m12 shift kit
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Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Transmission & Drivetrain
Forum Description: If it's between the engine and wheels, it goes here
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58083
Printed Date: Apr/16/2024 at 1:45pm
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Topic: m12 shift kit
Posted By: tumbleweed
Subject: m12 shift kit
Date Posted: Mar/01/2014 at 8:31am
| anyone know where to get a shift kit for m 12 ? |
Replies:
Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Mar/01/2014 at 11:28am
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No one makes one.The best you will be able to do is to shim the pressure regulator valve to add line pressure. ------------- 1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX 1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box |
Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Mar/01/2014 at 1:34pm
| Transgo did many years ago, and I suspect they stopped because there was limitations, and 1970390amx is correct |
Posted By: george w
Date Posted: Mar/01/2014 at 9:11pm
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AMC offered a shift improvement kit for M-11's and M-12's. There was a TSB on it and I'll look it up. The features of the kit were worked into production sometime in early 69 I believe. I'll look up the TSB and post it. You can also tweak the vac. modulator adjustment to some degree to increase the line pressure, raise the shift points and to firm up the shifts. The adjustment screw is inside the stem of the modulator. It's a fine adjustment so it can take several turns to notice a difference. If you crank it in too far the trans. will shift very harshly and very late or not at all if you go too far. It's easy enough to fine tune by road testing. AMC's posted line pressures in the shop manual were for typical passenger car smoothness and to get into high gear as soon as possible. To my knowledge AMC never released revised pressure specs for the performance applications. ------------- Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new. |
Posted By: tumbleweed
Date Posted: Mar/01/2014 at 9:19pm
| cool,let me know. |
Posted By: pacerman
Date Posted: Mar/01/2014 at 9:24pm
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Here's another older thread on this topic: http://theamcforum.com/forum/borgwarner-parts_topic11161_page6&SID=347323266zcfe86aac378c4dd41511373726852.html ------------- Happiness is making something out of nothing. |
Posted By: george w
Date Posted: Mar/02/2014 at 7:00am
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The TSB was dated Oct. 31, 1969. The subject was: Automatic Transmission Control Valve Design Improvement. M-11 and M-12 Shift Command Transmissions. The description stated: "A revised control valve assembly, providing higher transmission pressures was incorporated, at the following transmission serial numbers, to improve transmission durability, especially for those drivers who expect to place abnormal demands on the units." "Transmissions built earlier are entirely adequate in performance for all normal types of driving." ( Keep in mind the mind set that AMC was was coming off of at the time the AMX was introduced. "Abnormal" and "normal" are the keys words here. What's abnormal for a typical Rambler granny is very normal for a performance car buyer ) The bulletin goes on to list the various transmission partnumbers and serial numbers where the mod. went into effect. It applied to both M-11's and M-12's The "Shift kit" part number was 4488283. It increased operating pressures at the 1-2 shift point. There were three hard parts involved. Throttle modulator cutback valve, cutback valve spring and valve body end plate. Interestingly, there were no instructions or referrals ( at that time ) to make any transmission pressure setting changes. These may have come later. I don't know, someone would have to refer to the 70 to 72 shop manuals or to later TSB's as mine set of TSB's are only for the 68 through 70 model years. I did install one of these kits in a 68 343 AMX that I owned that is now owned by Ross Peterson. It did improve the 1-2 shift but it did not raise the 2-1 downshift kickdown point which was still somewhere around 20 mph. My 69 AMX with the same engine-trans. combo, which I still own, clearly has the revised transmission calibrations as the 2-1 forced kickdown speed was raised slightly ( to about 28-30 mph and both the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts are substantially firmer at any upshift speed. At full throttle my 69 will easily chirp the tires on the 1-2 shift and has a very positive and firm 2-3 shift. As a side note though there is a bit of a "clunk" when the trans. shifts back to first gear at about 5 mph on idle, closed throttle coast down. ------------- Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new. |
