R154 adapted to AMC kit feeler
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Topic: R154 adapted to AMC kit feeler
Posted By: 71hornet6
Subject: R154 adapted to AMC kit feeler
Date Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 12:02am
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Intro: -The AX15 is a great Japanese 5 speed native to the 4.0L and easily bolts to AMC with the right parts. http://theamcforum.com/forum/72-amc-258-to-2wd-ax15-5-speed-part-by-part-list_topic52260.html" rel="nofollow - http://theamcforum.com/forum/72-amc-258-to-2wd-ax15-5-speed-part-by-part-list_topic52260.html -The R150 and R154 are closely related to the AX15, with slightly different gearing, but they have the same gear box housing and trans face that bolts to the 4.0L bell. The AX15 and R150 are truck trans with a slow first gear so they are not suited for an AMC hot rod passenger car. -The R154, however, is geared for a sports car. It was originally found in the Toyota Supra Turbo MKIII ('86.5-92), which has a similar power to weight ratio and rear gearing as a hot rod AMC. This gear box is venerated by hot rodders as the "other" trans swap for weird projects rat rodded using the amazing number of bellhousings that use this trans to bell bolt pattern. (Warning: the below link contains enough information and possibilities to make your head explode.) http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=4740" rel="nofollow - http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=4740 The R154 can be adapted to AMC as it bolts to the AX15 bell and has a similar input shaft.  Below you can see my 2WD AX15 and R154 swapping bellhousings http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/P4071013_zpse9771e47.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Assuming I could adapt the R154 5 speed to AMC, via a large collection of available parts, including lots of stock AX15 parts, who would want one? The clutch side of the R154 could be adapted with AX15 parts and an available pilot bearing and clutch disc via Advance Adapters. The rear half of the R154 could be replaced with a 2wd AX15 main shaft and tail housing to put the shifter in more optimal position. http://theamcforum.com/forum/ax15-shifter-options_topic58500_page2.html?KW=r154" rel="nofollow - http://theamcforum.com/forum/ax15-shifter-options_topic58500_page2.html?KW=r154 Obviously you can wait until I make this weird hybrid transmission before you say you want one... I'm asking to get a feel for demand. It's hard to find cores and if there were maybe 4 other people interested I could start stocking up on cores whenever they were available and make 5 of them. [I currently have 2 R154 and 1 2WD AX15 plus bell etc. but have access to one more R154 and could grab maybe 2 more 2WD AX15 setups.] It would be good to plan ahead for this if people are interested since neither the R154 or 2WD AX15 are very common. I'm more interested in doing it for the love of AMC than to make money. An adapted R154 could fill a large gap in available AMC transmissions between a T-5z (330 ft.lbs torque) and expensive Viper-spec T56 (can be built up to 800 ft.lbs) or Richmond transmission setups. If you have no idea what I'm talking about - that's OK. I've been getting WAY into it. If you know what I'm talking about and are interested - post here or send me a message. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Replies:
Posted By: garsod
Date Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 2:31am
| PM Sent |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 12:49pm
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This is where the input shaft tip is relative to the bell on the AX15 http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/P4071024_zpsf7e796de.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  This is the R154 in the AX15 bell. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/P4071023_zps6d23dcc3.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  It's not very clear but the R154 input shaft is 5/16" shorter. BUT - that's "just the tip". The splines on both are basically even. So we just need a pilot bearing that sticks out 5/16". Not bad at all. You should see the stuff they pull on Pirate4x4. Advance Adapters has one that is 1" wide, 1.5" long, with the Toyota bearing in the middle. May need to be shaved down a bit in length but hey, I got a chop saw and a metal blade... or something like that. Click the pic for the link: http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/716149-ns--pilot-bearing1090-x-471/" rel="nofollow">  Then we need a special disc. 21 spline (Toyota/Import style), 10.5" (Jeep/domestic) diameter. Once again, thanks Advance Adapters! http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/716105--mcleod-105-diameter1-18-21-spline-clutch-disc/" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 1:03pm
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Now time to swap the R154 input bearing retainer. If you are planning on doing part II: the main shaft and tailhousing swap, you don't need to RTV it on there because you have to take off the input bearing retainer again when you disassemble the trans to take out the main shaft. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/P4071003_zps523f425a.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Thanks SupraForum:  You COULD do this conversion with the internal slave setup (above left). But that would be dumb. If you don't believe me, you will when you have to drop your transmission because the slave failed. Like on my P.i.t.A. '95 Ford Ranger. If you are bolting to the AMC L6... use the 4.0L flywheel. You can swap flywheels on the 6 because they're internally balanced and pretty similar. The early 258 flywheel is huge, sticks out an extra 5/16" and throws off the clutch geometry to the point of non function. When bolting to the AMC V8, you must use the native flywheel. I am told the AX15 bolts up to an AMC V8 with no problem. However, if there's a problem, there's someone trying to make a buck solving that problem. Here's a good example - this totally cool adjustable throwout bearing from Novak-Adapt. 
------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 1:29pm
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Hopefully you grabbed the slave cylinder when you pulled your '93+ AX15 2WD. You can cut the plastic line with tin snips. Then you'll need this (click for link): http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/716130tj--master-cylinder-fitting-for-jeep-tj-wrangler/" rel="nofollow">  Once you put in that brass fitting, you can use a proper braided hose to go to your hydraulic master cylinder. I used a setup from an '84 Eagle. On the master, you'll need another funny brass fitting, adapting the flare fitting to -3 AN hose. IIRC my -3 AN hose is 42" long. I KNOW it's starting to look like an advertisement for adapter companies but that's it! THIS IS THE END OF THE CLUTCH SIDE phase two, swapping the main shafts and tailhousings, will be coming soon... ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 7:03pm
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To take the transmissions apart, watch these videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1hFJfbWwPw" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1hFJfbWwPw It's really not hard. I swear. Watch the videos and write down the steps. Writing them down helped me memorize the steps. Maybe it helps you to sing the steps as you watch the video to remember them. Do that then. You just need some metric sockets, a magnet, snap ring pliers, and a harmonic dampener puller to take off 5th gear. You can skip taking off the shift rails if you're doing a basic rebuild and not a complete teardown. In that case you can follow this guys pictorial http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/major-repair-ax-15-rebuild-1032480/" rel="nofollow - http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/major-repair-ax-15-rebuild-1032480/ http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/F940E40B-B18F-4103-BF2A-02D57575EC4B_zpsbb8k5nrd.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The only differences between the AX15 2WD and 4WD is the main shaft and tailhousing. Those have to go together. Here you can see the length of the output/main shaft matches its 4x4 rear housing or intermediary housing. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/A61BB051-A7C2-495A-BF83-429EF99F64AF_zpsdiwikgnn.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Once you take off 5th gear and reverse, the counter gear comes loose. Wouldn't it be so much easier if you could just swap the input shaft? The reason you cannot, is because the counter gear is one piece and so you can swap input shafts between AX15 and R150 and R151 because they have 29 teeth on the input gear. The R154 has 34 teeth and won't swap with any other transmission. I have a theory that the number of teeth on the input shaft hints at the torque rating: Lowest to highest torque rating, by box and input teeth Small box AX-5 27 teeth W55, W56, W58, W59 - 32 tooth Big Box AX15, R150, R151 29 teeth R154 34 teeth Aisin doesn't give good torque information unfortunately Here you can see the input shaft with the aforementioned teeth and where it separates from the main/output shaft. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/38C70710-0329-491F-BD80-09D5CDD69800_zpskkjnt8ea.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Now you can take out the main shafts out and take them to the transmission shop to have the gears switched. You probably want to bring a basic rebuild kit with bearings and synchros with you. The end is in sight! Once you get them back, put it all back together, and bolt it on...
