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AMC logo'd high quality parts

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Topic: AMC logo'd high quality parts
Posted By: amx39068
Subject: AMC logo'd high quality parts
Date Posted: Mar/14/2012 at 10:09pm
Struck a deal today to become a distribtor for high quality and legal AMC logo'd parts plus will also be partnering and investing in other repop parts that are not yet available in the aftermarket.

Hope to have the list of parts available listed up on www.amcmusclecars.com within the next week or two but would also like to hear from forum members on what many of you would like to have that is not available anywhere else.

This is starting to be a lot of fun.



-------------
Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development



Replies:
Posted By: SEdmonds
Date Posted: Mar/14/2012 at 10:25pm
The holy grail for mid-sixties cars....crash pads aka dash pads.
 
 


Posted By: 69 ambassador 390
Date Posted: Mar/14/2012 at 10:27pm
A nice auto shift knob without the die defects like all the current ones.  Maybe in polished aluminum or cast and chromed.  You can use my NOS one on the Ambo as a pattern.  Just put it on to drive it down to your shop.

-------------
Steve Brown

Algonac, Mi.

69 Ambassador sst 390

84 Grand Wagoneer

69 Cougar XR7

65 Fairlaine 500XL

79 F-350 Super Camper Special





Posted By: azfletch
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 10:09am
SC/Rambler and Rogue Dash pads.

-------------
Mark Fletcher
72 AMX 401 with 6K original miles.
70 Mark Donohue Javelin, 390 4 speed with 47K miles.
70 AMX, 390 AT, AC Randall car.
67 Rogue Barbados Blue 290 225HP 4 speed convertible 71K miles.


Posted By: Ohio AMX
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 10:57am
73-77 Hornet hood badges (both types) and volcano caps. Please.

-------------
1940 Hupmobile Skylark
1968 Javelin future Pro Street
1969 AMX 290/auto (first car)
1997 Dodge SS/T 5.9L
AMO# 983


Posted By: fast401
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 11:16am
"AFFORDABLE" 70 AMX grill.  I am still using the original but I think it is getting very brittle.

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Disturbing the peace since 1970!!!   AMX 19245
Facebook page - AMC Nation
www.fast-401.4t.com


Posted By: raysinvegas
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by azfletch azfletch wrote:

SC/Rambler and Rogue Dash pads.
 
X2!!! 64-69. Maybe even those vaccum formed toppers that are available for other makes and models?


-------------
Andy Ray
64 440H
64 440 Convertible
68 Javelin SST 343
69 Javelin SST 343
69 SC/Rambler


Posted By: THE MENACE
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by fast401 fast401 wrote:

"AFFORDABLE" 70 AMX grill.  I am still using the original but I think it is getting very brittle.
 
X2 on this one Dan!
 
I have a nice OE grill, but with the way some people drive in CA. I refuse to put it on my car. Ouch
 
Dennis 
 
 


-------------
Former Owner of:
The Craig Breedlove "AERO AMX"

Still Owner:
SS/AMX #9 replica (THE BIG MENACE)
70 AMX 416, EFI, Nash 5 speed   
70 Javelin 401, 727 (Wife's)
72 Gremlin Autocross Project.


Posted By: sidewinder
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 1:07pm
Dan....
There are literally hundreds of parts that need to be reproduced.  I probably don't have to tell you that!   The hard part is determining which parts and weather the demand will cover the cost of design and tooling etc.   I have had  conversations with some of the vendors that have invested lots of cash and are still trying to make back their initial investment.    It''s always been the issue with AMC that there just isn't the demand to warrant reproducing some parts.  That's exactly why you see some very high pricing on the few original parts that are available.....like the 70 grill that was mentioned.   Even the reproduction grills were pricy and limited.  
I wish you you luck and hope that we see more quality parts down the road....

Chuck Page


-------------
Chuck Page ,AKA Sidewinder
1968 "BLACK CHERRY" Javelin
Previous owner of 2013 Heritage Cup winner 1970 BBO AMX




Posted By: hoosieramc
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 1:31pm
Early Gremlin grill's! 

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Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 1:35pm
Eagle wheel center caps, 5 spoke full split. (there are two styles, one the split in the spokes goes all the way to the nuts, the other it stops short of the center cap)
Have one that could be used as a sample -
frankly, I am thinking of taking it to a high school and having them cast in aluminum and then spun and polished. that way there'd be no plastic.

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http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com

http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com


Posted By: amxdreamer
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 2:08pm
Even though I don't need them personally bumper end caps and the round side marker lights for Spirits/Eagles always seem to be in high demand.

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Tony
Vancouver, BC
1970 AMX
1972 Badassador
AMO#10333


Posted By: BADJAV390
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 2:39pm
69/70 jav/amx 140 mph speedometers 

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1968 AMX 390/4spd
1969 Jav 600 HP Alfano 390 Protouring
1970 Javelin SST 390/4spd
next..71 amx 401/4spd, 70 AMX 390 4spd, 69 sc/rambler, 69 AMX BBO 390 4spd


Posted By: gwryder
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 2:47pm
I'd like to see a "quality" 70 AMX / Javelin crash pad. The one I bought has fitment issues and was a ***tard to align, so that the overlay board would fit and the glove box door would close.

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John
70 AMX





Posted By: sidewinder
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 2:55pm
Moved from general chat to new forum topic...." Product Announcements"...

Chuck Page


-------------
Chuck Page ,AKA Sidewinder
1968 "BLACK CHERRY" Javelin
Previous owner of 2013 Heritage Cup winner 1970 BBO AMX




Posted By: SEdmonds
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 4:41pm
Putting in a word for the FSJ folks (Waggies and Chero's).  A reproduction rear window(tailgate) window crank that doesn't break within a few weeks of installation, AND that has the Red and Blue Jeep Logo (or gold and red Kaiser one).  The repros are plain and the splines split out.  With the number of FSJ folks out there, this might actually MAKE money.


Posted By: AmeriMan
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 5:23pm
This is great news!

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larue390@comcast.net


Posted By: 4spd_74amx
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 7:03pm
Anything humpster has my seal of approval but here are a few things I think are needed.  Numero uno on my list (and I think I speak for others) are machined overlays (a/c and non a/c) and door inserts.  A few honerable mentions are wheel well mouldings, gas tanks, grille mesh, grille (I saw you are working that), headlight surrounds, glass, 4 speed console (early and late style), headliner and cowl induction seal.  

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Posted By: jackdk
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by SEdmonds SEdmonds wrote:

The holy grail for mid-sixties cars....crash pads aka dash pads.
 
 
_______________________________
I SECOND THAT MOTION! Crash pads! Especially 68-69 Javelin/AMX...  Beer


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69 BBG AMX #09007 "If it's to loud! Your to old!:"    jax-AMXpress@msn.com
AMO #1945


Posted By: 68amx1
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 8:40pm
68 american dash pad.


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 8:50pm
Originally posted by 68amx1 68amx1 wrote:

68 american dash pad.


I plan to contact the guy that did restorations on my pads.

What would you be willing to pay for one?

-------------
Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: 70javluvr
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 8:59pm
70 Javelin dash parts and Grill.

-------------
70 Javelin Donohue Tribute car Sonic Silver/Shadow Mask/360/Custom Interior


Posted By: 6768rogues
Date Posted: Mar/15/2012 at 9:05pm
Convertible top latches that fit and work well. They do not have a logo, but are specific to AMCs. I have had reproductions that do not fit well and are soft and prone to bending. I thought about  making them from a billet of stainless steel.

-------------
Content intended for mature audiences. If you experience nausea or diarrhea, stop reading and seek medical attention.

Located usually near Rochester, NY and sometimes central FL.


Posted By: danleym
Date Posted: Mar/16/2012 at 8:29am
Originally posted by amxdreamer amxdreamer wrote:

Even though I don't need them personally bumper end caps and the round side marker lights for Spirits/Eagles always seem to be in high demand.
 
