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65 Rambler Classic 660 Cross Country

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Topic: 65 Rambler Classic 660 Cross Country
Posted By: RebelRay
Subject: 65 Rambler Classic 660 Cross Country
Date Posted: Aug/11/2014 at 11:53pm
Well, looks like the parking situation at my house is going to get a little more interesting.  I just made final arrangements with Andrew (TheHubble) to buy his 65 Classic wagon. Big smile  He's going to deliver it this Saturday and I've never wanted a week to end so intensely!  

It will need a lot of TLC, which I intend to document here.  I plan to lower it a bit and pretty much drive it like it is now.  I know some don't understand the whole "patina" thing, but I certainly do and this car has perfect patina.  That doesn't mean I'm not going to patch panels and fix things.  Quite the opposite.  But don't expect a fancy paint job and flawless sheet metal here, either.  It's just too cool the way it looks now.

Here's the current list of known issues and things to do:

  1. No engine - I plan to drop another 232 in it, so I'll need to source an early 232 (71 and older).
  2. Cracked windshield - I believe any 65-66 Classic/Ambassador and maybe 67 windshield should work.
  3. Rust - It doesn't have too much, but the floor pans and tailgate areas have some issues, as well as the rear quarters and some other small spots here and there.
  4. Brakes - Andrew never got a chance to dig into the brakes.  I'll probably rebuild them to be safe.  We'll see when it gets here.
  5. Doors - It looks like someone forgot to set the parking brake and it rolled backwards into the garage door with both doors open.  At least that's what I imagine happened.
  6. Drive it! - Ok, maybe a bit optimistic, but hey, a guy can dream Smile


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Replies:
Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Aug/12/2014 at 12:13am
Here's some pictures that Andrew took for me.  This wagon is so cool!  Cool

















Now THIS is a rear profile!  Mmmmm tailgate.  First road trip:  http://www.starlitedrivein.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.starlitedrivein.com/


She's got some junk in the trunk Wink  when I say junk, I mean lots of both NOS, spare, and new parts!


Some rust in the tailgate area.   


The transmission is out and on torque tube cars the transmission keeps the rear wheels centered.  So when Andrew moved it out into the driveway, the rear axle swung a little bit.  So no issue there, just looks funny in the pictures!





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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: mitchs66
Date Posted: Aug/12/2014 at 8:11am
That will be a fun project. Wagons are very cool.


Posted By: rocklandrambler
Date Posted: Aug/12/2014 at 9:39am
Ray, make sure you check the cowl area on the driver's side and in the hidden compartment in the back on the passenger side for rust. Those two areas on my '64 660 wagon were bad and I think it's a common area for rust on the Classic/Ambos.

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Past AMC's
1974 Hornet X (new)
1975 Gremlin X (new)
1964 Classic 660 Cross Country
1965 American 440-H


Posted By: SEdmonds
Date Posted: Aug/12/2014 at 10:20am
The station wagons and 4 door sedans have a different windshield than other Ambos/Classics. It's 2 inches taller. Be sure you get one that fits wagons.

Also - you might want to gently remove that headliner and inspect what's going on to the underside of the roof. The gaskets of the roof rack often rot and water leaks in. I detect some tell-tale roof rot at the back of the roof over the tailgate window. Arrested decay is fine - but you might have a more compromised roof than you want. If you take the headliner out, you can treat it and prevent more of it. Taking the headliner out isn't odious. It's in two pieces. Remove all the trim from around the edges of it and lower it down. It's a two person job, but isn't awful. The headliner is a thin fiberglass shell covered in fabric.


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Aug/12/2014 at 11:10am
Thanks for the info SEdmonds and RocklandRambler. Does the 4 door sedan glass fit the wagon? Or is it wagon only? I'll check the roof and cowl area when it gets here. I've been practicing my welding on my sister-in-law's jeep, so I'm fairly confident I can patch what I need to. I'll just have to take it slow so I don't warp the panels! That was less of a concern on her jeep!

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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: SEdmonds
Date Posted: Aug/12/2014 at 1:18pm
I will have to check my notes on the restoration of my car (and I am at lunch at work), BUT I believe the wagons and the 4 door sedans used the same windshields.


Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Aug/12/2014 at 3:19pm
You definitely need a wiper motor mount plate.

Pull it out and you will probably find some rust there. You can treat it and fiberglas it unless it is major.
Both cowl corners need checked a probably some repair.

The roof is a common rust area in the south, I think due to leaking gaskets and condensation.

I'd give you a 69 232, but it is a bit far away from you.




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Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler
4.0L, 5 speed
2015 Grand Cherokee Limited
2019 Chrysler 300


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Aug/19/2014 at 12:37am
She's here!   Andrew dropped her off Saturday afternoon (thanks again, Andrew!)  I haven't been able to look her over very well just yet.  I made a promise to help my brother and sister-in-law with their Jeep.  I did take the transmission with us over to the garage and cleaned it up some.

Only one pic for now.  The rest are on the big camera and I need to get to bed.  I'll post those tomorrow.  This one's a kind of "before and after" on the transmission.  It was coated with a thick layer of grease, oil, and dirt.  Here's hoping it works and I didn't do all that scrubbing for nothing!



Ray


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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Aug/19/2014 at 3:12pm
If it doesn't work that is still how clean you want it before rebuild.
Keep scrubbing!


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Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler
4.0L, 5 speed
2015 Grand Cherokee Limited
2019 Chrysler 300


Posted By: seadoo
Date Posted: Aug/19/2014 at 4:39pm

Not sure if you got your answer but sedan and wagon windshield are the same.

Now if you end up needing the tailgate or cargo area glass. 63-65 Classic/Ambassador wagons will interchange.   For the rear glass only 66 wagons will not work....been there done that once...
 
 


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Tim

Manassas Park, VA

65 Ambassador 990-H


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Aug/19/2014 at 9:35pm
Thanks for confirming that about the windshields!  I'll keep my eyes peeled.  

I cleaned the transmission a lot more today.  Not perfect, but 85% of the grease and muck is gone.  It was so bad in spots that you couldn't tell there were bumps and valleys until you scraped away the grease!  




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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/11/2014 at 11:50pm
Small update, I went through the car to see what I had and found some nice goodies.  I snapped a bunch of pictures since I know you guys can't get enough of Rambler wagons!  Big smile

SEdmonds, you were right about the roof rack gaskets.  They're in pretty poor shape.  As are the all of the window gaskets. Cry  Do any of the vendors sell roof rack gaskets or do I need to find some rubber sheet and make my own?





It was fun going through all of the parts.  Kinda like Christmas and my birthday all wrapped into one. 

Newer-ish radiator.  How do you tell how many cores it has?


There was a box full of goodies that had all of this shown in the next 2 pictures.

Pic 1 Contents (left to right, top to bottom):  Universal Joint, 2 wheel cylinders (surface rust, look like new inside), rubber brake lines, starter motor brushes, piston rings, neutral safety switch (barely visible behind the trans mount), trans mount, rear tailgate window crank (damaged but fixable), headlight switch, seal of some sort.  Looks like either a rear main seal or a trans output shaft seal?.


Tie rod end (another is in a box, not pictured), I know the 2 things below the tie rod end are steering parts but I have no idea what they are called!, control arm bushing kit (I've looked the number on the box up online (Prothane 1-206) and it looks like this kit may be for Americans, not Classics.  Anyone know?), ball joint, carb kit (not full rebuild but I can't remember what part of the carb it was for...)


The valve cover, air breather, and some random rockers, springs, and other doo-dads are all that's left of the original motor.  Time to crack open those storage compartments (which are waaaay cool, by the way!)


The big compartment reveals much of the engine accessories along with the torque converter, transmission yolk, and original vacuum wiper motor which I plan to rebuild.


Wiper motor and yolk


Also in the big compartment was another wheel cylinder and 2 more rubber lines!  Woot!


Box of general odds and ends.  Mostly drum brake and valve parts.


The second, smaller compartment after I removed it's contents.  I'm glad to find both compartments are rust free!


The smaller compartment housed the cooling fan, a hinge for.... something, a blue dealie-bob, and some hoses (2 old, one new).


In the back seat was a box with lowering springs.  The previous owner tells me these were for a sedan, so he guessed they would drop a little lower on a wagon.  I don't plan to use them.  If I lower the wagon, it will be with air bags so I can still drive it on these lovely Missouri roads. Dead


This was an original A/C car and air conditioning of some sort is going back in!  I hear there's a better, less power sapping compressor, so I don't know if this one will go back in or not.