------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: garsod
Date Posted: Oct/18/2014 at 7:28pm
| Looks like you have this well in hand. Keep us posted. |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/19/2014 at 6:37pm
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I picked up enough cores to make two of these hybrid transmissions - (the other 2WD AX15 is already in the Hornet) http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/02D64E8B-38E7-4BD9-AFCC-C205A068E3AE_zpsbw97cnwc.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I have access to a third R154 for $600. I'm tempted to get it because otherwise it's gonna be another 3-6 months before one is for sale again. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/20/2014 at 1:04pm
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Trying to figure out what upgrades to get from Marlin Crawler. These three are the internal upgrades for their "R154 HD". The thrust washer is recommended for anything more than 300 pounds of torque, so that's a must. This whole thing would be pointless if I couldn't get well above that because I'd just buy a T-5z rated at 330lbs. The shift fork seems unnecessary because I'm not going to be trying to mash into gears if the synchros are going out. I'm on the fence about the rear bearing retainer, as I may never need that reinforcement which I'm guessing is well over 400 ft.lbs. which I'm not anywhere near having to worry about. I'm making the first one for my Hornet with the availability to handle a supercharger one day on the 258. The second one I'm building with a hot 401 in mind where I think it will make sense at the price point without being overkill. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/marlinoptions_zpsbc872f95.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I guess a well built 401 can get 500lbs of torque... So then I should get the bearing plate for the second trans I make but not the shift fork? What do you guys think? Should I just get the "suite" and make a Marlin knock-off? ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: Class Guy
Date Posted: Oct/20/2014 at 5:22pm
| What are the gear ratios for the finished trans? |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/22/2014 at 12:19pm
Toyota R154 made by Aisin First 3.251 Second 1.955 Third 1.310 Fourth 1.000 Fifth 0.753 Reverse 3.18 Supra Turbo mkIII 3.0L I6 versus the FrankenHornet Weight 3800lbs! ~3300 I think 260ft.lbs torque going for 300+ ft.lbs Rear ratios were 3.73-4.10 3.54 rear gear, 27" tires (stock has pretty small tires) People say a well built R154 can handle up to 700-800HP (but transmissions are measured in torque so...). The trans I am building should be able to handle pretty much any AMC engine. If you have a 401 that is completely goosed, with 600ft.lbs of torque, that is probably pushing it unless you get all the upgrades from Marlin Crawler that they have on their R154 HD model. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Class Guy wrote:Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/22/2014 at 12:53pm
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Here is the hydraulic clutch setup I have in my Hornet. If you have a Hornet/Gremlin/Concord/Spirit I definitely recommend trying to track down the hydraulic clutch setup, pedals and clutch master, from an Eagle. I mounted my master cylinder upside down because the plumbing was easier that way. I used a complete setup from a '94 Wrangler I think and used the master cylinder as a reservoir. That way you can just buy the complete Jeep hydraulic setup together when yours gets old and it will probably be easier than replacing something else that's custom.  I had already done the front disc conversion and I'm glad that the '78 Concord that was my donor car has the whole thing tilted up because the Eagle master might not fit under the old level-set brake booster. I'm already very happy with my setup but that 3.83 first gear is pretty useless... now I'm going to fix it and plan on being happy as a clam ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: Class Guy
Date Posted: Oct/22/2014 at 12:57pm
Ratios are not that much different than a stock T-5 out of a Mustang. |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/22/2014 at 1:00pm
True, but because of the .68 overdrive, you want to get the T-5z or '93 Cobra version that has the 2.95 first gear. Those are more expensive and harder to find and the T-5z maxes out at 330ft.lbs so I think you could break it with a hot 390 or 401. The R154 can be built much stronger to handle the most badass 401. It's supposed to occupy the space between T-5z and a Viper T56 or TKO etc which are expensive and probably overkill. Another thing that's cool is if you look around at the junkyard, both trans can be found and then it's really cheap. The special clutch, pilot bearing, and a few brass fittings are the only things that aren't stock parts. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/23/2014 at 6:32pm
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Got the clutch disc and pilot bearing in the mail... The McLeod clutch disc looks badass. The pilot bearing is also excellent. Very happy with Advance Adapters. Pilot bushing Dimensions OD Diameter: AMC 1&1/16", AA bushing 1&1/16"... perfect ID of bushing is Toyota R small tip. correct Length: AMC 1", AA is 1.5" long... If you remember the input shaft is 5/16" shorter so I think I want the pilot bearing to stick out 5/16. 1&1/2 minus 1&5/16 is 3/16. I believe I'll want to cut that much off the back of the pilot bearing "extender sleeve" or whatever you want to call it. But I'll double check the fit before I start hacking off the end. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/39642EE9-6060-4E63-BE67-9E6977BEAFAD_zpslxrrfqcj.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/24/2014 at 1:12pm
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If you don't have a hydraulic clutch, have no fear Someone just posted 7 of these on eBay. $40 free shipping http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/19ECDCBD-3551-456C-8417-6537DB1F1215_zpsltpzfqcz.png.html" rel="nofollow">  I'm trying to get a discount for buying 5 at once, since if I want to make and sell these transmissions, people are going to need a hydraulic clutch. The pedals are the same as usual but with this welded on to them (click for more info on hydraulic clutch conversion) http://theamcforum.com/forum/hydraulic-clutch-linkage_topic43884.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Oct/25/2014 at 9:53am
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Cool project thanks for posting it. How did the shifter location work out as 1 of the tail housings looks like it is back really far. Oh I went easy with a WC T5 hoped up a little to work with my Javelin & 360. Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/25/2014 at 12:19pm
Shifter position with the AX15 and Cherokee shifter is excellent IMO http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/AADC49C0-81E6-4817-9441-D8E018024108_zpsyvgq23zu.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I know that the T5 will work for 95% of people. I had set up the AX15 already and I really liked the feel and that Hurst shifter is nice and comfortable. Not a very short shifter but a stout, macho truck kinda feel to it that's badass  That's why I have to go through the trouble of switching the AX15 tail onto the R154... -retain Hurst shifter and shifter position which is ideal -retain custom cross member -retain yoke and aluminum driveshaft setup. As a side note, one added bonus is the AX15 setup with the AMC20 rear on my Hornet is the perfect size for a junkyard aluminum driveshaft from a '96 Ford Explorer 2wd. It seems well made and heavy duty and the same type as the Crown Victoria V8 aluminum driveshafts. At the muffler shop http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/E33527AF-748C-4B07-B8CC-6900DCE9F4D5_zps8hxwmb5m.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/25/2014 at 4:29pm
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Tearing down the two trans so I can swap their main shafts... The very long AX15 main shaft, below, is likely so long to make the 4x4 version with the transfer case as long as the 2wd version so that they could use the same driveshaft. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/AADDBECD-1897-4249-BD87-903D74F6238F_zpsermg9maw.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I'm getting pretty quick at stripping these down http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/1EABF6E5-5EBE-46EE-9908-BDD9045347D7_zpswnqiamjk.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  You need a puller to take off 5th gear http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/47193664-C79D-46FD-9935-7A1A953C54F1_zpsjhlybpwc.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  One down, one to go... http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/D06DA578-830D-4F6C-80A1-B01C4F41D7FD_zpspsbroxds.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  This is the R154 now http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/2D15FD7A-6012-4821-9F13-2E5BCF5CB973_zpsj7zeichq.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/4ABD6A31-A3CA-40BA-A4A8-FBA82E150625_zpsyjghsiun.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The R154 is a bit tougher in every way. Like it has a steel sandwich plate instead of aluminum one on the AX15 http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/EA906B56-496D-4577-A0F1-EE946C2D0A98_zpsj6icmbsw.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The splines are in line but the pilot tip is 5/16" shorter. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/D63894A6-E323-49EC-833C-530AE38D528E_zpstjptei0t.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Here you can see that the gear connected to the input shaft (4th) is much larger on the R154 http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/90214A9B-5CC1-4433-B981-998F72E95135_zpsmrgmx2lp.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/25/2014 at 5:50pm
