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Hunter---69 AMX

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Topic: Hunter---69 AMX
Posted By: pacerman
Subject: Hunter---69 AMX
Date Posted: Mar/24/2016 at 6:14pm
Ok since my buddy and I pulled the car cover off of my long-stored 69 AMX this week, it got the juices flowing and I will be bringing it back into use later this summer.  At least that is the plan at this point. This post is sort of a baseline report.  I purchased the car in 1999 in Orange County, CA.  It was last licensed in 1978 and had been used for some drag racing prior to purchase by the previous owner.  It came to me as shown with no engine or transmission.  It is a factory 343 four-speed car, Hunter Green (hence the name).  It has black/charcoal leather seats.  The drag racing owner was from Turlock, CA and had raced it with a 455 Olds and turbo 400 transmission in it.  I was able to track him down using records supplied with the car and he said with that engine/tranny combo the car was not much fun to drive on the street. 

The pics show it's current condition with the few warts that it has.  I plan to replace the underhood wiring harness (which was pretty badly hacked for the olds motor), replace the drive train, get the seats recovered with new Legendary leather covers, clean up the body but try save as much of the original paint as possible, and push out some of the dents, replace the brakes and drive it.  I have a 69 390 from another AMX.  The car has a Mopar 8 3/4 rear axle in it and I might keep that, but I do have an AMC 20 rear end I can install. 

The car will need new silver stripes (which I have) but I am nervous about removing the old stripes without damaging the paint.  The car has Sieberling brand tires on it and that company was bought out by Goodyear I think in the early 70s, so yes I will be buying tires.

I need to debug Gizmo the Gremlin and finish the IRWIPI project rambler before I will do much with Hunter, but I did order a new MH Electric wiring harness today.  Seats are next.  I will have lots of questions because frankly I have not paid much attention to all the V8 threads here on the forum in the past.

Pics follow:





















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Happiness is making something out of nothing.



Replies:
Posted By: 69BBB3904spAMX
Date Posted: Mar/24/2016 at 9:33pm
Smile Cool Joe! I know where you got the NOS silver stripes...

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37 Ford Tudor 60 hp V8 flathead, all original, never restored
69BBB3904spAMX
70 Camaro 1st car
74 Hornet Hatch 6 cyl floor/auto
2007,2008,2009 PT Cruisers
Aluminum Deck Car Trailer


Posted By: 401MATCOUPE
Date Posted: Mar/25/2016 at 5:04am
Joe...don't be nervous on the stripe removal.  3M and Eastwood both make a "eraser" that will remove the factory Vinyl Stripes with no damage to the paint.  It is a disc of like a rubber eraser material.  I did the entire T-Stripe on the hood of original paint Quick Silver 71 AMX, no damage, and I just did the trunk stripe on my parents 74 Matador X, the Red X was really faded out and their were cracks in the "Matador" die cut....it came off in about 45 minutes, prepped and back on with new repop, all in a little over a hour!!

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Ross K. Peterson
68X,GoPac,343,AT,52A(1stCar)
68X,GoPac,390,4sp,52A
69X,GoPac,390,4sp,64A
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,87A,8
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,BBO,8
70 Jav SST,390,AT,BSO
74MatX,401,AT,Prototype
74MatX,401,AT


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Mar/16/2017 at 3:27pm
Okay, I am pleased (sort of) to report some progress.  I am staying with the 343 engine displacement that the car came with.  I have a new factory short block (made in 1973) that I have mentioned before.  I took the rotating mass for balancing to a trusted machine shop in a nearby town.  I picked the parts up today.  The reason I had it balanced was because I could not find a factory 343 flywheel and had purchased a NORS Scheifer flywheel with the correct part number for the AMC 343, 360 and 390.  The Scheifer catalog has a notation stating they they recommend precision balancing of the assembly.  The machinist said that it was the most out of balance new engine that he had ever worked with.  The pistons alone had 7 grams difference in weight.  The crankshaft was 152 grams (1/3 of a pound for you non-metric guys, ha) out of balance.  He said AMC would have been more correct if they had not drilled the crank as much as they did for the factory balance.  Anyway, all is good now.  I am looking forward to assembling the engine in the next couple of weeks.  I will be ordering new leather seat covers to replace the dried out leather on the seats, along with new carpet.  I will try to use Dent-Pros to deal with some of the soft dents on the body, because I want to preserve the original paint.  I will try too knock some of then out myself, also.  