Posted By: 401MATCOUPE
Date Posted: Mar/02/2014 at 3:38pm
|
George...that "Factory" shift kit is awesome in the 68 AMX, I bought from you...I have had that "little" 343 engine chirp 2nd all the time under WOT...but only once in 3rd, right outside air temp, right humidity, empty gas tank, right phase of the sun/earth and moon!!! It does improve and I guess I need to talk to a Texas friend to borrow the NOS one he has and try and reproduce it...I had it in my hands and 3 pieces kit is correct. ------------- Ross K. Peterson 68X,GoPac,343,AT,52A(1stCar) 68X,GoPac,390,4sp,52A 69X,GoPac,390,4sp,64A 70X,GoPac,390,4sp,87A,8 70X,GoPac,390,4sp,BBO,8 70 Jav SST,390,AT,BSO 74MatX,401,AT,Prototype 74MatX,401,AT |
Posted By: george w
Date Posted: Mar/02/2014 at 4:19pm
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Ross, I've caught a 2-3 chirp on occasion on my 69 as well. As you said, under the right conditions. You should also get a 1-2 chirp at less than full throttle too. Did you change to stickier tires ? I still have the Michelin 70 series on the original Rally's and Coker redlines on the chrome wheels. Neither have particularly good dry traction on acceleration. There must have been other minor valve body or other internal changes though between the 68 and 69 transmissions as my 69 will kickdown or shift down into first at a higher speed than the 68 would. I don't know if this was a running change in 69 but I have to assume that all BW's had the mods in 1970 and on up. My next new AMC was the 73 Hornet X 360 which had the Torque Command Torqueflite so I don't know what advances were made between 69 to 72. The TorqueCommand had better responsiveness to kickdowns but didn't shift as firmly as the M-11's in both AMX's. Are you back from Dallas yet ? ------------- Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new. |
Posted By: txamx
Date Posted: Mar/02/2014 at 4:55pm
Ross, I will be more than happy to send you the shift kit with the hope that you can reproduce it for others. I'll get it sent your way this week. John B ------------- 
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401MATCOUPE wrote:Posted By: Javelin69
Date Posted: Mar/07/2014 at 8:50am
| I'd be interested in that kit. My amx shifts ok in drive except fairly early up shifts. In manual mode, 1-2 is right now but 2-3 takes forever. I pulled the valves and polished them and cleaned out the bores. I never was quite sure if the springs were in the right location. I also adjusted pressure as shown in the tsm. As I recall some are similar and I couldn't tell from the tsm exactly what goes where. I think this trans has been rebuilt and I wonder if a check ball was left out somewhere or if those springs are in the right spot or maybe weak. Any pointers are welcome. |
Posted By: george w
Date Posted: Mar/07/2014 at 9:42pm
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Let's assume that you reassembled the valve body correctly. If the transmission seems to upshift too early then the thing to do is to start increasing the pressure by cranking in the set screw in the vacuum modulator a few turns at a time. This does two things. First it raises the shift points and second it increases the line pressure for firmer shifts. Stop when you reach the shift points you're comfortable with. If you go too far the trans. will either shift up way late or not at all. The adjustment screw is not completely linear. It takes more turns initially to move the shift point up and as you raise the pressure further the adjustment becomes more sensitive. The 2-1 closed throttle coast down downshift point will also get raised so you'll find that it will somewhat noticeable when it occurs. ------------- Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new. |
Posted By: 69 ambassador 390
Date Posted: Mar/07/2014 at 11:06pm
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Take weight off the governor fly weight with a grinder. This will help raise the shift points also. Make sure you have the correct manual valve with the extra blocking ring on the shuttle. Thhe one from column shifted cars will eventually upshift no matter where you have the shifter but the floor shift valve will hold first and second as long as you do or the engine blows. ------------- Steve Brown Algonac, Mi. 69 Ambassador sst 390 84 Grand Wagoneer 69 Cougar XR7 65 Fairlaine 500XL 79 F-350 Super Camper Special |
Posted By: tumbleweed
Date Posted: Mar/08/2014 at 8:44am
| I want a shift kit.hopfully it gets reproduced like the str-11 put me down for one |
Posted By: Javelin69
Date Posted: Mar/08/2014 at 9:04am