This rebuilt R154 is from an '88 Supra Turbo. '87 was the first year for the Supra Turbo and therefore the R154 which was built to match the higher torque. Non turbo trans is top This version I have is the early/heavy kind. It's kind of surprising how much this thing weighs. I just took apart a 1990 4x4 AX15 and it had the U clip on the 5th gear instead of this thing (below) so that's another change. They must have changed at some point between after '88 before 90 so the u clip was new in 89 or 90. Kinda annoying design... you have to bend something to take the transmission apart. Not a big deal though. I think there were three types of synchros total. '92 is the last and best year for the R154 because it has the lighter gears and upgraded synchros. With a rebuild kit they have the newest style. Don't get hung up on finding a '92. If you find a good R154 for $600 or less with no broken gears, that's a great deal here in California. For the AX15, as discussed earlier, you want the '93 for the external slave input bearing retainer, throwout fork and clip, bellhousing and slave cylinder. The Supra (and maybe the R150 R151 too) has a pull type clutch which cannot be adapted for several reasons, one being the throwout fork and clip are bolted to the 7M-GTE bellhousing. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/B8EA7E44-4E71-445E-8718-FD3EFF8C96F2_zpsnqyiqgmp.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The ball bearing next to the 5th gear makes taking the R154 apart just a little more annoying than the AX15. The R154 also has another sensor, "Skid Detection Module"? Don't know. Below are the input shafts next to their respective counter gears http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/33A42C3E-8DB0-4BCB-8EE8-FD0911CA2D73_zps06ivd1qg.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  AND HERE'S WHAT WE WANT! The AX15 and R154 main shafts. Now we need to take the shafts to a place with a press to remove the gears and press them onto the others shaft. I bet you could find someone, like at a budget transmission shop, to swap gears between shafts for $100. I'm gonna take them to my buddies shop that has an old anemic press (you don't need much) and bring a case of beer. Stay tuned... http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/F7D9C16C-C820-45F1-9C2B-C8B2F0CE1C64_zpsjrpkrvz8.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Oct/25/2014 at 8:30pm
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Press is like $120 without coupon at harbor fright. If you're going to build a few just go get a press and drink the beer yourself  ------------- Wrambler 69 AMC Rambler 4.0L, 5 speed 2015 Grand Cherokee Limited 2019 Chrysler 300 |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/25/2014 at 9:59pm
Look what you made me do... OK I've had a few http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/8cd15373-01cd-4a26-a294-09b952fa1ef9_zpse540258f.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: jpnjim
Date Posted: Oct/26/2014 at 7:18am
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not to pee in your Cherios, but most of the threads on Harbor Freight tools say steer clear of the 12 ton press and go right for the 20 ton. Either way I've heard enough complaints about their press plates not trust them. Good luck with the trans builds, I'm following this thread & really enjoying the tech ------------- 71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX some Jeeps and some Fords |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/26/2014 at 7:12pm
Yeah I know some of their tools suck but if it makes it through one build, for $100 I think that's a win. They had two types: this one had decent reviews. The main complain was it was flimsy. I have a couple welder friends so I think we can stiffen her up. I'm gonna have to set up a little shop the way I'm getting into this stuff. I hope people buy the package so I can make lots more. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/27/2014 at 12:20pm
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One more thing that may be applicable to AMC The non turbo supra trans, W58, can be bolted to the AMC/Jeep 2.5L. This trans is plenty stout for the 2.5 as it was made for a 3.0L It needs a long pilot bushing however. Again the benefit would be gearing for a sporty passenger car rather than the truck geared AX5.  Turbo F.I. 2.5L w/ W58 in an AMC anyone? It'd be pretty neat... especially for someone like me who gets special joy out of bolting a bunch of junk yard parts together.  Of course, in this case with the GM 60 degree V6 bell, it would be more logical to do T-5  The W58 swap would be probably be cheapest though since it uses all the AX5 parts for the clutch so if you picked up a 2.5 and AX5 setup for nothing, you'd only need the weird extension pilot and the W58 which are plentiful. Could be a very cheap and decent setup ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: garsod
Date Posted: Oct/27/2014 at 10:50pm
| Great read. Hope to be able to afford one of these soon. |
Posted By: carnuck
Date Posted: Oct/29/2014 at 12:21pm
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Dodge Dakota with 2.5 (AMC) and 5 speed got AX-15s. That bellhousing is the holy grail of many TJ owners.
------------- Got an Eagle? http://forums.amceaglesden.com" rel="nofollow - http://forums.amceaglesden.com |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/30/2014 at 10:54am
AX15 identification: -On the left you can see the internal slave setup because it has the hydraulic lines sticking out of a small hole with no bolts. The external slave is shaped like an eye or rather an exhaust gasket (pictured on the right below) http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Leans93/media/ExternalSlaveswap008.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Back to the first picture... on the right you can see the speedo housing. According to meanmax on jeepforum: '92 & newer have electric only speedo input. '91 has both the cable & the electrical, and '90 and older have cable only." So if this is a pre-93 slave and a post '91 speedo, that would make it a '92 (actually could be a '91, pic's kinda blurry). I will have to replace the speedo housing so I can use a mechanical setup with the 93 style. Fortunately there's tons of donors for this part at all the junk yards around me that are filled with '80s Cherokees etc. Also, once it's in the car and your wheels and axle gears have been chosen, you need the corresponding speedometer gear. There's a chart here: http://www.quadratec.com/jeep_knowledgebase/article-46.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.quadratec.com/jeep_knowledgebase/article-46.htm to make things more complicated, there's two length speedo gear. "It seems some of the 92 and early 93 electric sending units still used a long shaft speedo gear. Its very easy to pull the gear housing (one half inch bolt) just make a note of the clocking of the housing (it can go in 4 positions) If you have a long shaft it will be about 4 inches total legth and short shaft will be about 2 1/2 total legth." ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/31/2014 at 11:19am
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Got some parts from Marlin Crawler. Top: First gear thrust washer. THE weak point in these transmissions. Marlin made one that is chrome-moly and seems very well made Bottom: Billet steel rear bearing retainer. This isn't for mine because I really don't need it with my 258 but it's for #2 that I'm building for a 401 Bottom: Marlin Crawler EcoSeal output seal. Just wanted to see it. Not sure how it's better than stock but I'm throwing it on #2 so that it has all the parts of the Marlin R154 HD (except for the 1-2 Billet shift fork which is $129 and not directly related to torque rating.) I believe these upgrades should make it strong enough for any 401. I should call Marlin to make sure http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/3C4811B7-D727-4EEC-94A2-AA06754E461D_zpsnkyva3gi.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Oct/31/2014 at 11:29am
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Also I got the cheap press. I had to add a few washers to make up for loose tolerances but now it feels pretty stiff like it will work fine. I think the bearing splitter will get here today then I'm ready to get pressing! http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/E050A9BC-C291-4336-9729-90373586331A_zpsoryq1h8i.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: RAZER
Date Posted: Oct/31/2014 at 11:35am
| PM sent |
Posted By: Ant
Date Posted: Oct/31/2014 at 7:04pm
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What kinda price for a stout trans for >550torque? ------------- 73 AMX project 401 stroker, t-56 mag Full-time machinist |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/01/2014 at 12:28pm
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FLYWHEEL EXPERTS HELP PLEASE! Clutch geometry questions 1. Does anyone know how far the flywheel for AMC V8 sticks out from the bell mounting surface? I'm asking because originally I got a '72 258 flywheel that said it was for '72-79 and that thing was HUGE. Super heavy and 5/16" thicker IIRC than the 4.0L flywheel I had to use. Reason is that the thicker early 258 flywheel pushed the pressure plate against the throwout bearing against the fork enough so that the slave plunger was bottomed out and wouldn't operate. I put in a stock 4.0L starter, flywheel and clutch kit and it works great with the Eagle master. Disengages about halfway and feels right. I assume the '72+ AMC V8 flywheel is similarly thick as the '72-79 258 and will need the adjustable throwout bearing from Novak. One cool thing about the novak bearing is it's heavy duty and you can replace just the bearing, not the whole assembly so after you set it up, replacement of the bearing is probably about the cost of a stock 4.0L throwout bearing or less. All the pictures of the 401 flywheel I've seen seem to have the second set of holes I believe for the 11" pressure plate.