I will have to deal with the sagging headliner but want to try to avoid having to buy the replacement currently marketed by the vendors.  The materials themselves are in great shape.  The glue has just failed.  The wheels will be blasted and refinished.  I will be getting new tires but I think I want to preserve the original look of the tires so I might try for the redlines or the small logo Goodyear RWL's.  Pictures to follow soon.   The car has a Mopar 8 3/4 rear axle from its racing days.  I don't know whether I will keep it yet.  Joe 


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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: 401MATCOUPE
Date Posted: Mar/16/2017 at 3:50pm
Joe,

Don't be shocked by how far out the balance was....the factory 343 flywheel has a cast in mass balance block on the side that faces the back of the engine....about 1" cube size.....the Scheifer Flywheel in neutral balance, so what they have to do to correct the weight, is to add or subtract the amount of weight (roughly speaking) that is the delta from the factory balance to the neutral balance.


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Ross K. Peterson
68X,GoPac,343,AT,52A(1stCar)
68X,GoPac,390,4sp,52A
69X,GoPac,390,4sp,64A
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,87A,8
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,BBO,8
70 Jav SST,390,AT,BSO
74MatX,401,AT,Prototype
74MatX,401,AT


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: May/23/2017 at 9:39pm
Ok so i made room in the garage for Hunter the AMX over the weekend and I am another step closer to starting the project.  It feels good to have the car inside and it does provide some incentive to work on it now.  He's a dirty guy still but I will begin cleaning in and build the motor.  I will be asking numerous questions as I try to mate the engine up with a T-10.  The car was not complete (missing engine and tranny) when I got it so I will be looking for original style hardware more than likely.  






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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Jun/03/2017 at 6:41pm
Spent much of the day removing a section of the silver Go Package stripes on Hunter the AMX, in preparation for replacing them with NOS stripes.   I want to drive this car a couple of years as a survivor before I make a decision to paint it.  The paint has held up pretty good overall. I used the Stripe Eraser to do it, as mentioned by Ross some time ago.  I purchased that tool a few years ago but it didn't work on my 77 Gremlin which had sunbaked gold stripes.  It's working OK on the AMX but the process I used is this:    Stripe eraser to remove the vinyl stripes, Two or three rounds of Goof Off with a soft plastic sponge to remove most of the adhesive, followed by two more rounds of hand rubbed 3M Perfect It rubbing compound.  It's one way to get your exercise.  At this rate it will take me about three days to do the whole car.  It does leave a shadow of the stripes but that doesn't bother me because it will make positioning the replacement stripes a little easier.   Joe






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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Jun/04/2017 at 5:49pm
You'll like the 343, it is a great high performance street engine, responds really well to mods, put a moderate cam. An r4b or air gap headers and some mild ignition upgrades and it will pull awesome.


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Jun/07/2017 at 10:37pm
I cut the old racing exhaust off of the car tonight.  Interestingly the guys had installed the mufflers backwards, with the inlet facing the rear on both sides.  I don't know if they did that for a better fit or what.  I removed the rear carpet and am considering how to manage the replacement. Stock Interiors does sell the wheel well covers and rear panel as an item, and I will buy those,  but they they do not (in their online catalog) offer just the rear carpet.  I am going to reuse the front carpet because the car is a survivor and that carpet is in great shape.  Also, I had ordered a couple of spray cans of Code 71A Hunter Green from APS Tower Paint and sprayed a couple of coats hastily onto a grey painted background on a test coupon.  The paint is a pretty fair match and will be useful for some fill-in at the edge of panels and perhaps underhood.  I don't think it is wasted money.  I also have a quart of 71A Dupont paint mixed by my local paint supplier but I have not sprayed a test panel yet.  