Yes! I have some pretty decent originals, but even so, they're far from perfect. Also, the 3 piece plastic tray that sits between the rear bumper and the body on a Spirit. These are pretty much all dry and brittle, and it's pretty hard to find one with out a crack. Mine was perfect, then a friend that was helping me decided that my bumper looked like a good support to put all his weight one while he was getting up...Angry.


-------------
Hollis Danley
1980 Spirit, 258
2000 VW Jetta TDI
2002 Jeep Wrangler, 4.0
2015 Subaru XV Crosstrek


Posted By: bbgjc
Date Posted: Mar/16/2012 at 10:16am
The various versions of carb tags would sell well.
How about getting Seymour paints to make the first gen. blue engine paint (68 model)? 
A better version of the AMX headliners.
Turn signal and tilt levers.
Full body plug kits, the hard to find oval shaped one it the major offender.

Go Dan Go!!!!



Posted By: SEdmonds
Date Posted: Mar/16/2012 at 11:04am
I have a long list of things that we were unable to find - and we had to either save the old part and do our best to salvage it - or find something similar that would almost match - but realistically speaking - there probably isn't much demand for stuff for cars like mine.


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Mar/16/2012 at 11:04am
The early paint color is already out there from the AMC vendors and is the color on the engine in my 68 AMX.
 
 
 
 


-------------
Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Mar/16/2012 at 1:37pm
Just put a bunch of repopped parts up on http://www.amcmusclecars.com" rel="nofollow - amcmusclecars.com .  List pricing will be forthcoming but as always the more you buy the better the deal.

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Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/15/2012 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by danleym danleym wrote:

Originally posted by amxdreamer amxdreamer wrote:

Even though I don't need them personally bumper end caps and the round side marker lights for Spirits/Eagles always seem to be in high demand.
 
Yes! I have some pretty decent originals, but even so, they're far from perfect. Also, the 3 piece plastic tray that sits between the rear bumper and the body on a Spirit. These are pretty much all dry and brittle, and it's pretty hard to find one with out a crack. Mine was perfect, then a friend that was helping me decided that my bumper looked like a good support to put all his weight one while he was getting up...Angry.


I'll clarify this a bit -

Yes on the round markers for Spirits and Eagle Kammback and SX/4
I think I may have bought (after taking out a 3rd mortgage on the house) the last NOS pair in existence, although I have some really nice used ones that aren't cracked and brittle and shiny from the hairline cracks all over the surface. There were originally left and right, and if I recall, the lens IS different, even though the service replacement was to cut the pin on the one and use it on both sides, it's not really correct - they reflect differently if I recall correctly (there's a front and back, even though they sit on the side of the car) the NOS pair may sit in my storage for a while as i'm afraid to put them on....... actually, I'll wait until after it's repainted, then put them on just one time.

That Spirit filler can be found on eBay every so often. SX/4 doesn't use that as it's a "truck" by classification and uses a non-movable bumper - the bumper is rigid to the frame. No cylinders. So I suppose the Spirit folks are sort of outta luck on that part as there's not many other cars they can swipe that part from.

The Eagle bumper ends or corners, now THAT's a kicker.
The front, not so needed ......... at least not YET, as those are universal on all Eagles.
Eagle sedan, wagon, kammie, SX/4, 1981 through end of production all take the same front bumper ends or corners.
The back, that's a different story.... and with the SX/4 and kammback being such limited production the REAR bumper ends or corners are rare as hens' teeth, and quite costly. They only fit those two models.
Among the most expensive of ALL Eagle parts are the REAR bumper ends/corners. I saw a pair sell for over 200 bucks recently. OUCH! They get brittle with age and sun, and you nudge them as you walk by, they break to the ground. It's scary taking my little SX/4 out as all it takes is someone to lean on the car or brush it as they walk by, or just tap it with a shopping cart, there's $$ worth of rear bumper ends shattered to the ground.
I'd like to see those, and I'd be willing to pay 50 bucks EACH for them if there was a GOOD reproduction.


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Posted By: 70BBOAMX
Date Posted: May/15/2012 at 9:01pm
Machine wheel trim rings




Posted By: SANCAPJJ
Date Posted: Jun/03/2012 at 8:03pm
E Brake handles for the Rouge/SC Rambler/Americans.   I know they used to be reproduced.   I have never found an original that isn't cracked or split. - JJ


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Jun/03/2012 at 9:03pm
AMARK does the Javelin, apparently doesn't do these?
Would be a good thing, then.


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http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com

http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com


Posted By: bigbad69
Date Posted: Jun/03/2012 at 9:46pm
The Javelin/AMX ones are release handles. The Ramblers did not use a foot pedal. It's a pull out to set, turn and push in to release style of lever. Lot's more pressure than the release handles, so a simple moulded plastic thingy won't last long in this case. I think it would need to be metal encapsulated in plastic.

-------------
69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Jun/03/2012 at 10:29pm
Vice-grips painted black and lettered with a paint pen?
Yeah, I knew the brakes were different, but seems to me I can recall them not being all that hard to pull - and with the large handle, you think it would not be strong enough?
 
My grandmother's American had that, and I drove that car quite a few times, and worked on quite a few, guess I never thought it was a lot of effort on them.... I actually much prefer them to the pedal. I never cared for a parking/e-brake pedal system. Always liked the levers and such.
 
(of course the last one I used was back in the 80s, and things just worked a lot better then, probably a lot more gummy, more prone to being stuck, harder to pull due to rust, dirt, etc. now than then. I was also younger - and stronger then, too........)
I think of the tiny plastic tab that was the hood release for the 80s cars - and the stress on that small part as the hood release cable wore, got gummy and sticky.......... now there's a tiny piece of plastic with a lot of stress.


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http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com

http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com


Posted By: 17tamx
Date Posted: Jun/08/2012 at 10:08pm
They have been repoduced in metal since the plastic will not last.

-------------
Kirk P. Fletcher
70 AMX BBG w/Shadow 390 4sp
71 SC360 Wild Plum Ram Air 4sp
67 Rogue Convert 343 4sp
66 Rogue Hardtop 290 Auto
66 440 Convert 232 Auto


Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Jun/11/2012 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by SANCAPJJ SANCAPJJ wrote:

E Brake handles for the Rouge/SC Rambler/Americans.   I know they used to be reproduced.   I have never found an original that isn't cracked or split. - JJ


I don't know the source, but as Dan says they are made in metal.
I got lucky and one of my parts cars had one.
It is chrome and looks period correct, though not, since the originals are black plastic.

It is nice to be able to depress the brake and give the e-brake a hearty yank without fear of it shattering into little black pieces!

A note in their use.
  I mentioned to my 81 year old dad how it was difficult to get a good "hold" with the pull handle even
with new cables etc; He promptly replied, "we were told by the zone and service rep to tell customers to apply the foot brake has a hard as they can, then pull and set the e-brake".


-------------
Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler
4.0L, 5 speed
2015 Grand Cherokee Limited
2019 Chrysler 300


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Jun/11/2012 at 3:31pm
One of my SC/Rambler rstorations had the SC/Rambler T handle welded onto the eBrake it and it looked so good I left it there!

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Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: ScrambledEgg
Date Posted: Jun/11/2012 at 5:10pm

Regarding the e-brake handles for Americans, the originals that I have (and have seen) all have a slight bend in the handle to begin with (that is correct). They are not molded at exactly 90 degrees to the e brake shaft. This lends to bending and further damage if not pulled on with most of the force being put around/centered on the main shaft rather than the end of the handle.

Both the 65-66 and 67-68 Ford Mustang designed handles are similar to the Rambler and I beleive they will work on a Rambler but they look slightly different.

-------------
ScrambledEgg


Posted By: KermitDRambler
Date Posted: Jun/11/2012 at 6:50pm
I had one of the replacement handles on my former 68 American and I was not happy with it. Firstly, it was heavy and never sat straight. Secondly (and most import), it was waaaaay to soft and broke the first time I used it. Mustang handles do fit. You'll need to re-drill the hole for the roll pin and the part that goes over the shaft is longer so you'll need a washer or two to space the new handle out far enough. You can read about the swap I did at http://www.mattsoldcars.com/RestoreAmerican/parking_brake_handle.shtml" rel="nofollow - http://www.mattsoldcars.com/RestoreAmerican/parking_brake_handle.shtml  .
 