A Toyota Tundra has a lot of clutch disc options around the 10.5" to 11" range and a 21 spline input shaft!!! Damn! Maybe I didn't need the special disc. Although it wasn't expensive and looks to be good quality. 10.5" 6 puck style 21 spline!!! http://sohiperformance.com/toyota-tundra-2005-2006-act-component-clutch-disc-6-puck-race-6266007/i-495448.aspx?gclid=Cj0KEQjwidKiBRCevbT6yeqPrJQBEiQA1iM2Web_FMADFAsWPb-MjEqIffZDILwRnxMYh9MpzxOmfzIaApMe8P8HAQ" rel="nofollow - http://sohiperformance.com/toyota-tundra-2005-2006-act-component-clutch-disc-6-puck-race-6266007/i-495448.aspx?gclid=Cj0KEQjwidKiBRCevbT6yeqPrJQBEiQA1iM2Web_FMADFAsWPb-MjEqIffZDILwRnxMYh9MpzxOmfzIaApMe8P8HAQ  Centerforce makes a 276mm disc for tundra which is 10.87 inches which might work with the 11" disc  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/01/2014 at 12:41pm
550 torque is the goal... All the cores are spoken for but I can quote you when I see some available. The cores are anywhere from $600 to $1000 for the pair. If you could find both at a junkyard, it'd be $375 here in California. I found ONE R154 once but that's very unlikely here as people are watching closely. Usually you have to get them on Craigslist and they are typically $600 when one is available which is about every 3-6 months. The 2WD AX15 is cheap but not that common as most Cherokees are 4x4. Usually $100-200 Besides the cores, other rough costs are: Rebuild Kit $250 Your choice of Marlin upgrades $80-$350 Shifter upgrade +$220 for Hurst or a bit more for B&M if you want it My time - I haven't figured out a price for this I'm doing research on clutches, but I think the simplest thing would be for me to give you the info you need and hopefully you can get one to suit your needs since there are many options at many torque ratings are prices. If you got the T-56 magnum, sounds like you have the transmission covered!
------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/04/2014 at 6:05pm
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After doing more research on clutches, it turns out: The McLeod clutch is rated at 350-400lbs, which is enough for me, but not for a maxed out 401. The best options are street/strip for the 2005+ Tacoma with the 4.0L V6. You will need to find a company that makes both: -high performance tacoma clutch 21 spline 10.5" -high performance jeep/gm 10.5" pressure plate. I'll keep looking around - Any help with this appreciated ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/04/2014 at 6:57pm
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Got to pressing off gears, hubs and bearings today... This stuff came off pretty easy http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/B049804E-E3F9-44E2-913A-9F06A9DDA81D_zpsxmqltj04.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The reverse/1-2hub is a little chewed up but the rebuilders cleaned it up some. I could tell it was a run of the mill rebuild because of the silver spray paint on the case http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/C8FA2B8D-D7D1-47BB-B7D4-CDA8D0F764EC_zpsjz1hcjdq.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Here is the infamous first gear thrust washer and its replacement http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/FC8F6DD6-0701-4D82-B86F-C928192457B9_zpsriacu7bf.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I had to do some hillbilly machining with the angle grinder to get the bearing splitter down to about 1/8" so I could get between 3rd and 2nd gear. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/C507EB0F-311E-4E38-A17B-A7C0EDBB7EA5_zpskwthyzma.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Perfeito! as they say in Portugal. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/F38F4395-C36B-49BA-BABF-70FCF292AC67_zpsxgjidzeh.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/29D49695-9B9A-4461-81C2-73ECABA259C3_zps3x0vfbpt.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The hardest part was the second gear and hub, having the biggest race and spline. Below I took a picture while I was stuck on the 2nd gear and hub of the R154 with the AX15 main shaft on the table http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/EC51411B-ADA1-4596-BFD2-9E8DD63D7921_zpsflrco1fc.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  This lip on the main shaft goes between second and third gear http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/8BB23D5C-437E-43D5-99E0-B8681F71502D_zpscuormomc.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Again, this is where I got stuck with both of them. I sprayed a bunch of WD40 on the splines and let them sit while I had lunch and researched more clutch options http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/C0AB6AC7-2A79-4F73-B7BE-3757C1807480_zpsuezpwd6j.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Would be a good scepter/murder weapon http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/F4119989-F625-426D-8714-C5DA3FDBFC4B_zpslyxxzmds.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Finally got second gears off http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/942EA3A8-FC07-43BB-8FF6-BCA134770645_zpsrv8xp5zs.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  If you haven't been able to understand what I'm talking about, above you can see here that the gears can be swapped from one shaft to the other because they're the same where the gears are.* *Having said that, I actually had to use the AX15 5th gear or use a spacer because it looks as though the R154 overdrive is thinner in length. (R154 5th is .75 and AX15 is .79) Here's the order: http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/375F7DEB-086C-4940-B989-92D41077361F_zpsggykthwd.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/9DCD5548-F848-41F5-A534-AE8A5F5887EF_zpsmc1yqwp0.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/FD182962-F51D-4C30-BBCB-F2C69E200B41_zpsrkrlyhqr.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Edit: above the 1-2 assembly should be on the side with the 1-2 reverse hub. This is much more clear:  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/05/2014 at 7:19pm
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It worked!!! http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/0B13A016-8274-466C-9915-5EBF8378EB7C_zpsiwhnri82.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I had to use the AX15 first gear spacer and 5th gear, but it's together and is no longer an idea in my head but a reality! I am so pumped. The gear ratios are as follows 3.25 2 (62% higher gear) 1.31 (66% higher gear) 1 (76% higher gear) .79 (79% higher gear) Seems good. If someone can explain why I must go through the trouble of making a spacer to use the R154 5th gear, .75, I'd like to hear it. Otherwise I'm calling this good. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/05/2014 at 7:39pm
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I called Marlin Crawler today to ask about the torque specs on their R154 HD. Ultimately they said "We won't put a number on it. All depends on how you drive it." It sounds like a good way of covering one's rump. But there is a grain of truth to it. Even if they had a torque rating, it doesn't necessarily have to be the same as max torque of the engine it's bolted to. I think the torque rating would be the same as the engine max torque if you're going to be dropping the clutch with your engine revved to max torque with racing slicks so that the flywheel torque is fully applied to the clutch and transmission with no way to escape like via the rear wheels peeling out. So the torque rating of a transmission is much more relevant to drag racers. For someone who has a well built 401 with 510 ft.lbs of torque at 4000 RPM, like http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/1308-amc-401-build/" rel="nofollow - this one , that was being driven on the street, your trans may never see 500 lbs of torque because your street tires will probably prevent that. Anyway, trying to build a transmission for a certain engine is complicated and involves the context in which the vehicle is driven. Having said that, I can't tell if someone driving this transmission on the street like they're *trying* to break this thing would succeed or not. I will say this: It's stronger than a T-5 It's cheaper than a T-56 And it's very serviceable due to the fact that it uses many stock parts from readily available cores, has aftermarket parts that, for all intents and purposes, may never break, and both transmissions have a loyal following in the hot rod community for tech support. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: garsod
Date Posted: Nov/05/2014 at 11:02pm
| Nicely illustrated. Glad this is moving forward for you. I'm keeping a watchful eye with hopes of doing this. |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/06/2014 at 6:42pm
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Shifter stuff - I got my hands on another R154 today, this time with the shifter included. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/04A6D52E-21ED-478D-B9DC-917A2906D62B_zpsy2qliiti.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The shifter on the R154 is exactly 7" on center further back from the AX15 http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/AX15_R154_41_zps085f2250.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The R154 shifter is 13" tall and points straight back about 4". My greasy thumb is where the top of the shifter would be <span style="line-height: 16.7999992370605px; font-size: 0.75em;">(pen marking center of shifter)</span> http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/33DC8810-F371-4147-8921-6FDC8B3645C9_zps8jbjbwcz.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/356437F7-2B90-4589-A169-78FCCDA86418_zpspk7x2i4b.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Take note that I am 6'4" and the seat is all the way back... I LOVE the placement of the Hurst shifter which is the same location as a stock Cherokee shifter. The Hurst is kinda truck-y meaning on the tall side. Using it gives you a tiny hint of Rat Fink... feels solid and manly and good. You might be thinking that the R154 would be a good short shifter. Well there's a couple of things - It would probably get in the way of bench seats and might feel like your elbow is too far back. HOWEVER: The base is symmetrical so I flipped it around and now the knob is in a much better spot! http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/059D8438-E55B-4FE2-B28E-EE5A24251EF1_zpswvdhebki.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Then you don't have to do something stupid like this:  There is a problem with that though. The AX15 fits very snug in the tunnel. The shifter mounting surface is IIRC about 1/4"-1/2" below the tunnel, which is fine. If you move the shifter back, I think you'd be talking about a big hole and tunnel mods to make a bump. Therefore: -use the stock shifter and trans if you like metal work and want to save money -spend $200 to get the whole AX15, which is the price of the bell setup alone that you'd need and then swap the main shaft and tail housing as I have done. (much more slick IMO but more complicated) ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: carnuck
Date Posted: Nov/06/2014 at 7:55pm
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There is an early and late AX-15 shifter where they are about 7" apart difference in TJs IIRC.