The car also came with a set of 4 full wheel hubcaps.  I'm more of a "poverty cap" kinda guy, so these will probably go to a new home at some point.


Thus ends my collection of goodies.  I want to go through the whole car and identify just how bad the rust area's are.  I know the firewall has some issues.  Probably due to crud sitting in the cowl and rusting through.  I hear that's a problem with these.  So I'll pull the cowl cover off and see what's what.

Sorry for a long post!

Ray


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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/12/2014 at 12:12am
How cool are these add-on speakers?!  I love it!  I'll clean them up, replace the speakers, and mount them a little better, but they're staying!

The dash cleaned up pretty well.  It's still worn out, but at least it's not 49 years of ick AND worn out.LOL


Rust-through on the passenger side firewall.  At least from here you can see the tires have good tread!


Driver's side is just as bad.  Good thing I've gotten some practice time in on my welder!


I found this in the back seat and immediately ran out to stick my head under the front of the car hoping to see discs.  Nope, still drum. Cry  Somebody clean those fingernails! Shocked


I also found this in the back seat.  Someone had excellent taste in vintage cars but terrible taste in music!  But at least they saved $2.99! 


I hear I can get a new liner from one of the vendors.  Is it a drop in replacement?  Is it true it's only $20?!



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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: SEdmonds
Date Posted: Sep/12/2014 at 12:56am
Cool stuff! On the roof rack gaskets - we ended up making our own. Check with the vendors - maybe someone is reproducing them now.


Posted By: rocklandrambler
Date Posted: Sep/12/2014 at 2:44am
Unless you really think roof racks are Waaaaay Kool I'd remove it and fill in the holes. No one really uses them. The glove box liners are usually held in with trim screws. Check eBay as there is usually a vendor on there selling them.

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Past AMC's
1974 Hornet X (new)
1975 Gremlin X (new)
1964 Classic 660 Cross Country
1965 American 440-H


Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Sep/12/2014 at 5:38am
My Dad was born in Dardanelle, AR, just across the river from Russellville.  We used to vacation in the area each July when I was a kid.  We always bought our fireworks in Russellville and took extras home to our friends in Indiana.   Still have all my fingers.   With that cowl rust, you will want to pull both front fenders and the cowl grille, if it is removable like on the 63 and 64 Classics and check for hidden rust.  Joe

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Happiness is making something out of nothing.


Posted By: SnakePlissken
Date Posted: Sep/12/2014 at 9:36pm
Cool car, am I seeing this is a factory air car ?

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1976 Matador & 1972 Gremlin


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/15/2014 at 10:57pm
Originally posted by SnakePlissken SnakePlissken wrote:

Cool car, am I seeing this is a factory air car ?

Thanks!  She sure is!  It came with a compressor, but I hear there's an alternative that robs less power from the motor, so I may go that route.  For now I'm working on just getting her ready to get a motor.  I want to repair the firewalls and cowl area first.

This last Sunday, my brother and sister-in-law came by the house with their Jeep and we had a wrenching party.  We hopped back and forth between my wagon and my SIL's 1977-but-actually-mostly-1980-and-part-Chevy Jeep CJ5, appropriately nicknamed Frank, short for Frankenjeep. LOL  We started by pulling the passenger side fender so we could get to the damaged firewall.

One bolt was tucked into the area between the top door hinge and the top of the fender and had NO room to get a wrench on it.  So off came the door.  I took the door off before my brother and SIL got to the house.  The first words out of her mouth when she saw the missing door was "Ray, it's not a Jeep."  Ouch



After removing the grill, headlight buckets, all of the bolts, and took the passenger bumper loose, we still couldn't get the fender to come off the back.  It felt like there was something holding it on the bottom.  There was!  A couple spot welds!  One on the bottom of the fender under the car, the other where the rocker panel becomes the door frame.  



 I thought some idiot in the cars past had lost a bolt and figured a couple tacks would hold it.  As it turns out, I read later that night, the factory did it!  And in some Kiwi versions of the Classic, the fender is brazed to the car at the door frame!  

A couple of seconds with the cut-off wheel finished removing the fender from the car:


In the picture above, you can see where I did some "exploratory surgery".  Which brings us to the cowl area.  For those of you who don't know, the heater core air opening on the Classic is poorly designed and prone to rust.   Dirt and debris clogs the area around heater core opening causing water to sit and rust out the cowl.  I had two choices, cut the cowl or remove the dash and heater/vent assembly. 

I decided to go ahead and cut the cowl for a few reasons.  One, I didn't know how far the rust went across the cowl.  Opening it up let me make sure I got it all.  Two, I was already planning on welding in new metal for the heater core area and both driver's and passenger's firewalls, so welding the cowl area doesn't add a lot of extra effort to the project.  Third, I have no motor to block access to the cowl.  At times I was standing where the motor goes.

I started small since I wasn't sure if it was just a small hole or not.


Further inspection made it clear that I would need to open up a much larger area.


So most of the cowl was removed.


It looks like all of the cowl damage is limited to the passenger side.  In this picture you can see how narrow the passage for water and debris to get past the heater core is.  It's only about half an inch or so.  I imagine it didn't take long for rust to start forming.  I'm trying to come up with a better design so this won't happen again.  Any thoughts?

On top of the cowl and firewall rust, I'll also need to address the small triangular fender troughs/fender struts.  The drain holes were just little slits that got clogged with dirt just like the cowl.  I've only seen the passenger side so far, but I suspect the drivers side is just as far gone.  I don't know why AMC thought that little slit would be adequate.  I suppose we have hindsight on our side, but still...

Fender trough after removing the fender:


After removing the dirt:


The whole of the trough will be replaced.  And judging by the rear-most bolt on the driver side, I'll be doing the same over there:


And here's a bonus picture of Frankenjeep next to my 2012 JK:


Ray


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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: SnakePlissken
Date Posted: Sep/15/2014 at 11:40pm
In the picture above, you can see where I did some "exploratory surgery".  Which brings us to the cowl area.  For those of you who don't know, the heater core air opening on the Classic is poorly designed and prone to rust.   Dirt and debris clogs the area around heater core opening causing water to sit and rust out the cowl.  I had two choices, cut the cowl or remove the dash and heater/vent assembly. 


It sure was. Back around 1994 I had a mint 65 or 66 white Classic 4 door and after a rain or during a rain the pass floor was wet (when I bought I wondered why the carpet was all messed up) and almost sounded like a small water fountain, luckily it was garaged and not rusty, I ended up cleaning it out. 

I spotted this on craigslist wondering if the one in Mexico Missouri is my old one ? I last saw it around 1996 and the new owner was in Festus. 


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1976 Matador & 1972 Gremlin


Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Sep/16/2014 at 10:15am
If you are staying factory with HVAC in the car.
I'd recommend you build a sloped panel that started about the mid point of the core and angled down.
I'd do that on the front and the side closest to the wiper motor, perhaps even the outside? Then I'd make the lip about 2"s tall on any side the roof does not cover.

On my Convertible I simply welded a gigantic sloped plate over the whole hole. Gone.
   When I get to it I will put a vintage air or maybe just a heat only box without the outside air intake.
It's a convertible and I'm not too concerned with much more than defrosters and some floor heat. A/C? just don't know if I want to fool with it.

My troughs are longer and in worse shape than those! so, don't get too discouraged. Just take you time and plan so you don't weld yourself into a spot that leaves you unable to weld another spot!

If you can swing the money, I'd recommend a shrinker/stretcher tool/s. Check ebay as I bought one from HF, then turned around and got one of each on ebay for like $15 and $20 ea! They were returns sold by a third party. They make it easy to get a flange that follows the corners you need to put back in the cowl and even the lip around the HVAC intake.  I'd also recommend a small metal brake, even the 18" one from HF makes life easier.

Don't forget to have fun, and don't sit cross legged under the spot you are welding!


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Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler
4.0L, 5 speed
2015 Grand Cherokee Limited
2019 Chrysler 300


Posted By: Harry the hoser
Date Posted: Sep/16/2014 at 11:21am
Can any one tell me how to run an add for parts I need? I have a 64 99H ambassador 2 door hard top that I need glass for, and I have a 1960 4 door that I need the 2 passenger doors for I am new to this forum and really can,t even find a classified section to look for parts thanks in advance for any help 


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/16/2014 at 12:34pm
Hey Harry, 

Welcome to the site.  I think you have to have 30 posts before you can post in the "Parts Wanted" and "For Sale" sections.  You can still read them though and Private Message someone if they have a part you need.  30 posts goes quickly.  Just check out some topics you like and make a comment.  Or start a topic of your own.  The folks on this forum are a great community and always willing to answer questions or just chat.

