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XRV8 Gremlin

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Category: The Lounge Area
Forum Name: Member Projects
Forum Description: Are you doing a restoration or in the middle of a major AMC project? Show and tell us about it (*AMC projects* only Please. Others may be moved)
URL: http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76151
Printed Date: Dec/15/2019 at 4:20pm


Topic: XRV8 Gremlin
Posted By: amcenthusiast
Subject: XRV8 Gremlin
Date Posted: Jan/08/2016 at 8:51am
Posted a video on YouTube named 'XRV8 Gremlin, but deleted the vid just to 'play it safe'.

At least a few people got to see it.

If all goes well, I'll get to make another video, hopefully with better sound, on a dragstrip.

I'm partly using the name 'XRV8 Gremlin' to avoid all the other mainstream websites on the Internet that smear the reputation of my favorite car.

'XRV8' means eXperimental Rambler Vee 8 = this is a true experiment because there are so few examples of highly modified Rambler V8 engines, there is no believable statistical truth to say 'the Rambler V8 can be made into a powerful high performance engine'.

Putting my best AMC combination foot forward, Gremlin gives Rambler V8 best power to weight ratio possible in a stock AMC chassis car.

Here is a crank gallery pic of the 327 RV8 engine that is currently in the car (this is a '66 solid main 4bbl 327 block)



I put 'my signature' on this block and 90% of all casting flashes and blobs of unnecessary iron are removed... notice the front fifties style engine mount bosses are gone... all said and done; untold hours of work to save about three pounds... somewhat fiendish, but I enjoy taking my time detailing all the factory 'fast build' castings

The crank is tediously wet sanded... ? yeah... mainly to deburr all sharp edges around the rod journals -where the factory machine work blends into the stock forging... one thing led to another and it's all smooth to touch (everywhere)

On this engine build, I used a Lysle 'glaze breaker' cylinder hone (slow rhythmic technique to get 'horizontal diamonds' bore finish quality)  Hasting's cast iron rings on stock 4bbl pistons and rods, 'straight oil' only to break in the rings and oil spurt rod bearings. Once I became satisfied the rings were 'seated', I swapped out the oil spurt rod bearings with Sealed Power 'vintage' 2230CP non-oil spurt rod bearings to keep more oil in the rod bearing when running the engine in it's higher rpm ranges. Then I switched to using multi-viscosity anti-friction type oil. I added moly, and I run the new STP for it's zinc content. Here's a pic of my 'cleaned up' stock 4" bore cylinders:



I believe this plan (as recommended by Shell Oil for Lycoming engine break in) gave me very good ring seal because there is only a slight trace of oil around the oil filler cap whenever I run it hard. (has no pcv system with independent runner intake manifold)

The stock valve size heads on this 327 XRV8 engine are pocket ported; the intake port valve guide inserts are cut down and what's left is tapered into cone shapes, all sharp edges rolled/blended... most of the work on this pair of heads is on the exhaust side; moderate throat cuts but still leaving a venturi shape, end port head bolt protrusions removed to make those walls flat, center port top bolt lumps removed entirely (set screws inserted and voids braze filled as shown on Google+) & exhaust port outlets are gasket matched to the custom fabricated headers > 1 5/8" I.D. end tubes, 2 1/16" I.D. center tubes ...all valve seats have three angle cuts expand seats to largest acceptable diameter, to narrow the seats and to improve low lift flow...

(the stock Rambler V8 valve sizes are the same as AMC/Jeep 4.0 inline six & interestingly enough, both engines flow about 40 CID per cylinder, but the RV8 has a slightly longer rod for more piston dwell time at TDC...)



(above) -the end port head bolt protrusion is easy to get to with regular die grinder type bits and 'goes away' rather easily to smooth out that side wall of those ports



This pair of heads was an experiment to test the process I used to get rid of the center siamesed exhaust port top bolt lumps... as shown on the Google+ picture album pages: https://plus.google.com/106358430530058382730/posts/XnXmw3drKdj
or https://plus.google.com/u/0/106358430530058382730/posts/p/pub

...as a scientific experiment, the guinea pig area to be brazed has to be heated to over 840 degrees so they were placed on a DIY firepit to gently bring the temp up to about 500, and using oxy-propane torch the general brazing rod filler metal is added, then the heads were given a slow cool down by placing them on in a cooler location on the fire pit & letting the pit burn out completely (about twelve hours slow cool down)

The potential error is a cracked head, and this would plausibly be caused by embrittlement of the iron around the brazed area that was taken up to about 1000 degrees to perform the filler metal patch (this might cause a change of hardness to the iron and make it less ductile around the area)

The good news is that 1) the heads did not crack after the initial process 2) the resulting repaired area is easy to finish by grinding 3) this pair of heads show no evidence of malfunction caused by the brazing process after about three years of active operation.

This is only one example though, and in no case does one example ever form a statistical truth; a true scientist will need many examples in order to verify the initial result with believable data having a ratio of 60/40 etc to prove the outcome of the experiment is predictable and not based on specious speculation.



As supplied from the factory, Rambler V8 end port exhaust ports have minor variations to the shape of the outlets.

But the private individual can take their time to detail the imperfections and produce a more refined product using 'slow build techniques' (a component part of 'blueprinting' - a word that was once commonly used in hot rod jargon in that saying 'balanced and blueprinted')



(above) so what we see here is basically 'finishing the high speed factory product with slow build techniques' = these exhaust ports are only slightly more than 'cleaned up' to get rid of manufacturing imperfections





again, stock port compared to 327 XRV8's simple ported exhaust outlet/gasket matched to header:





For this 327's heads, I was able to make backcuts on all the stock valves, by chucking them in a drill press and DIY with an assortment of grinding tools -for improved low lift flow...

Making a longer story much shorter, this engine was put back in the car as a test monkey to sort out all the other engine swap issues that could possibly occur.

I think I did a good job; there are no 'banging/rubbing/clunking sounds' = everything is well isolated from the chassis... but this also must pass the test of time

There is no way the Rambler V8 engine can sit straight in the Gremlin engine compartment & use the stock mid-sixties car type exhaust manifolds.

'56'-'67 Rambler V8 has a 10" deck height so the block and heads are physically taller and wider than '66-'91 AMV8 (9.994"? see http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/rich_text_1.html = if you have more specs lemme know & I'll add them to the page) so custom headers, custom oil pan (and modded oil pickup tube) and custom engine mounts are needed...

The custom header's center pipe on the driver side is very close to the steering shaft but there is no nagging annoyance (can't feel it if it ever does rub anyway... but this is one more reason why I decided to try/test an engine torque strap)

installing or getting a wrench on the driver side rear header flange bolt is 'my most hated fastener' on this car because it's so cramped for space there and I have to work 'blind'/can't see it & I can only turn the bolt in small increments



'The problem' with the passenger side header is how to leave enough room around the starter motor (the AM RV8s came with a big fat GM/Delco type starter) so space is at a premium between the starter and the strut rod bracket.

I wound up having to trim a chunk off the strut rod bracket in order to move the center tube on the passenger side header so the starter will drop out from underneath like it should (this would be easier if I could afford a mini-starter... but I wanted to prove to myself the big starter will 'work right' regardless (Confession; my Mom had a heartattack while I was in the middle of making the passenger side header... so it's not quite as beautiful as the driver side/I was very distracted in my thinking so I just completed the task with less devotion to visual appearance...)



-so there's only 1/4" clearance there -the pass side header basically surrounds the strut rod bushing which is a judgment call not to overheat the rubber & to make sure the big adjustment nuts are still serviceable...

The flipside concerning need for trans oil cooler is simply to avoid heat transfer from exhaust to transmission, so my custom header design stays away from the transmission as much as possible, to help keep the trans 'cool' (and that goes for the filler tube which is especially prone to this problem)

...the fittings for the pressure side trans line to radiator cooler is my second most hated fastener on this car (gotta have skinny hands and 'work blind'/be extra patient to service that location)

  

and these pics partly show how to make the Shahan SS AMX style drop out crossmember mod; this mod only took me about 3 hours to 'fab it in' > comparatively easy to most other custom work to make this RV8 into later AMC small chassis car engine swap happen...

*there is no evidence of weakness caused by the drop out crossmember mod... 'done right' > I bought the highest grade bolts and nylock nuts etc (5/8" wrench size) moreover, AMC made the unibody front frame so heavy duty (it's three layers of 1/8" steel all spot welded together? > like steel plywood!) but the ease of servicing the crank gallery is well worth the effort (compared to the Chilton's way) ...I can pop the pan and check my rod bearings in about 30 minutes! (better safe than sorry... takes all the worry out of 'racing the engine'/reving it up to 5000+ when I know my rod bearings are looking good)



It brings back good memories to see this pic because at this point the Gremlin was basically just an engine test stand in order to try the engine.

Above pic also shows experimental 'low mount' alternator brackets which adapt a '75 Gremlin alternator to the '65 Rambler V8 dual action fuel pump mounting location... to work with XRV8 Gremlin's 72 GPH 5 PSI electric fuel pump mounted low behind right rear wheel with fabricated gravel shield.

 


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Link to XRV8 Race Parts website: www.amcramblermarlin.1colony.com



Replies:
Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/08/2016 at 10:10am
This is the link

www.youtube.com/embed/EdrSWGe6iM0


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71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: BrotherBamc
Date Posted: Jan/08/2016 at 1:38pm
Cool
Brought a big smile to my face!