------------- Got an Eagle? http://forums.amceaglesden.com" rel="nofollow - http://forums.amceaglesden.com |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/10/2014 at 12:36pm
IIRC the Wrangler shifter is taller and the Dakota shifter is just 18" straight up so it hits the steering wheel. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/FA5CB575-CDD1-457A-990E-36659E131E43_zpsmcx5z32o.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  that's not gonna work haha If you order the Hurst shifter from Core Shifters, I believe you can change the chrome stick to any Hurst stick they have available, which is great because you could pick something that best suits your taste. You could use a diagram like this:  BETTER YET! from the core website: "Optional shorter stick - Hurst # 238-0201, 9.5" tall, bends 5.7" rear, none sideways. Request w/ payment." This might be PERFECT for you. I like the stock one but I've got long monkey arms. Click the pic below for shifter link http://www.core-shifters.com/servlet/the-935/Core--fdsh--Hurst-shifter/Detail" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/10/2014 at 12:52pm
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FINALLY http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/AAD3ECDD-30E8-4A23-9296-C18ED5455EFB_zpsejvc5kva.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Recommended blue Loctite on shift forks http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/E5C4C329-26C3-47B3-8DA8-2FEA5280E309_zpsmpw7h1ho.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  After the input shaft goes on, the gear case slides over, you put snap rings on the front bearings, then RTV the AX15 input bearing retainer over the R154 input shaft. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/7BFC3B8F-A0AE-4BCE-ACB6-AF5786C2E907_zpsyxibahbf.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  After you finish putting on the 5 gear assembly (remember, this is the only AX15 gear besides the speedo gear), you are ready to put on the tail housing. You should change the output seal at this time. The stock kind has this sleeve sticking out which is pretty cool but is very hard to find. Typically you can only find the kind that are the same as the 4wd version which are just flat. They also work but probably not as well. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/4EAAC2DD-2C1A-45BB-B2AA-541FF065A005_zpssqy3xopj.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  If you are reusing the stock shifter, you should replace these two bushings. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/C7391615-170F-4DB6-BCC9-AC609D38F3C8_zpshpfbx4a8.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  HERE SHE IS. NUMBER 01 http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/DF5E2484-4251-4D20-BDFE-003EAB9350D2_zpsrggwl5gl.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">   ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/10/2014 at 3:50pm
I'm getting ready to put it in but first I wanted to make sure the pilot adapter is in the right place because these things are HEAVY. By my calculations, looks like I lucked out! I'm going to recess the pilot bearing adapter 1/16" past the face of the inner bore. Hopefully I have this right! It's not that much fun "bench pressing" a 100lb transmission while under a car. Edit: I measured many many more times and they are not 1/16" apart but exactly the same. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: garsod
Date Posted: Nov/10/2014 at 5:17pm
| Great work on these trans. Would it be possible to to save you the 100 lb bench press to use a empty case with the R154 inputshaft and bearing retainer attached for fitment? It may also be worth leaving the pressure plate off and only installing the disc on the shaft and that way you could get in the bellhousing with a mirror and see exactly where stuff lines up. I wish you were not a 1000 miles away, I would love to assist with the build. Dave |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/10/2014 at 5:21pm
Dave that's exactly what I was thinking!! ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/10/2014 at 5:50pm
|
Taking out the AX15 in my Hornet... I highly recommend using something to keep the engine from slumping forward. I used this piece of 3/4" rebar. The engine mounts are behind the center of gravity which makes the engine want to slump forward when you remove the transmission. Because this trans is a fatty and tight in the tunnel, this makes the entry angle unfavorable and it is VERY difficult to get the pilot tip in. You can also mar the pilot bushing/bearing this way. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/CAE8533D-AF7D-4A61-9140-ECE04518C5BB_zpswzo2uch9.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The first time the trans went in was with the engine, which was tight but do-able. The second time I put it back in I didn't use the bar and the engine slumped forward and after much frustration I realized I had to try to jack the front of the engine up so that the pilot tip could go in. I marred the pilot bushing a bit which was confusing because it felt like the clutch wouldn't disengage. I had just made my own hydraulic clutch system and thought that was the culprit. Eventually I figured out that it was a sticky pilot bushing and with the parking brake on I put it into gear with the clutch pedal down. After a split second with the starter turning the flywheel while the transmission was locked by the back wheels, I was able to get the bushing working right. Here you can see that it fits in the tunnel close on all sides: http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/2A1AABE0-9E67-400E-ADC7-F6A5EFB443E5_zpsfjaksx9t.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  It actually touches a little in one spot behind where the throwout fork pivot knob attaches to the bellhousing. A few good whacks with a mini sledge fixed that problem. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/10FBBEBE-A918-4A2D-842E-5D2A6D25667E_zps8ban2hly.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Here you can't really see but the pilot tip wants to catch on the pressure plate fingers while the bell wants to rub against the tunnel. Thank god the new tip is smaller. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/D8186E42-0821-400D-9D3C-6B9968DB17B8_zpspdepa4vg.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/10/2014 at 5:56pm
|
Once on the ground, I like to take off the bell so that I don't have to jack up the car 2 feet, just 16". If you have a lift, I'm jealous. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/6AD5AD11-9387-4204-BF5A-96FB317DA6A5_zps3uugo8qg.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Here she is. I feel like I just gave birth to a fat baby. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/235BADF9-5271-4DAD-849D-61804BE16442_zpskmbkz3fr.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The AX15 I just took out of my car, a '92 with 186K miles on it (remember get a 93 because it's a lot cheaper) will be paired with this '91 R154 with 220K miles for a forum member. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/EDE003EC-4E71-46C1-9E50-DC33C49400E9_zps1llo4gkz.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/10/2014 at 7:10pm
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Here's what the clutch setup looks like: http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/A71FF2C4-63DE-493E-AC8C-8A08B9325985_zpsxzomtudb.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/87866BC2-8783-4EF5-B67D-59714217F11B_zpspoj96kuf.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Pictured above is all Jeep 4.0L AX15 parts. If you have a pre-'80s or so V8 flywheel, I'm guessing you'll need to use the Novak adjustable throwout bearing. I say this because my '72 258 flywheel sticks out 5/16" more than the 4.0L flywheel which did not work. I believe the old, thick flywheels need a throwout bearing that's 5/16 thinner. I was lucky that I have a straight six and could just bolt on the 4.0L flywheel. I heard you can balance a 4.0L flywheel to work with a V8 but don't know for sure. The Novak is $80 so I'd just do that if I were you. Don't forget the throwout fork clip: http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/A7CBDC8F-7746-4101-A912-7AF400E2CEF0_zps26uipfib.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  You might want to get the clip just for kicks since it's $4 shipped from eBay. I had to replace the one that was broken on the '94. Here's the hydraulic clutch setup. Stock replacement 4.0L slave. AA brass adapter. 42" braided hose with a 90 on one end. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/736A1FF4-A526-4E82-A4F1-84F83681428C_zpsdxps3819.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: carnuck
Date Posted: Nov/10/2014 at 7:28pm
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The kind with the boot are often available through NAPA's ATP catalog line.