Matt


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1967 American wagon

http://www.mattsoldcars.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.mattsoldcars.com


Posted By: 67RogueX-Code
Date Posted: Jun/11/2012 at 6:58pm
...taking this a bit (more) off-topic... but has anyone used the emergency-brake pedal assembly from a Javelin, instead of the pull-handle?

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Bob Wilcox

67RogueX-Code


Posted By: Rebel Machine
Date Posted: Jun/22/2012 at 6:47pm
I'd like to see rear quarter patch panels for '70 Rebel, which would fit series 10 and series 80 chassis 2-door cars from '70-'74.
 
I've offered my passenger side NOS quarter to two places but neither can do it. I'm wondering if the passenger side could be mirrored to create the driver's side.
 
-Steve-
 


Posted By: 70RebelGeezer
Date Posted: Jun/23/2012 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by Rebel Machine Rebel Machine wrote:

I'd like to see rear quarter patch panels for '70 Rebel, which would fit series 10 and series 80 chassis 2-door cars from '70-'74.
 
I've offered my passenger side NOS quarter to two places but neither can do it. I'm wondering if the passenger side could be mirrored to create the driver's side.
 
-Steve-
 
Steve, the answer to that is yes.
 
With the tools available to engineering/machining firms, the existing panel is carefully measured,  shapes, and contours established and then all that info is fed into the computer. Equipped with the suitable machining program, that computer with a competent programmer can generate the mirror image; along with the necessary machining processes to actually machine the tool steel die pieces to the required panel shape. It sounds fairly simple and straight forward but she's a fairly complex process and expensive to have done.
 
The cost to tool up a set of sheet metal stamping dies to manufacture even a decent size patch panel is going to start around $ 20K. then there's the additional cost of heat treating for durability. Then you have to have access to a suitable large tonnage press in order to stamp the panels.
 
I investigated the possibility of gearing up to produce patches a while back.
I even have a buddy who owns a good sized CNC Machine Shop, has 7 machining centers (2 are 5 axis) which can produce just about any complex shape you want. He's very good and could produce dies for me..... trouble is, he's swamped filling orders for big industry and no time available.
With the limited market, the cost of the dies might never be recovered & much less make a profit. I had to ask myself, how many patches could/would I have to sell to avoid loosing my shirt?  The answer was not reassuring. 
 
Ron 


Posted By: Teamamc
Date Posted: Jun/23/2012 at 5:02pm
Not to duplicate efforts. we are moving forward with the 70 Rebel headliner reproductions. and the 71/74 Javelin Headliner reproductions.The roofs are being cut off in the next few weeks for the Molds.
We are also going to Add the 68/70 AMX headliners to the list.
Looking at reproducing the 68/70 amX javelin  71/74 Rear louvers in Light aluminum.
May branch out to the Spirit style if there is a demand.
 
Any interest in a Carbon fibre cloth headliners. Just toying with the Pro mod cars.
 
 
 


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Posted By: turbo
Date Posted: Jul/21/2012 at 6:45pm
heck, I'd buy amx headliners, padded as original, all day!

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they call me Capt RETIRED!


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Jul/22/2012 at 9:36am
By all means anyone please jump in and post their stuff like Bryan!!!

I plan to retire within the next 6-8 months and will then be able to do this stuff nearly full time. Until then I am most gathering information on what is wanted in the marketplace.

Right now I am working diligently on finishing the cars other have already agree to buy but it is still slow going even with full time workers at the shop. You just gotta be there to make sure it comes out right!

The same hold true on doing all the engineering work and then having parts made. Unless you can focus your personal attention on it, you might just as well flush the money down the toilet.

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Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: SEdmonds
Date Posted: Jul/22/2012 at 10:11am
The circular blue resin lens in the trunk lid of Marlins is something I've never seen anyone else reproduce.  Even if an original one is intact on a car, it is usually cracks or discolored.  Even though Marlins were not produced in large numbers, a good percentage of them survived so there might be a decent market for these.


Posted By: SportaboutX
Date Posted: Jul/22/2012 at 12:59pm
Matador coupe roof rail seals! EVERY coupe owner would buy a set and there are plenty of us left. I have a NOS pair to make the moulds just need someone I can trust these ubber rare and valuable parts with to remake them for the community


Posted By: BenM
Date Posted: Jul/23/2012 at 1:55pm
It's been my experience rear plastic light covers for a Pacer coupe are made of unobtainium. They go for high prices even when damaged and the old plastic cracks easily. I'd sure love to find a source for those.

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76 Pacer


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Jul/27/2012 at 1:18am
not sure there are enough Pacer lovers left to make even an unobtainium part have any payback

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Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: tufcj
Date Posted: Jul/27/2012 at 3:26am
I'd like to see someone repop the shift hump for a 4 speed Rambler American.  Mine came with a modified AMX hump, which doesn't fit very well.  So far, i haven't been able to find a used original.

Bob
tufcj


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69 AMX
74 Javelin AMX
67 Rogue

If you need a tool and don't buy it...
you'll eventually pay for it...
and not have it.
Henry Ford


Posted By: KermitDRambler
Date Posted: Jul/27/2012 at 7:07am
Dan,
 
If you decide to start messing with weatherstrips, I'd love to see new window gaskets for 64-69 American wagon rear side windows (specifically the type with the stainless moulding set in them). There isn't a good solution (other than re-using ancient gaskets) that both works and looks good right now. I'm sure this is another case of tooling killing this before it starts but I can always dreamSmile.
 
Matt


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1967 American wagon

http://www.mattsoldcars.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.mattsoldcars.com


Posted By: bigbad69
Date Posted: Jul/27/2012 at 7:30am
How about Trendsetters? Since that company stopped making the cover plates, you can only get the pipes and mufflers.

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69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10


Posted By: 70RebelGeezer
Date Posted: Jul/27/2012 at 9:48am
Metro Moulded Rubber's website states that they want old car enthusiasts to contact them with requests for any items not presently in repop.
 
That may be an avenue to explore for any weatherstrips, moulded pieces that are hard to aquire.
 
I'm thinking the door and trunk weatherstrip for Rebels in particular.
 
Unfortunatly, I don't have any good samples to send them but if anyone out there is willing to send them an NOS part(s) so they can get the dimensional info etc.......that may be the answer to the scarce supply of good replacement rubber.
 
Just something to think about.
 
 
Ron


-------------
'68 Rebel SST
Selling Bellcranks '67-69,'70-up big body cars
3rd gen. American with V-8 Bellcrank assemblies
Gremlin and Hornet Z-bar now available
Z-bar Bronze Bushing
Rebel Gas Tank Straps


Posted By: KermitDRambler
Date Posted: Jul/27/2012 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by 70RebelGeezer 70RebelGeezer wrote:

Metro Moulded Rubber's website states that they want old car enthusiasts to contact them with requests for any items not presently in repop.
 
I talked to them about the wagon window gaskets a couple of years ago and they said they'd do it if I paid the $10k- $20k for the tooling.
 
Matt


-------------
1967 American wagon

http://www.mattsoldcars.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.mattsoldcars.com


Posted By: 70RebelGeezer
Date Posted: Jul/27/2012 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by KermitDRambler KermitDRambler wrote:

Originally posted by 70RebelGeezer 70RebelGeezer wrote:

Metro Moulded Rubber's website states that they want old car enthusiasts to contact them with requests for any items not presently in repop.
 
I talked to them about the wagon window gaskets a couple of years ago and they said they'd do it if I paid the $10k- $20k for the tooling.
 
Matt
 
Well, that was awfully good of them eh?
 
