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Carb spacer...

Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: AMC V8 Engine Repair and Modifications
Forum Description: AMC-made V8 engine mechanical, ignition and fuel from basic repair to high-perf modifications
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48741
Printed Date: Mar/29/2024 at 1:07am
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Topic: Carb spacer...
Posted By: GreggR
Subject: Carb spacer...
Date Posted: Mar/26/2013 at 2:32pm
I notice that carb spacers are available as both 4-hole (or 2-hole for a 2V) and open designs.

Anyone have a preference?

Is there a technical advantage either way?

Did a search, but didn't find this question addressed...

Thanks


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No matter where you go, there you are... Buckaroo Banzai.'75 Hornet Hatchback



Replies:
Posted By: whizkidder
Date Posted: Mar/26/2013 at 2:36pm
I'm no expert, but I'd match the spacer to the manifold.

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Ron Frost
marne1ancient @ gmail.com
910 nine two two 0563

"There is no limit to what a man can do, so long as he does not care a straw who gets credit for it. Charles Montague


Posted By: nda racer
Date Posted: Mar/26/2013 at 4:12pm
It depends on what your combo prefers.
 
A 4hole can crutch the bottom end on a single plane manifold and a open can hep the top end on a dual plane, etc, etc.
 
I put the low rise Weiand Excellerator manifold (it was brand new and $40) on a smog mill with 2.56 gears and ran 15.2, bought a plenum devider kit for it and dropped to 14.6. Nice crutch for a bad combo.
 
 
A buddy bought a Holley System Max kit for his car and it ran best with the carb directly on the manifold, cause the kit was set up perfect from tha manufacturer. He tried a few diffent spacers and went slower. 11.2s out of a stock bore and stroke 350 N/A not too bad for a dual plane manifold.


Posted By: 6768rogues
Date Posted: Mar/26/2013 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by whizkidder whizkidder wrote:

I'm no expert, but I'd match the spacer to the manifold.


That is what I do.


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Located usually near Rochester, NY and sometimes central FL.


Posted By: tsanchez
Date Posted: Mar/26/2013 at 5:52pm
Like NDA says, it depends on the engine, signal at carb and manifold entry. Most of what a spacer does is add plenum volume. I have had many time that it caused driveability issues, especially with air valve secondary carbs.

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Posted By: Red20
Date Posted: Mar/26/2013 at 6:18pm
I use a 1", 4 hole spacer on a dual plane edelbrock performer intake on a 360 with an edelbrock 650 carb w/ mech secondaries.  I noticed an increase in torque myself.  No numbers to back it up, but my seat-o-the-pants dyno confirms it.  One thing i did was chamfer the edges of the holes on the bottom side of the phenolic insert to help with air flow and reduce de-atomization of the fuel air mixture.  I used a router and 1/8" roundover bit to do that.  Don't know how much it helps, but I can't see it hurting.


Posted By: WCKAMX390
Date Posted: Mar/26/2013 at 8:29pm
Used 1" spacer on my 390 ci, 4 spd AMX. Noticed a little better top end. Can't prove it, but felt it. Had to take spacer off because hood would not close and did not want to run hoodless...

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1970AMX, 390ci, 4spd, RamAir, 3.54posi

2002WS6TransAm, ls-1, 6spd, T-tops, 22,000mi, ALLfactorystock

2012DodgeChallenger"Yellow Jacket"SRT8, 6spd, 392Hemi, 1of1000made, 1st owner2receive YJ in Calif


Posted By: jarcher401
Date Posted: Apr/13/2013 at 12:51am
No lie, but on the engine dyno I gained 10hp and 11tq from adding a 1 inch spacer.

600cfm carb
8.5:1 
Shorty Headers
Gasket matched heads
performer intake
lunati 64501 cam


Posted By: FSJunkie
Date Posted: Apr/13/2013 at 10:05pm

Every carb I've ever seen was designed to have a gasket seal over all of the underside except the throttle bores themselves. Alot of the hollowed out spaces under a carb are designed to derive their vacuum from ports carved into the throttle bores, and not just from an open space. Plus, the rough underside of the carb will create extreme turbulance under the throttle plates and around the idle discharge ports.

Most stock intake manifolds have a closed plenum with individual intake bores, though they do eventually combine or have cross-drilled passages between them.  I am always very careful to make sure the spacer matched both the diameter of the intake manifold bores and the carburetor throttle bores to provide a streamlined path of entry. It's worked very well for me.
 
When faced with an open plenum, I would still install a closed spacer while matching the spacer bores to the throttle bores only.
 
Watch out on 327's with factory Holley 4bbls. They have two extra secondary idle discharge ports with their own holes drilled in the manifold and spacer.
 
Any spacer increases plenum volume, and has all the effects on engine performance that a larger plenum poses. Where I live, fuel percolation is the carb is paramount, so I tend to pile on at leat 3/4" of spacers. More than that and the cab is just being heated by convection. 
 
The primary way a carburetor cools itself is by the intake air flowing through it.  If your carb ever gets really hot while driving, downshifting and reving it up to increase airflow helps.  That is also why I believe in cold air intakes when the weather is above 85 degrees. Not for power, but for drivability. I've seen carbs get so hot, the accelerator pump shot vaporizes before it leaves the discharge nozzles.        ....Arizona problems.
 