------------- Got an Eagle? http://forums.amceaglesden.com" rel="nofollow - http://forums.amceaglesden.com |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/11/2014 at 4:15pm
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Clutch stuff... Here's the flywheel with the AX15 brass bushing from Novak '92 is the first year of the 3/4 inch pilot tip. Before it was 19/32. I was able to get the ARP flywheel bolts by looking up the pitch and thread and I found some for a Pontiac V8 that are perfect. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/2382E44D-DD42-4CC2-9DA5-1616486BC050_zpszsinbpqn.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I stopped by the auto parts store. Luckily the main branch has a generic Toyota clutch alignment tool. Weirdly enough, it comes up for 2005 Tacoma 4.0L V6 but not '88 Supra Turbo even though I'm pretty sure they have the same tip (R155 and R154 respectively). http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/8218D78C-C4F2-4BE0-AEE6-BCEAD740B9BE_zps0iayiwbf.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Here's the old disc and new disc. They look almost exactly the same except for the spline count. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/FCAAB005-8D47-46D4-83F5-710B8804DC5E_zps4rg1nyqd.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Here you can see the new pilot is indeed about 1/2" too long, plus the amount extra (~3/32) it will need to be recessed. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/4134FCD7-964F-4EF0-99DB-DF0AE50AB573_zpsfleypgdy.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  And noticeably bigger :( http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/D4E3B503-F363-40F3-A29A-854658969971_zps8makllkp.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/AD444664-782C-405A-8979-BCFA3E6BCA37_zpswb7u3ijb.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The OD of the bushing is 1.054 which looks like 1&1/32" The new pilot bushing is correct on the inner bearing, but the outside is 1.09, which looks like 1&1/16" That extra .044" is way too much when it comes to an interference fit with hard metal parts. I'm calling around to try to find a shop that will lathe it for me for cheap. I might bring in 3 at once to try and get it down to $20 each. I also called AA and asked them how much to make one and they said they weren't interested / too busy. They have a "the next representative will be with you shortly" setup going there. I had assumed they were a small company. Guess not.
------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: Ant
Date Posted: Nov/11/2014 at 5:33pm
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If you want to mail them here I can machine and mail them back the next day. Or let me know what you want made. ------------- 73 AMX project 401 stroker, t-56 mag Full-time machinist |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/11/2014 at 7:48pm
PM sent! ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/12/2014 at 4:29pm
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So this was a fun exercise but ultimately pointless... http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/660CB5E1-C465-4C3E-9436-2AAE441C52DB_zps7iwla6pz.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/3ED69376-CB41-4D87-BE4A-C65C69370380_zpsy5ji719u.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The AX15 bell has only two small holes in it so I couldn't get a good view of the pilot tip One hole is for the slave and one for the crank positioning sensor. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/188E741B-E660-4052-98DD-C09A90B55CDC_zpssagr7fox.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  It could be more useful when I have the right pilot bearing to make sure the tip is aligned with it correctly. So instead I decided to put both the hybrid and the stock AX15 on a 5 gal bucket and bolt on the bell to measure relative to the bell mounting surface. Doing it like this with a straight edge and measuring tape - http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/D3DD3CBD-475E-41A2-9946-764D13D9EE15_zpstywicabh.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I measured carefully. Then measured again. And again. And again. I think the start of the pilot area is the same for both. 9/16" exactly back from the bell-to-engine face. (I know it looks like 5/8ths above but it's not.) That means I'm going to make the OD and length of the pilot exactly the same as the old pilot bushing which is 1.054" diameter and 1" long. The inside is bearing HK1214RS which is 18mm OD. Therefore the R154 with AX15 adapter pilot bearing measures: O.D. 1.054" ID 18mm Lenth: 1" Hopefully this bad boy makes it all worthwhile http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/562C6BED-9B81-457B-A416-61371ABC62E8_zpsu5htdtlf.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: garsod
Date Posted: Nov/15/2014 at 4:02pm
| The photo of the trans input shaft to pilot bearing does provide a great opportunity to verify the correct depth when you get the new one in. Seems like you are soooooo close to getting this in. |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/16/2014 at 7:53pm
Just waiting on the pilot from Ant so should be in this coming week ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/18/2014 at 3:38pm
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I opened up one of the three R154 transmission cores to find... http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/7656751D-E228-42C9-B408-BF930A9F2659_zpsgqfszlbl.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  "Starry Night" is the name of a beautiful painting by Van Gogh but also describes the color you least want to see when opening a transmission case. Gold sparkle is the brass from synchros and it's very common to have some brass in a high mileage transmission. Generally not a problem because your rebuild kit should have new synchros. The color you REALLY don't want is silver sparkle. That's chewed up gears. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/95BBCB96-3495-4DC1-B1F8-22C571E038C3_zpsaroryw3y.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The input shaft / 4th gear and counter gear are toast. This transmission is trashed. Trying to get a refund from the dude who sold it to me on craigslist. He's not responding so far but I remember where he lives so maybe I should go talk to him in person. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: garsod
Date Posted: Nov/18/2014 at 4:03pm
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Hope you are able to get him to give you some or all of your money back. |
Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Nov/19/2014 at 8:15am
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You got a warranty promise from someone on Craigslist? Wow, did not think that was possible. I'll tell someone what is good or bad, but warranty? No. warranty lasts till the end of the driveway or parking lot. Let us know, I'm curious as to what he says. Those seemed to be fairly pricey for the most part, is it safe to just put the new gears in it and still manage a profit? I know that 4th gear is generally one you want nice and quiet, so? New parts usually = quiet. Just my thoghts on the matter. I have no idea other than what I have read on this great thread. ------------- Wrambler 69 AMC Rambler 4.0L, 5 speed 2015 Grand Cherokee Limited 2019 Chrysler 300 |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/19/2014 at 3:47pm
When you pay $600 for a core, and someone says it still "shifts fine" you assume it's a rebuildable core. But when the 4th gear goes out, it's not just a gear. It's the input and counter gear cluster. Replacing both of those would cost at least $600, which means you just get another core. Essentially, this particular failure makes the transmission "totaled". It's expected that you need to pay for a rebuild kit $250 and maybe $100 worth of parts on average but when you have to spend $1200 just to get something that can be rebuilt, then it's hard to make money on that. If he had said "As is" that would have been one thing and that would make sense in the $300 range (parts for these are popular. I just sold $550 worth of parts left over from build #1 ).He gave it a "works fine" rating and so it's not as described and in fact, worthless. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/19/2014 at 3:53pm
For fun I drew a little diagram of how these transmissions work. You can see that losing the input shaft piece and the counter shaft piece is a big deal.
------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Nov/20/2014 at 7:59am
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I know exactly what is engaged in 4th gear. I bought new input and cluster for 330 ft lb T-5 and did not spend anyway near the $600 mark. So, I was curious, Thanks for clearing this up. The diagram will help others I'm sure. As a background, I was ASE certified Master tech from 87-97 when I left the auto service shop for child care. The child care has proven to be much more rewarding. One is a Mechanical engineer for U.S.Steel and the other is a University senior in Wildlife and Fisheries with a 4.0 GPA and aspirations to just follow the track to a P.H.D. ------------- Wrambler 69 AMC Rambler 4.0L, 5 speed 2015 Grand Cherokee Limited 2019 Chrysler 300 |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/20/2014 at 12:40pm
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Wrambler I was just posting that for people who don't know I know that you're the man ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/20/2014 at 12:45pm
God if I just wanted Ford stuff how cheap and easy my life would be. I'm slowly getting parts together for a 4.0L T-5 Pacer so I'm excited to see what can be done with all the plentiful and cheap T-5 performance stuff. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/24/2014 at 7:15pm
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When Ant machined it, I had him cut it (what I thought would be) 1/8" long which was 1" http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/FC71C4D4-E9C8-45C3-A4EE-184D4266B169_zpsb3fsf3re.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I sprayed some white spray paint to help see where they are meeting. I left the input greasy when I sprayed it and only waited 15 min before putting it in so the paint had set up a bit but was still soft. There are two marks. I think the place with no paint is where the needles are (I spun the input bearing from the back for a minute). The edge of the bearing is out from that. I want the bearing to make a lot more contact. It looks like the sleeve will need to be 1/4" longer. From my calculations, I'm not sure why this is the case, but I have a theory... http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/95D1D034-84F6-458C-99FA-23E57C84E950_zpsspwu3d8r.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/D1AABFCF-E1EC-48F6-9B66-A863C060ADA6_zpsbjed9jhs.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  My theory is that the grey line on this '94 input shaft is the edge of the pilot bushing which means the pilot area of the input is already 1/8" out of the 4.0L crank bore... http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/1B7DAF6A-9F87-49AF-8416-22EBD1F08F6C_zpsq1ntqeqn.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I suppose the 258 crank bore could be about another 1/4" further toward the engine. With such a large tip for the AX15, it doesn't really matter. For the R154, it has a lot less area and I think it does matter. The tip only being in a little bit means there is room for a needle to fall out and the bearing to fail. Without the bearing working, the tip is not supported and would want to become eccentric due to centrifugal force. Added play in the shaft would make the input bearing fail more quickly, causing gear slop that would destroy the input gear and the counter shaft (like the pictures in a previous post). That's a long way of saying we want the pilot tip making good contact with the pilot bearing. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: Greg55_99
Date Posted: Nov/25/2014 at 11:20am
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This info is VERY cool. As a note however, 2WD AX15's are fairly common. Look under 94-99 Dodge Dakota's. Anyway, I'm LOVING your info. Wish I could do this.