 
 
Ron


-------------
'68 Rebel SST
Selling Bellcranks '67-69,'70-up big body cars
3rd gen. American with V-8 Bellcrank assemblies
Gremlin and Hornet Z-bar now available
Z-bar Bronze Bushing
Rebel Gas Tank Straps


Posted By: danleym
Date Posted: Jul/27/2012 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by KermitDRambler KermitDRambler wrote:

Originally posted by 70RebelGeezer 70RebelGeezer wrote:

Metro Moulded Rubber's website states that they want old car enthusiasts to contact them with requests for any items not presently in repop.
 
I talked to them about the wagon window gaskets a couple of years ago and they said they'd do it if I paid the $10k- $20k for the tooling.
 
Matt


That would be one expensive set of window gaskets...LOL


-------------
Hollis Danley
1980 Spirit, 258
2000 VW Jetta TDI
2002 Jeep Wrangler, 4.0
2015 Subaru XV Crosstrek


Posted By: toolmanxiii
Date Posted: Aug/13/2012 at 4:18am
Originally posted by 70BBOAMX 70BBOAMX wrote:

Machine wheel trim rings



most definitely. Or more to the point any 14/15  rally rim trim ring. I am always losing 1 for some reason .

-------------
71 360 Hornet sst 83 2wd 360/727 Eagle wagon (crashed)


Posted By: nashty1
Date Posted: Aug/13/2012 at 3:24pm
This is a real problem.   I'm in a club where everyone wanted engine cam bearings, the club spent big $$ to have them available and have sold very few of them.   So now it is several years later and the money is still tied up.    Maybe it is best to get orders with money before investing in something that you won't get a return on. 


Posted By: toolmanxiii
Date Posted: Aug/13/2012 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by nashty1 nashty1 wrote:

This is a real problem.   I'm in a club where everyone wanted engine cam bearings, the club spent big $$ to have them available and have sold very few of them.   So now it is several years later and the money is still tied up.    Maybe it is best to get orders with money before investing in something that you won't get a return on. 
I can still buy complete engine kits for jeep /amc V8's so if you did not do research who is at fault. I think what Dan is doing will be good for all of us . 
Again just my 2c 


-------------
71 360 Hornet sst 83 2wd 360/727 Eagle wagon (crashed)


Posted By: amxgtx
Date Posted: Aug/13/2012 at 7:06pm
"How about Trendsetters? Since that company stopped making the cover plates, you can only get the pipes and mufflers"
 
I still have the dies. Can still make the Shields, Rails and Fiberglass End Caps. I never sold the complete system just these parts. No pipes. everyone wanted the complete system and bought from the other guy then complained because they didn't fit perfect.
I will not make them 1 set at a time, will not make them to sit in my garage until someone wants them. Sorry if this sounds harsh but I've invested in several items for the hobby and have lost money on almost every one of them.
SC/H emblems in the 1980's they where original down to the vaccum metalizing
Hinge covers for the 68-69 AMX and Javelin seats. The ones that go on the inboard side of the seat.
4-speed shifter spacer with bolts and Heli coils. CNC Milled
Custom Billit Aluminum Air Cleaners with filter for both single and dual quad intakes
Custom Billit Aluminum license plates
 
Larry
My name is not Bursaw!
 
 


Posted By: raceral
Date Posted: Aug/13/2012 at 7:26pm
I would like to see some 'real' window fuzzies for the doors, unless some one already makes authentic ones and I don't know about it.

Al


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Aug/13/2012 at 9:46pm
Currently spending most of my investment time and energy on remodeling a really fun second home in the cool elevation of Prescott, AZ that we were fortunate to find at a great value. Also finishing up a couple of cars at the AMC restoration shop. Once these priorities are behind me, I'll get into sorting out which parts are worth reproducing. Right now another run of crossram intakes with Edelbrock is at the top of the list.

-------------
Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: kirkwood
Date Posted: Aug/13/2012 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by raceral raceral wrote:

I would like to see some 'real' window fuzzies for the doors, unless some one already makes authentic ones and I don't know about it.

Al


Peter Stathes- amcrambler.com

-------------
AMO Newsletter Editor


Posted By: RamblinAMC
Date Posted: Aug/13/2012 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by hoosieramc hoosieramc wrote:

Early Gremlin grill's! 


In billet aluminum!!!Clap


-------------
1963 Rambler American 330

1971 Hurst Jeepster

1972 Commando 4.0

1972 Commando 258

1975 Jeep J20 401


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Aug/13/2012 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by amx39068 amx39068 wrote:

Currently spending most of my investment time and energy on remodeling a really fun second home in the cool elevation of Prescott, AZ that we were fortunate to find at a great value. Also finishing up a couple of cars at the AMC restoration shop. Once these priorities are behind me, I'll get into sorting out which parts are worth reproducing. Right now another run of crossram intakes with Edelbrock is at the top of the list.


   That would be awesome, especially if they improved velocity and flow to make them work with modern cams and carbs.

   I think repro front fenders for 68-70 AMX's and javelins should be sought after, the surviing numbers for both of those models that share the same fenders should make it feasable......also repro 68-70 hoods since again they are interchangeable with the much larger production run javelins giving these parts a much larger market than just the AMX alone....then maybe one piece rear quarters. The AMC hobby DESPERATELY needs repro body parts....for these 2 cars.


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/08/2012 at 11:16am
Wow this topics dead in the water.


Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Sep/08/2012 at 12:48pm
348AMX the 70 hood is a 1 year only hood as it is longer that the 68/69 hood.
Now you can use either hood (68/9 & 70) on the other years but using the 70 you will also need the fender extentions, grile & brackets, grile boomerang, bumper & extentions this off the top of my head.
As for the repop front fenders there is a difference between 69 & 70 for the side marker light but otherwise they bolt up. But I would take either one at this point.
And he11 yes on the full rear qt.
Dave ----


-------------
TSM = Technical Service Manual

75 Gremlin X v8 for sale
70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car


Posted By: bigbad69
Date Posted: Sep/08/2012 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by FuzzFace2 FuzzFace2 wrote:

As for the repop front fenders there is a difference between 69 & 70 for the side marker light but otherwise they bolt up.
Many years ago, I sold off a spare 68/69 fender to a guy with a 70 AMX. He was the one who explained it to me: A 68/69 fender works on a 70 because the side marker light is bigger and covers the hole - you have to drill holes for the light. A 70 fender on a 68/69 car won't work because the the hole is too big and not recessed for the marker light.




-------------
69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/08/2012 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by bigbad69 bigbad69 wrote:


Originally posted by FuzzFace2 FuzzFace2 wrote:

As for the repop front fenders there is a difference between 69 & 70 for the side marker light but otherwise they bolt up.
Many years ago, I sold off a spare 68/69 fender to a guy with a 70 AMX. He was the one who explained it to me: A 68/69 fender works on a 70 because the side marker light is bigger and covers the hole - you have to drill holes for the light. A 70 fender on a 68/69 car won't work because the the hole is too big and not recessed for the marker light.




Someone could always just install 70 marker lights though when using 70 fenders on a 68-9 car.   


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Sep/09/2012 at 12:22am
Originally posted by 348AMX 348AMX wrote:

Wow this topics dead in the water.


Did you not read the earlier post that clearly stated other more pressing items, like the current restorations underway and a new run of crossram intakes, are the top priorities right now? 2012 is a period of requirements gathering in order to determine which new products people are actually willing to spend their hard earned $$$$ to buy.

Like any new venture anyone is considering undertaking, it is always best to clear out old obligations and comittments before undertaking new ones.

And by all means feel free to invest your own time and funds to bring new AMC parts to market if you feel there is enough demand for them to provide a reasonable return on your time and investment.   

-------------
Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Sep/09/2012 at 11:42am
Dan we are just giving hints on what we would like to see made. This way if someone does want to take on something to help us they can come to 1 post give a read thru and pick what they may want to take on is all.
Keep doing what you need to do and we thank you for what you have done and will do for us down the road.
Dave ----


-------------
TSM = Technical Service Manual

75 Gremlin X v8 for sale
70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/25/2012 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by amx39068 amx39068 wrote:

Originally posted by 348AMX 348AMX wrote:

Wow this topics dead in the water.


