.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=amc - http://www.cfrperformance.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=amc  ... you can order them with or without the top ribs ($20 difference).


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amcrules00
Date Posted: Mar/02/2010 at 7:25pm

They look awesome Greg, as does your motor project. Thanks for sharing the contact info too.



Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/02/2010 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by amcrules00 amcrules00 wrote:

They look awesome Greg, as does your motor project. Thanks for sharing the contact info too.

 
 
You're most welcome ... thanks for the kudos. Thumbs Up


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/05/2010 at 10:04am

Here's pics of the aluminum Ebay 3-core radiator that just arrived via Fedex.  This thing is SWEET!  0

http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD%20PT6/?action=view&current=100_1631.jpg">   http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD%20PT6/?action=view&current=100_1632.jpg">   http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD%20PT6/?action=view&current=100_1633.jpg">   http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD%20PT6/?action=view&current=100_1634.jpg">   http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD/330%20AMC%20STROKER%20BUILD%20PT6/?action=view&current=100_1635.jpg">



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: DocCreer
Date Posted: Apr/06/2010 at 5:53pm
have you got it in yet?

-------------
61 American
82 eagle limited


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Apr/06/2010 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by DocCreer DocCreer wrote:

have you got it in yet?
 
 
No, not yet.  I was off the project over the winter, while I built a 2x3x6 powdercoating oven.  Now that it is done and functional, I'm getting back on the Jeep project.
 
I am about 95% of the way into a body bushing replacement, with a body lift ... and am thinking of pulling the body off the frame and getting the frame blasted, primered and painted.  Local shop that does my HD blasting will do it all for about $250.  Once I get that done and back home, then I'll work on getting the engine/trans onto the frame.
 
Stay tuned ...


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: May/28/2010 at 9:31am

Hey guys,

I just recently picked up a really nice, nearly new Howell EFI setup.  I will be installing it on the Jeep, so that I can get a really good comparison between TBI injection and the Fish carburetors (I'm still waiting for the 2.0" bore production unit to be completed).

The Howell setup was originally programmed for an AMC 343 V8, so it should be really close in specs to my 330" stroker. 13-cid apart is the biggest difference.  Both the 343 and 330 are about 10.25:1 compression, and the cams are really close in spec.  It should be interesting to try this out.

Here are a couple of shots of it, sitting a top the RPM Airgap intake I'll be putting on the stroker.


 



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jul/10/2010 at 9:01pm

I just got back from a 145 mile round trip to pick up some really HD STEEL saw horses I found on Craigslist this afternoon.  $60 for all three and they each weigh 100+ lbs.  Seller used them for building BIG trailers.  I was only able to fit 2 into my Focus wagon, for $50 ... still a steal, even including the drive time/money. 

I'll be using these to support the Wagoneer body on, while I clean & paint the frame. 

 

I also got my rear 6" lift springs powdercoated at home today.  Even though they will fit in my 2x3x6 home oven ... I am having second thoughts about powdercoating any springs for others ... they're just waaaaaay too heavy to "gracefully" manuever inside the oven and hang them up ... guess that I need Hanz and Franz from SNL to get me pumped up!
 

 
 



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jul/11/2010 at 7:26am

I just extracted the 2 steel saw horses from the back of my Ford Focus.  Here is a better pic of them.  They should work out GREAT.

They are 60" wide on the top, 30.5" tall and 22" at the base.  Everything appears to either 5/16" or 3/8" thick 2.5" angle iron ... these won't be going anywhere, once the Jeep body is on them.



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amcrules00
Date Posted: Jul/11/2010 at 8:16am
Looks to me like you're in the process of building a great little shop there as well. Thumbs Up


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jul/11/2010 at 8:20am
Originally posted by amcrules00 amcrules00 wrote:

Looks to me like you're in the process of building a great little shop there as well. Thumbs Up
 
Thanks ... I'm getting there.  I'm planning to gut the majority of "stuff" this afternoon and put it on the lawn/driveway, so that I can re-organize it all.


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jul/19/2010 at 9:47pm

Tonight I pulled the stock front end and 3" RC lift out from under the frame.  Springs are going to another FSJer on the forum and the new-to-me 6" springs are going under (after I paint or powdercoat the frame ... at home).  