Greg
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Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Nov/26/2014 at 11:01pm
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I got this transmission book and read it in one sitting... http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/D1443D74-9561-42FF-8C9B-9361CFFD6E48_zps6qasmdq9.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Probably more info about 4 speeds than I care about. I am interested in taking old cars on road trips more than taking them to the track. I found this gem which I found hilarious: http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/1BE8BA47-9082-4556-96CF-8918C9A6A6A3_zpswad1q94y.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  "Much energy, time and money are wasted trying to adapt Toyota Supra transmissions to Jaguars or 4-cylinder S-10 truck 5-speeds to a 1968 Camaro." Hahah... should you put an R154 in your Jaguar? No. In your AMC? Yes! ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Dec/03/2014 at 5:37pm
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I recommend anyone out there who wants to do this hybrid transmission sign up for email alerts from craigslist and Row52 (junkyard inventory search). If you watch for 6 months or so, you can probably get both for cheap. You really have to be ready to pounce if you want to get an R154 at junkyard prices, at least that has been my experience. I'm lucky to have a flexible job and can usually go at the drop of a hat to check out '87-92 Toyota Supra Turbo at the junk yard. I have gotten two this way over the last year but have probably checked out a dozen cars. If you have access to a really big junkyard, you probably get an AX15 2WD from a Jeep or Dodge Durango/Dakota most days. My experience here in CA has been roughly 1/10 Jeeps at the junkyard are manual transmissions and 1/10 are 2WD. I will sometimes drive down to San Jose (biggest yards near me) when they have 5 or more 2WD 93+ Jeeps as it's a coin toss they'll have the AX15 with everything I need. It's annoying but there is a high error rate in listings. Sometimes they won't tell you if it's auto or manual. Sometimes it will be listed incorrectly as the other. Sometimes 2WD will be 4x4 and vice versa. Expect to make a few trips and factor this into your costs if you don't want to wait for one on craigslist. If you don't mind pulling two transmissions, you're more likely to find a '93+ 4x4 AX15 with the bellhousing etc. that you need and a 2WD AX15 behind a Dodge. Make sure to bolt them together as the dopes at the local pick-n-pull would probably charge you for a bellhousing AND a RWD transmission otherwise. For the AX15 your best bet is craigslist alerts as you can get them already pulled for $200 or less. Where I live a manual RWD transmission with bellhousing is about $185 out the door at the Pick-N-Pull so craigslist makes more sense but you have to wait a while for one to pop up. I have got 2 2WD AX15s via craigslist over the last year. The cheaper you can get the cores, the more the project makes sense. Rebuilt R154s go for $1500 plus on eBay so it's probably not worth it if you have to pay top dollar for the R154. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: garsod
Date Posted: Dec/09/2014 at 11:46pm
| Have not heard from you in a while. Do you have any progress to report? |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Dec/10/2014 at 10:34am
I am in Mexico drinking Pacifico and tequila by the beach for the rest of the week ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: garsod
Date Posted: Dec/10/2014 at 9:48pm
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Thats a pretty good reason I would say. Enjoy |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Dec/15/2014 at 6:44pm
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I'm back. While I was gone I ordered some snap ring pliers because I had been using some totally crappy ones for way too long. Snap on SRP5A I also ordered an old set of USA made Craftsman Snap On SRP3 knock offs. I probably should have just got this set, as the big ones (I only bought the other two types) would be best for the main shaft bearings which are large prob 3.5" around  It's been storming hard in California (by our wimpy standards) but I really hope to get the trans in this weekend when the rain is supposed to let up.
------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Dec/28/2014 at 3:37pm
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We have a winner! Finally got the extension pilot in there. After tweaking and back and forth with forum member / machinist Ant, we got it perfect. It goes in with 3-4 hits of a hammer via socket so it's a pretty tight fit without being unreasonably difficult to install and the pilot tip makes as much contact with the bearing surface as possible. Very excited! Below you can see the tip is way in there. In fact, the cone behind the tip may be touching the inner edge of the outer metal ring. Fortunately, it can be set back a hair without removing anything. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/2563C927-E62F-43F6-997C-291CA75CC9F9_zpsqciniulp.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/8942701E-7E8D-41F3-A3B3-9A990925BB18_zpslcfxztsx.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I now have everything I need to install the R154 with AX15 tail back into my Hornet! Being paranoid, I think I'm going to double check my first build before putting her in there. Getting close!!
------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: Ant
Date Posted: Dec/28/2014 at 8:56pm
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On future bushings I can increase the chamfer size for a bit more clearance in necessary, or make slightly shorter. You got me pondering using a r154, found one local for $900 but just not cheap enough to jump on it. Great r&d! I hope others find it useful. If we need something else modified for the swap let me know. ------------- 73 AMX project 401 stroker, t-56 mag Full-time machinist |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Dec/29/2014 at 3:09pm
Yeah $900 is a little high. If you can get both transmissions and bellhousing and all the stock stuff you need for $1000, then the rebuild kit and heavy duty parts have you at around $1500. Getting the parts together is the most tedious part. After that, a competent builder should be able to make one for you and you're under the $2000 mark. Well built it should be able to take about the same abuse as a T56, though reports vary... Marlin rep said one of their built R154s was behind an engine with close to 1000 HP with no problems yet. The T-56 is more awesome for sure being a stout new six speed but it costs substantially more and doesn't include the bellhousing. What excites me about this project is that if you are willing to be scrappy and watch the yards and craigslist for a while, you can get a really badass 5-speed for a relatively low price. The biggest savings to be had are in the cores. Also I've been getting good money on eBay for the leftover R154 parts! If you get a good deal on the R154, the leftover parts from the build could pay for the parts of the transmission you used (the gear set minus 5th)!
