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327 Cam -- "Performance"

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Category: The Garage
Forum Name: AMC V8 Engine Repair and Modifications
Forum Description: AMC-made V8 engine mechanical, ignition and fuel from basic repair to high-perf modifications
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50353
Printed Date: Mar/29/2024 at 1:24am
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Topic: 327 Cam -- "Performance"
Posted By: Rebel 327
Subject: 327 Cam -- "Performance"
Date Posted: May/20/2013 at 8:43pm
Here is the stock cam specs and the Isky Rev Master cam spec's.  Someone asked me for them and I cannot recall who.  The Isky is a solid lifter version.

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Rebel 327 4-speed



Replies:
Posted By: mramc
Date Posted: May/21/2013 at 5:33pm
Still a relatively mild  260 degree cam unless you compare to the stock 244 degree cam which is just pathetic . LRDaum 

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LRDaum


Posted By: Rebel 327
Date Posted: May/21/2013 at 5:41pm
---yes the cam is "mild" by 401 standards.  This is for a 327.  With solid lifters it can rev a little more and there is more lift.  How many of these still exist?  I have NOS.

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Rebel 327 4-speed


Posted By: Pat D
Date Posted: May/21/2013 at 7:36pm
What are the specs on the stock '57 Rebel 327/solid lifter motor? Compared to the 244 or the Isky noted above?

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Pat D
67 American 220 2 dr. sedan
70 AMX 390
Joppa, MD


Posted By: Rebel 327
Date Posted: May/21/2013 at 8:26pm
I have no records that show any other factory cam than stock from 58 to 68. I do not have the book on the 57 Rebel which may show something else.  The mechanical and hydraulic lifter engines used the same spec's according to the 58 Service Manual. This is the same basic spec as the 6 cyl. engines and they shared the same valve size as the 290/304 engines.

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Rebel 327 4-speed


Posted By: amc67rogue
Date Posted: May/21/2013 at 8:44pm
The factory 290-390 cam is 266 DEG. & with the 1.5 rockers would have .398 valve lift , a smidge  bigger than that Isky , however the Isky may have a faster opening.

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Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code


Posted By: Rebel 327
Date Posted: May/22/2013 at 9:58pm
"....1.5 rockers would have .398 valve lift..."
Did you mean lobe lift multiplied by 1.5?  The Isky cam has .410 Valve Lift.


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Rebel 327 4-speed


Posted By: amc67rogue
Date Posted: May/23/2013 at 9:17am
Yes , lobe lift multiplied by 1.5 . The Isky is .410 at the valve minus the  .018 valve lash = .392 . What is the Isky at .050 ? , they didn't use those figures back in that time frame .

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Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code


Posted By: MarlinSteve
Date Posted: May/23/2013 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by amc67rogue amc67rogue wrote:

Yes , lobe lift multiplied by 1.5 . The Isky is .410 at the valve minus the  .018 valve lash = .392 . What is the Isky at .050 ? , they didn't use those figures back in that time frame .

I was under the impression that the .018 valve lash was for heat expansion so I'm thinking that it would be closer to the .410 lift when the engine is hot.

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Posted By: Rebel 327
Date Posted: May/23/2013 at 1:17pm
The cam card says it all.  It is what it is.

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Rebel 327 4-speed


Posted By: elkyman70
Date Posted: Mar/14/2014 at 8:37pm
Are the rocker arms for the '66 327's 1.5? Am planning a regrind and have 3 different specs but one of them uses a 1.6 rocker arm ratio. Just want to try to compare apples to apples.


Posted By: uncljohn
Date Posted: Mar/14/2014 at 9:50pm
Isky customer or tech support I have always found helpful when needed.  Isky used to list Cam # 1301 for Rambler V8's 287-327  ( 1957-1966)  under a heading of Oldies but Goodies. Call for further information. But no spec's in the catalog.



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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam


Posted By: jcisworthy
Date Posted: Mar/15/2014 at 3:32am
The valve lash will change a couple thou with heat but the lift stays the same. Net lift that is, gross lift less lash. 
The lash on a solid cam is to soften up the "hit" on the valvetrain when it engages the ramps of the cam lobe.  