Ray


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Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/16/2014 at 12:58pm
@Wrambler:  I do plan to keep the stock HVAC.  My brother and I have been discussing various ways to prevent water and debris from rusting it out again.  So far, the best solution we have devised is to weld in a partition between the heater core area and the air inlet.  The partition would have a slot of some sort 1-2 inches above the bottom of the cowl to let air into the heater core area.  This should stop pine needles and leaves from getting over and clogging the channels near the heater core air opening.

Needles and debris would still collect behind the wiper motor, but since the cowl is only held on by screws, I can clean that periodically.  There's no way to reach the heater core from the cowl vents, so it's understandable that nobody cleaned it before.  

That plan isn't set in stone yet.  I'm going to worry about fixing what's there first and then spend some of my considerable brain power Big smile figuring out how to stop it from happening again.

Thanks for the input!

Ray


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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Sep/16/2014 at 3:32pm
I did like seeing the Yoke from the torque tube.
That pretty much answers my internal question as to if the pre CV joint TT yoke could be used to replace the 65-66 Yoke. I'd bet money it will.

So, if anyone parts out any TT cars before they added in that now hard to get parts for CV save the Yoke! This would be all the automatic cars up till 65, maybe? you could probably swap in the whole shaft.

Do you have it? I'd be interested in measurements to compare, I have a 65 shaft out in my garage.


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Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler
4.0L, 5 speed
2015 Grand Cherokee Limited
2019 Chrysler 300


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/16/2014 at 3:55pm
So there were two different yolks used in the TT cars?  I wasn't aware.  Is the yolk in the pictures not correct for my car (a '65)?  I'll look and see if there's anything out on the TT itself when I get home.  I can measure anything you want :)

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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Sep/16/2014 at 5:55pm
Id say you are lucky to have the engine out now to fix it.


Posted By: Harry the hoser
Date Posted: Sep/16/2014 at 7:19pm


Posted By: Harry the hoser
Date Posted: Sep/16/2014 at 7:20pm
how do I start a new thread as I am looking for some parts and can,t find a classified section here


Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Sep/16/2014 at 8:39pm
No, I think yours is correct for the 6 cyl. The 8 cyl got a double U-joint/CV type joint and now it is hard to find parts for. The theory is the double CV provides a smoother operation, but they did not use it until the end of the TT? They were shooting for Gold with the Ambassador and the wheelbase stretch, so that is best guess?

I got the threads I was looking at mixed up, didn't mean to scare you!


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Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler
4.0L, 5 speed
2015 Grand Cherokee Limited
2019 Chrysler 300


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/17/2014 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by Harry the hoser Harry the hoser wrote:

how do I start a new thread as I am looking for some parts and can,t find a classified section here

Harry, give Paul Novak a call at (573) 760-2962.  He knows where a parts car is that has good doors and can get you a deal on them.  

The "classified" section of this site is known as "The trading post" and can be accessed at this link:  http://theamcforum.com/forum/the-trading-post-sale-wanted-vendorsshipping_forums_cat4.html" rel="nofollow - http://theamcforum.com/forum/the-trading-post-sale-wanted-vendorsshipping_forums_cat4.html   In there you will find the "For Sale" and the "Wanted" sections.  You may not be able to create a new topic until you've reached 30 posts (look under your name to the left to see how many posts you have).  The "New Topic" button will be just above the list of existing topics if you can.  Otherwise you'll have to post more before you can use them.  But give Paul a call.  He's a good guy and would love to save more of this car before it goes to scrap.

Ray


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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/18/2014 at 1:35am
Completed a small project today.  Progress!  When Paul Novak (hope I spelled that right, Paul!) stopped by last Sunday, we spoke a bit about the side mirror.   The previous owner included a replacement glass, but I was unaware that there were 3 little springs missing.  Paul filled me in on that detail.  He also pointed out the snap ring that holds the glass in.

Removing the mirror from the car is a lot easier if you remove the head from the base.  There's one screw in the back of the mirror that holds the head in place. 


Be careful if you remove it, however.  There's a spring inside that you don't want to loose!


The head is all we really need. 


I went ahead and removed the base so I could inspect the metal behind it.  With the head off, both mounting screws are a cinch to remove.



Now where to get some small and not-too-strong springs... Disapprove  Oh!  I know!


With three mechanical pencils sacrificed for their springs, I was ready to start installing the glass.



Removing the snap ring just took a few secnds with a good set of pliers.


Then it was just a matter of putting on the springs, then the mirror, and finally; reinstalling the snap ring.

Good as new!



I guess the springs were starting to sag:


Normally the Jeep's back here, but today was a double Rambler kind of day!





 


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Posted By: Harry the hoser
Date Posted: Sep/18/2014 at 4:25am
thanks a million I will call him in the morning . I am still looking for the front and rear windshields for a 64 Rambler Ambassador 2 door hard top if anyone knows where I can find a used set thanks again


Posted By: 2beersmaybe3
Date Posted: Sep/18/2014 at 7:37am
So the springs from a pen worked. Good deal. I fixed my rear view mirror a weird way. It kept dropping down. So I took it apart & cleaned the pivot ball. Still sagged. So took back apart and shimmed it with a small piece of flasking. It works great now. My door mirror is a after market. Had to do the same. The flashing is a softer metal & will eventually wear out so to keep this from happening I just won't let anyone else drive it so the mirrors should stay where I put them

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1963 Classic 770 Cross Country
1964 Classic 660 4door
1964 Classic 770 2 door sedan


Posted By: SnakePlissken
Date Posted: Sep/19/2014 at 1:32pm
You have one of these Ray ? 

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1976 Matador & 1972 Gremlin


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/19/2014 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by SnakePlissken SnakePlissken wrote:

You have one of these Ray ? 

Not yet!  It's on my wish list! 


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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: SnakePlissken
Date Posted: Sep/19/2014 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by RebelRay RebelRay wrote:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken SnakePlissken wrote:

You have one of these Ray ? 

Not yet!  It's on my wish list! 

It's yours then. 


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1976 Matador & 1972 Gremlin


Posted By: Mr. Ed
Date Posted: Sep/20/2014 at 8:53am
Originally posted by RebelRay RebelRay wrote:

She's here!   Andrew dropped her off Saturday afternoon (thanks again, Andrew!)  I haven't been able to look her over very well just yet.  I made a promise to help my brother and sister-in-law with their Jeep.  I did take the transmission with us over to the garage and cleaned it up some.

Only one pic for now.  The rest are on the big camera and I need to get to bed.  I'll post those tomorrow.  This one's a kind of "before and after" on the transmission.  It was coated with a thick layer of grease, oil, and dirt.  Here's hoping it works and I didn't do all that scrubbing for nothing!



Ray


That is not grease. According to George W that is preservative!

Later!
Mr. Ed


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2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo "Gwendolyn."
1978 Concord Sport coupe "Mr. Black".
1982 Concord wagon. The Admiral. FOR SALE!
1976 Sportabout X, 304, auto, air. The Bronze Goddess



Posted By: Harry the hoser
Date Posted: Sep/20/2014 at 9:00am
Thanks for the info I found the trading post but thanks anyway I also have already contacted Paul


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/22/2014 at 8:57pm
Originally posted by SnakePlissken SnakePlissken wrote:

It's yours then. 

Thanks!  I'll see you at the next meetup.  I don't suppose it tells you how the radio and other dash switches come out?!  I thought I'd have it out in minutes, but I can't see how it comes out!  I've removed old car stereos before but the usual "pull the knob off and undo a couple nuts" doesn't seem to be the answer here.  I need to pull the dash so I can get at the repair area.

Originally posted by Mr. Ed Mr. Ed wrote:

 That is not grease. According to George W that is preservative!

Well, it was well preserved then!  Confused


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Posted By: dltowers
Date Posted: Sep/22/2014 at 9:03pm
Ray, I have a technical question....
From your photo, I did not know that Ramblers had "Rear Engines?"
This scene brings back bad memories of how the wife's Javelin looked when we picked it up from first bodyshop.
Just joking, great looking car, I will enjoy following your progressThumbs Up....