| Any thoughts on the lazy 2-3 manual shift? No matter the throttle opening or road speed moving the lever from 2-D results in a shift several seconds after. Curious thing is that the kick down 2-3 shift happens as soon as the pedal is lifted. Part throttle 2-3 in drive seems ok. Actually this is more of my concern than the low shift points. |
Posted By: amc67rogue
Date Posted: Mar/08/2014 at 9:27am
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I remember a road test of the S/C 360 hornet and the test driver short shifted the 2-3 shift to allow for the delay. ------------- Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code |
Posted By: 69 ambassador 390
Date Posted: Mar/08/2014 at 10:56am
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That is normal shifting. You haven't reached the full throttle shift point yet. 1-2 is instant and 2-3 will happen when programmed because you have put It back in normal drive. If you want instant 2-3 at low rpms, you need to modify the valve body to have full manual control and no automatic options. That is NOT a shift kit function with any make of shift kit. A full manual kit is what you want. If you want to help the trans shift a little before the full throttle downshifted point, you will need to eliminate the downshift input signal to the solenoid. You can just unplug the wire at the trans or pedal or install a disable switch inline. ------------- Steve Brown Algonac, Mi. 69 Ambassador sst 390 84 Grand Wagoneer 69 Cougar XR7 65 Fairlaine 500XL 79 F-350 Super Camper Special |
Posted By: Javelin69
Date Posted: Mar/08/2014 at 1:44pm
| The lazy shift is at any road speed even over the 2-3 programmed shift and even at light throttle at that speed. |
Posted By: 69 ambassador 390
Date Posted: Mar/08/2014 at 1:55pm
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It's not lazy. You are switching from manual mode to Drive/Auto when you move the shifter to Drive. If it is late or ties up at the 2-3 shift, then you have an issue. May be an accumulator function or leaking check valve or bad seals. ------------- Steve Brown Algonac, Mi. 69 Ambassador sst 390 84 Grand Wagoneer 69 Cougar XR7 65 Fairlaine 500XL 79 F-350 Super Camper Special |
Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Mar/08/2014 at 6:04pm
| a reproduction shift kit would be well appreciated and probably popular/sell well. But you should also reproduce a band kit with modern friction material to go with it. |
Posted By: 69 ambassador 390
Date Posted: Mar/08/2014 at 7:30pm
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have the bands relined or use Ford medium case bands. You can get the bands in any material you want. ------------- Steve Brown Algonac, Mi. 69 Ambassador sst 390 84 Grand Wagoneer 69 Cougar XR7 65 Fairlaine 500XL 79 F-350 Super Camper Special |
Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: Apr/16/2017 at 4:13am
| How did I miss this thread. I have been looking for ways to improve my BW transmission for years. This is a watershed of information for me, my transmission is a merging of the original m11 from my car (69 Javelin 343) and a M11B recovered from a junkyard. I used the upgraded case and servos from the M11B with some of the other bits from the M11 (combination of damage in the 11 and corrosion in the 11B). I used the M11 valve body as I was under the impression that being from a console shift car, it would work better than the M11B valve body, which was most likely from a column shift car, seems like the latter may have been the better choice. |
Posted By: md1970jav
Date Posted: Apr/16/2017 at 5:08am
| I would take anything to improve the performance of my M11B. I,m still going to have problems with getting enough vacumm for tranny to work right due to the size of cam I chose.. I should have just had end of crank shaft drilled so I could switch trannys but to late now motor is together and running..Any suggestions on how to improve vacuum to tranny would be greatly appreciated .....THX |
Posted By: george w
Date Posted: Apr/16/2017 at 7:04am
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What are the issues you're having ? With low vacuum your shift pressure and shift points will go up. If you're finding the shifts are late and hard with this cam then you can lower the adjustment in the vac. modulator. ------------- Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new. |
Posted By: george w
Date Posted: Apr/16/2017 at 7:32am
