Sandin vs. York and hose fitment
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Category: The Garage
Forum Name: HVAC
Forum Description: air conditioning, heater and associated controls
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80039
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Topic: Sandin vs. York and hose fitment
Posted By: dogbone
Subject: Sandin vs. York and hose fitment
Date Posted: Jun/02/2016 at 4:37pm
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I'm working toward reactivating the AC on my 64 wagon. The compressor needs to be replaced and I'm sure the dryer will need to be reworked or replaced. I've read tons of threads here and elsewhere on getting this going. My question is if I go with a Sandin replacement will I be able to use the existing hoses? They seem to be in good condition, but I'm not sure if they will mount up to the Sandin properly. I plan on keeping it with R12 if at all possible. For those of you who have installed the Sandin did you also swap out the hoses as well? ------------- 64 Cross Country Wagon 770, 79 VW Scirocco, 70 Porsche 914-6, 82 Subaru Brat, 1991 Autozam |
Replies:
Posted By: Pdok
Date Posted: Jun/02/2016 at 9:18pm
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I'm having the same issue. I switched to the Sanden-style when I did my head swap, and the Jeep donor fittings are completely different so I'm looking for the right solution. What I've found is that there are many variations of the head plate with the fittings on a Sanden. I think what I'm looking for is a tube-O style, which should fit the york valves (also tube-o at the compressor). Flare fittings on the OEM hoses. I have to say, though, I'm not a tube-o fan at all. They leaked on me at the fitting quite a bit with new valves and seals. Another option I saw, which might also work, is to buy new service valves that fit whatever style sanden head ports you have, and adapt them to the flare fittings on your hoses. The reason I'm not immediately crimping new fittings on my old hoses is simply the cost of having a shop do the work. The old hoses will "probably" be fine with R134, if you decide to switch. I haven't decided yet, but I'll suggest a PAG oil. A PAG-46 is low viscosity enough for R12 to circulate it around. You can always stick with mineral oil, too. After all my work, I think I'm going to have someone nitrogen pressure check for me this time. Absolutely refit the dryer!! you can't warranty the compressor without a new drier most of the time anyway. On my Gremlin, the APD "exact" part did not fit at all, and I ended up sending my old drier to the AC place in FL for them to cut it open and redo it. Much happier although it was 2x what the part store version costs (that didn't fit anyway so who cares how cheap, right?) Two things, I would not recommend a china-made off brand compressor. And I'd recommend the larger pump capacity on your choice of Sanden. ------------- 76 Grem X 258/904,4.0 head/MPFI, Comp X250H cam, Hughes springs, Clifford header, serpentine swap. |
Posted By: dogbone
Date Posted: Jun/02/2016 at 9:31pm
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good info, maybe it would just be easier to get a York off of rockauto. They are about $225 and should mate right up. I was going to vacuum mine down and see how well it holds and if it looks pretty good then pressure it up with some argon and let it set for a day or two. I've got several cans of r12, but don't want to charge it up unless I'm pretty sure it's leak free. ------------- 64 Cross Country Wagon 770, 79 VW Scirocco, 70 Porsche 914-6, 82 Subaru Brat, 1991 Autozam |
Posted By: dogbone
Date Posted: Jun/02/2016 at 9:39pm
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is this what you're needing to get the hoses to fit? http://www.ebay.com/itm/YORK-TECUMSEH-SANDEN-1-X14-TUBE-O-COMPRESSOR-FITTING-W-16MM-SERV-PORT-8-O-RING-/311288854857" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/YORK-TECUMSEH-SANDEN-1-X14-TUBE-O-COMPRESSOR-FITTING-W-16MM-SERV-PORT-8-O-RING-/311288854857
------------- 64 Cross Country Wagon 770, 79 VW Scirocco, 70 Porsche 914-6, 82 Subaru Brat, 1991 Autozam |
Posted By: Pdok
Date Posted: Jun/03/2016 at 7:29am
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In order to fit the oem hoses it will need flare fittings. I'm not sure what your year had but I prefer o ring if I'm going to switch. Flare is OK if not over torqued or distorted. I just figure there's a reason they aren't on automotive applications any more. There's a ton of options for the fittings on the compressor. I've got a nearly brand new York on the floor of my garage just pulled it to do my swap. CCI is the brand you want for a York style, lots of knock offs out there. They do rob power more than the sanden and they're noisier. But there's no shortage of them and they are super durable. They're all over the commercial vehicle world. ------------- 76 Grem X 258/904,4.0 head/MPFI, Comp X250H cam, Hughes springs, Clifford header, serpentine swap. |
Posted By: dogbone
Date Posted: Jun/03/2016 at 8:59am
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I think the one at Rockauto is a four seasons. My 79 Volkswagen has one and when it comes on its like loosing two cylinders especially if you're going up a hill. But it would freeze you out. I guess there are two issues. One, just attaching the old hoses. As you mention the fittings are different. Two, the location of the fittings on the new compressor may mean the hose won't physically reach to the right spot to be attached. The adapters in the post above look like they would make it work, but you'd just about have to have all the components on hand to see. ------------- 64 Cross Country Wagon 770, 79 VW Scirocco, 70 Porsche 914-6, 82 Subaru Brat, 1991 Autozam |
Posted By: Pdok
Date Posted: Jun/03/2016 at 11:28am
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Precisely the problem, so I'll probably end up at a shop cutting and crimping my hoses or replacing them. ------------- 76 Grem X 258/904,4.0 head/MPFI, Comp X250H cam, Hughes springs, Clifford header, serpentine swap. |
Posted By: White70JavelinSST
Date Posted: Jun/07/2016 at 11:56am
IIRC, R134a is a smaller molecule than Freon. I have been reading that the old hoses cannot contain R-134a. A "barrier" hose is needed if you don't want the refrigerant to leak away. Regardless, aren't the original hoses cracked/deteriorated/oil soaked anyway? O-Ring is the only way to go. Convert as many of the connections as possible if you can. ------------- 70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972 |
Pdok wrote:Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Jun/07/2016 at 3:07pm
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Yes, the old hoses don't have barrier protection. In actual use there seems to be little to no problem as over the years the minute quantity of oil that circulates has coated and plugged the pores/holes. I've hear quite a few people say that all they did was swap in a new dryer and compressor and go. I'd replace what is accessible. Any that are buried under the dash would get left until I actually had a problem.