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73 Gremlin
2006 Dodge Magnum R/T AWD
http://www.lxforums.com/board/garage.php?do=user_garage_view&id=19745" rel="nofollow - My Garage


Posted By: scott
Date Posted: Jan/08/2016 at 4:38pm
Love it!!!


Posted By: jav343
Date Posted: Jan/08/2016 at 6:49pm
Thanks for brightening my evening. Love a healthy sounding V8!

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2000 Dodge Durango SLT 4.7L, 1997 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L, 1968 AMC Javelin 5.6L 


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/08/2016 at 7:11pm
Thanks AMC Forum members for your kind and generous comments.

I was hoping y'all might search 'XRV8 Gremlin' & find the other picture albums also... which I've been putting together (on Google+) since I messed up the first 'member project' attempt here on this forum...

Pardon the interruption to the thread but after I cleaned up, painted and installed a stock '79 Concord .94" front sway bar purchased from "Fantastic hike in AMC Rambler junkyard" (picture album shown on the Google+ pages) I chose this 'dead space' in this thread to post the pics showing the rear sway bar kit

Addco .75" sway bar kit parts:



We may notice how the 'arms' of the bar are made to apparently curve around AMC AMX Torque Links (if so equipped)



So the 'override' frame mounted Addco rear sway bar adds about nine lbs of 'sprung weight' to the rear of the car.

IMO; the Addco bar is well engineered 1) bar is frame mounted not to increase unsprung weight 2) bar adds it's weight forward of the rear axle, closer to the car's center of gravity 3) the leaf spring clamps effectually increase the leaf spring rate as well, to enhance leaf spring resistance to 'wheel hop' (adding clamps to the leaf spring is in itself a road racer mod to stiffen/tune a leaf spring) 4) notice the Addco bar's leaf spring clamp aligns with geometry of the shock mount plate to resist torsional axle rotation (aka 'wheel tramp')

IMO; the Addco install kit 'needs a little help'/creative DIY engineering to make it fit 'correctly' 1) car needs to set up on jackstands in such a way that the springs duplicate actual poise of car 'at rest' 2) My bar is trial fitted but the flat plates that go under the pivot locations should be welded on to the frame in order to prevent 'rip out' (initially there to model space for tailpipes) 3) I'd say to measure & 'square up' your rear suspension first -make distance from axle to bottom out bushings equal, then use a level and hold the bar with it's arms horizontal/parallel to the leaf spring, mark the locations for frame mounts then drill for the u-bolt = we do not want any left or right pre-load on a street car, nor should the bar be used as a spring to hold the car level (if the car 'sits crooked' that's another issue that needs to be resolved on it's own)
 



I gained access to use a very good Canon PowerShot camera so I can take better pictures and make much better videos ...once I learn to use it of course...   




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Link to XRV8 Race Parts website: www.amcramblermarlin.1colony.com


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/08/2016 at 7:42pm
Great! I tried to post the link as a in frame video, but can't do so... something broken with this site. Even though I am able to preview, once I hit OK, bam dead in the water. 

Looking forwardcto seeing more, as I am one to go outside the box. Some enjoy what I have shared and some scratch their heads. But I am not doing what I do with my car to please anyone but myself. It just so happens some enjoy it as well.

You must get a new wind screen for your XR Gremlin... cops don't like that, and will draw attention. Hehehehejehehe!

Yep, it was a nice trip around the block... reminds me of back when I would ride shotgun with my cousin in his 69 Firebird with a 400cui small block. His town has similarity to yours.


-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/08/2016 at 7:43pm
Edited this comment to reduce the 'dead area' in this thread after I decided to delete the video.


Posted By: Kapptaink
Date Posted: Jan/09/2016 at 4:40pm
Was that a Darth Vader snow pile about 2:00 minutes in?

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PrevOwned:73HornetX 360/a727 Blk/Blk-69Javelin/R/R-69AMXBlk/W-69JavelinPrimer
Kirk


Posted By: GreggR
Date Posted: Jan/09/2016 at 5:25pm
Anyone else search pictures...



...and have an "Avanti" moment...?




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No matter where you go, there you are... Buckaroo Banzai.'75 Hornet Hatchback


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/10/2016 at 10:06am
Sorry I had to delete the video for my own personal security, but at least some people got to see it.




Posted By: idrambler
Date Posted: Jan/10/2016 at 10:21am
try this.........bummer

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Jim....AMCRC
Treasure Valley AMC ID
http://idahoamcrambler.com/" rel="nofollow - http://idahoamcrambler.com/
69 AMX 401/727
74 GremlinX 401/727race
73 Matador HT 360/727..driver again


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/10/2016 at 11:17am
Sorry I had to delete the video. (and sorry I did not reply to comment about 'Darth Vader' snow pile; no that was a lady who covers her flowers with a sheet to keep them from freezing)


Posted By: Lucas660
Date Posted: Jan/10/2016 at 3:40pm
I got to see it. There's nothing like the sound of a gen1 v8. Brilliant.


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/10/2016 at 11:22pm
Hey great, glad some got to see it & sorry again for being less than fearless.

...but I live in a small town; one time, about twelve years ago, I had a flat tire (different car/Jeep) and called my poor old Dad from a bar in a strip mall to to come save me because the spare was low on air (no nearby gas station for miles). The next morning when I went to work, my employer told me he heard that I called my Dad from a strip bar because I had a flat tire... wow... just like that/overnight! Either way is embarrassing but the gossip factor around here is really something to watch out for.

Yesterday I saw a video of a person who was showing how their hideaway bed slides into a wall & makes a secret passageway into another room... it's no secret anymore! (Duh!)

I was going to post some pics today of the wiper motor install but the Canon PowerShot pics are HD and too large; 4.5 where this site says 4.0 max so I need to figure out how to reduce them to 'ordinary'



  



 


Posted By: 8pack
Date Posted: Jan/11/2016 at 7:07am
Tinypic.com


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/11/2016 at 8:01am
Ha about the strip bar... as when I first saw that you added strip mall, I thought how many here would mix strip with bar. Hehehehehehehe!

It is a brain process that will combine two diff words, numbers, and symbols to be easily recognizable. Not just because we are naughty pensioners... though I would not pass on the idea there may be at least one amung us. Ha!

As for hidden pocket passages... we had an old 1860s home that at one time was the under takers home and parlor. It looked normal as there was no distinct differences in layout with any home, yet for being a single floor plan, it had a Victorian look without the rounded room corners and angled ceilings. One room, the family room was used as the viewing room and had tall and wide pocket doors, and within the room a walkin closet. Was not deep just 6 times wider than the door. Upon viewing inside, head on at the doorway, it would look ordinary... Like any pocket closet. If you walk in a bit and brush against the hanging jackets and what nots, you could follow it and make a left turn to a door. Once opened you can enter into a secondary bedroom. 

Another odd room was outside of the kitchen, within the wash room... as an oddly shaped cupboard door opens into a small workers room that also fits with the doors part rectangle, part triangle shape. 

Through out the US there are variations to workers quarters, some have been converted long ago and only a keen eye would know any better.

We have an older power shot, depending on the menu you can set the photo to be medium and will do fine.  My tablet is 5mp and always set to high resolution. Every once and a while I get a picture that is too large by how much detail I shoot in background. Your power shot may have editing features... you may be able to crop the picture on the fly and not have to change your picture quality settings.


-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/11/2016 at 9:53am
Oh thanks for the tip. -guess I need to read some in the little book that came with the PowerShot camera & get more experience like you... & just noticed your car's components... wow yeah the AMC parts have dried up completely for most AMC car people I guess...


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/11/2016 at 10:49am
Originally posted by amcenthusiast amcenthusiast wrote:

& just noticed your car's components... wow yeah the AMC parts have dried up completely for most AMC car people I guess

Ah don't let my wee list of components fool you... I was torn when I drove the car home. I purchased it on ebay just thinking it was a good candidate to build a customized Javelin. Really looked worse than it actually was. From all the NOS parts and being mostly original, and from the original owner as well... I felt it was more restorable than what I wanted to start with. So it took a few years to get past it and do what I set on to do.

For my car it was purchased in 13 or so years ago for $1200 as a driver with everything operational and had tons of NOS parts that paid for most of what I have now including the car. 

About half of the non stock parts were part of a slow progression of nabbing on a good deal. One guy could not sell his rebuilt Jeep TH400 because it had been repaired down at valve body flange. A minor crack that was welded. The Ford rear was a 100 U take away, with 3.73 gears. Too big for my taste and the housing was all I wanted anyway.

As for engine stuff, if I am to spend good money 700 bucks total I am going with 70 stuff outside of the crank. For being wrong year, the cost was hard to pass up. The pistons were almost given to me, so as with anyone here would do, make the most of a  $1000 custom set of race pistons, coated pins, rings and a bunch of wonderful promotional stickers. HA! If they wont work out for the build no loss for me so to speak.

There is some odd reasons for other mix mash of parts, and some not so odd. Mostly I wanted to modernize as much as I could while keeping a factory look. Some think it is costly or makes a lot of work... but I just plugged along finding unexpected deals here and there. Yes, sometimes those deals may make my direction change a wee bit, but rareley loose money in a mistake. If anything R&D work will cost some, but I really can't say lost any money on R&D with my crazy suspension idea.