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The valve bodies are the same between column shift and console shift cars. The difference is the selector shaft arm is reversed between column and console shifters. I would assume that you could swap out the selector shaft or possibly it can be flipped ?? BTW AMC began a shift improvement campaign in these transmissions that started somewhere in the 69 model year. I've never found what the changes were but I think they incorporated the parts that were in the shift kit. There was more to it than that though as the 2 to 1 forced kickdown speed or the 2-1 manual shift down speed was raised considerably, but still not enough to satisfy a performance oriented driver. On my 68 343 AMX that Ross now has (where I added the kit) the 2 to 1 kickdown was disabled somewhere over 10 to 15 mph. The kit did not change that. My 69 AMX with the same drive train and it clearly has the factory shift upgrades, will do a 2-1 kickdown up to about 20 mph and a manual pull down a little higher than that. With both my 68 and my 69 I raised the modulator adjustment pressure beyond the factory setting. I did not use a trans. pressure gauge, I simply tweaked and road tested until I got it where I wanted it. It's been running almost 40 years at that increased pressure and not one hint of trans. problems. The full throttle 1-2 and 2-3 shifts in "D" range are right before redline ( about 4850 rpm ) and are very positive. A characteristic of these trannys though as that even when manually upshifting 1 to 2 or 2 to 3, that unless you're at full throttle OR above the road speed and rpm, where the upshift would occur normally, the shift is delayed between when you move the lever and the trans. actually shifts. In this respect the Shift Command's don't differ from the Flash O Matic's from 67 on back. The only real difference between the SC and the FOM's was the shift quadrant designations of P R N D2 D1 L and P R N D 2 1. All operating functions were the same except for D2 and 2. D2 and 2 both start the car in second gear. D2 allows the automatic upshift to 3rd and 2 does not. Ford made the same change in their automatic transmissions at about the same time. Before they went to the standardized P R N D 2 1 arrangement they used P R N (Small white dot, D2) and (Large white dot with green center, D1 ) and L. No surprise really as the Ford FMX is essentially the same as the BW M-11, M-12's. ------------- Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new. |
Posted By: dbltrbl
Date Posted: Apr/16/2017 at 2:37pm
I think i have issue you are describing, after engine mods i installed stronger spring for the pressure regulator valve, it made the trans shift hard but now it feels like the Vac modulator is not getting enough vacuum and is trying to hold full line pressure when idling in gear. There are different Vacuum modulators available but i dont know if their difference is enough to make them work with low vac cam. I think i will try to test with different lenght modulator push rods to see if i can somehow lower the line pressure at idle. |
Posted By: george w
Date Posted: Apr/16/2017 at 4:34pm
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Did you try backing out the pressure adjusting screw in the modulator ? I'm not aware of "different" modulators available for the M-11 & M-12. You should have the "large" can modulator that's adjustable. I don't know though how much you can lower the line pressure within the range of that adjustment screw. Have you experimented at all with the adjusting screw ? The modulator has to track the engine vacuum range to get the shift points and pressures in the proper range. If your cam is that radical then maybe you should convert to a manual trans. ------------- Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new. |
Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: Apr/16/2017 at 6:11pm
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George W, any chance you could post a picture of what's in the AMC shift and/or the instructions for installing it? The 11B has a few other improvements like the 2 bolt front band servo, so perhaps I should be re-instating the original valve body. Mine would certainly benefit from firmer shifts as it's a bit of a slug on the gear changes at the moment. I have ridden in somebody else's 71 Javelin and it certainly shifted a lot harder than mine, he mentioned that it had some sort of shift kit in it but didn't have any details. I've actually been looking at the FMX shift kits, I know the valve body is different, but maybe there are still enough similarities that some of the bits would still be usable. |
Posted By: DaemonForce
Date Posted: Apr/16/2017 at 7:56pm
What does your valve body resemble? The caked and intrusive unsquare
shape that plagues every Borg Warner automatic or is it more like my
FMX I get the feeling you'll know when you see it.  Maybe it's just easier to bolt up an FMX and be done with it. 1-2 upshift is hard and strong, 2-3 upshift is soft, 3-2 downshift is fair but good, 2-1 downshift is slow and soft. Engine braking may become a usual thing with the full manual conversion. |
Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: Apr/16/2017 at 8:12pm
Yep, looks like this: |
Posted By: DaemonForce
Date Posted: Apr/16/2017 at 9:04pm
Yeah that's a BW unit. I apparently have the actual FMX. I used the TRG-FMX-3 shift kit on this transmission, bored out the drums/hubs, added some Alto frictions and ground off part of a valve piston. Good stuff.    I still need to find a good pan and dipstick tube to replace this set because they're both junk.  |
Posted By: dbltrbl
Date Posted: Apr/17/2017 at 2:44am
I did adjust the modulator, when i loosen the screw it makes trans to shift softer when engine is actually creating good vacuum (when driving from 1200 rpm up) but when in idle ~1000rpm the rpm's fall to about 500 in gear and car is trying to pull hard. I have tuned engine with vac gauge and it seems carb/timing does not make it any better. Main reason in my case is ofcourse the wrong combination of parts i have, the cam is crane HR-232 which in my opinion really needs smaller converter than the original 13"(?). Im using FMX modulator, those are available with several different vacuum ratings but i havent found a clear explanation of which color stripe on modulator means which rating. WesternRed: try to replace/shim the pressure spring in valve body on yours, you will note the difference in shifting, i think with your cam (HR224?) you may be still OK with idle vacuum. |
Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: Apr/17/2017 at 3:02am
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Yep, I have plenty of vacuum at idle with mine. One of my options that I'm considering is to step up the cam though. How much do you think the pressure regulator spring should be shimmed? I am going to have a look at the 11B valve body to see if it's serviceable. I need to do another oil change anyway. Need to find just over a tenth somewhere. |
Posted By: dbltrbl
Date Posted: Apr/17/2017 at 3:24am
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I used scientifical method just by testing with fingers and selected a bit stronger one, i was also considering to weld a nut on the spring holder so i could use bolt/washer for pressure adjustment. I may try that next time if different modulator/pin selection doesnt help. When i had engine out for flexplate repairs last year i had long talk with Peter at Continental converters, i was about to order 10" unit from them but delivery time was too long, i needed to get the car out from garage. I think i will order one eventually. |
Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: Apr/18/2017 at 12:17am
Spare 11B valve body deconstruction:    Now what? This one has had some water in it and has some corrosion damage so I don't think it would be a good idea to try to run it in the car. |
Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: Apr/18/2017 at 6:29am
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Well, let's press on, pulled the M11 valve body out of the car, I'm assuming it predated the "AMC shift kit". The only discernable difference I could find between the 11 and 11B valve bodies was a couple of the springs, all of the hard parts appeared to be the same. The 11B has a longer throttle modulator valve spring and a heavier but shorter inner 2-3 shift valve spring. 11B springs are shown on the right against the corresponding 11 components.  The 11B (right) also has a slightly longer outer primary regulator spring and slightly shorter inner primary regulator spring.  The main valve body end plate is also slightly different as mentioned for the shift kit, although I have no idea what purpose this serves. So I have recalibrated my 11 valve body with the 11B springs as shown and after I pick up a new pan gasket I will be able to finish the assembly and see if I have improved things or gone backwards, assuming it works at all. |
Posted By: DaemonForce
Date Posted: Apr/19/2017 at 4:10am
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That actually looks relatively simple compared to the FMX. I see an out of place kickdown valve, throttle boost valve, lengthy compensator cutback valve, I don't see a transition valve, 2-1 scheduler or throttle body valve, showing its extreme age. Should be fine assuming you don't bind it up and create a stuck valve situation sealing it up or something. Unfortunately I don't see a way to convert this to full manual, so it's probably going to remain a slug. Still better than nothing. |
Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: Apr/19/2017 at 10:18am
