Print Page | Close Window

Front mount v.s rear calipers

Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Suspension, Steering, Brakes & Wheels
Forum Description: What makes it stop, turn, and smooths the ride
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41836
Printed Date: Mar/28/2024 at 7:48am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Front mount v.s rear calipers
Posted By: kellysguy
Subject: Front mount v.s rear calipers
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 3:13pm
If I have a front mount set and want to mount them rearward, all I have to do is swap sides, corrcet? I should have to keep the caliper part of the bracket on the same side burt flip it upside down in order to ge tthe shim orintated correctly. Are the other brackets the same just flipped sides?



Replies:
Posted By: amxdreamer
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 4:48pm
If they are designed to mount forwards why would you mount them backwards?

-------------
Tony
Vancouver, BC
1970 AMX
1972 Badassador
AMO#10333


Posted By: kellysguy
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 5:15pm
To get more weight towards the center of the car. (read, behind the front wheels).
 
Next time you pass a BMW or Lexus on the highway, notice how the front calipers are behind the axle and rears are in front of it. Manufactures do this on performance models to get as much weight (read inertia) as possible towards the center of the car for handling purposes.
 
If it can be done easily it makes more sense to do it than to not.Thumbs Up
 
I might be able to use the brake hoses I already have here too. Wink 


Posted By: tyrodtom
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 5:58pm
Most cars have the calipers mounted on the opposite side of the axle from the steering arm,  because it's pretty difficult to get to the tierod bolt if the caliper is right above it,  and there may be steering dynamic reasons for that also.
  A BMW or Porsche may have the front caliper to the rear,  but their steering racks are toward the front,  and the steering rack weighs a lot more than 2 calipers. So they're not doing it for the reason you think.
 
  I've got 4 different cars here with front disc brakes,  every one has the caliper mounted on the opposite side of the axle from the steering arm,  It may be just for package reasons,  but there may be more to it than just that.
 
  You'd be moving 10 lbs about 1 foot,  like moving a 2 gallons of milk from the front seat to the back seat,  you'll never know the difference.
 
After saying that I remembered i've actually got 5 cars here with front disc brakes,  my Hornet has the steering arm and caliper on the same side of the axle,  naturally AMC would have to be different.


-------------
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.


Posted By: kellysguy
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 6:51pm
Weight, be it a milk jug or a milk dud, mounted in front of the front wheel axis has a greater effect on push than the same amount of weight mounted the same distance behind it.
 
I do appreciate the input however; we're getting off track. That being said, the original question wasn't will it make a difference, rather; are they the same brackets just on different sides.
 
Like I stated earlier, I may be able to use the new brake hoses I already have here v.s buying new ones if I can easily mount the calipers rearward like AMC did in other applications.
 
Besides, I like the way rearward mounted calipers look v.s front.
 
So, anyone know if it's the same only different?


Posted By: toolmanxiii
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 7:26pm
yes they are the same . you just have to move your frame flex hose mounts or steel lines . flex hoses can only bend so much without damage in the long run. and the weight gain is not really worth it. but to each their own. it may gain you .0000001 % weight  to the rear wheels . But only when the front wheels are off the ground .


-------------
71 360 Hornet sst 83 2wd 360/727 Eagle wagon (crashed)


Posted By: kellysguy
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 7:31pm
Just checked, they can't be swapped at least not properly.


Posted By: kellysguy
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by toolmanxiii toolmanxiii wrote:

. it may gain you .0000001 % weight  to the rear wheels . But only when the front wheels are off the ground .
 
Not trying to shift it to the rear wheels.


Posted By: toolmanxiii
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by amxdreamer amxdreamer wrote:

If they are designed to mount forwards why would you mount them backwards?
Because Amc allows it . so why not you just have to move steel line so it mounts on the other side of the flex mount , I have done as per client wishes. they just want it that way. 