------------- Wrambler 69 AMC Rambler 4.0L, 5 speed 2015 Grand Cherokee Limited 2019 Chrysler 300 |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Oct/10/2016 at 7:20am
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I'd replace 50 year old hoses regardless of how they look, especially the high pressure side. 300 psi popping a hose under the hood isn't pretty... AC oil every where. The York compressor is reliable but heavy and takes more power to drive than a Sanden unit. If this is a driver use the Sanden. You can have hoses made with flare ends for the original evaporator under the dash and o-ring fittings for the compressor and a universal drier. That's what I did. You might want to go ahead and change the expansion valve for one calibrated for R-134a, but I'm still using the original with no issues. It's something I would have changed had I thought about it back when I put the AC in operation though. I don't know if it would make a difference or not, but it's easier to change it now before the system is charged. Advance Auto Parts site says the part number is 38683 and it's under $15. If I'd have checked the price before charging mine it would have been replaced!! ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: Pdok
Date Posted: Oct/10/2016 at 8:10am
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A couple things. Agreed on the hoses, but mine are only 40-years old...! So I've got another 10 years before I have to worry about it... kidding of course. That part number from Advance Auto for the r134 expansion valve has this review: 1.0 This valve WILL NOT work on the Jeep AC By Eddy from Wilmington, NC About MeMechanic PROS
CONS BEST USES
Comments about Factory Air Expansion Valve: This is advertised to work with a Jeep as an OEM replacement. It will not. It does not have the equalizing tube. Also, Jeep Air has a few Sanden compressors with tube-o fittings on the back plate, some designed for CJ retrofit that might be close enough. With a York to Sanden adapter plate, you can probably make it work. I'd call them. ------------- 76 Grem X 258/904,4.0 head/MPFI, Comp X250H cam, Hughes springs, Clifford header, serpentine swap. |
Posted By: White70JavelinSST
Date Posted: Oct/10/2016 at 12:54pm
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Farna has a great response. I''l add that if it were mine I'd do the same thing as I did on the White70Javelin. I had brass flare fittings machined to become o-ring fittings and I made a male o-ring fitting from multiple layers of soft copper silver soldered together, sandblasted them and had them machined into an o-ring fitting. I attached these to the evap coil by silver solder. All the AC connections are o-ring now. NO LEAKS. It was tested at 150 psi with dry nitrogen for 8 months.. Search for my posts on AC going into the White70. ------------- 70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972 |
Posted By: uncljohn
Date Posted: Oct/10/2016 at 1:43pm
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As to 134 vs R12, Freon became dear in Phoenix in the early 2000's so when I got around to dealing with my AMC A/C I just filled them with R 134 and forgot about them. Why Because a junker in Arizona isn't worth scrap value if the A/C isn't working and an A/C specialist I was working with at the time said it is no problem. So all I can say is that is all I have done. I have sold everything except my Spirit which was filled with 134 in 2002 and no problems over the last 11 years, the two cars I am putting on the road will be R134 when done. I see no reason at all to continue using Freon. R134 seems to work better than Freon when the temperature gets over 100 degrees. ------------- 70 390 5spd Donohue 74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Oct/10/2016 at 2:20pm
That is one post that covers alot, and IMO is done when your system needs more than just serviced, or is an upgrade. Ucljohn is correct about no reason to move to freon. Though freon does cool better but I think it is on how the system is routed and its function. Our newer Honda, you must mess with the auto climate every time you start A/C. Reasons are, automatic blend of external air with cabin air, and it does not kick in full until you jack up the cooling to max. Once it cools, then set auto to prefered temp. Our 2000 Solara cools perfectly in dry or humid conditions, in automatic mode. For the kicker... my old 1995 chevy van had manual temp A/C and was the coldest of the three. ------------- 71 Javelin SST body 390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |