Help with 1970 Javelin restore
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Topic: Help with 1970 Javelin restore
Posted By: walkergetx
Subject: Help with 1970 Javelin restore
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 3:18pm
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Restoring this with my 15 year old son. I have some basic bodywork (filler and sanding) experience and I have done a little basic mechanic work. There is very little rust on this car, so we decided to take it on. The one area of rust that must be repaired is the battery area. The rot includes the entire lower radiator support and some of the sub frame. This is going to be my first foray in automotive welding, so any suggestions that might make this easier would be great (I don't even own a welding machine yet). What parts can I get? Does anyone remake that radiator support or a patch panel? How should I attack the subframe? Thanks in advance.    
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Replies:
Posted By: jcisworthy
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 3:50pm
| I would suggest a mig welder with a gas set up. You can make templates with cardboard and transfer shapes to the metal when you get to that point. 18 gauge metal should be plenty thick enough. Adjust the welder with a test piece of the metal you are going to use so it welds with a good bead then it is set for the car. Not very tricky pieces to make you should be able to achieve good results even with no experience just practice on scraps until you feel comfortable. Lower radiator support, cut off the flat panel that is rotten and make one piece to replace, drill or punch holes in new piece every 1- 1.5" or so and plug weld it back in place. If you really want to get particular count the number of spot welds from the factory and note the spacing when you cut it apart and you have the number of plug welds for your new patch. |
Posted By: scott
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 4:00pm
| Check out Dave's thread on his 70 Javelin rehab. He tackles very similar problems to yours. Click here: http://theamcforum.com/forum/my-70-javelin-street-car-restore_topic11725.html" rel="nofollow - http://theamcforum.com/forum/my-70-javelin-street-car-restore_topic11725.html |
Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 4:12pm
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WOW I would say you got them pictures from my site of my 70 Javelin street car! You can check with the AMC venders for the lower rad support as they where made at one time. I say where because the guy doing them passed away and I dont know if anyone picked it up. The same guy also made the batt. tray that bolts to the flat part of the inner fender well, see if you can get that too as you will need that. That is what I did for support & tray a year or 2 before he passed. Now on to the fun part of that flat part the tray bolts to & the frame. You might want to post a want add for the flat part (maybe the other parts above too?) but most are as bad as yours. My fix for both parts (frame & flat tray area) was to make them from flat sheet metal (batt tray area) and thicker flat stock for the frame. The frame I used the other side to make patters from and used the bottom to bend the bottom part. Kind of like a press, clamped 1 end and worked the metal to the other following the shape. The tray area I made a pattern of what I wanted to replace then transferred it to sheet metal. To bend it I used the edge of a hospital bed table, makes for a great work bench next to the car, has wheels and goes up & down so tools etc are at the right height. The edges are not that square but you bend a little, move it ¼” bend , move, etc working it a little at a time till you have the right bends. A fench post may also work as that looks like the right dia. But I did not have any around. Check out my pictures so you can see how I did it as I think it will help a lot. Sorry they are not in any order so look thru them and if you have any questions ask. http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/70-Javelin-Mark-Donohue" rel="nofollow - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/70-Javelin-Mark-Donohue Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 4:19pm
 Dave --- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: wantajav
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 4:23pm
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I suggest : Battery box (use flat piece of metal), radiator support (hopefully buy one on here from a member) cut out the rust, grind the edges of the cut panel bond adhesive/gun - check amazon get gun/panel bond/nozzles all for $82. Way cheaper than a welding set up. These aren't structural areas will turn out better than non-gas amateur MIG attempts. On to the next task! Mike
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Posted By: emspaul
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 5:15pm
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mig welding is one of the easiest things to learn, just take your time and make rolls of dimes when you start welding. Play with some scrap pieces and listen for that crackling sound this you will get by adjusting the heat and feed rate of the wire.
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Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 5:43pm
Could check CL or ebay for a used 110v welder and if you can get it with gas do so as it makes the welds that much better.
New, check Sams club, Costco or Lowes, Home depto even Eastwood sells them. Also get a auto dark helmet.
I look at getting a welder that it will pay for it's self. If you had to pay to have this done what do you think it would be $$$. You also have it for other projects and you learn a new skill.
Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
wantajav wrote:Posted By: Ant
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 6:22pm
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Where are you located? Maybe a forum member would help out where needed. ------------- 73 AMX project 401 stroker, t-56 mag Full-time machinist |
Posted By: wantajav
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 6:25pm
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Actually - Dave has a different viewpoint but I agree with all his points. PLUS father-son project great for the learning (I learned stick welding when dear Papa decided to make all our railings around the house from bar stock/steel channel. Not much fun working under his iron hand (pun alert) I must say, but I could chip sl*g off a weld with the best of them! by the conclusion of that project) only thing about a 110V Craigslist special is: low duty cycle probably doesn't work perfectly you won't know if it is you or the machine frustration reduced fun factor for the project If you must go MIG, I say get a new one even a Horrible Fright model with a top quality wire not their dental floss wire. Thing is: panel bonding is much more than "gluing" which sounds like making a birdhouse -clean /prepped adhesive areas -use set screws to squeeze the bond to the correct thickness, IIRC around 20 microns which are the diameter of small beads in the glue, this ensures the proper bond strength. -you do the first two things listed above, and a proper panel bond is far stronger and more durable than MIG esp non-gas MIG. Which is why OEM's have gone to it.If Javvy's were still being made in 2013 I guarantee you AMC would be bonding those huge roof panels not spot weld/lead/chewing gum The $500-1000 bucks you'll have in a gas MIG set up/wire/helmet/gloves can be used for other parts of the build. Panel bond : 1,000,000 wrecked BMW's and minivans can't be wrong! Mike
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Posted By: walkergetx
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 6:37pm
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We are on the south side of Houston, Tx
I have been thinking of buying a welder, but am pretty clueless. I am thinking a Miller 140 or similar would be the right size, but I am afraid of dropping almost a grand on something than will not get used much. I also have no idea where to get the gas bottle from or where to get it filled. I suppose I could find a welding shop somewhere, but this all sounds like I'm getting over my head and fast.
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Posted By: RedX
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 6:50pm
I've got a Eastwood MIG 135 welder and really like it. Runs on 110, so you can use it anywhere. It's available with a kit that includes a cart and an auto-darkening helmet which I recommend. Very easy to weld with and includes a guide to set up the welder for the metal thickness. My grandmother could weld with it. I was a little surprised at the cost of the gas but wouldn't want to go without it. Will run around $450 plus shipping and the gas. eastwood.com or 800-345-1178 for a catalog. You need this catalog as they have everything you might need for restoring an old car body 
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Posted By: walkergetx
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 9:39pm
| I get the Eastwood catalog. I imagine their mig is made by one of the big three. I've just been told Miller, Lincoln or Hobart and no others. I might try it. That sounds like my kind of investment. I did like the Miller Autoset, but I can do a lot of learning for $500. Thanks. |
Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 10:09pm
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Wantajav has a point on going new over used but if you know someone that has one that can help you check out the used one before you buy will help. All 110v will be light duty cly. But is more than enough for anything needed for a home garage. I do have to say I bought 2 Lincolns new, first was stolen that I bought @ HD, 2nd one was bought @ local welding store where I buy all my supplies. Lincoln 135 welder
 Speed Glass helmet
Is this your picture or mine.......Oh it mine ;)
 This Eastwood kit looks like a pretty good deal http://www.eastwood.com/mig-135-welder-cart-helmet-kit.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.eastwood.com/mig-135-welder-cart-helmet-kit.html
Even us old times get in a little over or heads at times. We just step back for a bit, can be a long bit, ask others how they may go about getting the job done and take all that information and use what will work best for you.
Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: Teamamc
Date Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 10:11pm
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I can cut the frame part from the parts car I have and I beleive I have a used lower rad support here as well. . ------------- 
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Posted By: brownspirit
Date Posted: Apr/30/2013 at 11:34am
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As a side note, after having a welder in the garage for a while you will wonder how you lived without one. They are so useful, honestly if your rebuilding any old car they are invaluable tools. In a car craft magazine a while back they claimed there is 3 categories all car guys fall into, one is guys without welders, guys with welders, and guys with welders that know how to use them... its true. Good luck, Andy ------------- 69' BBB AMX 390/4-speed 69' s/crambler project 69’ International F210d Cummins/5+4 |
Posted By: PlazinJavelin
Date Posted: Apr/30/2013 at 4:59pm
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Welcome to the battery tray/radiator support club. That's a good bit of work ahead of you but do-able. I started out a complete mig welding newbie and now making my own parts. Here's what the same part of my car looks like atm. And a picture of the crossmember I just finished. If you can't find a replacement crossmember, maybe I can help you figure out how to make your own.
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Posted By: javjav
Date Posted: Jun/08/2013 at 1:57am
| If you need any sheetmetal or frame pieces, let me know. We are chopping up a 1974 and will have a small pile of usable pieces. |
Posted By: amxjavelin
Date Posted: Jun/16/2013 at 10:36pm
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I have a mig welder Hobart 140 - $459 and gas holding tank - $279 perfict size for what you have here. 110 volt. welds up to 5/16" thick steel I also have body parts for the 70. Battery inner fender panel. frame rail. and lower rad. support. |