-------------
71 360 Hornet sst 83 2wd 360/727 Eagle wagon (crashed)


Posted By: mmaher94087
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 7:45pm
And I thought that rear mounted front calipers kept the front of the car from diving to the pavement in hard braking!  Never thought about the center of gravity stuff.  Mike

-------------
Mike


Posted By: toolmanxiii
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by kellysguy kellysguy wrote:

Just checked, they can't be swapped at least not properly.
yes they can move the spacers also, AMC uses A Square pastern for spindles , and any can interchange. I can put a left on a right and visa verse . so why can't you change caliper mounts from right to left. AMC was very much about adapting, 


-------------
71 360 Hornet sst 83 2wd 360/727 Eagle wagon (crashed)


Posted By: toolmanxiii
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 8:01pm
Sorry this is for another room \
but what can I say 
AMC had a very limited budget . so they built parts to mostly interchange , they were smart with thier money . so parts will be interchangeable . They were and still are way ahead of the other 2 . BIG 3 GM, ford/ ?  
Chrysler /Dodge  got billions of $ and made the Kcar , and bought AMC . they still use some of the tech From them 


-------------
71 360 Hornet sst 83 2wd 360/727 Eagle wagon (crashed)


Posted By: kellysguy
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 8:18pm
You can flip sides, HOWEVER; correct shim possition is on the trailing end of the caliper, not the leading end. If you flip side shim location and load direction change.
 
So, instead of the caliper being loaded directly into the bracket, now it's loaded into the shim and spring and then into the bracket. Both of which were never designed to take the force of stopping the car. They are only there to take up slack and permit easy removal of the caliper.
 
You can physically mount them to the rear, however; load won't be distributed safely or correctly.


Posted By: kellysguy
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 8:20pm
FWIW I'm surprised too.


Posted By: kellysguy
Date Posted: Jul/26/2012 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by mmaher94087 mmaher94087 wrote:

And I thought that rear mounted front calipers kept the front of the car from diving to the pavement in hard braking!  Never thought about the center of gravity stuff.  Mike
 
Torisional load into the suspension is the same whether it's mounted forward or backwards.


Posted By: toolmanxiii
Date Posted: Jul/27/2012 at 5:28am
Originally posted by kellysguy kellysguy wrote:

You can flip sides, HOWEVER; correct shim possition is on the trailing end of the caliper, not the leading end. If you flip side shim location and load direction change.
 
So, instead of the caliper being loaded directly into the bracket, now it's loaded into the shim and spring and then into the bracket. Both of which were never designed to take the force of stopping the car. They are only there to take up slack and permit easy removal of the caliper.
 
You can physically mount them to the rear, however; load won't be distributed safely or correctly.
And what shim would that be ? 
look up calipers for a 77 hornet and caliper for an 80 LTD ford . they are the same just left is right and right is left . 
Anti rattle clips are always placed on the trailing side .
WAGNER Part # CR84065 More   Information About this Part   Unloaded Caliper; Reman
http://www.rockauto.com/lang/en/answers.html#flags" rel="nofollow">Flag   indicates this part fits vehicles sold in the US Market. It does not   indicate where the part was made -- manufacturers produce parts in   multiple factories worldwide. http://www.rockauto.com/lang/en/answers.html#flags" rel="nofollow">Flag   indicates this part fits vehicles sold in the Canadian Market. It does   not indicate where the part was made -- manufacturers produce parts in   multiple factories worldwide. Front Right; w/Rear Mount Calipers; OE Metal Piston
http://www.rockauto.com/lang/en/answers.html#flags" rel="nofollow">Flag   indicates this part fits vehicles sold in the US Market. It does not   indicate where the part was made -- manufacturers produce parts in   multiple factories worldwide. http://www.rockauto.com/lang/en/answers.html#flags" rel="nofollow">Flag   indicates this part fits vehicles sold in the Canadian Market. It does   not indicate where the part was made -- manufacturers produce parts in   multiple factories worldwide. Front Left; w/Forward Mount Calipers; OE Metal Piston

