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Model15 twin grip pinion seal

Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Transmission & Drivetrain
Forum Description: If it's between the engine and wheels, it goes here
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72648
Printed Date: Mar/29/2024 at 7:45am
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Topic: Model15 twin grip pinion seal
Posted By: 232jav3sp
Subject: Model15 twin grip pinion seal
Date Posted: Aug/14/2015 at 1:51pm
I need help finding the pinion seal for a model15 twin grip unit. The AMC part number is 3128171. I've gotten plenty of parts numbers, including: National, Napa, SKF, Felpro, Chrysler, et... But, they are all obsolete. Looking on National's website, I can find a pinion seal that they say is correct, however, the dimensions aren't correct.

These are the dimensions of the seal I need.

Inside Diameter: 25.4 mm,1 in

Outside Diameter: 71.55 mm,2.817 in

Width: 29.36 mm,1.156 in


The seal has what appears to be a 5/8" shoulder that sticks out past the housing, and is where the actual seal for the pinion shaft is located. The pinion yoke then has a shield that goes over that shoulder.



Replies:
Posted By: 232jav3sp
Date Posted: Aug/18/2015 at 5:11pm
Wow... fourteen views and no one knows of where to find this elusive seal? lol


Posted By: carnuck
Date Posted: Aug/19/2015 at 2:23am
Who made the AMC seal? I can't find that number even on Milspec sites. 1" ID?    

What's it out of?                                                      

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Got an Eagle?
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Posted By: 232jav3sp
Date Posted: Aug/20/2015 at 5:03pm
Last week, I emailed Kennedy American and I got a reply yesterday. I had given them the part number on the seal, and they gave me the "updated" AMC part number, told me that they have several still in stock, and that they are a whopping $65!!! Will just have to wait a little bit until I get paid. As of right now, it doesn't leak, and the car isn't on the road. But, knowing that I can get it is a big relief.


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Aug/21/2015 at 6:13am
The "big nut" driveshaft Americans used that stepped seal, but I didn't think any others did. Or is that what you're working on? I'm not sure if the big cars with torque tube used a stepped seal or not, don't think the 63-64 Classic with 196 did. As you discovered, no one makes that stepped seal any more, since it hasn't been used since 1963 in the American. That's why the steep price.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: 232jav3sp
Date Posted: Aug/21/2015 at 7:20am
This is a twin grip rear I got from Typhooner. I had to do some alterations to the axle tubes for it to be the proper width for my Javelin. The rear is in GREAT condition and I don't want an old seal to fail and ruin it. Thankfully, that is the only thing that differs between it and all other AMC15 units.


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Aug/22/2015 at 7:49am
It's possible to make an adapter to use a different seal. The shield on the driveshaft will have to go though. You need a piece of steel tubing sized to press in where the original seal goes, and extend out to place a standard flat seal out where the front of the original seal is. I said possible, not easy! Getting a piece of tubing sized (may have to turn down OD a bit) to fit the original mount area is easy enough, sizing the ID to fit another seal is a bit tougher. 

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Frank Swygert


Posted By: 232jav3sp
Date Posted: Aug/22/2015 at 3:06pm
I've given a little bit of thought to that. Making a pipe to fit won't be hard for me. After all, I do have a hydraulic pipe bender, with all of the expanders and reamers. The hardest part may actually be finding a seal that works for the pinion and the pipe. If once can't be found I'd have to step the pipe size down for a seal to fit. But, unless it's tried, I'll never know.


Posted By: typhooner
Date Posted: Aug/23/2015 at 8:33am
Can you post the seal number? I might know of a place that can get you one. If you can give me both the old and the new #.

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1969 Hurst SC/Rambler A Scheme
1969 Rebel Raider Electric Green    1962 IH/AMC SC/out


Posted By: 232jav3sp
Date Posted: Aug/23/2015 at 9:46am
Old number, 3128171. New, 3203580.


Posted By: typhooner
Date Posted: Aug/23/2015 at 2:39pm
i'll check on Monday.

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1969 Hurst SC/Rambler A Scheme
1969 Rebel Raider Electric Green    1962 IH/AMC SC/out


Posted By: Ram Air Rick
Date Posted: Aug/10/2017 at 5:54pm
Was there ever any resolution here?

Need one myself. Could use the information.

Rich C.


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Aug/11/2017 at 6:24am
That high priced seal is it. It's an AMC only seal. I thought it was only used with the "big nut" driveshaft used through 65 (I'd previously said 63... a mistake!) in Americans with the 195.6 engine. Apparently it was kept through 1969 on cars with the AMC 15 and a bolt-on yoke as well. 