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71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/11/2016 at 8:37pm
Ok thanks y'all for the encouragement on how to do the pics better.

I thought I made them smaller using the PowerShot camera's size reduction feature, downloaded them to my PC and when I went to install them here they were too big again... I'll keep trying


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/11/2016 at 9:43pm
-took out this pic because it did not flatter the looks of the car (looks better in person, not through a fish eye camera lens)


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Link to XRV8 Race Parts website: www.amcramblermarlin.1colony.com


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/11/2016 at 11:11pm
The '75 parts car's engine was in such good condition (internally only) that I couldn't bear taking it apart so I repaired everything instead!

The silver '73 is 'my baby'; the former 'ship in a bottle' I used to build in my mind when I was an alcoholic/party animal, prior to two and a half years ago when I went to a state funded chemical dependency treatment center to get medical help for the alcohol addiction.

I've been 100% sober ever since.

The '73 used to be a Trans Am red, black bucket seat interior, gold stripe X model. Luckily, the former owner tore off the door tag and threw it in the glove box when they replaced the door, apparently when the car had some type of weird accident happen to it's driver side rear half (perhaps more than one accident...)

This car sat in the junkyard, windows down & full of trash for at least twenty five years. It's red paint was obviously bleached out by sunlight which made it look like it was Sienna Orange instead. The gold X side stripes were apparently sanded down and painted over at some point but their outline could still be seen looking at the car up close. (I think it'd look great Sienna Orange with gold stripes but decided not to keep it/but going with modern camouflage scheme instead so it's not so flashy)

Here's a few pics of how it looked when I got it home;

  HEE HEE HEE!

  Now that's UGLY! 







MAN that fender was messed up! Look at the picture on the right >

HOW DO YOU DO THAT? LOOK AT HOW THE DRIVER SIDE REAR FENDER IS STRETCHED/PULLED BACK... what happened?

Upon closer inspection, the inner fender part behind the wheel was truly mangled = I could see no way to simply hammer/dolly it out. Hence, 'saving' this car meant taking the corner pieces off, straightening them out and welding them back on again.

I think it may have been driven 'at speed' with a blown out steel belted radial tire in a perceived emergency type situation because the inner fender stamping behind the rear tire was beaten beyond recognition; it looked sort of like a wadded up piece of newspaper once I got the outer fender off...

Here's what it looked like when I was re-doing the rear fender, with the dollied out inner fender part already brazed back on there (the drilled out spot welds are re-filled with brazing method)

                              
Once I became satisfied all the rust was under control, I sprayed the underbody satin black (after many intense cleaning scraping scrubbing pressure washing sessions etc of course) ... the add on workspace is custom made to fit one Gremlin in there...

I did all the 'welding' using a 'cheapie' disposable canister mini torch; it's all tediously brazed back together with a dinky torch! (just make the best of what ya got!.. I fabbed up my own 'real' oxy/propane torch about two months later)

was a heck of a deal to get the roof rail seam brazed solid because the factory lead filled seam is right there above my cut and lead would pollute the seam so I had to double the effort there to 'get it right'

Of course lots of measuring took place to make sure all was square again while going back together (width and length of wheelwheel, unibody frame channels, roof to floor etc)

...the fenders are definitely a structural component of these cars, where the triangular shape in the rear portion of a Gremlin bodystyle is definitely like a big triangular gusset for structural rigidity of the unibody chassis... where the beauty of the part is definitely 'more than skin deep'; it's a smart shape which adds structural rigidity otherwise...

From that point, it was all about the engine. The first engine (a '65 327 4v) had a cracked block > crack running lengthwise in the lifter gallery in the water jacket under one head/on one bank; the freeze plug on the outside of that bank was not popped out & obviously it froze too hard one winter...

I was not successful to repair it (cringe... shrug...) so I ended up using that block as a dummy just to make the necessary adapter pieces to fit a good block into the engine compartment

I took my time to align the RV8 engine and trans into the Gremmy locations. In the process of doing the work, I noticed the RV8 retains it's fifties style front engine mount bosses and seriously considered cutting into the firewall to install it with that same amount of set back... (but that wouldn't work with the intake I'd planned to build for it)

When I finally got the engine nudged into position (partly hanging from my homemade engine hoist and partly hanging from 'rafters' & chains similar to what they show in Chilton's manuals on how to change the oil pan) I made the engine mounts like this...



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Link to XRV8 Race Parts website: www.amcramblermarlin.1colony.com


Posted By: pit crew
Date Posted: Jan/12/2016 at 5:13am
Originally posted by amcenthusiast amcenthusiast wrote:

I thought I made them smaller using the PowerShot camera's size reduction feature, downloaded them to my PC and when I went to install them here they were too big again... I'll keep trying
I use a PC based program called IrfanView. It can crop, resize, rotate, and color correct pictures. Not hard to use and easy to learn. You can download it from their web site.

http://www.irfanview.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.irfanview.com  


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73 Hornet - 401EFI - THM400 - Twin Grip 20


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/12/2016 at 5:48am
OH YEAH! ...there it is!... I like your car man!


Posted By: pit crew
Date Posted: Jan/12/2016 at 6:20am
Love that IrfanView. Been using it for years.

One of these days we maybe be in the same place at the same time to check out each others cars.
Love your build so far. Keep the pictures and updates coming.

I am in the process of getting a few upgrades completed on the Hornet. Moved up to an EFI 401, coil overs with tubular control arms in the front, new strut rods, and higher rated leaf springs with the CE Slide-A-Link traction bars. The main attraction for the Slide-A-Link bars is they can be adjusted on the fly with just two wrenches. Great when going from street to track and back again. Or when you just want to get a little nutty on the street. Wink

It will be interesting to see how the 17 inch G-Force street tires hook up.



 


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73 Hornet - 401EFI - THM400 - Twin Grip 20


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/12/2016 at 6:25am
*I really like pitcrew's Hornet for all the smart mechanical choices he's made ...and the smart paint; by definition a hornet is yellow and black!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...so I got the seriously damaged body where I thought it would be worthy again (obviously that was why the car was declared 'totaled' & the main reason why it went to the junkyard)

Here's pics of the engine mounts I made to adapt AMC's earlier Rambler V8 to the later stock AMC inline six 'small chassis' engine crossmember

 

These were made after trial fitting locations for trans to tunnel clearances, distributor cap to wiper motor & firewall clearances, oil pan to crossmember... everything I could think of...

The final engine mount design was at first modeled by using pieces of cardboard cut and taped together. With prototypes made out of cardboard, those pieces were then cut out of 1/8' thick steel plate & welded together. Essentially they are triangular gusset type spacers about 1.25" tall welded into bolt on plates which were cut to match the block and mount bolt patterns.

The stock '65 RV8 exhaust manifolds do not fit; the passenger side would hit on the strut rod bracket and the driver side would hit on the steering column (no way to set the engine in 'straight' using the former inline six locations to judge fitment)


 


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Link to XRV8 Race Parts website: www.amcramblermarlin.1colony.com


Posted By: pit crew
Date Posted: Jan/12/2016 at 6:31am
Originally posted by amcenthusiast amcenthusiast wrote:

The stock '65 RV8 exhaust manifolds do not fit; the passenger side would hit on the strut rod bracket and the driver side would hit on the steering column (no way to set the engine in 'straight' using the former inline six locations to judge fitment)
I feel your pain. Small body cars are a pain when it comes to manifolds. We had to "shave" a little off the strut rod bracket and the manifold on the passenger side to get the freeflow manifold to fit.


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73 Hornet - 401EFI - THM400 - Twin Grip 20


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/12/2016 at 6:43am
comment deleted to save space on AMC Forum




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Link to XRV8 Race Parts website: www.amcramblermarlin.1colony.com


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/12/2016 at 7:00am



Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/12/2016 at 7:20am
(since 304dude re-quoted pics of the headers, I edited out this first set of pics to save space on AMC Forum... that's cool > don't take it personal/no biggie)

Here's how the custom headers looked viewing underneath from the front:



*note I copied Shirley Shahan Drag On Lady SS/AMX drop out crossmember for servicing crank gallery... this works great/highly recommended by me for any AM car with engine built for higher performance level.

Here's a pic of some homemade tools I used to bend all the exhaust tubing myself, using weld on caps, on six five foot long sand filled tubes > two 10' long 1 5/8" ID tubes & one 10' long 2 1/16" ID cut in half to make the four 'end port' tubes and the two 'siamesed' center port tubes:

-shake down the dried sand in the tube, weld a cap on one end, weld the 'T handle cap' on the other end which is used to compress the sand while bending orange red torched pipe inserted into 'wheel barrow tube bending die' which is affixed to  homemade engine hoist's upright post by another adjustable adapter to make bends in different directions... use muscle to push on tube to bend into desired shape (tubes as such are heavy and packed tightly with sand are rather resistant to bending = good exercise!)

I'm not good enough to make full length custom bent tubes so there are many short lengths of tubing cut & welded together to make the longer tubes fit 'right'.

(once I got a little experience doing the headers, doing the rest of the exhaust system was a 'cakewalk' by comparison!)

If anyone other fellow AMCer is interested in making their own custom headers, feel free to PM me or ask questions > that's just my natural tendency desiring to help other people if I'm able.