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Well the outcome of the spring changes is that the 1-2 shift may be marginally firmer shifting manually but the 2-3 shift now happens at around 5000 rpm even when I have 2nd selected manually, previously I could hold 2nd to around 6000rpm or so, makes it bit tricky to do a decent burnout now. Looks like that 2-3 shift vale spring might have to come back out. No measurable improvement in 1/4 mile times tonight, but didn't go backwards in a big way either, mph seemed to be very consistent. I've only done a very short road test to make sure it was changing gears and half a dozen runs at the strip (trailered it there). Did also reconnect the kick down switch on the accelerator pedal, but not sure if this does anything other than effect the kick down when required. Components for reference Daemonforce: 
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Posted By: DaemonForce
Date Posted: Apr/19/2017 at 1:17pm
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Hey this looks good. Yeah I would reuse the original 2-3 shift valve. It doesn't look like you can interchange with the other one and any modification there would require grinding off the end and relocating its correct position with a hard spring that you don't have. It's an early creation so there might be another way to do this. I would try shimming the 2-3 shift valve if possible. The pressure might need to be increased too. Do you have any harder springs for that pressure regulator valve? |
Posted By: dbltrbl
Date Posted: Apr/19/2017 at 1:26pm
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WesternRed I think You have done more than anyone for M-series trans for a long time, atleast i havent found anything written anywhere. I know it takes time and draining the fluid isn't the funniest job but while you are working with it maybe you could try to change springs towards more firm shifts, like the factory did but more radical changes. This document on previous M12 topic mentions about shift rpm changes and also about rising the line pressure with spring. http://theamcforum.com/forum/borg-warner-m12-for-performance_topic41345_page3.html By just changing this spring you can get hard shifts but keeping line pressure up all the time does not sound effective. |
Posted By: DaemonForce
Date Posted: Apr/19/2017 at 7:00pm
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I've been referring to that page during my FMX rebuild along with a blog about overhauling the Studebaker Flightomatic and a Javelin Project page going over the transmission. These transmissions are all very similar but the FMX is a little more optioned. It looks like I lucked out with shift kit options and doing similar drum/hub boring mods that B&M Automotive tried on the BW11. NOBODY at B&M Racing even knows any of the names in that article anymore but Hot Rod Magazine's Bud Lang is still a common drop. Can't get access to the full article either. I guess it makes sense to tread into unknown waters and try our own luck at modifying these things. So far the drum/hub boring has proven quite effective but I still wonder about that longer vacuum modulator pin. |
Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: Apr/19/2017 at 7:23pm
From the Hot Rod article, it looks like they used a fairly hefty pressure regulator spring, but moat of the changes are effectively trade secrets: There is some scope to use different thickness steels in the clutch packs and that might be another path to adding an extra friction disc. Doing things by trial and error is hard work when you haven't got much to go on. |
Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Apr/19/2017 at 7:30pm
| One thing about the fords. the kick down is just that. just about all the others use the levers for line pressure control, as well as kick down...... |
Posted By: george w
Date Posted: Apr/19/2017 at 7:36pm
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The automatic upshift to third gear, even when the lever is in "2" was a built in characteristic of these trannys. The upshift was set to occur somewhere around 5000 rpm. There was a TSB that referenced this. I'll try to find it. ------------- Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new. |
Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: Apr/19/2017 at 10:00pm
| Yes, it's interesting that mine used to be able to hold 2nd beyond that before I changed the springs unless it has something to do with the kickdown being re-connected. |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/20/2017 at 7:22am
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FWIW, the Ford FMX is more similar to the BW M-8, as that's what it was patterned after and Ford/BW had manufacturing agreements for. The FMX is a culmination of the first Ford built/licensed BW trans, the FM, and the second one, the FX (Ford-O-Matic then Cruise-O-Matic, I believe is what Ford called them)-- hence "FMX" as it's the best features of the two earlier models. The BW M-11 and 12 are totally different from the earlier models. ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: akimmet