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Original Owner, 1974 Javelin:
360ci,2v,727TC. Motorola Multiplex with 8-Track.
G4 Plum exterior with 421Q Black Uganda Interior. Purchased on July 16, 1974 from Hooker AMC, Sherman, TX for $4500.20


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/22/2014 at 9:13pm
A few days ago I received a PM from rocklandrambler asking for my address.  He said he had a couple things I might be able to use on the wagon.  Who could refuse free mystery parts!  

In the mail a couple days later comes a package with two roof rack tie downs with good gaskets and a note that says a lot about how great a guy the man who wrote it is.  Thanks a bunch, Mike.  Like I said in my PM to you, I'll try to do the same for another forum member down the line.  

What a great day.  Smile





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Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/22/2014 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by dltowers dltowers wrote:

Ray, I have a technical question....
From your photo, I did not know that Ramblers had "Rear Engines?"

This is the rare "out of engine cam" (OOEC) model, too!  It doubles the horsepower!  I got a good laugh out of your post.  LOL  

Ray


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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: dltowers
Date Posted: Sep/22/2014 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by RebelRay RebelRay wrote:

[QUOTE=dltowers] Ray, I have a technical question....
From your photo, I did not know that Ramblers had "Rear Engines?"

This is the rare "out of engine cam" (OOEC) model, too!  It doubles the horsepower!  I got a good laugh out of your post.  LOL  

Ray, We all have to laugh at each other's "Trials and Tribulations".  It makes the journey alot easier to travel....Lord knows, I have experienced my fair share of setbacks along the way....


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Original Owner, 1974 Javelin:
360ci,2v,727TC. Motorola Multiplex with 8-Track.
G4 Plum exterior with 421Q Black Uganda Interior. Purchased on July 16, 1974 from Hooker AMC, Sherman, TX for $4500.20


Posted By: 2beersmaybe3
Date Posted: Sep/22/2014 at 9:39pm
Well you know rambler had to do what they had to do to compete. Most the ads from back then were picking on VW. So like Chevy and their Corvair, here's Ramblers answer to the ole' "Can't beat em, join em". Gotta be a rare, low production model. Great find.

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1963 Classic 770 Cross Country
1964 Classic 660 4door
1964 Classic 770 2 door sedan


Posted By: SnakePlissken
Date Posted: Sep/24/2014 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by RebelRay RebelRay wrote:

Thanks!  I'll see you at the next meetup.  I don't suppose it tells you how the radio and other dash switches come out?!  I thought I'd have it out in minutes, but I can't see how it comes out!  I've removed old car stereos before but the usual "pull the knob off and undo a couple nuts" doesn't seem to be the answer here.  I need to pull the dash so I can get at the repair area.

It might, I honestly have not looked through it much. I have a 1964 manual as well (got a package deal) but that's going to my friend who has a six cylinder Classic 


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1976 Matador & 1972 Gremlin


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/25/2014 at 12:11am
I figured the radio and the switches out.  Now I just need to remove the cluster, air conditioning controls, and the myriad of "custom" switches and knobs that line the underside of the dash.

The switches turned out to be simple enough.  A small allen screw held the knobs on and then a slit in the bezel for the switch could be turned counter-clockwise to remove the bezel (and the switch).  The headlight switch was the only difference.  Instead, there was a button to depress on the switch itself.  I had to reach up under the dash to push the button while pulling on the knob.  Luckily, I knew this trick already.  

I also pulled the "weather eye" controls.  Those will be getting a fresh coat of grease.  They are somewhat stiff.  The defroster cable was replaced at some point and currently runs to the passenger floor.  I hope that's not a sign of the functionality of the air diverter within the air ducts!



The radio was not so simple.  Looking at it's knobs, I saw no allen screws or ways to release the knobs.


After a brief moment of frustration, I found this Marlin site that explained how the radio was removed (and how to disassemble a good portion of the dash, my current goal!)   http://www.marlinautoclub.com/marlin-guy/dash.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.marlinautoclub.com/marlin-guy/dash.html

It described how to remove the A/C vents and the chrome trim that runs along the bottom of the cluster and vents.  When I removed the trim, I found some old business cards (well, pieces of them) folded and shoved behind the trim.  Guess it was squeaking!


But when it got to the radio itself, it simply said to "remove the knobs".  Yes, but how?!  The answer, it turns out, is pull.  Hard.  Wiggling helps.


Now I need to remove the A/C controls and drop out the radio.  Then it's on to the cluster and all of the decades worth of aftermarket switches and knobs under the dash.  With luck I can have the dash out by the weekend so I can get serious about fixing this rust.




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Posted By: rocklandrambler
Date Posted: Sep/25/2014 at 2:13am
Coming along nicely. Question? Do you have a TSM for this particular vehicle? From some of your comments I'm guessing NO. You really should find one. I also sense your age, in this case, is against you. You're just too darned YOUNG to know these things. Most of us "old farts" would know just what to do since we've done them SOOOOOOOOOOOOO many times over the years. However, being young also has it's advantages. You're probably "nimble" enough to be able to get under dashboards and underneath the car. Those are things that are getting harder and harder for the "O.F."s to do.

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Past AMC's
1974 Hornet X (new)
1975 Gremlin X (new)
1964 Classic 660 Cross Country
1965 American 440-H


Posted By: dltowers
Date Posted: Sep/25/2014 at 9:32am
Originally posted by rocklandrambler rocklandrambler wrote:

Coming along nicely. Question? Do you have a TSM for this particular vehicle? From some of your comments I'm guessing NO. You really should find one. I also sense your age, in this case, is against you. You're just too darned YOUNG to know these things. Most of us "old farts" would know just what to do since we've done them SOOOOOOOOOOOOO many times over the years. However, being young also has it's advantages. You're probably "nimble" enough to be able to get under dashboards and underneath the car. Those are things that are getting harder and harder for the "O.F."s to do.
 
Mike, regarding "O.F.", you are so correct, Today I turn the big 63, and I can speak from personal experience that it is getting harder and harder to get in/out of the wife's Javelin. It just sits too darn close to the roadBig smile.


-------------
Original Owner, 1974 Javelin:
360ci,2v,727TC. Motorola Multiplex with 8-Track.
G4 Plum exterior with 421Q Black Uganda Interior. Purchased on July 16, 1974 from Hooker AMC, Sherman, TX for $4500.20


Posted By: BrotherBamc
Date Posted: Sep/25/2014 at 3:46pm
Subscribed for further updates!!
Cool Wagons!
Gotta Love em'!
W.


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/29/2014 at 12:15am
Mike, I'm picking up a TSM from SnakePlissken at the next Gateway AMC meetup.  Until then, I'm using a combination of Google and staring.  So far so good!  LOL

I've made some decent progress this weekend, if a bit less than I wanted to.  Like usual, my estimations for how long things take were "optimistic".

On Friday, I finally got everything connected to the dash disconnected and the dash out.  Thanks in large part to my brother Rog (which is usually the case).  Pardon the mess.


Saturday, I was able to get the heater and A/C boxes out of the car, this time with the help of my Sister-in-law.  She stopped by to see if I could take my niece to a roller skating party because he was having hip pains.  So since we had some time before I needed to leave, I had her help me take out the boxes.  Big smile With the heater and A/C boxes removed, I could finally get at the heater core cowl area.


By the time I got back from the party it was getting too late to work outside (and I was sore!), so I decided to clean up the heater box inside.  It needed it!


The box isn't in terrible shape.  There some small stress cracks that i'll fix with a fiberglass repair kit.  But this spring is toast.  It's in 3 pieces now.  Anyone know of a place to get replacements?  My first instinct is to look at Lowe's.


Apparently I never took a picture of it all cleaned up.  I'll have to take one tomorrow.  The A/C box still needs some tender loving care.  Plus, I'll need to find a new or good used heater core too.  Mine leaks and on top of that, I dropped it and bent the coolant input and output lines. Ouch


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Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/29/2014 at 12:38am
Rog came over Saturday evening and stayed the night so we could get started early Sunday.  We started by cutting the cancerous material out of the cowl.



It's hard to tell in this picture, but most of the heater core section is paper thin.  


With the cowl section removed, we could assess the firewall and the area where the door frame meets the windshield support.


This is where the heater box mounts.  With the amount of calk they had around the edges, I'm really surprised it's not rusted too.  But it seems to have survived unscathed.


