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Rollmaster Timing Set issues

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Category: The Garage
Forum Name: AMC V8 Engine Repair and Modifications
Forum Description: AMC-made V8 engine mechanical, ignition and fuel from basic repair to high-perf modifications
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66945
Printed Date: Mar/28/2024 at 11:45pm
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Topic: Rollmaster Timing Set issues
Posted By: SC397
Subject: Rollmaster Timing Set issues
Date Posted: Jan/19/2015 at 3:52pm
Rollmaster is probably one of the best timing sets that you can buy but here we go again. They changed it. Why? Well it is not to make it better for sure. They put a ,052" x .0190" slot right where where we don't want it! The new one has the slot right at the oil transfer hole to the distributor gear. Here is a picture of a older one beside the new one with the slot. We used the older one. Expecting to be disappointed in the answer, I might call them up to ask why they changed it.  I just recieved 3 more new sets and they are all the same way.  The fix is to Heli-Arc the slot shut and machine it flat again.  I will post up a "after" picture soon.
http://s625.photobucket.com/user/SC397/media/002_zps548b9a45.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">

Read more: http://rebsamcandjeep.proboards.com/thread/11/amc-engine-builds?page=15#ixzz3PJ3zObMt" rel="nofollow - http://rebsamcandjeep.proboards.com/thread/11/amc-engine-builds?page=15#ixzz3PJ3zObMt



Replies:
Posted By: needafasterAMX
Date Posted: Jan/19/2015 at 4:18pm
That is exactly what the one I put in my mine was like. I soldered the key-way and oil transfer slot up.

When I soldered the oil transfer slot I also did the little grove from the transfer oil slot(front of sprocket)  to the other slots so it would not feed them.


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74 AMX, 401
Viper spec T56 6 speed trans
Hydroboost brakes with rear disks from a Avenger
3:73 TG rear,now Trutrac with 3:15
A Turbo is in my future.


Posted By: kirkwood
Date Posted: Jan/19/2015 at 5:07pm
did they say why they changed it?

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AMO Newsletter Editor


Posted By: Rebel Machine
Date Posted: Jan/19/2015 at 5:17pm
Ran into that last summer in my "AMX 401 Take 5" thread.

I welded up the oiling slots and had them ground flush. Then I put my own two light grooves in so it matches the Cloyes gear.



Something else you might want to look out for is the beveled edge that meets the fuel pump eccentric. It's a bit wider than the original so if you have the older two-piece eccentric the curved backside might not completely seal against the timing gear.





-Steve-



Posted By: 74Bubblefender
Date Posted: Jan/19/2015 at 7:28pm
I am not quite sure what the complaint is the slots on the front sidelube the chain and the fuel pump eccentric...sort of like the crank lubes the cylinder walls.

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Posted By: 401MATCOUPE
Date Posted: Jan/19/2015 at 7:52pm
The factory AMC Police Cloyes Cam Gear (S-444) and Aftermarket Cloyes Cam Gear S-412 both have 6 small radial grooves from the center, including one directly on the main oil path.  I put either of these timing sets in every engine I have built for 20 years and a couple of Jeep 360's that now have over 100K miles on them (not a single issue or wiped dist gear).  I thought the big deal was the poor casting of the oil transfer hole that starved/blocked oil from reaching the distributor drive gear.  If oil is not sprayed out these slots on to the chain...not sure that would be a good thing...is the thought too much oil pressure loss?????  Just trying to learn/understand.....please.

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Ross K. Peterson
68X,GoPac,343,AT,52A(1stCar)
68X,GoPac,390,4sp,52A
69X,GoPac,390,4sp,64A
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,87A,8
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,BBO,8
70 Jav SST,390,AT,BSO
74MatX,401,AT,Prototype
74MatX,401,AT


Posted By: Rebel Machine
Date Posted: Jan/19/2015 at 8:24pm
I did some testing last summer using the oil pump sectioned from a timing case. I observed the amount of oil flowing out of the timing gear slots and out of the distributor drive. The timing gear slots were flowing pretty heavily, especially the slot that intersects the oil passage. The distributor drive was being starved. I have to think the distributor drive is also going to fling oil all over the eccentric and timing chain.

I can provide video if you'd like to see it.

-Steve-



Posted By: sleekcrafter
Date Posted: Jan/19/2015 at 8:52pm
I have a .020 hole in the galley plug, that sprays oil on the distributor gear.