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Link to XRV8 Race Parts website: www.amcramblermarlin.1colony.com


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/12/2016 at 7:30am
Originally posted by amcenthusiast amcenthusiast wrote:

Here's a few pics of my raw header design which serve as RV8 into Gremlin engine swap adapters:

















& ok it won't take the next pic

I go to work now ~later~







Love the arching flow of the design... a mix of freeflow design similarity. 


-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/14/2016 at 8:08am
Thank you for the compliment.


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/14/2016 at 8:29am
I was thinking that by tackling the headers first, I'd get the hard part over with and do the intake manifold second.

Boy was I ever wrong; the intake very difficult for me to do. I had to 'walk away' more than a few times when I was trying to tack weld all the pipes in their proper places (me, fuming in total frustration over why/how it was such an octopus' puzzle to hold them all locked/stationary in order to make one tack weld at a time!)

Here's the raw intake manifold I designed, only made after untold years of studying every in depth article on intake manifold design I could put my eyes on (many articles on the Internet have come and gone) ...the knowledge is of course translated into what I deemed doable (ha!)



 


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/14/2016 at 8:50am
I always wanted to do this but my former stereotypical drunk blue collar lifestyle always kept me from living the dream.

Here's a few pics of the intake, early on, during the initial fabrication process:



&



I could really grow long in the tongue describing how to tune these slightly more complex US made carbs.

If any fellow AMCer is curious to learn more about these carbs, feel free to PM or ask... I think I might be able to help...


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/14/2016 at 9:02am
About welding, my metal shop work started less advanced, but if i had another year I may have had welding be part of learning. Did get to cast and lathe and draft mechanical and architectual drawings... some of that did spark my ability to see what fits and how to make it fit while examining photos and parts diagrams from unlike components. Thus my miss mash of stuff that I have kept in my head only to be revialed once I finish up what I started. For example my suspension work. Like your work with intake and exhaust, unique and very much your own, even though we would not have done what we have without resources.

Yours being through documentation and your welding training. Mine mostly by seeing how my cousine got by making things work with very little and abilities to come off with odd ideas time to time. I guess it is the outback aproach or what Americans say Farmers way... as there are a lot of inventive things one may find while poking at an old tractor. Billd, has not touched upon his experiances with farmers fixes, but he may some time.

I think the old gasser mentality has somewhat faded with the crowed here... as your intake reminds me of that era... now to put 8 Strongbergs or 4 Webers with velocity stacks in one of your Gremlins. I bet the tips would be at the roof line. Hehehehehehehe!

Never mind about the gasser period carbs... your ship in the bottle carbs are just so wrong that they are awsome! 



-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: fhpdave
Date Posted: Jan/14/2016 at 12:43pm
This is just way too cool! I love reading/seeing about the fabrication and all the "outside the box" thinking that it took to get your car to where it is right now. Also like hearing about your story too, its a double header of two things rising from the ashes and living to run another race.

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Old enough to know better - young enough not to care


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/14/2016 at 9:22pm
Aw man thanks again for the nice complements.

*the airhorn on an MC 2150 is a velocity stack; co-designed by Holley, they already have 3/8 radius juxtaposed to MC 2100 design... more independent runner carb mods info on Google+ XRV8 pages;

https://plus.google.com/u/0/106358430530058382730/posts/p/pub
 
I have to give credit to 'Headers by Ed' for his info and inspiration. They sell pre-made AMC '56-'67 Rambler V8 header flanges and pre-made 'siamese center port V8' type/one large and two small tube/three into one header collectors but they are way too expensive for my budget.

Credit goes to Bill Kraft Rambler and Preston Honea for their A/FX Rambler American drag car inspiration > example #1 of RV8 with four 'Rochester 2jet' two barrel carbs on independent runner manifolds.

Dave Emmanuel gets credit for putting together an excellent book named "Holley Carburetors", where I have learned much general carburetion theory (apparently all his other carburetor books are similar to explain carburetion theory, but are then tailored to describe the individual units)

I would like to thank Greg Taylor (of Australia?) for posting the first copy of "The New American Motors V8" on the Internet, and then "WPS" for re-posting them again when G. Taylor faded from his limelight amidst the former Dick Datsun Turbo.com webpage inspiration. (Apparently by D. Datsun's inspiration the regular members on that site were inspired to examine the Rambler V8 for turbocharging & for a while they had pictures and air flow bench test numbers comparing the RV8 heads alongside Buick V6 heads (back when Kenne Bell, then the Buick GN Regals were surprising everyone how well the V6 could run) > They already knew the intake ports are good but were rather surprised to learn the Rambler V8's stock exhaust ports matched the Buick V6 exhaust port flow numbers close enough to make it also a good candidate for turbo application) Thanks to Jubilee Jeeps for posting another copy of the SAE RV8 pages also.

Thanks to my high school metal shop teacher also.


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/14/2016 at 10:34pm
The oil pan had to be re-worked, to move the sump all the way back, which gave another reason to massage stock oil pump for this higher performance application:




















The suction side pick up tube is re-made with larger diameter sand fill heat bent tubing & places the re-arranged opening of the pick up 'bell' in the center of the 'new' rear sump (placed oil drain plug 'right there' beside the oil filter for easy oil changes and the sump is slightly angled for better drainage) The oversize pick up tube is chosen to match the ID of the stock pump cover opening whereas I used die grinder to remove the threaded area there in order to slip in the custom tube and braze it in permanently > for no change in diameter there at that point...

I estimated suction side of oil pump housing to be smaller than size of new pick up tube so I hogged it out until I thought there was minimal surrounding gasket area for a sealing flange

Pics show how I enlarged the suction side passageway inside the oil pump housing where it dumps into the gear cavity.

For the rest of the RV8 oil system? > I'd say leave the high pressure side of the RV8's oil system as is; I have not discovered any beneficial modifications there, though I've tried (unsuccessfully)





Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/15/2016 at 7:35am
Still working on the paint scheme to keep it from looking too 'hillbilly' even though I changed the front styling with clamshell hood.

Sorry 304dude about getting hung up on 'the hillbilly thing' (criticism on how it looks) > vanity creeps in, so I need that to stay humble/for good reason anyway -thanks again






Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/15/2016 at 7:56am
Nope, I don't know what put the notion in your head things can be hillbilly. Being honest about what started your AMC hobby or pulled you out of your downward spiral is ok... I am not judgmental, as everyone has a point of view from where they all come from. Some may be open minded and some may say their two cents worth in a direct way. I am practical and understand both sides of the coin, unfortunately the difficulty of being on two sides of the fence is when someone else just wants to be difficult with reason.

I admit there are times when I shrug wondering why, when I see something odd or not to my own way of doing things. It is not that I am disheartened by what ever, just it is that I failed to see the vision or reasoning. Sure we all have our strong headed ways to various degrees, but if we were not so strong in the direction we made for ourselves, then we would not see variation on what we have created. 


-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: amxmachine
Date Posted: Jan/15/2016 at 8:35am
Im glad you started posting your cool unique project. Keep up the good work!!


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/15/2016 at 9:08am
Thank you AMXmachine for your generous encouraging comment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a more recent pic showing how well the wiper motor 'hides' behind the independent runner induction system- (all internal carburetor metering circuits are modified to run on this no plenum style intake... since AMC used Motorcraft 2150 carburetors on Jeep Grand Wagoneers, this helps to keep my car 'all AMC' as much as possible... the entire induction system (wet, including linkage) weighs only 23 lbs, weighed on a bathroom scale)

...using custom 'steel gray' engine color for the AMX style shadow mask. (the hood's color hinting about what's under the hood)



In this pic, one may also see how I fabricated my own hood pins, not to create new damage to the '73 vintage Gremlin chassis; they're just a steel tab with a pin welded on that bolts under a fender bolt (nice and simple)




 



Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/16/2016 at 9:05am
I tend to hate odd looking custom modifications done to AMC cars; honestly? I usually begin feeling sick to the stomach... like an atheist being forced to sit inside a Catholic Church!

But I had to do this, which was mainly to protect the engine compartment during inclement weather... but I've grown to like it, especially the added ease of access to work on the engine (see next pic)


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/17/2016 at 10:09pm
Here's a few pics of different ideas I drew using Windows XP 'paint program' on how to make the clamshell hood:




I think a '78 Concord AMX style grille might look best...

*notice whereas the stock Gremlin hood already has an engine bulge, I'm trying to take it a step further and make the scoop harmonize with the Gremlin fender flares -to make it a 'Gremlin Hoodscoop'! 

(much time spent making fiberboard mockups, attaching them with tape and viewing the car from many angles to 'get the look' acceptable?)

*Playing many amateur sports in my formative years definitely produced a PRO-AMC attitude in my current adult lifestyle; I do not want a 'Chevy style cowl induction' hoodscoop decorating my AMC car -in my mind, that would be like wearing a Dallas Cowboys T-Shirt to a Houston Texans pep rally! (boo hiss!)



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, on with the project, here's two pics of the oil pan with one way trap door/rear dam added;



XRV8 Gremlin oil pan

pic on left shows location of rear dam made to align with front of the oil pump housing which hangs from the wide rear main bearing cap (makes a small storage/enclosure there in the rear of the pan where there is less windage)

the second pic attempts to show how the rear dam's trap door opens forward, to release oil from the rear area directly onto the pickup when hitting the brakes










Posted By: Lucas660
Date Posted: Jan/18/2016 at 12:55am
I did wonder how you were getting air to flow over the radiator. If you wanted to keep it without a grille, you could fit a air dam like on some trucks to deflect the air up. This is my favorite Gremlin.