Here are a few pics of the carnage tonight. 





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Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Jul/21/2010 at 10:43pm

Yesterday I got the rear shocks pulled off, along with the 2" lift blocks.  Reinstalled the front U-bolt temporarily on the rear, to roll the frame out.  Now the back has major wagon-sag from where it sat ... for now! 0

Front 3" RC springs, shocks and 2" and 3" lift blocks now have a new home with another forum member from IFSJA.org 



-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: 72Javelin
Date Posted: Feb/11/2011 at 10:27am
Progress on this?

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Jeff Reeves
Auburn, GA
AMO Technical Editor

Currently AMC-less after 30+ years


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Feb/11/2011 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by 72Javelin 72Javelin wrote:

Progress on this?
 
None this winter ... it's just been too stinkin' cold here in Michigan to work on it.  With temps starting to come back up over the next few weeks, I hope to be back into in by Mid-March.  I'll post up more progress reports after that.


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: JavelinRob
Date Posted: Feb/11/2011 at 6:57pm
I here yah on the cold , I live in Ontario near Toronto been friggin freezing cold winter hopefully it warms up in early march , I have a ton of bodywork too do , I managed to get most of the mechanical done on my car wearing my insulated coveralls  and a small heater going

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1970 sst 421 shivvy
1970 amx 390 4spd go pack


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Mar/17/2012 at 7:45pm

Work & school is finally slowing down to the point where I can get back into the project. Tonight I powdercoated up an Offy Dual Port intake, for starting out on the engine, as well as a set of the AMC Legend valve covers, from http://www.bulltear.com/" rel="nofollow -

Since this is a TRANSPARENT TEAL, I first put down a basecoat of extreme chrome, cured for 10 minutes, then put down the top coat of teal and cured for another 10 minutes.




-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: bigdee2
Date Posted: Jul/02/2012 at 10:00am
My scorpion kit did not come with the guide plates - where did you get yours?  Also, do you remember about how long the push rods needed to be for these rockers?  Both ends - are balls I assume?


Posted By: dbomb
Date Posted: Dec/07/2012 at 8:22pm
so how did this hold up long term did you see the 20mpg you were targeting? doyou think the detonation grooves helped . could you run more lead and more total timing without hammering the bearings out how was the driveability was it a screamer or a stump puller . i know this is an old thread but iots got alot of  interesting content.

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rebuiling 73 amx need parts


Posted By: Wesdog
Date Posted: Jan/26/2013 at 9:43pm
Very interesting thread! I am interested in building a 304 stroker also. I am also a former FISH carb dealer/installer from the 1980's and still have 4 or 5 old FISH carbs including two 700cfm 2" models. I used to use the 700cfm carb on the 401 in my 76 Cherokee for many years - worked great in a FSJ. Even passed emissions testing with it in Los Angeles. One thing I noticed was you were using an aluminum adapter. Brown switched to a non-metalic adapter for heat isolation so as not to boil the fuel out of the float bowl following engine shutoff. Anyway, I'd like to pick your brain on 304 stroker design in the future, you obviously did your homework. I started a new thread today on the subject before I found this one.

Wes


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76' Cherokee S Chief W/T 401/TH400/QT/D60FF/Rancho
77' Cherokee 360/T18A/D20/SoA/Full Cage
75' CJ5 304/T15/D20/Rancho
75' CJ5 401/TF727/D300/Rancho (project)


Posted By: amundaza
Date Posted: Feb/08/2013 at 5:54pm
Hey Wes,
Nice to see you're considering a 304 stroker and that you're a Fish Carb Fan.  I shot you a PM on http://www.ifsja.org" rel="nofollow - www.ifsja.org so that you could give me a call over the weekend.


-------------
Sincerely,

Greg Taylor


Posted By: Oldskool86wagon
Date Posted: Jul/14/2014 at 11:09pm
Hey Greg,

I already have the 1.6 Scorpion rockers, but took your advice from this post and bought the Ford U-channels to keep them aligned. With the U-channels, it raises the rocker just out of reach of the pushrod. I used a pushrod checker with my setup and am getting an 8-7/32" (8.21875) overall length. Does this length sound familiar to the pushrods you used with your setup? and which brand did you go with?

Thanks!



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