   The Oldsmobile's used to have one on each end, one for timing, and one for the Distributor gear.

     I'm not so concerned  about the oil holes in the cam/gear, as long as there is oil via, the sprayer on the plug, seemed to be a hokey way of oiling, jmo...


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1974 401 4 SPEED JAVELIN

http://theamcforum.com/forum/underdog-74-javelin-project_topic66835.html

Past rides:
73 360 MT AMX
75 258 AT Coupe
74 304 AT Coupe
68 343 AT JAVELIN SST
69 390 MT AMX GO-PAK


Posted By: tsanchez
Date Posted: Jan/19/2015 at 9:08pm
Gm did a hole in gallery plugs to bleed air not to oil anything

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http://s192.photobucket.com/user/antonsan/media/jav1_zps87a70dce.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: 401MATCOUPE
Date Posted: Jan/20/2015 at 6:59am
The Cloyes gear grooves are not very deep, compared to the "big" slot in the Rollmaster, the factory AMC "non'roller" gear has the slots too.  I can provide dimensions if that would help too.

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Ross K. Peterson
68X,GoPac,343,AT,52A(1stCar)
68X,GoPac,390,4sp,52A
69X,GoPac,390,4sp,64A
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,87A,8
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,BBO,8
70 Jav SST,390,AT,BSO
74MatX,401,AT,Prototype
74MatX,401,AT


Posted By: 69 ambassador 390
Date Posted: Jan/20/2015 at 8:14am
Rollmasters lose quite a bit of oil at the roller bearing thrust when using them with roller cams.  I cannot see the need for the extra oiling slots at all.  All the oil returnning to the pan right over the lower crank sprocket and backing up behind the cover, slingers and front main cap at the oil pan is all the oiling the chain could ever need.  Anything more is just wasted capacity. 

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Steve Brown

Algonac, Mi.

69 Ambassador sst 390

84 Grand Wagoneer

69 Cougar XR7

65 Fairlaine 500XL

79 F-350 Super Camper Special





Posted By: Hurst390
Date Posted: Jan/20/2015 at 8:49am
Originally posted by tsanchez tsanchez wrote:

Gm did a hole in gallery plugs to bleed air not to oil anything
I'm not sure I agree with that..I am building an olds 455 right now and that plug in the rear oils the dist gear...cause I haven't seen any other way it can get oiling...if ya'll think an amc is bad stay away from an olds engine

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SC/Hurst Rambler

11.62 120

100% Street Legal


Posted By: tsanchez
Date Posted: Jan/20/2015 at 9:02am
Jim that could be correct, on big chevies they are in front and used to bleed air out for reduced noise.

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http://s192.photobucket.com/user/antonsan/media/jav1_zps87a70dce.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: 401MATCOUPE
Date Posted: Jan/20/2015 at 9:41am
i took some pics of the Cam Gears I have and find these oil slots interesting.

First Pic is Cloyes S-412, Second Pic is S-444, Third is factory AMC Gear with AMC P/N...the grooves in it are narrow and shallow, in comparison to all the others, which would result in more oil pressure to the distributor drive gear.  Not sure if this helps this conversation.....





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Ross K. Peterson
68X,GoPac,343,AT,52A(1stCar)
68X,GoPac,390,4sp,52A
69X,GoPac,390,4sp,64A
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,87A,8
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,BBO,8
70 Jav SST,390,AT,BSO
74MatX,401,AT,Prototype
74MatX,401,AT


Posted By: 73hornut
Date Posted: Jan/20/2015 at 3:49pm
I can't see the need for any of these grooves, as the outer edge of the sprocket would interfere with most all chain lubrication.

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71 Javelin
74 Gremlin
79 Spirit AMX
Rogue Valley Rumblers
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Posted By: Rebel Machine
Date Posted: Jan/20/2015 at 5:05pm
This is a Cloyes true double roller sprocket.

-Steve-





Posted By: SC397
Date Posted: Mar/10/2015 at 8:36pm
The new Rollmaster has even larger groves.  I have sent them a email but of coarse, no response.  As with the rest, I weld the slots shut and smooth them out..
http://s625.photobucket.com/user/SC397/media/001_zps1dtpxfvh.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
http://s625.photobucket.com/user/SC397/media/005_zps8ooms9xs.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">   



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