Did you not read the earlier post that clearly stated other more pressing items, like the current restorations underway and a new run of crossram intakes, are the top priorities right now? 2012 is a period of requirements gathering in order to determine which new products people are actually willing to spend their hard earned $$$$ to buy.

Like any new venture anyone is considering undertaking, it is always best to clear out old obligations and comittments before undertaking new ones.

And by all means feel free to invest your own time and funds to bring new AMC parts to market if you feel there is enough demand for them to provide a reasonable return on your time and investment.   


No worries Dan, but I think the time and effort invested into getting cross ram intakes reproduced would be better allocated towards getting quality sheetmetal parts reproduced instead. Put the need for crossrams on a scale with the need for repro sheetmetal and the scale will drop HARD on the sheetmetal side.

I would hardly consider crossrams a priority in the world of AMX/Javelin restoration. There is an ABSOLUTE need for body parts....in fact I'd say its getting CRITICAL to get new sheet metal parts reproduced. Fenders and hoods are really getting hard to find without needing a lot of work. Rear quarters really should be available in ONE piece, not the collection of "patch" sections that are avaiable now to fix the lower section of AMX's and javelins.

2 words for ya...FENDER TROUGHS! LOL.

I won't argue with your individual passion to get crossrams repro'd though, if that is what you want to do, go for it!


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Sep/25/2012 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by 348AMX 348AMX wrote:


No worries Dan, but I think the time and effort invested into getting cross ram intakes reproduced would be better allocated towards getting quality sheetmetal parts reproduced instead. Put the need for crossrams on a scale with the need for repro sheetmetal and the scale will drop HARD on the sheetmetal side.

I would hardly consider crossrams a priority in the world of AMX/Javelin restoration. There is an ABSOLUTE need for body parts....in fact I'd say its getting CRITICAL to get new sheet metal parts reproduced. Fenders and hoods are really getting hard to find without needing a lot of work. Rear quarters really should be available in ONE piece, not the collection of "patch" sections that are avaiable now to fix the lower section of AMX's and javelins.

2 words for ya...FENDER TROUGHS! LOL.

I won't argue with your individual passion to get crossrams repro'd though, if that is what you want to do, go for it!


>>2 words for ya...FENDER TROUGHS! Gussets.....  ;-)  <<

Sheetmetal is fine, and I would actually agree with ya, 348, however, realistically, let's just say this was directed only at 1 person - ok, say it's Dan, he can handle my crap...... given a choice for return on investment, complexity, etc. - I'd be shooting for the intake. Just try to reproduce a complex piece such as a fender for an AMX or javelin - look at the complex compound curves which must be reproduced faithfully. Unless you have the facilities - say you are another Matt of bulltear fame, even for him, it would be quite an undertaking. Buy the steel - quality steel, not imported stuff made from our old beer cans that rusts or BREAKS due to being brittle, etc.
Ship a fender or quarter panel (dunno why we all say "front fender" - if it's a fender, it's on the front, or rear quarter panel - if it's a q-p, it's on the rear) Stock the steel, come up with the pieces to get it made on your presses - large enough to handle the raw material of a size sufficient to create a quarter panel or fender......

The gussets, on the other hand - not as tough at all - simple bends, no compound curves that must appear perfect when a nice coat of shiny black paint is applied.. It's hidden, so if there's a slight difference between left and right, only the AMO judge laying on his (or her) backside slid under your fender along side the tire is going to know (and you, of course)

Now 348, don't take me wrong - I'd be pretty please myself if someone of a Donald Trump sort of wealth came in and said "your dreams will come true, all AMC sheet metal will be reproduced by next spring". Yikes! He'd give me chills up and down my leg.
However, when looked at in depth - the logistics, cost, planning, SIZE of facility, etc. - one can see why one might opt for intakes over quarter panels.

We need only defer to Mark of AMARK fame - and the hassles HE has to deal with on the smaller parts he is supplying we lucky folks. We are incredibly fortunate he does what he does on the scale he does. Sure I wish he did more, especially certain parts I crave and need - but if I were in his shoes...... honestly, not sure what I'd do. Amplify the messing with spare tire canisters and decals 10,000 times, then maybe you might be able to compare to large, heavy, complex steel parts.........

Personally, though, I'm an echo of your requests......... so don't see it as an argument or dissing your thoughts, please. That's not the point here.

I think each is right and proper in the thinking.
But then, who cares what I think or have to say?  LOL
This post is probably worth every penny you paid for it and the cost you paid to come here and read it.


-------------


http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com

http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com


Posted By: 71 Javelin AMX O.O.
Date Posted: Sep/25/2012 at 1:29pm
Dan:
 
I would be very interrested in purchasing a couple of the air cleaner normanclature sticker for the 1971 401 air cleaner housing that Larry Williams has provided you a copy of. 
 
Steve
Oringal owner 1971 Javelin AMX


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/25/2012 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:


Originally posted by 348AMX 348AMX wrote:


No worries Dan, but I think the time and effort invested into getting cross ram intakes reproduced would be better allocated towards getting quality sheetmetal parts reproduced instead. Put the need for crossrams on a scale with the need for repro sheetmetal and the scale will drop HARD on the sheetmetal side.

I would hardly consider crossrams a priority in the world of AMX/Javelin restoration. There is an ABSOLUTE need for body parts....in fact I'd say its getting CRITICAL to get new sheet metal parts reproduced. Fenders and hoods are really getting hard to find without needing a lot of work. Rear quarters really should be available in ONE piece, not the collection of "patch" sections that are avaiable now to fix the lower section of AMX's and javelins.

2 words for ya...FENDER TROUGHS! LOL.

I won't argue with your individual passion to get crossrams repro'd though, if that is what you want to do, go for it!


>>2 words for ya...FENDER TROUGHS! Gussets.....  ;-)  <<

Sheetmetal is fine, and I would actually agree with ya, 348, however, realistically, let's just say this was directed only at 1 person - ok, say it's Dan, he can handle my crap...... given a choice for return on investment, complexity, etc. - I'd be shooting for the intake. Just try to reproduce a complex piece such as a fender for an AMX or javelin - look at the complex compound curves which must be reproduced faithfully. Unless you have the facilities - say you are another Matt of bulltear fame, even for him, it would be quite an undertaking. Buy the steel - quality steel, not imported stuff made from our old beer cans that rusts or BREAKS due to being brittle, etc.
Ship a fender or quarter panel (dunno why we all say "front fender" - if it's a fender, it's on the front, or rear quarter panel - if it's a q-p, it's on the rear) Stock the steel, come up with the pieces to get it made on your presses - large enough to handle the raw material of a size sufficient to create a quarter panel or fender......

The gussets, on the other hand - not as tough at all - simple bends, no compound curves that must appear perfect when a nice coat of shiny black paint is applied.. It's hidden, so if there's a slight difference between left and right, only the AMO judge laying on his (or her) backside slid under your fender along side the tire is going to know (and you, of course)

Now 348, don't take me wrong - I'd be pretty please myself if someone of a Donald Trump sort of wealth came in and said "your dreams will come true, all AMC sheet metal will be reproduced by next spring". Yikes! He'd give me chills up and down my leg.
However, when looked at in depth - the logistics, cost, planning, SIZE of facility, etc. - one can see why one might opt for intakes over quarter panels.

We need only defer to Mark of AMARK fame - and the hassles HE has to deal with on the smaller parts he is supplying we lucky folks. We are incredibly fortunate he does what he does on the scale he does. Sure I wish he did more, especially certain parts I crave and need - but if I were in his shoes...... honestly, not sure what I'd do. Amplify the messing with spare tire canisters and decals 10,000 times, then maybe you might be able to compare to large, heavy, complex steel parts.........

Personally, though, I'm an echo of your requests......... so don't see it as an argument or dissing your thoughts, please. That's not the point here.