Here you can see the 1-2" section of the door/windshield area that is cancerous.  I expected worse and this should be a fairly straight forward fix.  You can also see the pinch weld portion of the firewall is very cancerous.  A four inch wide section from cowl to floor will be replaced.


Another angle of the pinch weld damage.


After assessing the damage, we started rebuilding the heater core section by making templates out of card stock.  We then transferred those shapes on to some scrap metal I got from my dad (which just so happens to be red) and cut them out.


Here's the newly fabricated heater core area held in place by my hand model brother.  The gap you see at the right is due to the dash and heater core cowl sections being two separate pieces.  The cowl continues straight and the dash curves around.  We will weld the original curved dash piece back in after everything is attached and tested to be water tight.  What do you think of my ugly welds? Big smile


A shot from outside the car.  We don't have the tools necessary to do the curves that the original cowl did, so our replacement is quite angular.


This is just the beginning.  We need to build a stack to go around the heater core opening (at least one inch tall).  We are also considering putting a wall across there the cowl opening is.  This would have a slot in the top to allow air into the heater core area, but would prevent most water and debris from getting over there.  I'd rather have to take off the cowl and clean it every few months than have to ever fix this rust again!

Ray


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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Oct/07/2014 at 8:47pm
I got word that the title is all squared away and will be in the mail with the keys.  It was a little nerve wracking to put trust in a stranger for that long, but Andrew is a stand up guy.  I felt I could trust him since he drove from Arkansas to Missouri on his birthday with wife and kids in tow to deliver the Rambler, and turns out I was right.  

I might have found a motor too.  A guy answered my craigslist ad and said he's thinking about buying a parts car with a running 232.  He still has to work out the details, so who knows.

Did some more cutting today.  If the weather holds out I hope to have the passenger side firewall and heater core/cowl welded back in by the weekend.  We'll see.

A roughly 4 inch strip of the firewall had to come out.  It had rusted along the seams as the water from the heater core/cowl was able to sit in the corners longer.  Just to the right of this cut you can see the door/windshield support coming up and where some more rust had to be cut out.


In this shot, the cancer at the top of the support has been removed.  You can just start to see to the right of the image where another small cut had to be made.  


This last shot shows the last little cut I had to do.  The hack job at the top of the image is from when I cut out the cowl the first time.  I couldn't see how it was still being held and made these cuts in desperation.  It turned out that the inner metal here curved to follow the windshield, while the cowl continued more straight.  I didn't see the seam until after hacking at it. Angry  So always stop and look closer when something isn't coming out like you thought it would!


Ray


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Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Oct/08/2014 at 6:49pm
Started adding back metal today.  Maybe I should have waited until I ground the weld down before taking pictures.  Oh well!  It's amateur welding night tonight.




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Posted By: SnakePlissken
Date Posted: Oct/12/2014 at 1:47pm
Ray, I'll try to make the next meeting, today at 5:30 if I remember. 

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1976 Matador & 1972 Gremlin


Posted By: SnakePlissken
Date Posted: Dec/01/2014 at 11:33am
If you don't have an engines yet...........http://ksu.craigslist.org/pts/4719454695.html

I have one 70 232ci 1bbl w/80k and one with 75k, $100 ea. and a 68 short block core $50.
call me.....no text please

I'm tempted go look at this in the same area for only $950

http://topeka.craigslist.org/cto/4772473348.html






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1976 Matador & 1972 Gremlin


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Dec/01/2014 at 1:32pm
Wow, that rebel looks like it's in pretty nice shape!  Thinking of adding to the herd?  I wish I knew how to check motors out when they aren't on a car.  But for $100 a piece, I might just buy both and hope I can put together a runner from the two of them.  Maybe we can make a road trip out of it.  Big smile 

I have access to a truck (well, a Jeep anyway) and a trailer that can carry the motor(s).  I don't have anything that can carry a car, though.  Perhaps another Gateway AMC member has a dolly?

I really need to update this thread. Confused

Ray


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Posted By: Harry the hoser
Date Posted: Dec/01/2014 at 3:06pm
one way to check out a motor that is not in the car is to take a socket wrench on the crank bolt and do a compression check on it and take the pan off and mic the bearings mic the crank that will give you the basic shape the motor is in I mean if the bearing show wear HOW MUCH do you get good compression general look over all of the parts


Posted By: SnakePlissken
Date Posted: Dec/02/2014 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by RebelRay RebelRay wrote:

Wow, that rebel looks like it's in pretty nice shape!  Thinking of adding to the herd?  I wish I knew how to check motors out when they aren't on a car.  But for $100 a piece, I might just buy both and hope I can put together a runner from the two of them.  Maybe we can make a road trip out of it.  Big smile 

I have access to a truck (well, a Jeep anyway) and a trailer that can carry the motor(s).  I don't have anything that can carry a car, though.  Perhaps another Gateway AMC member has a dolly?

I really need to update this thread. Confused

Ray

If I were not buying a larger house I'd go grab the Rebel today. But I have a 3/4 ton van with a hitch and access to a car trailer, so if it's there come January maybe. The engines could fit in the trunk. and would be moderately secure if they were sitting on plywood




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1976 Matador & 1972 Gremlin


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Dec/20/2014 at 3:21pm
Well, don't need an engine anymore! Just picked it up. Getting ready to make the 6 hour trip back home. Just stopped for "lunch".





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Posted By: SnakePlissken
Date Posted: Dec/20/2014 at 3:48pm
Is that a later model one ?



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1976 Matador & 1972 Gremlin


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Dec/20/2014 at 4:14pm
It's a 1970. But still an early bell housing engine, so it should work fine. This thing looks great. I'm excited!

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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Dec/31/2014 at 8:54am
If the trans is a BW M40 (should be if 1970) you can use it with the torque tube. Just take the output housing off the M35 and bolt it on. Make sure the splines are the same first. I'm pretty sure the housings are the same length (well, the torque tube model is longer due to the TT adapter, I mean length to the seal) and bolt pattern. I've swapped them before, but for mid 60s models. May have been a change in the late 60s/early 70s, but I doubt it.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: tomslik
Date Posted: Jan/29/2015 at 8:22am
Originally posted by SEdmonds SEdmonds wrote:

The station wagons and 4 door sedans have a different windshield than other Ambos/Classics. It's 2 inches taller. Be sure you get one that fits wagons.



...or chop it 2"

I parted out a 65 770 4dr a while back, have an ac dash...etc

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67 american 290/4speed


Posted By: Ruby loye
Date Posted: Feb/15/2015 at 6:25am
Love the diamond tuck. I have a chance to get a wagon similar to my 1st car which was a 63 660 CC,
This is a 63 550 CC. Has a inline 6 and three/tree. I love the patina so much all I think I would do is reuphoster the front seast (bench) and sand her down a then clear coat her. Then drive with biggest smile you've ever seen!
 
Mark


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Feb/16/2015 at 7:42am
Just remember to retorque that six head before driving much! Hopefully it hasn't been run hot with a loose head before you get it...  63-64 Classics will have the 195.6 OHV engine.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Mar/04/2015 at 6:19pm
Farna, do you know the difference between the trans the wagon came with and the one that came with the motor?  Would it behoove me to go ahead and make the swap?  

Progress is slow because of the winter and lack of a proper work area (read: heated!)  But I have made some.  Most of the passenger firewall is welded back in with "new" metal.  I still need to finish the heater core opening.  

Because I have severe undiagnosed ADD, I started changing the front brakes over to the discs I got earlier.  By the time I had removed the decades of grease, oil, and rocks from the ball suspension, it was clear that a complete rebushing was in order.  Luckily the car came with a Prothane suspension bushing kit!  I'll also change the ball joint while I'm at it.

I'm seriously considering removing the old tired springs in favor of air bags.  I like lowered cars (I know some here are opposed) and might as well do bags while I have the springs out.  The only problem there is compressing the springs to remove the spring compression retainer used to remove them.  I'll have to give that some thought.

Unfortunately, the clutch in my sister-in-law's Jeep went out, so the wagon got put back together enough to get a push outside so we could work on the Jeep in relative comfort.

I'm determined to take this thing on a road trip this summer, so I want to get it back in the garage ASAP.  Hopefully the weather man is right and this weekend will be in the 50's.