Test coupon on the left compared to paint under the trunk lid.  








Last licensed in 1978, presumably by the guys who raced it.  They didn't even bother to put the date (month) tag on the left side of the plate to make it street legal.  I have not peeked under the 1978 sticker to see when it was registered before 1978.  




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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: 69BBB3904spAMX
Date Posted: Jun/07/2017 at 11:54pm
Smile Joe,

Keep all the exterior original paint and buff it out. They are only original paint once and this looks like it can be a very presentable survivor.


-------------
37 Ford Tudor 60 hp V8 flathead, all original, never restored
69BBB3904spAMX
70 Camaro 1st car
74 Hornet Hatch 6 cyl floor/auto
2007,2008,2009 PT Cruisers
Aluminum Deck Car Trailer


Posted By: 232jav3sp
Date Posted: Jun/08/2017 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by 69BBB3904spAMX 69BBB3904spAMX wrote:

Smile Joe,

Keep all the exterior original paint and buff it out. They are only original paint once and this looks like it can be a very presentable survivor.

X2


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Jun/12/2017 at 3:47pm
I have been further investigating what carpet color (and kit) I should order to replace the sun-faded rear carpet over the wheel wells and back panel.  I ordered both the "black" swatch and the "charcoal" swatch from Stock Interiors.  I went out to the car today to compare to unfaded portions of the carpet.  My job was made easier because when I lifted up the corner of the front portion after removing the sill plate, the JP Stevens label was there.  Pictured below are the two swatches compared to unfaded carpet and the JP Stevens label.  So though my car has charcoal leather interior, the carpet is definitely black.  Also, note that the carpet label designates it as Javelin carpet, so the AMX and Javelin carpets (front portions) were obviously the same.  The 4ST on the label probably means 4-speed standard shift.  I know this stuff is obvious to old time AMCers but it is fascinating to me to confirm it with real world evidence.  Joe







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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Jun/13/2017 at 10:28pm
Ok.  I thought I would show this.  Sixteen years ago I was somewhat younger and was spending quite a bit of time in some of the central coast junkyards, which at that time still contained some AMCs.  The big Moss Landing Yard of PickNPull was one of my frequent haunts.  One of my neighbors worked for the yard as a tow truck driver and he knew I had Amc's including my AMX behind the fence in my back yard.  He sat high enough in the tow truck that he could clearly see over the fence.  So one day he stopped by my house and said the Moss Landing Yard had just accepted a 69 AMX, Hunter Green just like mine.  It was a 390 four speed and there was a possibility it could be be purchased if I hurried.  I don't remember what happened but the car was not able to be sold as a whole car so they put it in the rows to be parted out.  My neighbor alerted me soon after it got placed in the yard and I was one of the first pickers that got a shot at the car.  The engine and tranny and bucket seats were gone when I got there, but nearly everything else was there.  I got several loads including the driver's door both fenders, deck lid, and other parts.  Now, sixteen years later, my AMX needs the driver side glass replaced in the shoes.  I noticed however that the glass that came with my car was tinted and the rest of my car has clear glass.  I checked my stash and found this driver glass from that AMX long ago, still in the original shoes with the glue still sound.  Notice the date at the top corner. Yep, I have had that glass for about sixteen years.  Time flies.





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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Sep/01/2017 at 5:55pm
I now have Legendary Buns (something I tried to tell my late wife for years and got laughs instead).  