I think each is right and proper in the thinking.
But then, who cares what I think or have to say?  LOL
This post is probably worth every penny you paid for it and the cost you paid to come here and read it.


well that's all well and good bill,but if all we get every 10 years is a new intake, along with stickers and shift knobs how is that helping if the bodies of the cars these parts are going into are falling apart around them. So if someone says they are going to be reproducing quality legal AMC parts..I am going to be expecting something big....specifically parts that havent been done yet and are sorely needed. I doubt crossrams would be THAT cheap to reproduce given the size of the pool of people that would realistically be using them....but maybe dan can give some insight into the marketing research he has access to on those???


Posted By: bbgjc
Date Posted: Sep/25/2012 at 6:30pm
If someone was willing to provide NOS sheet metal for a company to reproduce then we can get the ball rolling.
I'll supply a NOS 71/72 Javelin rear tail panel, a NOS 70 left Javelin quarter panel, a NOS 68-74 lower radiator support, a NOS 68-74 upper radiator support to a legitimate company (as long as I get them back for my project)!!!!   Heck, I have an awesome 70 Ram Air hood too.  
What else is out there??? If we all pulled together we COULD get it done!!!!   Dynacor anyone??


Posted By: AmeriMan
Date Posted: Sep/25/2012 at 6:34pm
Any large body panel would be extremely expensive to produce, regardless of it's shape.

At one time I worked in tool & die for GM so I'm familiar with the complexity, cost and size of the dies needed to make these parts.  Then you'll need the huge presses to operate those dies.

Unless thousands of parts would be sold it would be a sure money-loser to attempt such an undertaking.

As much as I would like to see many of these panels reproduced I would say it's not likely to happen.


-------------
larue390@comcast.net


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Sep/25/2012 at 7:22pm
The cost to make the molds or dies for large body panels made out of steel would be well into 5 figures and more likely into 6 figures. So what would the market price be for a panel that cost $75-$150K to start up and which panels would you first produce? AMX, Jav, Humpster, Hornet, Gremmie, American 2dr, 4dr, post car and the list goes on and on. And then there's the cost.  I wonder how many people would be willing to pay $2500-$5000 for any body panel on an AMC? I doubt that's an investment mosy anyone would be willing to make. I know it is not one I'lll be making any time soon when I can buy a whole donor car for less than what a repopped panel will likely cost.

On the other hand, I can use and/or sell right away all the crossrams I can get my hands on. Some things just have greater market appeal and better economics than others. The crossram would be a winner whereas the body panels would likely be a real hard well and a bich to source, stock and sell.

-------------
Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/25/2012 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by amx39068 amx39068 wrote:

The cost to make the molds or dies for large body panels made out of steel would be well into 5 figures and more likely into 6 figures. So what would the market price be for a panel that cost $75-$150K to start up and which panels would you first produce? AMX, Jav, Humpster, Hornet, Gremmie, American 2dr, 4dr, post car and the list goes on and on. And then there's the cost.  I wonder how many people would be willing to pay $2500-$5000 for any body panel on an AMC? I doubt that's an investment mosy anyone would be willing to make. I know it is not one I'lll be making any time soon when I can buy a whole donor car for less than what a repopped panel will likely cost.

On the other hand, I can use and/or sell right away all the crossrams I can get my hands on. Some things just have greater market appeal and better economics than others. The crossram would be a winner whereas the body panels would likely be a real hard well and a bich to source, stock and sell.


Well what are the estimated costs to reproduce the crossram? How many estimated sales in the first production run?...How much will they sell for?   I find it really hard to believe that there is a bigger market for crossram intakes than there would be for people needing 68-70 AMX and javelin fenders, hoods, and doors.

If it did in fact cost say 75,000-100,000 to reproduce say 68-60 AMX/javelin front fenders and they were to retail at the 2500 you say they would than even if you only sold 100 fenders you would make $250,000...that is a %150 return on the investment....do your really think you could make that much off of selling 100 crossrams???
Seriously WAY more then 100 fenders would sell..it would be more like HUNDREDS. There is obviously room for a lower price point.

Plus modern technology has far surpassed the need for the giant Machines they used in the 60's to produce MASSIVE volumes of parts in huge factories on mechanized assembly lines for brand new cars being rushed to assembly for sale at dealerships to meet prodcution deadlines and sales projections .. there is no comparison to that and simply reproducing individual panels 40 years later for much smaller markets with less time constraints...giant obsolete presses simply arent needed for that type of production.



Posted By: Ant
Date Posted: Sep/25/2012 at 10:01pm
I would love a crossram :)
I personally would seriously look into making fender gussets if I had some really nice ones in my hands.  Maybe someday...


-------------
73 AMX project 401 stroker, t-56 mag
Full-time machinist


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Sep/25/2012 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by 348AMX 348AMX wrote:


Well what are the estimated costs to reproduce the crossram? How many estimated sales in the first production run?...How much will they sell for?   I find it really hard to believe that there is a bigger market for crossram intakes than there would be for people needing 68-70 AMX and javelin fenders, hoods, and doors.

If it did in fact cost say 75,000-100,000 to reproduce say 68-60 AMX/javelin front fenders and they were to retail at the 2500 you say they would than even if you only sold 100 fenders you would make $250,000...that is a %150 return on the investment....do your really think you could make that much off of selling 100 crossrams???
Seriously WAY more then 100 fenders would sell..it would be more like HUNDREDS. There is obviously room for a lower price point.

Plus modern technology has far surpassed the need for the giant Machines they used in the 60's to produce MASSIVE volumes of parts in huge factories on mechanized assembly lines for brand new cars being rushed to assembly for sale at dealerships to meet prodcution deadlines and sales projections .. there is no comparison to that and simply reproducing individual panels 40 years later for much smaller markets with less time constraints...giant obsolete presses simply arent needed for that type of production.



It would appear you are missing the point. There are a number of issues with body panels, 1) startup and inventory carrying cost, 2)cost to manufacture the goods once the mold or die is created, 3)which panels do you make (right side, left side, which model line?) 4)at what price will the market actually buy the manufactured good?

With the crossram on the other hand, the initial investment is more about buying a set number of items manufactured at a reasonable cost with a well established manufacturer absorbing the cost of initially creating the product. In essence all they want is a gaurantor who will commit to buying a minimum number of their product to make the startup expense worth undertaking. Additionally, the product is small and relatively easy to store as well as easy to ship with standard shipping either via the post office, Fedex or UPS package shipping.

For the major body panels, you have to store them in a large facility and ensure they do not get storage damage, literally build a crate to ship them again to ensure they are not damaged during shipping, use very expensive freight haulers to ship the crated panels and again determine what the return on investment (ROI) needs to be in order to cover the intial large capital outlay plus recover a reasonable return on inventory and storage costs.

For example, if someone invests in say 100 crossrams at $800 each for cost to manufacture, that's an outlay of $80,000 but there is very little other expense to inventory and prepare them for shipping as you can store them in your garage or even a weather tight shed. And if you sell them for $1200 each, which is half or less of what they currently sell for today IF you can even find one that is NOS, then you make a return of roughly 50% (without factoring in the time value of money which is affected by inflation, lost gain that might have been acrued from an alternative investment, etc).

With the major body panels on the other hand, let's say the setup cost for ONE panel is the same $80K but then you have to pay for the raw goods and materials plus the cost to manufacture them so if those costs are $500 and you hope to sell 100 panels your total cost will be
$130K or $1300 per panel. If you can drop ship the panels directly from the manufacturer then you are only out the $130K in total cost but your cost basis for each panel is already $1300 so even on this simplistic example, you would have to sell them for around $2K each to make the same ROI on your investment.   