Ray


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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Mar/04/2015 at 6:31pm
Engine and trans needs to e in to compress the springs. People have got under there with strut compressors and got them out, but it's a tough job.  I did it with the scissor type strut spring compressors, but I had the front fenders off. Don't think those will work with the fender on, not sure.

The M40 trans is a bit heavier duty than the M35, and the M-40 may have provisions for an ATF cooler to be added. That's not really a problem, the air cooled model works great for most driving. TomJ used on in CA for years, and even drove across Death Valley a couple times in the summer with no issues. He did take it easy across the valley though.

I don't like Prothane bushings for a street car, but you already have them, may as well give them a try. You'll get a little more road vibration/noise and a bit stiffer ride. The one thing I wouldn't use is the poly strut rod bushings. They simply jar the car too much. Ran them for a short time because I had to (early 60s non-adjustable strut rod modification), but modified my early strut rods to be adjustable like later types (cut them and welded back half of Concord strut rods on!) so I could run the softer stock type two piece RUBBER bushings.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Mar/04/2015 at 9:43pm
My springs are beyond worn out.  A previous owner put some spring spacers in them to help stiffen them back up.  All I had to do was remove the spacers and have my brother push down on the fender while I used a floor jack on the lower control arm to compress the spring enough to get the retainers on.  The problem is, once they're out, I can't remove the retainer!  So I need to figure out a way to compress the springs OUTSIDE of the car.  

I can think of some solutions.  My first thought is thick metal plates on each end of the springs with a hole drilled in the middle and a long threaded rod running through.  Nuts with washers would be threaded on to compress the spring until the retainers could be removed.  Perhaps with rubber on the spring side of the metal plates to reduce the chance of the spring slipping to the side.

Dunno, I'll have to give it all some thought.


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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Mar/05/2015 at 8:05am
If the engine and trans is still in the car put the spring with retainers under the car in a flat spot right behind the front wheel. Lower car on spring and remove retainers. Compress new spring the same way. If the engine and trans are out, use another car, doesn't even have to be a Rambler!! Good use for a generic car brand... Wink

Alternately, you can put the spring in a hydraulic press. You just need to make sure the press has enough range to get the spring out once the retainers have been pulled.

The important thing for both methods is that the spring seats have a good flat surface to sit on (both ends) and the surfaces are very close to parallel. I've used a piece of 2x6 under one end or both when necessary.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: WARBED
Date Posted: May/14/2015 at 9:18pm
Hey RebelRay. Love the Classic you have. Are you going to go back original or update the drivetrain. I wanted to go 4.0 on my American but it didn't even come close to fitting so I went 2.5, it's the same engine as the 4.0 but with 2 cylinders missing. Mine was also missing the entire drivetrain when I got her. Didn't even have the front suspension, so I've come along way so far. Oh I did get a new windshield with the car but found out it was for the 50-55 American. All most the same car but not. good luck with your project and keep it posted. I do have mine on the project section. Need to start making video.

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59 American 2dr S/W. 70 390 AMX. 70 232 javelin. Kelvinator fridge ice cold beer storage.


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: May/17/2015 at 10:35am
@Warbed:  The wagon is my toy.  Where the Rebel is "too good to change", the wagon has been beat up, used, abused, and had years of backyard engineering done to it.  I don't plan to restore her to 1965 show room quality.  Instead, my plans are to get her driving, maybe lower her a bit, and drive the ever loving heck out of her!  

I did end up getting another 6 cylinder to put in her and the drivetrain will remain stock.  At least for now.  She's a torque tube car, so swapping to a modern drive train means re-engineering the rear end.  I know it can be done, but it's a bit over my head for the moment.  I don't need big power.  I like to cruise with friends.  I don't need speed.

The exterior will stay pretty much like it is.  I'd like to straighten the doors or find decent replacements.  Either way, I'll use the doors as practice at body work.  Otherwise, I love the look it has right now.  I'll just fix some rust spots and monitor the "patina" to make sure it doesn't move from "looks cool" to "cancerous".

Now for the long awaited update:

I've done a bit since the last update.  I must have severe ADD because I don't think I've actually finished any one project on her tho.  My brother is helping me with the project and yesterday we wrote up a "to do" list of things that NEED to be done to get her driving.  We also included things that made sense to do while the engine was out, like degreasing the engine bay and suspension.

We decided to start with degreasing since I had already started that project and it was easy to get to in my long-but-narrow portable garage.  This will also give us an idea of the state of things since it's hard to tell if there's rust or a blown out grease boot if everything is coated in 2 inches of grease, oil, sand, and mud.


Here's how bad it was to start.  In this pic I had already degreased much of the passenger side of the engine bay and some of the suspension.  Note how covered the steering box is!  Everything was coated like that.  I think the old motor must have had a really bad oil pan gasket or rear main seal and I think it was driven that way for a looooong time.


Along with my brother, I have constant moral support from my buddy Oz.


While the passenger side was preserved under a coat of oil and grease, the driver side was not so lucky.  I looks like sometime in the wagon's past, a battery exploded and covered that side with acid.  And it etched it's way into the paint.  There is now a good amount of surface rust on that side, the battery box is mostly gone, and subframe under the box has quite a bit of surface rust on it.


Here's the passenger side as it is now.  It still needs some minor clean up but I'm happy with the results.  The paint in here is surprisingly well preserved.


Turns out there were some bolts and a suspension under that grease!


Many of the suspension parts look new.  Even the rubber boots are in good shape.


Here you can see the surface rust on the inner fender.  I still need to clean it up to see just how bad it is.  But the cross member and the steering box are starting to have form to them!

There are more updates but my niece is begging to use the computer, so I guess I'll get back to work.  :)
Ray


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Posted By: tomslik
Date Posted: May/17/2015 at 11:08am
I've got a few pieces of 65 stuff around, including a battery tray...

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67 american 290/4speed


Posted By: WARBED
Date Posted: May/17/2015 at 4:28pm
65 is looking good RebelRay. Last time I used a pressure washer I put on my Bathing suit, a pair of goggles and didn't stop till it was sparkling. Yes my neighbors do wonder some times.  

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59 American 2dr S/W. 70 390 AMX. 70 232 javelin. Kelvinator fridge ice cold beer storage.


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: May/19/2015 at 7:48am
Don't sweat the surface rust, it's not a real problem. May have a little pitting once cleaned up. Spray it down with brake cleaner or wipe with paint thinner/mineral spirits before painting then get some paint (not just primer) to cover it and you'll be fine. I'd use an etching primer -- you can get it in spray cans from an auto paint dealer. A couple cans should do for the engine bay, maybe just one for that surface rusted area (no real need for etching primer where the original paint it intact). Get what rust you can off with a wire brush first. As long as you have good paint over it it won't rust any more -- needs oxygen to rust, seal it off (with good paint) from air and water and it won't rust any more.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Jul/24/2015 at 9:55pm
looks good Ray.


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Aug/24/2015 at 4:42pm
I'm finally getting stuff done! I'm starting a week vacation. We're swapping the wounded Chevy 350 out of my brother's jeep in favor of a 258. Then it's all about the wagon! We moved both down to his mother-in-law's yesterday. We're packing up the parts and told and then it's a week of wrenching!



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Posted By: Photon440
Date Posted: Aug/24/2015 at 4:50pm
Just catching up on the posts for this car, looks like it'll be fun.  It takes me way back, over forty years ago when I had my learner's license and practiced driving in my dad's '65 550 Cross Country.  232 and three speed column shift, with the factory dull metallic blue paint and deluxe white steering wheel. :)

Good luck with this!


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Faster is Better


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Aug/25/2015 at 7:06am


      

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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Aug/25/2015 at 10:06pm
Glad you're getting some work done! I've got parts collected for a couple projects but no darn time to get to them!! Hope I don't misplace parts before I get started... I hate buying parts I know I have around the shop... somewhere...

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Frank Swygert


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Aug/26/2015 at 12:13am
I got the new gaskets (valve cover, intake/exhaust, and oil pan) changed so the engine is prepped and ready to go in.  Before I do that, I'm going to finish up the welding I've been putting off all summer.  I hope to get all of that done tomorrow.

I know you guys do more to engines when you already have them out like this but for now it's going in as-is.  We'll see how she runs in a few days hopefully!  

I picked up a brake cylinder hone and rebuild kits for the rear brake cylinders.  I also picked up some metal brake lines and rented both a brake line bending tool and a flare tool.  So maybe I'll be able to stop after all this too!  Maybe... lol.