------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: garsod
Date Posted: Jan/07/2015 at 11:20pm
| Any news on the build? |
Posted By: garsod
Date Posted: Feb/06/2015 at 12:07am
| Its been a while. Any news? |
Posted By: RAZER
Date Posted: Mar/07/2015 at 1:16pm
| Are there any updates to report?? |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Dec/06/2015 at 4:10pm
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Hey all... I've been away because I needed to finish remodeling my house and sell it and buy another one and move all my crap and redo all the supply plumbing with copper and the 3000 s.f. roof etc... The Hornet has been sitting without a transmission in my parents driveway for a while now and they're not too happy about it! I'm hoping to get the transmission back into the car between now and January sometime but I have to finish this lady's bathroom addition job that's going to be a few more weeks. Last thing I said was: "Being paranoid, I think I'm going to double check my first build before putting her in there." It's a good thing too because there was something very wrong. I forget what it was but the thing wouldn't have shifted. Since then I've taken apart and put back together (MANY times) an AX15 4WD that I rebuilt to sell so I got really fast at teardown and assembly. Where I'm at is I have a bunch of crap in the garage that hasn't been set up yet including my R154/AX15 which is torn down to gearset and intermediary plate in a vice covered in a black plastic trash bag while the Hornet is a 5 min drive away. I am eager to finish the project but I just have so much going on. I'd bet you guys would like to see it on the road as well! Has anybody been inspired to try and track down an R154 and AX15 to do this project? I have a few more pilot bearings here... ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: dpimm
Date Posted: Dec/26/2015 at 9:45am
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I have been following this thread, but have not wanted to take the plunge without knowing how your came out and what it cost you... |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Apr/05/2016 at 1:22pm
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Well I have a month between jobs and I want to get this transmission into my Hornet but gotta finish my taxes this week... I have been buying and remodeling houses in Oakland CA and saving money by living in the fixers but now *fingers crossed* I am trying to stay in the latest house, my 4th. The process of moving my crap around has been a nightmare but I now have a small garage that I can set up it's just full of my stuff and I need to run a sub panel in there. My Hornet was driving roughly with a messed up Holley and the AX-15 but I took it apart to do this crazy transmission project at my parents house who have a nicer garage but they really want the Hornet out of their driveway Anyway I got all my transmission parts out of my garage full of crap and took them over to the car to get ready to put her back together. http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/FCE47266-4DE8-45F5-A59B-96C989205660_zpsa4yf1ici.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Above you can see from left to right - The gear assembly is in the intermediary plate in a vice bolted to a piece of 1" plywood for a stand and wrapped in black plastic The AX15 transmission case halves and to the right the boxes of transmission parts including another R154 set of gears I also have, not pictured, a complete AX-15 2wd external slave trans so I have the parts to make a second one of these hybrid 5 speeds I hope to update you soon when I have the trans in the car but then I gotta work on that Holley model 8007 390cfm carb before I can give you all a description of the test drive. The AX-15 is strong enough for the engine but the 3.83 first gear was too low so I'm thinking the R154 will have good gearing and be very strong. The 89-92 supra turbo is actually around 500 pounds heavier but the 3.0L turbo it has is 232HP and 240lbs torque so similar power to weight ratio as the Hornet with the hot 258. My rear axle is a 3.54 model 20 from a 70 AMX. The Supra had 3.54 up to 4.10 IIRC but had smaller tires than mine which is gonna have some Radial TA tires on 14x7. All that means my Hornet is going to have the drivetrain specs of a factory sports car which is enough for me However I think the R154 gears with the Marlin Crawler parts should be able to take way more power like a built 401 which is why I wanted to share with you all. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Apr/05/2016 at 5:29pm
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Here she is http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/41B69695-88F4-470F-9112-BE0B629C3544_zpsdp7h9x2q.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I'm now remembering that I had it all together but decided to open it up to double check and sure enough I had done something wrong - the 5th gear shift sleeve was on backwards! Good thing I didn't put it in the car like that! So I need to fix that and put the case back together. As a reminder to those who would dare attempt this -the main shaft is from AX15 2wd which determines the tail housing and the AX15 has a better shifter position than the R154 tail housing -input shaft, gears 1-4 and counter gear are all R154 and all together because the counter gear is one piece so you can't swap on the AX15 input shaft because it has a different 4th gear tooth count (though that would make clutch stuff simpler.) -the 5th gear is AX15 because the main shaft behind the intermediary plate is different on the AX-15 and R154. The AX15 5th gear has a built in spacer for some reason. Fortunately the AX-15 5th counter gear can press onto the R154 counter gear assembly. Only the 5th counter gear is pressed on - the rest of the counter gears are connected -the intermediary plate which goes between the case halves is the same shape for AX15 and R154 but the R154 plate is used because it is steel not aluminum as on the AX15. The AX15 and R154 are very similar but the R154 has different ratios and was built to higher spec. You can see that in the steel gear plate and the gears are a different shade suggesting a different process used for stronger gears ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Apr/08/2016 at 7:49pm
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Assembled on the bench http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/69393ADB-8CEF-4CC2-BB76-5A6EE7773527_zpss3hwjt4e.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Bench testing with the Hurst shifter http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/1DAC0715-9A8A-49F2-BC55-3111F73F0002_zpshvkoefmv.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I put in the 21 spline clutch disc with the Toyota clutch alignment tool http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/E41889C9-9CA1-40F0-908F-F956764EAA3E_zpsvh00of7q.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I put on the bellhousing after I get it under the car because the bell is real big and the trans is heavy http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/6195F0C7-ADA4-4788-A867-280926DBFB16_zpsjcz5qj2w.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Getting ready to lift this beast into place. If you've seen an AX-15 it's huge and the R154 gears and intermediary plate add even more weight. This guy is about 100lbs and not that fun to put in because there's very little clearance http://s95.photobucket.com/user/ewhart/media/71Hornet6/F4143992-7AEB-46F4-9C63-C0631F45EC36_zpsfmihrjgp.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Apr/12/2016 at 2:20pm
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When I bench tested it, the overdrive was about .6 I was a bit confused by this, since I was expecting the AX15 ratio of .79 Turns out the R154 counter gear ratio is different and that makes a .63 5th gear http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?153443-.63-overdrive-5th-gear-for-R154-for-those-that-dont-know!!!#/forumsite/20626/topics/153443?page=1 Since I want an overdrive closer to .75, I'll have to use the R154 5th gears with a spacer to fit on the AX15 output shaft. I will need a ring spacer about 5/16" which I'm having fabricated ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Apr/24/2016 at 10:25pm
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I test drove the car a couple times this weekend The R154 gears are much better for a passenger car than the AX-15 gears I still have the 3.54 rear end and may want 3.08 or 3.15 rear gears I'm also tuning the carb and it needs some work still for optimum response I have the AX15 gear in 5th which makes .63 overdrive I may put in the .75 overdrive gear from the R154 depending on what rear gear ratio I choose To sum it up, the build needs a pilot adaptor and possibly a 5th gear spacer ring to use the R154 5th gear but otherwise the parts are mostly stock The 21 spline clutch disc is the other special piece which is available If you can get the R154 and AX15 2wd with the external slave from a junkyard, this becomes a really cool and relatively cheap swap It's best for a car that already has the hydraulic clutch like a Concord or Spirit For an Eagle I think the AX15 4wd is the way to go The hydraulic clutch conversion is tricky unless you can get manual transmission hydraulic clutch pedals for your Gremlin or Hornet. Well it works! It's been road tested! Pretty satisfying to finally have it in the car! ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: garsod
Date Posted: Apr/25/2016 at 2:26am
| Great to hear. Drive the pants off of it. Enjoy |
Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Apr/25/2016 at 6:47am
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Your 'THE MAN'! -for doing this conversion article, with all the good info & showing the swap into your Hornet. Congratulations for your successful swap. |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: May/03/2016 at 5:59pm
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One last little thing - I needed a starter shim. I used a 4.0L flywheel on the 258 because the 258 flywheel stuck out an extra 1/4" and messed up the clutch geometry so that it couldn't function at all - I learned that the hard way. The 4.0L flywheel means you need to use a 4.0L starter. The starter was making a noise for about 1 second when I fired it up. Yes I replaced the starter solenoid to make sure it was functioning. I took off the starter and measured to find the problem -on the trans - space from inspection plate face (starter mounting surface) to flywheel teeth -on the starter - starter mounting surface to starter pinion They were both about 3/8" so the starter pinion was essentially touching the flywheel teeth. It needed to be spaced out to give a small gap. There is a .1" spacer for the Ford starter called Dorman Starter Offset Shims 02359that's about $8 from Summit or NAPA p/n 655-1188That took care of the problem. Why did I need a starter shim? The transition from 258 to 4.2L and 4.2L to 4.0L contains some mysteries in the flywheel/bellhousing area that I don't fully understand but be warned when doing transmission swaps between different eras of straight six. ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: Greg55_99
Date Posted: Sep/12/2016 at 12:33pm
| Any updates on the swap? |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Sep/12/2016 at 9:25pm
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The swap is in... I have some hydraulic clutch issues with the eagle master and cherokee slave hydraulic clutch system I set up. This was working before with the AX-15 so I think it might be leakage because it seems to lose hydraulic pressure after some time driving. I'm pretty sure there's nothing wrong with the actual transmission I built. At least I hope it's just hyd clutch I have 3.15 gears I think in the garage to put in the AMC20. The 3.54 are a little off I am working a lot and hopefully will have time to play with it in December ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: 71hornet6
Date Posted: Mar/30/2017 at 10:59pm
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I fired it up again and it ran surprisingly smooth Drove it around for a while and I had the same clutch problem 10 minutes and the clutch stops working. Still trying to figure that one out ------------- '71 FrankenHornet: '72 258 '95 4.0L Head Holley 390CFM AX15 with R154 gears 5 speed Hurst shifter AMC20 rear axle Detroit TrueTrac Dual Exhaust Concord Discs Spirit AMX sway bars |
Posted By: Skulljeep
Date Posted: Dec/13/2023 at 8:18pm
| I know its been about 6 years, but are you still making hybrid transmissions? And Did you fix the clutch issue? |