WAGNER Part # CR84066 More   Information About this Part   Unloaded Caliper; Reman
http://www.rockauto.com/lang/en/answers.html#flags" rel="nofollow">Flag   indicates this part fits vehicles sold in the US Market. It does not   indicate where the part was made -- manufacturers produce parts in   multiple factories worldwide. http://www.rockauto.com/lang/en/answers.html#flags" rel="nofollow">Flag   indicates this part fits vehicles sold in the Canadian Market. It does   not indicate where the part was made -- manufacturers produce parts in   multiple factories worldwide. Front Right; w/Forward Mount Calipers; OE Metal Piston
http://www.rockauto.com/lang/en/answers.html#flags" rel="nofollow">Flag   indicates this part fits vehicles sold in the US Market. It does not   indicate where the part was made -- manufacturers produce parts in   multiple factories worldwide. http://www.rockauto.com/lang/en/answers.html#flags" rel="nofollow">Flag   indicates this part fits vehicles sold in the Canadian Market. It does   not indicate where the part was made -- manufacturers produce parts in   multiple factories worldwide. Front Left; w/Rear Mount Calipers; OE Metal Piston
Compliments of rock auto  And if you are talking about the hold down (alignment kit block and spring) Ford [I hate to keep referring to them but they did use a lot of the same part suppliers] , have used them on both leading and trailing sides for years without any problems ,


-------------
71 360 Hornet sst 83 2wd 360/727 Eagle wagon (crashed)


Posted By: kellysguy
Date Posted: Jul/27/2012 at 9:12am
Originally posted by toolmanxiii toolmanxiii wrote:

Originally posted by kellysguy kellysguy wrote:

You can flip sides, HOWEVER; correct shim possition is on the trailing end of the caliper, not the leading end. If you flip side shim location and load direction change.
 
So, instead of the caliper being loaded directly into the bracket, now it's loaded into the shim and spring and then into the bracket. Both of which were never designed to take the force of stopping the car. They are only there to take up slack and permit easy removal of the caliper.
 
You can physically mount them to the rear, however; load won't be distributed safely or correctly.
 And if you are talking about the hold down (alignment kit block and spring) Ford [I hate to keep referring to them but they did use a lot of the same part suppliers] , have used them on both leading and trailing sides for years without any problems ,
 
Yes, that is what I'm reffering to. I don't have a Ford  here to review the desgin but for me and my AMC, they are gonna stay on the  trailing side of the caliper. You have to remember, the block end is where the caliper comes out. Last thing I want to do with brake parts is load them in the direction of disassembly.Wink
 
Ever notice pressurized airplanes open from the inside...LOL


Posted By: toolmanxiii
Date Posted: Jul/27/2012 at 2:54pm
Yes and the ones I switched I also drilled and taped  for the pin on  the trailing side just to be safe . 

-------------
71 360 Hornet sst 83 2wd 360/727 Eagle wagon (crashed)


Posted By: kellysguy
Date Posted: Jul/27/2012 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by toolmanxiii toolmanxiii wrote:

Yes and the ones I switched I also drilled and taped  for the pin on  the trailing side just to be safe . 
 
I thought about that but the other side is machined different on this set.


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Aug/03/2012 at 10:41pm
Originally posted by mmaher94087 mmaher94087 wrote:

And I thought that rear mounted front calipers kept the front of the car from diving to the pavement in hard braking!  Never thought about the center of gravity stuff.  Mike
 
...because it's not true.
I posted some links and quotes a few weeks ago on the very topic. Plus, it doesn't take a whole lot to find the facts on performance brakes from some folks who design/engineer them.
Too much mis-information here, sorry. But some of it was good for a chuckle.
In many cases, it's a pure matter of space and clearance, in other cases, it's how the braking impacts turns, being front or rear mounted, loading the bearings, steering, etc. But it's not center of gravity or to shift weight to the center.
 
I'll do a search and see if I can come up with the post that had the info in it. There were some links if I recall, quotes from sites, one from a brake engineer himself.
tyrodtom had info that's true...... but then that's no surprise to me.
And like was posted - check the Eagle and other later AMC listing - the calipers on my Eagle would mount either ahead or behind, depending on the bracket. They interchange. The bracket makes the difference. (Eagle also used different style calipers, depending on the year, for example, the ones used on 81 SX/4 won't fit 82 SX/4 even though the rotors are identical)


-------------


http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com

http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net