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/18/2016 at 11:56am
Hi Lucas660, I wish I could give you a ride in it!

Can you view XRV8 Gremlin Google+ picture albums over there in Australia?

Can you add a comment, on any of the XRV8 Gremlin Google+ pages?

It has no problem staying cool with the Studebaker Avanti looking grille delete; there is apparently plenty of airspace above and beneath the front bumper for the AMC seven blade flex fan to draw air through the aftermarket 'Champion Cooling Systems' two row aluminum radiator. > rad gives honest seven pound weight savings in a strategic geometrical location, helping to reduce bi-polar inertia for improved handling, as well as improved heat transfer & I use 'Hyper Lube's water wetter, distilled water and minimal antifreeze to make my own super coolant. I was able to cut a stock Marlin fan spacer to get about 1.25" of space between the fan and the rad. The engine compartment also 'breathes' well to release heat out of the 'carburetor cover' ...the Rambler V8's arguably oversized large water jacket is another aspect that points to AMC's original intent to expand the CID of the engine before the Automobile Manufacturer's Association ban on racing in '57 happened in reaction to '55 LeMans Disaster and '57 NASCAR Mercury Meteor crash into grandstands


Posted By: underdog
Date Posted: Jan/18/2016 at 3:54pm
My personal opinion is take a 1971-74 AMX grill and contour your sheet metal around that. Your keeping the AMC look and I believe it would be very sharp. And instead of having AMX, You would a GRX in the middle of the grille.

AMC Fan....
 








[/QUOTE]

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1969 SS396/375 Chevelle
2005 SSR 6.0 HO
2005 Dodge (Rumble Bee)
1963 Manta Ray Spyder
1966 Mustang XR Roadster
1966 Mustang fastback
1970 Ford Torino King Cobra(prototype)




Posted By: GreggR
Date Posted: Jan/18/2016 at 4:51pm
actually... my "Avanti" comment was meant as a compliment...

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No matter where you go, there you are... Buckaroo Banzai.'75 Hornet Hatchback


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/18/2016 at 5:34pm
The bottom two photos of nose are greate... yes the top right looks Avanti-ish.

If going with avanti style it reminds me of a mod that Buick did with the 64 Riviara. Don't have a picture, but the grill opening completely closed to a flush fitted panels painted the same as the body. When temps rose or hard acceleration the panels would open. Acutally to put the image of proper look, it would be the top right with the bottom left grill trim to separate the panels when they open.


-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: Lucas660
Date Posted: Jan/18/2016 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by amcenthusiast amcenthusiast wrote:

Hi Lucas660, I wish I could give you a ride in it!

Can you view XRV8 Gremlin Google+ picture albums over there in Australia?

Can you add a comment, on any of the XRV8 Gremlin Google+ pages?



Wow, this build is well documented, following on Google+


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/18/2016 at 9:13pm
Thanks for inputs y'all... ok your Avanti comment is fine with me; it does look that way!

I was thinking to make my own JavAMX styled grille because I already had two JavAMX turn signals from along time a go... I put this vendor on my bookmarks tab for 'best source' to get the material;

stainless steel mesh; https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3641

*it is interesting to note how much the opening size of a mesh grille overlay relates to total airflow (which can be adjusted by adding or removing additional screens... in various areas of the frontal area of the car to manipulate aerodynamics...)

Now I've moved the JavAMX turn signals into the '73 type 'gravel pan' under the bumper... to sort of fill in the gaping cut outs that were apparently done to accommodate the new-for-'73 energy absorbing bumpers (but I took my bumper shocks out & converted to '70-'72 style)


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/18/2016 at 9:47pm
comment with pic deleted to save space on AMC Forum


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/18/2016 at 10:43pm
I basically 'had to do this' because the engine is powerful enough with Twin Grip and 331 to 1 rear gear to seriously smoke the tires all the way though first (going sideways... to parallel park?) and three quarters through second = define 'traction problem'! 

And I know by experience ~for sure~ excessive wheelspin may look cool to an ignorant person but on the drag strip it's a sure way to lose races. (moreover, watch 'Tesla vs Hellcat' on YouTube = pathetic/very embarrassing)

What I thought would be a fast and easy fabricating job ended up taking all my spare time for  about three days getting 'the geometry' I wanted, having slightly more than stock pinion angle for more 'bite'... pics of XRV8 Gremlin's custom made weld on traction bars;



(For aesthetics, but lightweight aspect also, I made a template and used the same angle as the carb cover (aka 'hoodscoop') for the angle cut on the traction bars... which then is the same measured angle as the front windshield)

I chose Moog control arm bumpstops for the snubber rubbers. (easy to find replacements)

This was more difficult to do than it looks; my final chassis geometry settings for the rear suspension is done with the front wheels of the car lifted 1" off the ground, using all the car's weight placed onto the rear axle ~as if~ the car is fully loaded up with torque from the engine (see 'shopeshop.com' 'traction dyno' 'chain test')

-this also lowered my rear suspension about 1/2" visually because the leaf paks are bolted tight under load (as opposed to tightening the shock plates with the rear wheels dangling/leaf springs fully extended... -very dangerous to do; working with a loaded spring)

*I'm adding on a note here about this modification; this makes the car 'ride like a truck' (it's not for everybody, but I'm 'crossing the line' with this mod to get maximum smooth road surface traction instead)

I have not tested this car on any rough roads (it may be too stiff for cruising over railroad tracks etc in rush hour traffic type situations) but for now ~I like it like this! > has a great rough-tough 'musclecar feel'.

  



 


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/18/2016 at 11:46pm
Since I could see the engine move around quite a bit inside the scoop when testing full throttle, I decided to add a torque strap to keep the engine from ripping out an engine mount;



I would highly recommend adding a torque strap to control engine motion; this made the whole car feel 'tighter'. 

I chose to make this strap have a little wiggle room 'at rest' -only a slight amount of slack there with the engine turned off.

Notice I tried to locate alignment of the strap with regard to direction of engine movement.

The single drilled hole in the upper corner of the driver's side frame area is through a double layer of steel there at that point, not to rip out.

*so far, with a test of time, this seems to be working just fine/no problems ~&~ all three engine mounts are protected from excessive twisting motion.

I made this torque strap from an unusable broken seat belt, but one may buy new by checking out axle travel limiter straps some 4wheeldrive people like to use

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Suspension/Limiting-Strap.aspx?t_c=1&t_s=101&t_pt=4145

...but, as much as possible, I want all AMC parts on my car!

I had the good fortune of making another trip to 'John's Auto Salvage Seguin, Tx. & bought and installed a .94" front sway bar (painted to match Addco rear bar) + finally installed the windshield wipers (finally found 90 degree distributor cap boots at local CarQuest);



The front bar fits 'just right' with AMC's Rambler 327 in the '73 AMC Gremlin!

(does not touch the custom made transmission lines/did not have to move them)

I drilled and tapped the stock frame mounts for one size larger attaching bolts, similar to Spirit/Concord AMX/GT handling package front bar...

Windshield wiper motor install is tight, but that was one critical thing I calculated for when I first made the engine mounts two years ago;




I really like the way the wiper motor hides behind the carbs not to pollute the look of the engine compartment. (Canon PowerShot allowed me to get a better pic of the throttle linkage than the Samsung Galaxy tablet I was using in the past)

It's time to tape up my wiring harness I guess, for looks & protection... I was leaving it that way just to make sure my adapted '75 AMC Gremlin Delco three wire alternator with battery in trunk is good (yes; after I ran the output of the alt to the factory splice/union 10" from the firewall port connector & back again to the full car length aluminum + battery cable my charging system/whole electrical system works very good/sense wire to alt light works etc no glitches... the aluminum cable is a weight savings device, I just coat the exposed ends with petroleum jelly to prevent instant oxidation of the aluminum & the bolt on connectors do not decay by corrosion > which is the main problem with any aluminum wiring ...such as corrosion prone aluminum distributor cap terminals/but aluminum is nevertheless a better conductor of electricity... the rather small battery stays full and has no problem cranking the XRV8 engine cold or hot)



I lucked out with this battery; it's a perfect fit there into the Gremlin's corner pocket. It can't slide around because it's surrounded sitting there. Yeah it still needs a hold down, then a cover, but that will come later when I finally put in a super light interior fabricated using 1/8" 'Gatorboard' covered with matching upholstery (but I want to get the exterior paint scheme final first)

edit; I can't seem to persuade myself to add weight to the car by putting a 'full interior' in it... just seems too 'people pleaser'-ish when I know that power to weight ratio is paramount; I like it like this... it feels sort of 'military'... bare bones... all business... no 'girly fingernail polish'... and I like being able to keep tabs on my unibody cavities -to keep them clean.
 




-------------
Link to XRV8 Race Parts website: www.amcramblermarlin.1colony.com


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/19/2016 at 11:33pm
deleted this second pic to speed up the thread
 


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/20/2016 at 12:36am
Getting started on fabricating intake manifold for 442.7 eXperimental Rambler V8 engine.








Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/20/2016 at 10:04pm
Using 'cut wire method' to measure circumference, diameter & area for associated sub-assemblies;



6.25" circumference = 1.98" diameter tube

I'll make cuts in sides of tubing to taper them down from 2.06" in plenum to 1.98" at entrance to intake port on heads...