The bucket seats went to the upholsterer last week.  I did not want to do them myself because upholstery and exhausts are two areas I will not get into.  The upholsterer took one look at my seats (which are in good shape but dried out) and said I should order the new buns just to be sure that the new seats have enough bulk.  The covers are leather and between the covers and these new buns, they are expensive. 






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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Sep/16/2017 at 5:08pm
I'm working on the AMX again.  I re-glued the driver side window into a set of shoes.  The window had been off the shoes for many years.  I did review the sticky file on regluing windows here on the forum but there were some confusing aspects. For instance someone mentioned the factory "tape" to position the glass but did not give a part number rf show a picture.  Someone else said there was felt used to position the glass.  Not in my experience.  I have three AMX and Javelin windows here and the combination positioning substance and adhesive appears to be some sort of liquid rubberized material which has hardened very much over the years. What I found most helpful was a video published by West Coast Classic Cougar.  Mustangs and Cougars used the same sort of glue-in glass in 1969 so the tips there were very helpful.  I also bought the 3M adhesive and rented the applicator from them.  I will return the applicator, second photo below, for credit in a couple of days.  







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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Nov/24/2017 at 8:30pm
I finally installed the driver door glass today and adjusted it to fit the opening with the help of the TSM.  I did actually read the directions this time. 

I am working on the carpet now.   I plan to reuse the front carpet section for now  It is not too worn but is sunfaded and I may be able to darken it with dye.  My rear carpet come out in two pieces.  I guess that is the way it was made.  Of course the replacement carpet is just one big molded piece for the rear of the car.  I much prefer the factory cut and sewn version.  In fact I may reinstall the front section of the rear carpet and just trim the aftermarket rear carpet to fit with that section.  Pictures below show my clean underlayment and jute padding.  Rust belt guys eat your hearts out.  







Above you and see the shifter hump I plan to use with my T-10.  I hope it is the correct one.  The previous owner used this as a race car with an Olds 455 and turbo 400 tranny.  Thankfully they left the clutch pedal assembly in the car.  



The  previous owner installed a plate on the right side of the hump.  I guess they needed easy access to the shift linkage in their racing days. 



Existing cut and sewn rear carpet removed in two pieces.  I may reuse the front piece along with some of the replacement molded carpet shown below. 





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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Nov/25/2017 at 7:44pm
More trivia from today.  My car was built in December 1968.   There are date codes on the naugahyde used in the rear quarter interior panels and on the panels them selves, both dating from September.  I think the north American nauga has been rendered extinct because the hides were in such demand. Smile









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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: 69BBB3904spAMX
Date Posted: Nov/25/2017 at 8:14pm
Wink Joe, you gonna drag your hyde to Wednesday's AMC Club meeting?

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37 Ford Tudor 60 hp V8 flathead, all original, never restored
69BBB3904spAMX
70 Camaro 1st car
74 Hornet Hatch 6 cyl floor/auto
2007,2008,2009 PT Cruisers
Aluminum Deck Car Trailer


Posted By: 70amcpwr
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 7:30am
Great car and great post, keep up the good info and work. I found a lot of similar info when I took apart my wifes 69 AMX, she's still irritated I sold that car  Angry 


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70amcpwr You just can't fix stupid.
SOLD 1970 BBO Javelin, wifes 73 AMX 360 4spd. Next project 1969 AMX


Posted By: kirkwood
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 10:38am
looking great Joe. If you are running the stock hurst shifter you have the wrong shifter hum there - that is the metal one for the 68/e69 non hurst style. You should be able to still get the correct on from Amark.

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AMO Newsletter Editor


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Dec/07/2017 at 11:41am
Originally posted by kirkwood kirkwood wrote:

looking great Joe. If you are running the stock hurst shifter you have the wrong shifter hum there - that is the metal one for the 68/e69 non hurst style. You should be able to still get the correct on from Amark.