Ray


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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Aug/26/2015 at 11:46pm
Got the Scarebird disc brake setup I picked up from a forum member installed today. That was a heck of a battle! Didn't get to the welding yet. Tomorrow I will rebuild the back brakes and maybe start putting in the engine and trans. I have to ask a question about the torque-tube before I do that, though. I'll start a new thread for that.

Picked up air and oil filters and oil today in preparation of maybe getting to start her up!

I got to "drive" her while my brother and sister-in-law pushed so we could cut out the Chevy motor mounts in their jeep. I was going "weeeee" and "vrooooom" the whole time. Lol.




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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: SnakePlissken
Date Posted: Sep/07/2015 at 9:09am
Originally posted by RebelRay RebelRay wrote:



      

I saw you going down new highway 21. 


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1976 Matador & 1972 Gremlin


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/11/2015 at 7:42pm
Ha!  That's cool Snake.  Hopefully the next time she sees 21 it will be under her own power!  My brother road with my dad in the truck while I followed in the Jeep.  He said they were getting thumbs ups the whole way down.  Cool

Let me bring you guys up to speed.  The last 2 weeks have been a roller coaster ride of highs and lows when it comes to the wagon.  After prepping the motor and trans to go into the car, we discovered the rubber "trunnion" that acts as a guide and cushion for the torque tube was completely disintegrated.  



I thought for sure I was screwed.  Who makes rubber trunnions for 65 Rambler torque tubes, right?  Turns out there are two sources!  WOW!  Thanks to the incredible expertise on this forum (thanks, guys!), I discovered both Blaser's and Galvin's stock this item.  I don't know if there's a difference.  Galvin's wants $200 and Blaser's wants $275.  I don't know if they are the same or not.  I ended up picking one up from a forum member who had a spare.

My brother and I removed the rear end and torque tube from the car because we thought about making our own trunnion.  Now that I knew I could get one, the rear end had to go back in.


Has anyone seen the Motor Trend series "Roadkill"?  Safety first!


The pan-hard bar to chassis bolt was being ornery.  A little PB Blaster (love that stuff!), a breaker bar, and a 2 ton hydraulic jack got it moving though.  We had to use this method for the entire length of the bolt.  Needless to say, that bolts not going back on!  Again, safety first.


With the panhard bar removed, the rear end could be rolled out.

With the rear end out, I rebuilt the back brakes and removed the metric ton of grease, sand, and small pebbles that were coating the torque tube and axle.  Then it went back into the car to await the trunnion.  

My brother needed the engine stand so he could prep his Jeep's engine for installation.  So we installed the engine and transmission into the wagon just so we could get them out of the way.  We also bolted the torque tube to the transmission so that when we pushed the car around, the rear end wasn't constantly trying to fall off it's springs!

The engine couldn't stay in it's current configuration, though.  The headers were hitting the throttle linkage and were obstructing the path for the transmission shift linkage.  Booger.



Because the header comes out around the starter, it's in direct conflict with the shift and throttle linkages.  The headers have to go!

As much as I would have loved to keep the headers, they just weren't going to work without heavy modification.  I may revisit them in the future, but for now, a regular manifold will have to do.  It was nice to see what the car looks like with the weight of the engine.


Still sits a bit high in the front.  I'm not sure why.  I figured it would be quite low since they had spring spacers (that I removed).  I figured that meant the springs were sagging a lot.

Since the headers weren't going to work, off they came!  "No problem", I thought, "The car came with an intake and exhaust manifold, I'll just install the manifold."  Oh, except it's a single barrel manifold and doesn't fit the larger opening of the 2 barrel intake.  On top of that, they cut off the 2 mounting holes in the front of the intake so it would clear the headers.  FML.  

At this point, I'm thinking I'm going to have to go to a 1bbl carb for now.  Not the end of the world, but certainly not ideal.  At this point, we packed up of the evening.  Rog needed the engine mount that bolts to the frame for the Jeep, which meant a trip to Speedway Auto Salvage in Illinois about an hour an a half from the garage we were at.  At least that took me past my house in St. Louis.  I could sleep in my bed for the night and pick up some parts I forgot there.

After returning from Speedway, we headed back to my house to spend the night.  While looking through my dining room closet for various parts -- what, you don't keep your spare parts in your dining room closet? -- I came across another 2 barrel manifold I had bought to put on the Rebel.  I didn't end up using it since I've decided the Rebel is just too much of a survivor to mess with.  

This manifold is different than the stock 2 barrel that was on the wagon.  This one started life as a single barrel and someone cut off the one barrel plate and welded on a two barrel instead.  With nice welds, I might add! Which meant that this manifold would bolt up to the single barrel exhaust manifold.  Huzzah!

I'm afraid I stopped taking pictures at that point.  There's more that happened, but if I don't finish this post, I think I'll lose it!


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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: WARBED
Date Posted: Sep/11/2015 at 8:05pm
You guys got more done in a day then I get done in a month. I thought I'd never say this but yea I'm getting to old for this, or just to beat up. Cool project.

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59 American 2dr S/W. 70 390 AMX. 70 232 javelin. Kelvinator fridge ice cold beer storage.


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Sep/11/2015 at 8:12pm
Ha! Thanks, Warbed.  I've seen your work and it's orders of magnitude better than mine!  So I can understand why it might take a little longer!  This was all over the span of a week and we still have a lot to do.  I sure wish I had a garage/concrete pad like this at home!  I think I'd already have her back on the road!

Thanks for the kind words!

Ray


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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/09/2015 at 6:47am
Next time take the tires off the rear end and roll it out with the floor jack. Don't have to jack the rear end up nearly as high, like nearly two feet lower!! That high lift bumper jack sure does come in handy though. I typically jack up by center of rear axle, take everything loose, take tires off, lower axle on floor jack, then jack up body until springs come out. Roll axle out from under car on jack. Go back in in reverse. Not having to jack the rear of the car four feet in the air helps.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Nov/10/2015 at 10:32am
Yeah, I'm not sure where our heads were that day.  It was quite an experience though.  I'm working on fabbing up a throttle cable/gas pedal now.  The old carb was the 1 bbl with solid linkage.  The new intake is a 2bbl that puts the carb sideways (not really happy about that) and the carb is designed for a throttle cable.  

The positioning of the carb puts the cable coming out over the valve cover.  The only cable I had on hand was only a couple feet long and there was no way it would make that turn without binding.  So I'm going to order a longer one and try to come up with a good mounting option.

I'm not sure if the float bowl being on the side like that will cause any problems for me.  I don't plan to autocross with it, so I think I'll be fine.


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Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Nov/10/2015 at 12:02pm
Oh! And I should mention that we fired it up!  She runs!  Next up, after figuring out the throttle, is to test out the trans.  I don't even know if it's any good yet.  I need to get a linkage for the auto trans as well.  It wasn't included in the parts with the car. Cry

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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/12/2015 at 8:07am
You should have a M-37 trans in the 66, or maybe an M-35. Either should have a TV cable. You MUST run the cable! Serves to regulate internal pressure as well as a kick-down (bottoming cable out activates kick-down under a certain speed when in third gear). The cable pushes IN as the throttle is opened. It's should move freely when pinched between thumb and a finger. If it takes more than that pinch to hold and move it the cable needs to come off. Coil and soak in a can/bucket with acetone and ATF (50/50) at least over night. The plastic casing may come off. Pull out and move it, and if not free after moving a bit soak some more. Once it's moving wipe it off, clean the plastic off if necessary, then coil and soak in plain ATF, maybe mixed with some motor oil. That will lube it up good. If the plastic case is gone you can spray it with penetrating oil or silicone once or twice a year and keep it free. The plastic helps keep moisture out, but any that gets in is held in, and you can't lube it easily.

Making a linkage isn't too hard. The cable should be all the way out (it's spring loaded in the trans to be out) with the carb at idle -- make sure fast-idle isn't on. It should be all the way in at WOT. The cable was originally on the throttle rod between the firewall and carb. It won't be long enough to reach around to the carb.  You will either need to rig a rod from the carb extending back, or an extension for the cable. You could use a bellcrank assembly mounted to the intake with the trans cable on it, then use a short cable to connect the other arm of the bellcrank to the carb.