Where it gets really dicey is you have no way to ever recover your initial $80K investment if nobody buys the panels and in all probability it will take a really long time to sell even 100 of the units due to the prohibitively high cost to the consumer. On the other hand, if you agree to buy the 100 crossrams, you have them in your hand and you know that eventually you will sell them over time although at $1200 I'll bet you could sell 100 of them within a year.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see new major body panels available for our cars but I highly doubt anyone will ever step up and make them due to both the intial startup cost and uncertainty of the size and demdand within the AMC market. It's pretty much a no brainer with Mopars, Fords or GM cars because they sold millions of nearly every popular model line over multiple years so you know there will likely be sufficient demand to at least recover the intial investment. With AMCs on the other hand, the volumes were much lower and frankly AMC owners are for the most part notoriously frugal so that is a gamble (not even as good as a normal business risk) that I suspect few investors will be willing to make and certainly not an investment anyone I know would be willing to make.

So the bottom line there is much less risk of losing money on the crossram or other similar high demand product that can be committed to manufacture with reasonable risk and a high probability of not only recovering the initial investment but also even making a little profit to make it worth the time and aggravation to do it. Contrarily the risks or even gamble on the body panels will likely not pass any investors sniff test as a good investment so as stated in another response, it will take some super rich person who also just so happens to love AMCs before we will ever see major body panels made for our cars. Add to the equation that you can usually buy a donor car for far less than major panels would cost in aggregate or that a good body man can usually fabricate his own patch panels out of standard 18 gauge sheet metal (like we did the the rocker panel on the 67 Ambo wagon) for a fraction of the cost of the panel makes it very doubtful that someone agreeing to make new panels will ever come to fruition.

It's not about desire or need rather its simply about economics. Something like a crossram has a much higher probability of turning out to be a reasonable investment while creating new body panels is fraught with huge risk and in all probability a horrible investment. I may be wrong but having been in big business my whole life and having made dozens of go no go investments decisions of far larger magnitude and consequence than this one, creating new body panels is not an investment I would make on my own nor an investment I would recommend that a company make due to other investments with a higher potential of success being a better use of investment capital. It is what it is.

-------------
Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/25/2012 at 11:17pm

well I was just thinking more along the lines of the actual market Demand/Need for 68-70 AMX/Javelin front fenders hoods or doors..or all of those compared to the demand/need for a reproduction cross ram intake that only came on 53 actual production cars. Sure there are lots of AMC V8's out there but how many people even know that there used to be a crossram avaialable?

My guess is that once the initial investment was made in getting repro body parts off the groung that there would be WAY more fenders doors and hoods sold in one year compared to the number of cross rams sold in one year.   If you look at each endevor as an economy of scale the body parts have MUCH greater potential as an investment, profit and sustainability. A simple way to gauge this is to just look at parts wanted ads on AMC sites and craigslist and printed media like Hemmings. How often are you going to see "cross ram intake wanted" compared to "AMX body parts wanted to complete restoration project"?

I just think it would be hard to sell crossrams Vs body parts....I would be thrilled to see them reproduced, but they would only satisfy a small niche in an already small market. Body parts would fill the void in the largest segment of the market. Anyway those are my thoughts on all this.


Posted By: bigbad69
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 7:28am
If body parts are such a sure investment, why don't you front the tooling and setup costs for your AMX quarters? You'll get all your money back plus a share in the profits, so it's a no-brainer. Wink 

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69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 10:59am
Originally posted by bigbad69 bigbad69 wrote:

If body parts are such a sure investment, why don't you front the tooling and setup costs for your AMX quarters? You'll get all your money back plus a share in the profits, so it's a no-brainer. Wink 


Well my quarters arent original anymore..they have been worked on in the 80's. If I had NOS body parts laying around uselessly collecting dust like some people out there do, I would gladly take the time to market them to manufacturers that are making repro panels for muscle cars today....because that is what they do LOL!!

As someone already mentioned, all you need is NOS sheetmetal for a manufacturer to get the dimensions, modern scanning, computers and automation will do the rest.
It's kinda funny that people think in 2012 that you cant make the same parts without machines the size of a city block in a factory like those used in the 60's to originally build the cars. Ummm.. that was over 40 years ago with the existing technology they had at that time to mass produce on a scale sufficient to pump out 100's of thousands of body parts to meet stringent production deadlines...for BRAND NEW car models.

Of course if you wanted to do the same quantity and speed today you would need the modern equivalents in a sizeable factory...but we are talking about MUCH smaller quantities produced in a much more relaxed environmnet. There arent ANY muscle cars from the 60's that have survived in those quantities today. Those old 60's factories were designed with quick production of 10's of thousands of ENTIRE cars in mind to integrate with the assembly lines as the cars rolled down the lines. All we are talking about today is reproducing individual parts on a much smaller scale using modern technology that wasnt even available in the 60's....

The computer automated presses used today to reproduce body parts...and in some cases entire bodies of classic muscle cars would fit in a large gargage and can make exact duplicates of just about anything...in smaller less time restrained quantities that would easily meet the demands of any muscle car market....the giant machines from the 60's are obsolete for this purpose

I don't think there are hundreds of AMX and Javelin enthusiasts with projects sitting in yards and garages that are scratching their heads waiting for repro intake manifolds to complete their project to make them roadworthy again...but I have NO DOUBTS at all that there must be HUNDREDS of these cars waiting for reproduction door panels fenders and quarters to complete them.

So the people out there sitting on their NOS panels collection dust waiting for god knows what to do something with them? Are the very parts manufacturers for reproduction Muscle car bodies would need to start the process for making NEW replacements for them.

I also don't have any doubts that say 5 or 6 years from now that there WILL BE these parts available for our our cars...but I would like to see them sooner.


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 11:10am
All I can go by is the intense demand and absurd prices paid for any crossram that comes available. Also bear in mind that ANYONE could walk up to any AMC parts counter and pay the $550 (or whatever the over the counter price was) to buy the crossram as Group 19 or dealer installed part so they were on far more than just 53 cars. heck, I've put them on 6 cars myself and not one of those cars was an SS AMX.

If anyone wants to put their hard earned cash on the line and make some new panels I will undoubtedly be a very good customer for their product. And by all means I hope someone else is willing to step up to the plate and make it happen and also hope that they make a ton of money doing it.

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Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: kirkwood
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 11:21am
One of the biggest muscle car repro body panel companies is owned by a longtime, deditaced AMC guy. I've talked to him about it, and if he can't make it work, no one can.

I also don't see the issues with metal that you see. We have good patch panels (rarely does an entire quarter panel get replaced), and some other structural metal is available in the aftermarket. I am pretty sure I could pick up a phone and have good doors, fenders a hood, etc for an AMX on their way today - there are probably for sale ads on this site for them right now. A cross-ram would be a little tougher to find today, and has always been a rare and desirable piece.

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AMO Newsletter Editor


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 11:27am
Originally posted by amx39068 amx39068 wrote:

All I can go by is the intense demand and absurd prices paid for any crossram that comes available. Also bear in mind that ANYONE could walk up to any AMC parts counter and pay the $550 (or whatever the over the counter price was) to buy the crossram as Group 19 or dealer installed part so they were on far more than just 53 cars. heck, I've put them on 6 cars myself and not one of those cars was an SS AMX.

If anyone wants to put their hard earned cash on the line and make some new panels I will undoubtedly be a very good customer for their product. And by all means I hope someone else is willing to step up to the plate and make it happen and also hope that they make a ton of money doing it.


OK so you have put crossrams on 6 cars out of how many that you have done over???? How many cars have you worked on that have needed body work that would have been easier to just bolt on a brand new panel???? I bet it is a LOT more than 6.    Now imagine HUNDREDS of AMX's/Javelins in this country and elsewhere just sitting in gargages or under covers as projects, unfinished, that all they would need to be roadworthy again is brand new body parts reproduced.
   Now ask yourself how many of those same people are wating for crossrams. Of course there are people that would buy crossram intakes..but honestly it would only be supplying a small segment of an already small market. Body parts would be selling to a MUCH larger segment of the AMX Javlein market and be sustainable for much longer....as the need for the parts grows each and every year as cars..even cars that have been restored already need to have panels done over or replaced from age or accidents.

Crossrams by comparison are just a novelty. I would be thrilled to see them reproduced....but I dont think they would sell anywhere near the scale that body parts will.

The market for body parts is MUCH bigger....and it's definately needed NOW.