I might also have the correct one here somewhere then. I sold an original Inland shifter so I do plan to run the Hurst.  I will put the present shifter bezel up for sale.  Thanks.  Joe


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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Feb/23/2018 at 12:43pm
Ok I have lots of projects and sometimes I don't have much motivation, but I am back on the AMX project.  I am reassembling the factory short block 343 that I bought for the car years ago.  I thought I would provide some details below about how the factory built an engine, based on this block.



It appears the factory used some Permatex to seal the gallery plugs, based on the residue.



The crated was dated 1973 but it appears the engine was cast on the 191th day of 1972.  Just a deduction based on the date of the rod bearings shown below.  It is a Central Foundaries block (CFD logo shown.)




The block was cast on the 10th hour of the second shift (or it might be 10 p.m., not sure).  




The factory used a 360 block to produce the 343 service block, since 343 production was long discontinued.  They used head bolt hole inserts to convert to 7/16th head bolts for a true service block which could be installed with the original heads and head bolts in the field. I think I bought ARP 7/16ths head bolts long ago and do plan to use them.



As a service block, the 360 displacement was ground off.




A 528 (casting number for the 360) is cast inside the block which I had never noticed before.




The cast crank is a 3193816.  I have not checked to see if that matches the actual casting number of the earlier 343's but I don't suppose it makes any difference.   It is not an Armasteel crank, more's the pity.




Main bearing clearance was spot on at .002 inches for all the journals.  Thank you AMC.   I did not check rod clearance yet the crank turns easlily after each piston is inserted and the rod caps tightened.   Maybe I am lazy or too trusting but it is my motor and I will live with it. 



The factory had lightly oiled the head bolts.  So if you are wondering whether you should assemble them dry, hey, the factory lightly oiled them.




Rod bearings are dated April 1972.  The upper and lower bearings appear to be identical, but I noticed the L on one bearing in each set and used that bearing as the lower bearing for each rod.  By the way on this new engine the copper was showing for all main bearings except for one.  There did not ever appear to be a silver coating over the copper, but I neglected to get a picture before assembling the motor.




I think I mentioned before that I had the engine professionally balanced.  The shop reported that factory balance was nothing to brag about.  But they broke a compression ring and didn't tell me.  I called them and a new ring will be here next week.  


Below:  707 rods were used.  This will be a street motor so I did not take any extra measures like shot peening or any other flash cleanup performed.   I am considering the use of an old Viking 100 Erson cam for a 1960's lopey idle, but I have two other aftermarket cams to choose from too.  The original AMC cam which is never been run will be for sale for a few bucks.




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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: jpnjim
Date Posted: Feb/24/2018 at 8:27am
Originally posted by pacerman pacerman wrote:

The crankshaft was 152 grams (1/3 of a pound for you non-metric guys, ha) out of balance.  He said AMC would have been more correct if they had not drilled the crank as much as they did for the factory balance. 

Strange, since AMC would dynamically balance their engines on a big electric motor,
crazy that it would have been so far off.

It sounds like either heavier than stock pistons made it into the engine,
or it somehow ended up with a 290 crank(?).

Interesting build either way, thanks for posting it. Smile


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71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX
some Jeeps and some Fords


Posted By: 69BBB3904spAMX
Date Posted: Feb/24/2018 at 12:26pm
Smile Joe, Thanks for posting another example of the CID numbers being ground off of a service block, AFTER it was cast

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37 Ford Tudor 60 hp V8 flathead, all original, never restored
69BBB3904spAMX
70 Camaro 1st car
74 Hornet Hatch 6 cyl floor/auto
2007,2008,2009 PT Cruisers
Aluminum Deck Car Trailer


Posted By: bigbadgreen
Date Posted: Feb/24/2018 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by 69BBB3904spAMX 69BBB3904spAMX wrote:

Smile Joe, Thanks for posting another example of the CID numbers being ground off of a service block, AFTER it was cast

yeah. You can see how they did this.The block I had in question had orbital sand marks & filler under paint 😒



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