 


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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin
1972 Wagoneer
1973 Ambassador
1977 Hornet
1982 Concord D/L
1984 Eagle Limited


Posted By: Mr. Ed
Date Posted: Apr/14/2013 at 9:38am
I thought the spacer was primarily to insulate the carb from the heat of the manifold. Yes, no?

Thanks!
Mr. Ed


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2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo "Gwendolyn."
1978 Concord Sport coupe "Mr. Black".
1982 Concord wagon. The Admiral. FOR SALE!
1976 Sportabout X, 304, auto, air. The Bronze Goddess



Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Apr/14/2013 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Mr. Ed Mr. Ed wrote:

I thought the spacer was primarily to insulate the carb from the heat of the manifold. Yes, no?

Thanks!
Mr. Ed
For the most part yes for heat & for tuning. But some are used for vacuumn ports (Javelins for the PCV), Others had the EGR valve mouted to them (Think some Fords).
Dave ---- 


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TSM = Technical Service Manual

75 Gremlin X v8 for sale
70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car


Posted By: Mr. Ed
Date Posted: Apr/15/2013 at 8:35am
My 2 barrel had a spacer under it. So should I get a spacer for the 4 barrel?

Thanks!
Mr. Ed


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2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo "Gwendolyn."
1978 Concord Sport coupe "Mr. Black".
1982 Concord wagon. The Admiral. FOR SALE!
1976 Sportabout X, 304, auto, air. The Bronze Goddess



Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: Apr/15/2013 at 8:54am
As questioned above, you can only use a spacer that will conform to the intakes flange, a 4v spacer will not fit a 2v intake or visa versa.

There are two sides to a spacer, both were mentioned by good information.

To put it simple, a spacer adds two benefits, as it does keep the carburetor cooler and  tunes airflow, depending on the spacers thickness and materials from what it is made.

When I had added a Offy 360 with spread bore pattern with a 650cfm Holley ( from stock 2v intake), I wanted to keep low end just as responsive as before by adding a spread bore multi plate spacer.

It was adjustable to 1"... at the time I was told I had way too much carb and the intake was useless for my stock 304.

Having the spacer allowed such a combo to operate well without major work with tuning jets and leaning out.

I was told from a racer, rising the floor by adding a spacer will allow for over carbed / intake combination.

It is safer to under carb, but I had a good deal for the combo, I could not pass up.


Posted By: RamblinMan
Date Posted: Apr/15/2013 at 2:21pm
There is no set rule.
 
An open spacer makes for a larger plenum volume, which is *generally* advantageous for top end performance.
 
A 4-hole spacer helps build velocity, which is *generally* advantageous for bottome end torque.
 
That being said, the combo dictates the need. There is a sweet spot for every combo. Example: You have a combo that calls for an open plenum single plane manifold. The plenum volume will either be too big or too small for the combo in most cases. If it's too big it will be lazy on the bottom end due to poor velocity. A 4-hole spacer will help increase velocity and will help with the lazy bottom end. If the plenum is to small, top end power will be hampered and an open spacer will open it up.
 
In addition, your carb will usually either be a little too big (lazy bottom end) or a little too small (runs out of breath at the at the top end). A 4-hole spacer will boost the signal to the venturis to an oversized carb, improving bottom end drivability. An open spacer will not usually have much effect on a too-small carb have more top end because the carb venturis are the choke point and nothing will make them bigger. What an open spacer WILL do in that situation will allow cross-signal to the venturis that will have a very small effect, usuually increasing the top end by a little, but it is usually not more than a couple of hundred RMPS.
 
Then theres the height of the spacer. Bigger is NOT always better. a four hole spacer that is 2" is not necessarily better that the same spacer in a 1" variety or even a 1/2" variety.
 
They ONLY practical way to tune with spacers is on the dyno. Frankly, they're cheap to buy if you are spending the money on dyno time anyway. When dynoing a new motor, I take three carbs in 100 CFM increments and 6 spacers, three 4-holes in 1/2", 1", and 2" and the same three open spacers.
 
When I dynoed my 434 SBC, I had 750 (self built), 850 (AED brand), and 950 (self built HP) Holley carbs, and all the above mentioned spacers. It made the best overall power with the 850 AED on a 4-hole spacer on the victor junior intake.
 
All of this is to say, there's a right answer for your combination, but no one here can give it to you. It's all trial and error. You can aim, and get it in the ballpark if you are a pretty experienced tuner, but the odds of the first setup being the perfect setup is highly unlikely, unless you're real lucky.
 
Bear in mind however, we are talking about variances in the <20hp realm, so don't loose a ton of sleep over your carb spacer. My current 401 is running a 950 Pro Systems carb on 1" open phenolic spacer on a Torker intake. It's purely an educated guess based on the smallish plenum of the Torker and the large carb. I'm not gonna dyno the motor, but for the street, it will be more power than the car can plant on the pavement.


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The Right Reverend of Blessed Acceleration



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