-----------------------------

at this point I was considering to make an unusual high rise single plane type intake and showed a pic of the Carter Thermoquad parts carb I bought to use on it... but I deleted the plan for the intake when I discovered the intake tract entrances on my design were too small (sorry about that y'all but I trashed that idea and threw all those false start intake parts on the scrap pile)







Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/21/2016 at 5:09am
Geezo, I thought I was the only one brave to run a spread bore. Though I ran it on a Offy spread bore 360 non-dual port with a 1" spacer on a 304. It was a 650cfm Holley. I was told by everyone the combo was too big foe for the 304 in stock form. But it livened up well, once I jetted and restricted the squirters a wee bit.

It gave some good MPGs as well for not being setup to be a bit lean.



-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: Lucas660
Date Posted: Jan/21/2016 at 5:22am
I would run a spreadbore any day if I could find.... or in this case fabricate a manifold. It's not too big, I have ran a 800 cfm quadrajet on a Holden 308. It's a good choice in this case, considering it will see the street. Can't wait to see some pictures! I like that you have fabricated everything...true craftsmanship.


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/21/2016 at 6:21am
Ok yes thanks for your comments and examples.




Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/21/2016 at 7:08am
Ah, now I may have confused you on why I spaced with a 1 inch spacer on my setup. I had a stock 304 and over carbed with big intake. The additional plenum area was to allow velocity for the big carb.

Your small plenum may work for your build, but I would allow some space to allow mix between the two seconadaries under mid to high RPM use, as there is no guarantee each port will have equal characteristics. Like an adjacent port pulling a richer mix being closer to the ventri centerline.

You may get a better mix of sorts by spreading the pizza pie segments apart or elongating them with wee trianglular dividers that meet into a peak or cone in the center. Or just extend the runners to be the floor and lower half of the bowl. Using acute cut ends on your runners and forming them into a juicer shape. It is a way to have some plenum at lower volocity and create less disruption with a quasi isolated port, by using mini walls to disrupt some of the waves.

-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/22/2016 at 9:03pm
Thanks for your comment but I scratched that first idea later on that night when I calculated area of the triangles and found them to be too small. (deleted the pics etc)

I'd already made the 'no plenum' one into eight collector necks but threw them in the scrap pile/triangle shape would need to be expanded/could do it/it'd be fun but not now...


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/22/2016 at 10:41pm
Here's 442.7 CID XRV8's rotating assembly so far;



The welded up crank needs some more (edit: ?... a lot more!) detail work then it's ready to go to a machine shop.

All the 'pick of the litter' rods have been lightened and gotten their basic weight matching done;



These are the pistons I'm using; .030 TRW forged aluminum for Chevy Gen 1 400 (4.155" bore leaves approximate .1725" wall -will use block filler, oil temp gauge & if needed remote oil cooler system)



For more info on 442.7 CID eXperimental Rambler V8 engine see;

https://plus.google.com/u/0/106358430530058382730/posts/p/pub




Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/22/2016 at 11:00pm
Here's a batch of pics showing progress on 442.5 XRV8's intake manifold;

above left: this is my homemade engine hoist made for about $100 using used oil field drilling pipe sourced from a local lumberyard (primarily sold for making fence posts)
above right: this is my homemade tube bending fixture which adapts to the engine hoist ...showing the 'sand fill method' I use, which I was taught in my high school metal shop class (giving credit where credit is due to the excellent metal shop teacher)



-finished cutting borders flanges already, next batch of pics will show 2.06" tube taper to 1.98"?, die grinder work, pipe fitting etc.

amcramblermarlin.1colony.com

https://plus.google.com/u/0/106358430530058382730/posts/p/pub




Posted By: Slate
Date Posted: Jan/22/2016 at 11:08pm
I think what you are doing is awesome. There are some that think rodding this engine is a waste of time, but I'm not one of them. Cool engine and you are a cool person. Rock on.

Steve


Posted By: amxmachine
Date Posted: Jan/23/2016 at 12:16am
Originally posted by Slate Slate wrote:

I think what you are doing is awesome. There are some that think rodding this engine is a waste of time, but I'm not one of them. Cool engine and you are a cool person. Rock on.

Steve
X2Thumbs Up


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/23/2016 at 7:26am
WOW thanks y'all for the generous compliments.

I desire to stay humble & open minded... there seems to be a fine line between 'the good kinda pride' and 'the bad kinda pride'.


Posted By: Slate
Date Posted: Jan/23/2016 at 8:53am
You are the better man. I have no tact when constant criticism about a concept or pursuit stands in front of me. I get it that people oppose things, but after awhile they need to shut their pie holes. I can only imagine that when yours truly gets around to doing one of these engines that explosive will describe the atmosphere around the project...


Posted By: Slate
Date Posted: Jan/23/2016 at 9:23am
Why should others resent doing something apart from what they would do? If they aren't doing it, and believe that doing so is a fool's errand, why mind if somebody else is the "fool"? I think I know the answer, but leave the self-discovery of why to those that need to learn for themselves.

Listen, these engines opened the door to in-house V8 power for AMC and they are a classic. They paved the way. So what they aren't performance powerhouses. In reality neither are the later V8's. They have potential. And with careful rework the performance is rewarding. But these later engines, just like the Rambler V8, were designed to move passenger cars reliably. It's simply that the later designs benefitted from what was learned along the way from building the Rambler V8 and from what the competition was doing. 

The Rambler V8 was a grand engine amongst the competition and did very well for what it was designed for, economy of operation and smoothness. The failed efi pursuit nodded at what could have been. There's no reason not to apply efi now nor to do as you have done.

As to project cars appropriate to using a Rambler 8 well your car epitomizes the wise approach, pick a light car that can benefit from the basic grunt the engine offers. Interesting to me was stumbling across the apparently classic hot rod trick of taking the Nash Lemans Six out of the Nash Healey and shoveling in the Rambler V. The mod itself isn't mega surprising, just that the practice goes way back is. Of course esoterica such as Cadillac V8's found their way under the NH bonnet so why not some homegrown "muscle"? And why not the same for a Gremlin or Hornet?Wink


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Jan/23/2016 at 1:26pm
You're moving along quite well... I think I should have made a diagram to what I was thinking about an idea with the blending of the intake runners with triangles or angular cuts to extend into the bowl a wee bit. The triangles were to be small but long enough to meet in the center. Sort of like speed bumps, not big enough to block, but just enough to create anti turbulance from having small plenum area. You did say you did not want to make a big plenum.

-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/23/2016 at 8:47pm
Slate, thanks for your interesting perspectives, and accept my apology for lack of coherent replies; sometimes I get completely distracted from the outside world while doing these various fabrication tasks.

All these fabrication tasks are great psychotherapy for me on the straight and narrow road to permanent sobriety; it takes my mind off of everything else & I can do something constructive instead of destroying my life with drugs and alcohol.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

a few pics of work done while making intake manifold;






This is the block and heads I'm using using to make XRV8 G's next 442.7 CID engine.

*notice the block is getting all it's unusable 'extra' lumps of iron removed (inside and out) using an assortment of grinding tools (at this point, the old fifties style front engine mounts are still visible, but they are disappeared in future pics of this engine build)


Posted By: Slate
Date Posted: Jan/24/2016 at 1:57pm
What are your plans for the exhaust side?


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/25/2016 at 8:26am
Sorry to ignore your question Slate. I put some pics of the aggressively ported exhaust ports later on in the thread...
------------------------

I can fit my thumb through the exhaust port valve pockets now... (radical change from stock port shape) and since I feel they are worthy to run with 440+ CID... I'm also ignoring the need for a second, larger tube set of headers for the moment...

so this pic shows my crazy experimental combustion chambers and how I've flared out the side walls to help unshroud the valves, but with stock 4" bore... so they will get final flare work after the block gets bored to 4.155"

since the near max oversize 1.95" intake and 1.60" exhaust valves are result of Rambler V8's center to center valve spacing (without installing offset guides) I'm attempting to use that as an advantage because I can flare out the side walls of the chambers instead... so there could be even less shrouding when I finish these chambers by flaring them out to the 4.155" bored block  




Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/25/2016 at 8:40am
*compare this chamber to Chev LT1 & 'Vortec' designs (whereas Chevrolet LT V8 was able to revive swirl chamber design and get around excessive oxides of nitrogen toxic emission with fuel injection and catalytic converters)


-------------
Link to XRV8 Race Parts website: www.amcramblermarlin.1colony.com


Posted By: Slate
Date Posted: Jan/25/2016 at 10:20am
Since you are going against the traditional performance tide of thinking, it might be good to talk to JTSLLC1 about the exhaust side of things. Perhaps making exhaust spigots from the Rambler manifolds, or using later AMC V8 rectangular or even dogleg manifolds as spigot with 1&5/8ths or 1&3/4ths tubing might be the way. You appear to have excellent fab skills, maybe even making a spigot or shaped tube from pie cut sections out of the port fort the first 6 inches or so and then weld more conventional tubing to that is an option. 

Given your valve sizing, approach to induction, and the exhaust ports on the heads continuing the velocity theme through the exhaust would appear to be a nice complement to what you are doing elsewhere.

Steve


Posted By: Slate
Date Posted: Jan/25/2016 at 11:32am
And I went back a few pages and see/rekindled the memory that you already are using 1&5/8ths tubes.