Posted By: uncljohn
Date Posted: Mar/15/2014 at 7:54am
Originally posted by MarlinSteve MarlinSteve wrote:

Originally posted by amc67rogue amc67rogue wrote:

Yes , lobe lift multiplied by 1.5 . The Isky is .410 at the valve minus the  .018 valve lash = .392 . What is the Isky at .050 ? , they didn't use those figures back in that time frame .

I was under the impression that the .018 valve lash was for heat expansion so I'm thinking that it would be closer to the .410 lift when the engine is hot.


Hydraulic lifters, a part that had been first used on the V16 Cadillac in 1930 were placed into use to solve two problems associated with mechanical or solid lifters which were standard for the day. Noise due to the lifter lash needed to compensate for heat expansion and frequent adjustment intervals thus maintenance costs, sometimes difficult.
The down side of them is that hydraulic lifters can not follow exotic cam shafts at high rpm and a phenomenon known as valve float sets in, they open but never close causing problems when the pistons run into them.
So pretty much in the 50's and 60's a performance engine ran solid lifters and even in the 90's and newer, the size of a hydraulic lifter negated the installation on over head cam engines. My late model Mitsubishi was almost 300,000 miles over due for it's 1st valve lash adjustment due to it's solid lifters and overhead cam shaft configuration.  Required to be adjusted every 10,000 miles.
I had a tendency to to set them a couple of thousands bigger and listen to them rattle a bit and go as far as I could before having to re-adjust them due to wear and what ever.


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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam


Posted By: Boris Badanov
Date Posted: Mar/15/2014 at 8:02am
Funny you say that, but if Ed is still on the green side of the grass
my bet is that they still carry some old and obsolete stuff.
Last I heard Ed is still on the air budget...
AMC gen 1 v8's were very common at one time in boats and Jeeps also.
If anyone had old cams, or will do a first rate re-grind, it's Ed.
 
 
Boris Badanov
 


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Gremlin Dreams


Posted By: 814Kustoms
Date Posted: Mar/16/2014 at 10:35am
Rebel327 - I believe I was the one who asked you about the cam specs in one of my threads.  Not well versed as far as camshafts verses solid/hydraulic lifters go but would this cam you have from Isky work with hydraulic lifters?  I'm guessing from one of your previous posts that the difference would be that you'll just get a little more lift with solid lifters over the hydraulic?  I remember Lucas660 stating that he didn't go with too big of a cam as he was worried he'd snap a rocker arm.  Maybe there might be a greater chance of that happening with solid lifers?    

Originally posted by 814Kustoms 814Kustoms wrote:

Originally posted by Rebel327 Rebel327 wrote:

The four barrel set-up will gain you nothing without the exhaust and cam.  It actually slowed my 66 wagon down a little by putting a 4-bbl on it (stock engine). Not sure what you are looking for in a cam but I may post up a couple extra cams I have--one reground and one NOS solid lifter cam with rockers.  My Cam grinder told me the stock cams have very little duration and anything more here would help.
Good Luck.

I'm probably looking at a sort of mild street spec type cam.  Obviously since i'll have to have one made i'm open to any suggestions for what it should be ground to.  Looking for something for the 1500 - 5500 RPM range with a little lopey idle but somewhat daily driven.  What type of other cams do you have?  Not looking for a solid lifter just hydraulic.


Posted By: Rebel327
Date Posted: Mar/16/2014 at 1:27pm
Your cam grinder cannot give you exactly what you want if starting with a stock cam as a core.  You can only get what he has to work with.  He can change the base circle and provide more lift and perhaps change the ramp angle and so on but the lobes are where they are--cannot move them.  If you are having a billet cam made then it is wide open.  Not thinking you are heading this route.  I would just send in your core and see what they can do with it.  You should be able to get around .450" lift and 215-220 duration @ .050".  For a 287/327 that is all you will ever need based on heads,etc...  Now if you are talking off-set grind crank and overbore for 400 cubes........


Posted By: uncljohn
Date Posted: Mar/16/2014 at 3:41pm
It would seem to me that if I wanted to have a cam ground for an obsolete engine with no parts available for it that is what Cam Grinder's tech support would be for.
Cams are ground specifically for application.  One ground for solid lifters would be incompatible for use with hydraulic and visa versa.  The amount of lift available from a cam is best explained by those who actually grind them and something that might be best for a small engine might not be the best use for a larger one, just saying.  But then again,  having built one or two of each, that is why I contact tech support for data.
And as I particularly use Iskenderian them be the folks I talk to.



-------------
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam



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