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Frank Swygert


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Aug/11/2017 at 7:19am
I rebuilt the rear differential in my Eagle - that's a 15. I didn't pay much at all for a pinion seal.
I will say that when looking for the crush sleeve be very careful - the books at MOST stores are wrong, very wrong. I finally went to O'Reilly's where I could order the crush sleeve and not accept it if it was wrong. I had them order two, went in the next day with my old crush sleeve and compared and good news - what they claim is for a 20 was actually the CORRECT part for the Eagle differential. 
It seems that when one store has things wrong, they all copy from the same source and I found all parts stores listed it wrong, claiming an Eagle had a 20 style crush sleeve. 
I have a spare crush sleeve for a 20 and they are quite different. 
So their book says the crush sleeve should not work, but it was actually correct.
Watch out for this on seals, too.
I'd have to look again to see how my later Eagle differential seal and bearing parts compare to what you have. 
If the seal is bad be very sure to check the bearings. I am glad I did as if I hadn't, I'd have been stranded on the road one day but shredded bearings. 

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Posted By: amc67rogue
Date Posted: Aug/11/2017 at 7:29pm
All of the American model 15 rear ends used the torque tube style   ring & pinions. That seal fits the big nut and the bolt on style yokes.

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Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Aug/12/2017 at 11:07am
SIMILAR to torque tube ring and pinion, but not the same. The open drives without the big nut driveshaft yoke (65-69 199/232) use a pinion with a threaded end for a nut to retain the yoke. The big nut yoke (used only with 196 powered cars IIRC) doesn't have that -- the big nut is on a tapered thread and clamps to the pinion shaft. That nut is supposed to be tightened to 300 ft/lbs!!

1970 and later AMC 15 axles use a different (flat) seal -- through 69 they use the same seal as the big nut yoke does, which is a stepped seal used only by AMC.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: amc67rogue
Date Posted: Aug/12/2017 at 11:42am
That is true . The pinion used with the bolt on yoke was drilled and taped 1/2-20 for a bolt.

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Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code


Posted By: Prince
Date Posted: Sep/10/2019 at 6:34pm
Hi everyone.

This seal is rare as hen's teeth, and when you do find it, it's very expensive.
The place i found that sold it wanted $39 for the seal another $50 for shipping and then some more for taxes.

Feeling that I would feel stupid paying that much, and combining that with my lack of patience in transit time, I decided to make a seal.

It is not too difficult. I went to a local metal supply store, and got a pipe that was a little over 70mm OD. Some of the other pipes I needed I was able to use from a leftover custom built driveshaft.

I had to shorten the 70mm OD pipe by cutting it, and then welding it together again, without warping. The size has to be not too tight, and not too loose wither.
It would have been easier removing some of the OD with a lathe.
Then I used another pipe on the inside, welded it, and the finally another with a 25mm ID.
I then used 2 metric seals purchased on ebay (25mm=1inch).

The advantage of this seal is that it was not only cheaper, but much stronger than the original one, as each of the pipes has a thickness of about 5mm. When the time comes to change the seal again, the standard flat seal can easily be replaced whilst still using the same housing.

Unfortunately, I lost the picture I had.

I've got a video on youtube showing how it was done, if it helps anyone:

How to make or adapt a National 3128171 pinion-differential oil seal for 1963 Rambler American

If anyone wishes to buy one, let me know!




Posted By: Prince
Date Posted: Sep/10/2019 at 6:45pm
The thing that disappoints me on the original seal is that oil was leaking not through the seal itself, but rather through the 2nd wall that is on the face of the seal. This 2nd wall is only spot welded onto the main housing and so any deformations on the thin wall of the housing will cause a leak.

Its just a really bad seal. I appreciate the steel housing, but the workmanship and design are terrible.
The only thing that is worst than a bad part is a part that is bad but looks good, which is this seal.

Anyways, with the new custom seal, the actual rubber seal is now easily replaced, and easily obtained.


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Sep/11/2019 at 6:32am
You might want to make a couple of those and advertise them here and send a note to AMCRC. As you noted, the seals are hard to come by, and then they are likely to be 20+ years old to boot, so they may not last long.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Sep/11/2019 at 10:26am
It's a name-game problem; try 'Dana 35' pinion seal...

...also do a websearch on how to seal the splines on the yoke; that's the other half of the re-sealing issue. ('done proper', the pinion seal should be a 'one time installation thing' along with measuring the amount of crush on the crush sleeve...)

...almost guaranteed, if you don't put some type of sealer on the splines, it'll leak from behind the pinion yoke nut... then you'll have to do it all over again...


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