Posted By: scott
Date Posted: Jan/25/2016 at 4:03pm
I see that on both of your intake manifolds you keep the exhaust crossover passage, even though it no longer provides heat for your intake as originally intended. Knowing that you are a thinking man, nothing done without research & planning behind it.  I am sure there is a reason why you have kept it, when it would be easier (less fabrication) to eliminate it. What is the reason for keeping it?? If I had to guess, I'd say it acts in a similar fashion to an H pipe further down the exhaust. Am I close???

Have you considered running pipes from the crossover ports in the heads under the intake manifold to the rear of the engine & connecting them to the headers?? Could that be a way to crutch the siamesed center exhaust ports??

I really enjoy what you are doing, keep the updates coming!!


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/25/2016 at 10:40pm
I deleted my extra long answer to Slate and Scott because it seemed tiring to read.

Making a long explanation much shorter, I believe most of the early US OHV V8 designer/engineers were deliberately trying to take advantage of the 180 degree exhaust pulses from 3 & 5 and 4 & 6 to aid scavenging, not just to heat the atomized mix from the carb.

It seems that, in the passage of time, original concern for proper 180 degree exhaust pulse tuning faded away as US V8 engine designs became more and more proven in their real world applications... nowadays, a true 180 degree tuned exhaust system is called 'exotic', whereas we are all become fond of the conventional 'US V8 sound' instead?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   

this intake manifold's tracts taper out from 1.98" to 2.06" with tubes formed like this;






-took this picture after completed taper for two tubes... then did the other six... then lost daylight

-can hardly wait to get all the tubes on there and build the plenum!


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/26/2016 at 4:59pm
I thought maybe if y'all like seeing my Rambler V8 stuff, y'all might enjoy these websites also;

http://www.uncommonengineering.com/

http://www.milleroffy.com/Racing%20History.htm

http://www.epi-eng.com/index.html


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/26/2016 at 11:27pm
I guess I should just go ahead and show some pics and descriptions of Rambler V8 engine parts, to help eliminate some of the mystery and/or wives tales.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE HEADS:

This is not true they are overweight.

Nor is it true the exhaust ports are too restrictive; it may only be one example but Dick Datsun and fellow members of that turbocharging website put Rambler V8 heads on a flow bench side by side with Buick 231 V6 heads & the numbers were nearly the same (the page they put together 20+ years ago on their website had pictures of both heads, showed how they flow tested them etc... sure wish I'd copied those pages!)

It is not true the Rambler V8 head design was 'carried over' from the Kaiser 288 V8 prototype (the heads are very different)

Rather, '56-'67 Rambler V8 heads are very similar to Cadillac's '49-'67 V8 heads (those Cad heads had two redesigns; once to widen the siamesed center exhaust port & second they were revised to make them lighter in '63 along with several other changes Cad made to make that engine weigh 599 lbs compared to Rambler V8's 601 generic weight). Moreover, RV8 heads look so similar to '53-'62 Cadillac heads it might even be said that AMC engineers apparently copied the Cadillac heads!




upper left; my '64 2bbl Rambler V8 heads        upper right; approx '59 Cadillac 390 heads

lower left; '64 RV8 heads on scale = 50 lbs. (same weight as small block Chevy head generic weight, hence RV8 head just looks heavy because it has a generous water jacket)    

lower right; '64 RV8 head with '73 401 valves = almost but not quite; original valve to valve centerline spacing in chamber width was made for 3.5" bore on 250 CID versions

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE BLOCK:

This is not true the Rambler V8 block is an overweight thickwall casting.

All three of the 4bbl 327 blocks I've owned have solid main webs.

The one 2bbl 327 block I own has 'windowed' main webs.

Rambler V8 blocks have the Hudson 'X' design main webs, which disproves the crank case is a 'carry over' design from Kaiser 288 V8 prototype (Kaiser 288 crankcase is 'tighter' like Ford Y-block)

(Compare RV8 crankcase to pictures of Hudson inline six on Uncommon Engineering's website & the main webs themselves look nearly identical they way they are gusseted and make the 'x' shape around the crank support areas, hence the Rambler V8 may be called a 'Rambler 5X V8 engine' because it has the wider looking Hudson X style main webs)




upper left; '64 2bbl 327 windowed block; 10" deck with plenty of room in there for more stroke (consider Moldex billet crank?/RV8 crank is very similar to Chev Big block so no odd ball engine problem there for Moldex)      

upper right; Mopar 440 RB block, deep skirt crank gallery width and main webs is very similar to AMC's Rambler V8 (Ford Y-block deep skirt crankcase width is more narrow like Kaiser prototype 288 (and those two engines have a fully counterweighted crankshaft instead) hence No; AMC's Rambler V8 block is not a 'carry over' design from the Kaiser 288 prototype, rather it is very similar to Mopar 'B' or 'RB' V8 engine block)

lower left; I weighed my '64 2bbl windowed block on a bathroom scale (sorry about the poor quality picture) = 178 lbs. -whereas generic small block Chevy block weighs 180!

lower right; Buick 455 windowed crankcase gallery... this makes me feel confident about building the 442.7 CID Rambler V8 engine using the '64 2bbl 327 block.




-------------
Link to XRV8 Race Parts website: www.amcramblermarlin.1colony.com


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/28/2016 at 8:34pm
OK made some progress on the intake manifold;



...was planning to mimic the shape of the valve covers for the plenum. Much time consuming detail work to do...







Posted By: Slate
Date Posted: Jan/28/2016 at 11:28pm
Nice engine comparisons also the elongated exhaust "shelf'" appears, in a way, to carry the port shape concept JTSLLC1 
patented for the later engines. With a short continuation past the port into your headers I think the velocity concept would work well.

Are you considering turbo action up the road?

Steve


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/29/2016 at 7:36am
Another one of your keen observations Slate: 

Yes, this combo does seem to indicate turbocharging to bring out the best of it's component parts.

But no, for now I'm not planning to add any more complexity to a 'simple' carbureted version ...because the hurdle to complete the short block is already high enough for me to do this on my own money without going into debt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 4-3-6-5 intake tract recoil pulses should gobble one another in sequence and the 1-8 & 7-2 pulses should make an 'x' communication through the center of the plenum, whereas this is how I've deliberately aligned the intake tracts on this example. (plenum top cover will be made to function accordingly)

I remember reading about someone who was advocating the benefits of a a unique AM V8 exhaust header inlet/exhaust port extension, and they indicated they were going to make them for sale to other AMCers, but I haven't heard of any more about it since...

I think the easiest way to describe Rambler V8 exhaust ports is to say 'they emerge from the valve pocket through horizontal shapes, then transition to vertical shapes midway to exit'...

Those heads seen in the preceding pics have their exhaust port passageways ported out to the point of where I'm too spooked to go any further; I broke through in two places (the 'break through' areas are already repaired/brazed shut) I'm pretty sure they are getting rather thin in certain areas; the short side radius and the mid point of the port floors where there is a water jacket 'hump' there... *the outlets are not gasket matched to the custom made headers -that'll be done during the engine replacment, when the headers are out...

It's kinda jumping out of sequence to post pics of the exhaust port porting work I've done at this point in the thread? but I'll go ahead and post my last pics I took right before I treated the ports with phosphoric acid to keep them from forming instant rust (so now they look black, instead of orange, which they would if I didn't treat them immediately)


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/29/2016 at 8:07am
These are some pics I took after I put many hours into hogging out the exhaust ports, but they are not 'final' porting pics (more work has been done since... the outlets are not yet gasket matched to the custom headers...)

*the stock Rambler V8 exhaust port end ports are the same size as the '66-69 AM V8 rectangular exhaust port dimensions (I've double checked the sizes by using a later AM V8 header gasket = they are the same size, rectangle to rectangle)





Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/29/2016 at 8:30am
Necessity is the mother of invention? -I bought a new electric die grinder for this head porting project & long shank carbide burr w 'egg shape' tip. I cut the long shank down to about 5 inches -to where it reaches, to touch the middle area of these exhaust ports... but... there is a very real problem with 'kick back' = this is where the cutting tip bounces around rather violently, a causes a loss of control, if not a safety hazard to the operator. (wordy thing to describe)

...long story much shorter, I was able to devise my own variable speed rig by splicing in a ceiling fan rheostat into the piggy tail of a Dayton 6 amp foot pedal > this work great to slow down the die grinder & enables much better control & safety when using the longer shank burr.

...then I was able to make my own long shank porting stones by using cut lengths of old fuel line tubing, using solder to splice in extensions.