For test running you can fix the cable pushed almost all the way in. That will maximize pressure in the trans. It will engage from park to drive (or reverse) a bit hard, and shifts at low throttle will be a bit hard, but you won't burn up the trans.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: TheHubble
Date Posted: Jan/13/2016 at 5:08am
Hey Ray decided to come check up on my old classic! Looks like youre doing great with her. Any updates? Im actually picking up a 2 door 65 classic tomorrow. Completely done. Ill have to send you some pictures later. Hope all is well.

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"If you don't look back every time you walk away, you didn't get the right one."


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Feb/02/2016 at 10:13pm
Hey, Andrew! Glad to hear you're getting another Rambler!  Sorry for the delay in answering.  I haven't been on much lately.  I don't have much to report on the wagon, unfortunately.  It's an hour away at my brother's garage (well, his mother-in-law's place, actually).  I need to figure out how the transmission kick-down cable works.  From what I understand, it has to be attached to the throttle in order for the car to even move.

Over the winter, I sold my Jeep and bought 2 trucks and a car-hauler trailer.  The trailer still needs work, but the plan is to use that and my big truck to bring the car back up to my place.  Now that the engine and torque tube trunnion are taken care of, I shouldn't need the garage.  That will allow me to get small things done during the week. 

The new tires for the trailer arrived last weekend, so I'll be heading to my parent's place this weekend to get those mounted and work on the wiring.  With any luck I'll be able to bring the trailer back with me and within the next couple weeks the car can come back up.






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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Feb/03/2016 at 8:22am
Ray, on the transmission....

1. You CAN move the car without the cable attached. I wouldn't drive it long like that though. The cable controls a throttle valve that increases pressure to hold the clutches and bands as throttle is increased. So at idle/low speed you don't need much clamping power and it's safe to move it around the yard. As you speed up the engine develops more power and more clamping force is needed. If clamping force isn't increased the clutches and bands slip a lot, wearing them and quickly building heat. So just don't drive it much/far, but don't worry much about a short test drive or moving it around the shop.

2. The cable pushes in as throttle is increased. When it bottoms out and you're running under a certain speed it will cause a down-shift ("passing gear").

3. What you need is someone with a 65-66 model and the TV cable trans to measure from the center of the throttle rod to the center of the attaching point of the cable. You can weld a short piece of bar to your throttle rod, or better yet get a small u-bolt (RC hobby shop?) and clamp a bar to your rod.  Once you have that length the rest is easy.


      I made a throttle rod for my 63 American with TV trans (the aluminum M-35, but works the same) from a piece of 1/4" threaded steel rod and drilled 3/8" bar stock. The rod pivoted in drilled bar stock supports bolted to the intake (the 196 intake plate made that easy!). I just drilled bar stock arms and used a nut on each side to lock them in place -- correct position and angle. Looked a little back-yard engineered (okay, it was!) but worked flawlessly and was easy to setup and adjust. I had a pair of Carter YF carbs on a home made intake plate. I just used length of clothes hanger wire to connect the carbs to the arms. Again, it just worked and was simple. I had planned on dressing it up a bit with steel tubing over the rods, but never did. The twin carb setup looked cool, but ran no better and had no more power than the stock 2V carb. My car was a daily driver, and I switched back after I burned a hole in #6 piston.  Discovered that my "identical" carbs had different number main jets in them! Didn't notice when rebuilding them, but knew #6 was running lean to burn like that, and took them apart and looked more closely. Something like .03 difference in the jet numbers!! One was apparently a high altitude carb, though I have no idea how it ended up on a South Carolina car... one that had been here a long time when I got it. It was just enough that after 5-6 months of running the piston burned through...  I got the right jet and ran it for a while longer, but switched back later once the novelty wore off...


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Feb/04/2016 at 1:29am
Thanks for the info, Farna.  I have another transmission that came with the motor.  I believe it's an m35?  It has an electrical spade clip there instead of the cable.  Any idea how that works?

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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Feb/04/2016 at 6:21am
The M-35 is air cooled with a cable. The M-36 and 37 are later models with some minor differences -- I believe one is the electric down-shift and vacuum shift modulator. Or it could be the M-4x model. On the trans data plate there will be a number after "AS" -- the last two digits are the model number.

It really doesn't matter which model of the aluminum trans you have. If it doesn't have a TV cable it has a vacuum modulator and a wire for the kick-down solenoid. The solenoid wire is connected to a simple normally open (NO) momentary switch. When the switch is closed the solenoid is activated and the trans will down-shift UNLESS the car is moving over a certain speed (usually around 60 -- controlled by the trans governor, not adjustable AFAIK). The switch can be anywhere, but from the factory there was a "paddle" on the throttle rod between firewall and carb , with the switch mounted on a little bracket beneath the paddle. You could adjust the point the paddle hit the switch. You can put a switch on the dash, on the floor under the gas pedal, etc. When you hit it the trans will downshift and stay downshifted as long as the car is accelerating or the switch is held. It might up-shift over a certain speed even with the switch held down, not sure about that (would be 70 or more...), but some had this as a safety feature to prevent over revving the motor.

The electric kick-down is a newer model trans and I'd be more inclined to use it. Should be a bit stronger tan the M-35 too, but probably not by much. The M-35 is pretty robust under normal driving conditions. TomJ used one behind a 232 he often used for camping trips in a 64 Classic wagon. Loaded down, and up California mountains (a bit slow at times!) and even drove it loaded across Death Valley. Never had any trans issues... even though it was air cooled.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Feb/28/2016 at 3:37pm
Thanks again, Frank!  I think I'll swap out the original trans for the one that came with the motor.  It has the electric kickdown wire you speak of.

There's finally been a little bit of movement on the wagon.  The property I was storing it at is owned by my brother's mother-in-law.  She'd never make me move it, but she's said some comments to my sister-in-law that made it obvious that the wagon had overstayed it's welcome.  So we ran down with "new" tow rig and trailer and picked it up.  She's now safe and sound back at home.

Loading her up!

Welcome home!




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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Feb/29/2016 at 6:22am
So it's closer at hand, and easier to find time to work on now...  Well, at least being close by helps, finding time can be a real problem, what with normal life getting in the way. Seems like every time I think I'm going to have most of a day to do something for myself  I get a phone call from someone needing something done right now. Like today... (I do home repairs, one man jobs...)


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: SnakePlissken
Date Posted: Mar/08/2016 at 8:31pm
I still have the manuals for you, but have not been to any club meets in a while; moved and busy. 

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1976 Matador & 1972 Gremlin


Posted By: RebelRay
Date Posted: Apr/18/2016 at 12:50pm
Sometimes I love living in the city, sometimes I hate it.  The forestry division has given me until monday to remove the "junk" car Angry from my yard or they will tow it and send me the bill.  It's funny, for a city that won't do bubkiss when your stuff is stolen and takes months to fix street lights and pot holes, they sure don't give you much time to take care of things they deem a problem!

*Sigh* So the wagon is going back to Rog's mother-in-law's place, an hour and a half away.  She's been very gracious in letting me bring it back.  But her grace only extends so far.  In this case, a month.  So I think you can expect to see some progress here soon.

Things I plan to do within the next month:
  • Replace the current transmission with the one I got when I bought the motor.  This is the updated transmission with the electric kick down instead of the continuously variable cable version that was there before.
  • Install the distributor and get the plugs wired up.
  • Figure out why none of the tail lights, brake lights, or blinkers work *crossing my fingers that it's just a blown fuse or missing wire to the fuse block.*
  • Change the windshield.  I have to get a gasket for it and clean what looks like 50 years worth of silicone "there I fixed it" gunk out of the channel.
  • Finish welding the passenger side floor, ignore the fact that the driver side firewall desperately needs some new metal, and also ignore the big hole where the cowl should be.
  • Reattach the passenger side fender and hood
  • Put the headlights and grill back on and hope the headlights work
  • Hope, pray, beat on some stuff, rinse, repeat.
It's going to be a long month!

Ray


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http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62739" rel="nofollow - Click here to check out my 65 Classic Wagon build thread!


Posted By: SnakePlissken
Date Posted: Apr/18/2016 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by RebelRay RebelRay wrote:

Sometimes I love living in the city, sometimes I hate it.  The forestry division has given me until monday to remove the "junk" car Angry from my yard or they will tow it and send me the bill.  It's funny, for a city that won't do bubkiss when your stuff is stolen and takes months to fix street lights and pot holes, they sure don't give you much time to take care of things they deem a problem!



I might be able to work something out with you on storage


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1976 Matador & 1972 Gremlin



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