Date Posted: Apr/20/2017 at 9:43am
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While this is off topic, I have some info on the Ford Borg Warner transmissions. Cruise-O-Matic referred to all 3 speed automatic transmissions. Ford-O-Matic referred to the very early 3 speeds and all of the 2 speeds. Ford even called their own C4 and C6 transmissions Cruise-O-Matics as well. This still causes a large amount of confusion to Ford guys. Until 1967, Ford 3 speed transmissions used the perplexing green dot shift pattern. Ford had three case sizes for their Borg-Warner designed iron cased transmissions. Short (early Ford-O-Matic & FX), medium (MX), and long (LX). The longer the case, the more load it could handle. In the late 60's Ford partially re-designed the short case. Since the new short case could now handle as much load as the old medium case, Ford called this version the FMX. |
Posted By: blaine H
Date Posted: Apr/20/2017 at 4:38pm
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I believe that disconnection of the kickdown switch enables the transmission to go well beyond the 5000 rpm limit in second gear. I've bracket raced my m11b in the SC/360 for many years and that's what I've done. Plug pulled out in the tranny. I usually shift at the 5300 mark but have gone to 5500 (without any improvement in et). blaine H. ------------- NHRA Div 1 Bracket Finals - 2000, 01, 02 and 07. I may be slow but I go first! |
Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Apr/20/2017 at 5:21pm
| If you shift manually and leave the shifter in 2nd the stock M11 and M12 will hold 2nd gear at WOT until 5800 RPM and then upshift automatically to 3rd to protect the engine. It should do that whether the kickdown solenoid is connected or not. |
Posted By: DaemonForce
Date Posted: Apr/20/2017 at 6:02pm
This level of frustration and confusion found my inbox for a solid month between Cobra Transmission, various local to remote transmission shops that could barely identify my transmission, all the way up to NatPro, TranStar and TransGo. Half the problem was misidentification, the other problem was me ordering the right thing but being constantly sent the wrong parts. There are some real stupid people handling orders in these specialty shops and coming from a guy that modifies things as I see fit, that's saying a lot. I've heard everything from Fordomatic, BW-35, Mile-o-matic, Mercomatic, C-4(which may actually be the tail extension housing now that I look at a diagram of these side by side), BW-11, an extremely rare 1967 Ford MX according to Mark at TransGo, FMX according to every Ford guy and some nameless cast iron small case Cruiseomatic according to every parts shop that is convinced this must have come from some early 70's Jaguar.  Just like the Torqueflite series it shifts in the same pattern and has many names with the WORST durability when using stock replacement parts. If you want this thing to last you need to modify it some, pump the gas. It's been 50 years and there's been a lot of aftermarket support made for these, I've been told they usually swap pieces from the C4 and AOD-E. |
Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: Apr/21/2017 at 2:20am
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Just reading the 71 TSM and there is no mention of forced upshifts, just says that if you select 2nd it will stay there until you upshift, but will automatically downshift to 1st as dictated bye road speed. I'm sure I read somewhere that the column shift cars had the forced upshift from 2nd to 3rd and the console shift cars did not, but I have no idea where that came from. |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/21/2017 at 5:46am
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The console shift cars used a different valve body than the column shift, at least the BW M-8s did. That's why the name changed to "Shift-Command" for the console shift cars -- they could be manually shifted through the gears. I think even they have a forced upshift to 3rd though, but it's at a higher rpm. Prevents engine/trans damage from over revving. Might not be in the Shift-Command models though... don't have a TSM handy. Akimmet -- thanks for that info on Ford trannys. I wasn't aware there was an LX long case model, probably used more in trucks. ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: 69 ambassador 390
Date Posted: Apr/21/2017 at 9:12am
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Thats correct. The console cars used a different manual valve spool. ------------- Steve Brown Algonac, Mi. 69 Ambassador sst 390 84 Grand Wagoneer 69 Cougar XR7 65 Fairlaine 500XL 79 F-350 Super Camper Special |