...not advice, but I can 'true up' the DIY extended shank porting stones on my drill press & even re-shape the mounted stone using an ordinary angle grinder, as the stone spins in the press (safety hazard/can't recommend doing this to general public)

-with homemade extensions & the generic shaped mounted stones cut down to a '3/8" football shape' + being able to slow down the electric die grinder using the rheostat > this enabled me to port the mid section of these exhaust ports (and the 'store bought' long shank carbide burr works so much better at slow speed also)   

(all pics upside down) first pic; end port, second pic; center port looking one direction, third pic; center port center view, forth pic; opposite end port from first pic

-water jacket bulge midway on roof is minimized

-short side radius is mostly removed (!) as seen done to Mopar RB heads which also have 'horizontal rectangle' port pocket exit shape (still difficult to see entire 'horizontal rectangle' shape of RV8 exhaust ports in these pics) ...but after this much porting work, I can fit my fat thumb through the port pocket into the mid portion of the port now... I don't have an inside micrometer or I'd be doing that as I go along to make sure they're all the same but I think I have them close enough, judging the size/areas by how the porting bits fit into the ports... (measure the mounted stone & this is 'the gauge' for the area)

I've put a lot of work into these heads; they are '66 'smog' heads... the air injection bungs are gone (for California only that year, but all the other 49 state cars got clogged ports to reduce their efficiency! = doesn't seem 'right' but that's how it worked out that year according to the law anyway)


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jan/29/2016 at 8:40am
pic taken to show combustion chamber widened to 4", specifically relieved walls around valves to reduce shrouding (where more narrow valve stem center to center spacing plausibly has advantage by moving valves away from flow interference caused by too close proximity to cylinder wall)

*notice stock Rambler V8 exhaust port pocket is... not the same... dramatically changed by removing the short side radius and raising the roof (I think they are worthy now for 440 CID)



 


Posted By: Slate
Date Posted: Jan/29/2016 at 8:57am
Yes, mods made initially before manufacturers had the opportunity to fashion reasonable responses to state and federal emissions regs is that governments should not be determining such things.


Posted By: Hurst390
Date Posted: Jan/29/2016 at 9:46am
If you have a stone seat grinder I would enlarge the chamber on the top cut with a bigger od stone.

-------------
SC/Hurst Rambler

11.62 120

100% Street Legal


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Feb/01/2016 at 3:49am
Yes; the seats are only worked this far (as seen in pic) making 'throat cuts' & thank you for the encouraging advice.



Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Feb/01/2016 at 4:46am
here's pics of yesterday's activity (lucky me; my neighbors are very gracious to tolerate me attempting to wear out all my loud/obnoxious metalworking power tools > that can be a very real problem otherwise!)







-a medium riser tunnel ram... *this is built based upon my experiences with the 327's current independent runner intake where I've witnessed ping pong ball sized 'stand off' hovering above each carb throat (the intake tract recoil charges 'find a plenum' above the carburetors in the free air space above the carbs instead)

In this case, with the larger 442.7 CID, the intake tracts are made having taper to enable larger gulps of mixture, but will spit their recoil charges back and forth, invisibly, inside the plenum, where I've attempted to aim all the intake tracts at one another to trade the 'ping pong balls' with one another according to the 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 firing order... where 1-8 & 7-2 will gulp/spit their mixes into/with the violent churning action that should be occurring in the center underneath the Mopar 440 850 cfm Carter Thermoquad... we shall see how it runs... of course I won't be able to resist testing it on the 327! (certainly the jetting will be wrong etc, but just to get it's basic ready to run set up/linkages air filter fitment to custom hood etc)

The plenum made this way is easily converted to run a variety of multi-carb setups.

I sized this plenum 'on the small side' with intent for 'velocity' = strongest signal to carb with plenum as such... it's as tall as the intake ports are wide > borrowed that measurement for the plenum space, thinking to keep a similar total area for all eight tracts in the plenum (larger plenum volume would serve higher rpm/more expensive valvetrain & require excessive-for-street-use-high stall torque converter because of poor idle quality) ...so much speculation at this point...

Not shown in these pics is first custom cabinet plywood carb spacer which I plan to make today, which will also be done to correct carb angle (then I can braze/weld in the nuts for the carb stud/bolts) so floats are level and air filter is parallel to hoodline...




Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Feb/01/2016 at 9:09pm
Fabricating carb spacer

 
Pencil tracing carb base        cut out, determine size        choose/spread glue

    clamp, lunch break      spray glue onto plywood block          drill holes

     cut bigger holes                    base angled to level carb

quality is up to individual... wood makes good insulator, to keep carb cool

I'll dress this one up with JB Weld (wood filler does not work as good) give a final sand & paint it black? to match the Thermoquad's black main body...


Posted By: Slate
Date Posted: Feb/02/2016 at 9:04am
Make sure spacer is treated/painted with a coating resistant to fuel. 

This design process is beyond awesome. Genius in picking materials that you have on hand, or are cheap, yet perfect for the job. You take the basic and fashion it into art!


Steve


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Feb/03/2016 at 9:19am
Yes Slate, good tip; it needs to be sealed or it'll wick vapors (inner and outer atmospheres)

AMC 232 258 inline six carburetor swap adapter three one barrel carburetors Autolite Motorcraft 2100 2150 two barrel carburetor tri-power intake manifold

Uncommon Engineering; http://www.uncommonengineering.com/

Miller Offenhauser racing engine; http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Speedway-Motors-Museum-of-American-Speed.htm

AMC's '66-'91 V8 engine design is closely related to Buick's '62 V8 design, Buick V6 and Rover V8  hash tags British V8 British Leyland RV8 V8 MG


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Feb/03/2016 at 9:37pm
AMC Gremlin AMC 327 Rambler V8 tunnel ram intake manifold Carter Thermoquad  ported heads 1.95" intake valves 1.60" exhaust valves reworked combustion chambers

442.5 CID XRV8 Gremlin (experimental Rambler V8 engine: 4.155" bore x 4.08" stroke)


 sndpaper taped to table           sealer applied          tedious detailing for no leaks

    weld on plenum top                     test fit          order small parts for carb & gaskets

-plenum is sized small (as tall as the ports are wide) with intention to tune for total volume with experimental carb spacers... the way the runners are angled, the intake charge recoil pulses should communicate well to create violent plenum mixing action

-plenum top is easily cut off to weld on pyramid or new plate for three twos or dual guads


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Feb/06/2016 at 8:15am
For comparison of intake design; http://www.weinlemotorsports.com/page.php?page=Profiler_Manifolds

I think I like the lightweight Holley 4360 for dual quad plenum top modification (x2 = 900 cfm) + these carbs don't have any type of rubber diaphragm metering circuit (no rubber part to rot out, except for accelerator pump cup) which should work well with new gas & part time storage/intermittent down time ...the two spreadbore configurations should match this base well for best fuel distribution...


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Feb/06/2016 at 8:46am
Gosh, about what you did with the runner ports... didnt think you would go that far, as my idea of adding directional side walls to sorten your plenum floor seems far and away for what you have accomplished. Great idea to blend and angle to counter act the negative pulses.

By the way... a Dodge boy told me long ago, that tunnel rams work better with a single big carb than with duals. So you may find better low to mid range responce with a single carb, and may opt to stay that way.

Another idea, mostly because of symetry... if you can make a linkage to mount the carb sideways to keep big and little venturi front and rear.

-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Feb/07/2016 at 2:31pm
Thanks for your positive reply! I like your 'thinking outside the box' ideas -this is an element of scientific experimentation; to try different ideas for comparison to the established model, -pass or fail this only adds to a cumulative knowledge base about what works and what doesn't. -science!

Moreover, 'luck' is found by that person who simply keeps trying different things until they 'get lucky' (the winner), but it's called 'bad luck' when a person is (easily) defeated by 'the problem' (the loser)... -psychology!

...and what is a 'problem', but another opportunity for improvement? and a 'mistake' but another lesson learned? (assuming ability to learn) -philosophy!


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Feb/07/2016 at 2:45pm
a few intake comparison pics




Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Feb/07/2016 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by amcenthusiast amcenthusiast wrote:

Thanks for your positive reply! I like your 'thinking outside the box' ideas -this is an element of scientific experimentation; to try different ideas for comparison to the established model, -pass or fail this only adds to a cumulative knowledge base about what works and what doesn't. -science!

Moreover, 'luck' is found by that person who simply keeps trying different things until they 'get lucky' (the winner), but it's called 'bad luck' when a person is (easily) defeated by 'the problem' (the loser)... -psychology!

...and what is a 'problem', but another opportunity for improvement? and a 'mistake' but another lesson learned? (assuming ability to learn) -philosophy!




Well, if I had skills like yours in welding, I would have a pile of odd intake designs. Though my first may be the better. So far nobody has followed back on my few comments of a Ford development T/A design that I had thought I had thought of first... but I was way too young to know any better.

Basically you make the intake runners flow sequentially the firing order. It is a snake nest of sorts and a bit tall. The plenum is a bowl that allows a vortex to help force against negative forces.

I have tried my best to find any pictures of it on the net, which is hard to do these days. I may have to make a mockup with my cad graphical skills when I get my laptop out of mothballs.

Your angled cross sectonal ports would work well in the floor and lower sides of the vortex bowl.

-------------
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Feb/07/2016 at 3:04pm
  
someone snagged the stock Holley of my junkyard sourced 2bbl 327 so I'm showing

this Economaster with it instead -intake weighs about 26 lbs carb about 7 lbs

There are no 4bbl Rambler V8 intakes at my local AMC Rambler junkyard (gone)
I think the four hole spacer may give the carb a stronger signal in order to try this
large plenum on the 327, then convert the spacer to open type/make it richer for
442.7 CID -rough guesses based on experience with current individual runner intake
  
Carter Thermoquad weighs less than Holley two barrel; only 6 lbs... + my fabricated
intake total weight is only 18 lbs!
 
made carb spacer to align air filter with hoodline using carpenter's angle tool, the
spacer also prevents the large secondary butterflies from interrupting plenum churning
action that should be happening as the intake tract charges communicate their recoil pulses
to one another in an 'x' pattern inside the plenum (see above pics of tract arrangement)


I already have plans to make the next intake to experiment with...



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