There are easily 10-20 AMX's and Javelins in each state...that could use all new body panels...and that is probably being conservative. Could even 100 crossrams be sold???


Posted By: 17tamx
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 11:39am
Our cars are special to us because we don't see them at every turn while attending the local car functions accross this country. If fact we never saw our beloved cars in any great numbers when they were still brand new cars. A practical business model just can not be made for reproducing front fenders for Javelins and AMX's. The tooling would have to be created for six different stampings to cover 68 to 74in both Right & left sides. At a cheap price of $15,000 per tooling x 6 = $90,0000. If you sold each fender for $800 you would have to sell at least 225 fenders just to cover the tooling, steel and labor. What about a building to house the tooling, steel and labor? I would guess that at least 500 fenders would have to be sold to really make this work. Are there 250 cars out there just waiting for repo front fenders so they can be restored? I think not! I think that the 250 plus cars out there waiting to be restored are waiting for about $20,000 in extra cash for each owner so they can retore the car.
I would guess that there could be a better return on investment for any AMC V8 part then a sheetmetal part. I would guess that there could be a better return on investment for an Edelbrock RPM Airgap intake manifold for the AMC 250/287/327 V8. I am not going to hold my breath waiting for repo major sheetmetal parts for our AMC's. The math just doesn't work. It most likely never will. The best use of our money is to keep buying up the cars we want when we find them and not feel bad when we cut them up to save our keepers. We can't save them all so we should continue doing what we can and spend our money on the repo parts that make good business cents. When we all die, who is going to really care anyway?     WE CAN'T SAVE ALL OF THEM!


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Kirk P. Fletcher
70 AMX BBG w/Shadow 390 4sp
71 SC360 Wild Plum Ram Air 4sp
67 Rogue Convert 343 4sp
66 Rogue Hardtop 290 Auto
66 440 Convert 232 Auto


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 11:46am
Originally posted by 17tamx 17tamx wrote:



Our cars are special to us because we don't see them at every turn while attending the local car functions accross this country. If fact we never saw our beloved cars in any great numbers when they were still brand new cars. A practical business model just can not be made for reproducing front fenders for Javelins and AMX's. The tooling would have to be created for six different stampings to cover 68 to 74in both Right & left sides. At a cheap price of $15,000 per tooling x 6 = $90,0000. If you sold each fender for $800 you would have to sell at least 225 fenders just to cover the tooling, steel and labor. What about a building to house the tooling, steel and labor? I would guess that at least 500 fenders would have to be sold to really make this work. Are there 250 cars out there just waiting for repo front fenders so they can be restored? I think not! I think that the 250 plus cars out there waiting to be restored are waiting for about $20,000 in extra cash for each owner so they can retore the car.
I would guess that there could be a better return on investment for any AMC V8 part then a sheetmetal part. I would guess that there could be a better return on investment for an Edelbrock RPM Airgap intake manifold for the AMC 250/287/327 V8. I am not going to hold my breath waiting for repo major sheetmetal parts for our AMC's. The math just doesn't work. It most likely never will. The best use of our money is to keep buying up the cars we want when we find them and not feel bad when we cut them up to save our keepers. We can't save them all so we should continue doing what we can and spend our money on the repo parts that make good business cents. When we all die, who is going to really care anyway?     WE CAN'T SAVE ALL OF THEM!


So it makes more sense and benefits the AMX/Javelin restoration market to invest time and money into an intake manifold instead of body parts, while the fact is that the body parts are falling apart around the engines in these cars?? LOL.

Your analysis may have been true 15 years ago, before there were major companies that have the facilities and equipment to make these parts now and are making repro parts in large quantities now. In 2012 These companies are WAY past the points you are bringing up.....obviously these companies wouldnt have started by producing AMC parts....but they can DEFINATELY do it now and make profit.

These manufactureres are very profitable NOW, and could definately make profits on reproducing AMC parts if approached and supplied NOS pieces to use. The reason they arent doing it is because people are assuming they wont do it....if the AMC market started hounding one of these companies like they did edelbrock to make new intakes and heads....I pretty much gaurantee that we would start seeing new fenders doors hoods and quarters in 2-3 years.


Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 11:53am
So when can I get my cross ram? I am going to need 2 when you have them ready ;)


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 12:27pm
I'll take a crossram as well! Heck! Assuming it doesnt cost more than $500
but FIRST I am willing to spend more on new fenders, and or rear quarters so my car is actually road worthy and solid before I put crossram dual quads under the hood!


Posted By: Hurst390
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Plan B Plan B wrote:

So when can I get my cross ram? I am going to need 2 when you have them ready ;)
call edelbrock...they are the ones that are looking into reproducing them...along with another new intake that should actually perform well instead of just look good...this info comes from Jeff Lee that claims to be the person that got them interested in building a new manifold...

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SC/Hurst Rambler

11.62 120

100% Street Legal


Posted By: 17tamx
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 12:44pm

I for one don't want ALL of the AMX's & Javelins restored.

When you look at supply and demand the only thing that counts is demand. Increasing the supply will not increase the demand. But it will lower the value because there will be more to choose from. If the value of our cars go down it won't make any sense to spend $20,000 restoring them.

Look at the value of the 64 1/2 to 66 Mustangs. They made a million of them during the first 2 1/2 years of production. You can build one from a catalog for about $27,000 but they are still only worth about $17,000.

The company’s manufacturing these Mustang repo parts can earn a return on investment only because Ford made a million of them. The Demand is high now because there are so many adults who want to relive their childhoods. But because the supply of old mustangs is so high the value is also so low.

Our AMC Hobby is just fine with patch panels. Our AMC Vendors are smart enough to know that the Math just doesn't work for reproducing Fenders, Hoods, Doors and Full Quarter Panels.

348amx, if you think you know how to make the math work with the current 2012 manufacturing technology that you are so positive will work, then I say “GO FOR IT.”

It is quite clear that Dan Curtis will not be spending any of his resources to make it happen for you. I think it is time to face the facts that reproduction fenders will never be available to us for our cars.

Let’s get this thread grounded back to ideas that can actually be done and away from flights of fantasy.



-------------
Kirk P. Fletcher
70 AMX BBG w/Shadow 390 4sp
71 SC360 Wild Plum Ram Air 4sp
67 Rogue Convert 343 4sp
66 Rogue Hardtop 290 Auto
66 440 Convert 232 Auto


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by 17tamx 17tamx wrote:

<span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-: EN;' lang="EN">I for one don't want ALL of the AMX's & Javelins
restored. <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></span>

<font size="3" face="Times New Roman">

<span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-: EN;' lang="EN">When you look at supply and demand the only thing that
counts is demand. Increasing the supply will not increase the demand. But it
will lower the value because there will be more to choose from. If the value of
our cars go down it won't make any sense to spend $20,000 restoring them. <o:p></o:p></span>

<font size="3" face="Times New Roman">

<span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-: EN;' lang="EN">Look at the value of the 64 1/2 to 66 Mustangs. They made
a million of them during the first 2 1/2 years of production. You can build one
from a catalog for about $27,000 but they are still only worth about $17,000.<o:p></o:p></span>

<font size="3" face="Times New Roman">

<span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-: EN;' lang="EN">The company’s manufacturing these Mustang repo parts can
earn a return on investment only because Ford made a million of them. The
Demand is high now because there are so many adults who want to relive their
childhoods. But because the supply of old mustangs is so high the value is also
so low.<o:p></o:p></span>

<font size="3" face="Times New Roman">

<span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-: EN;' lang="EN">Our AMC Hobby is just fine with patch panels. Our AMC Vendors
are smart enough to know that the Math just doesn't work for reproducing
Fenders, Hoods, Doors and Full Quarter Panels.<o:p></o:p></span>

<font size="3" face="Times New Roman">

<span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-: EN;' lang="EN">348amx,
if you think you know how to make the math work with the current 2012
manufacturing technology that you are so positive will work, then I say “GO FOR
IT.”<o:p></o:p></span>

<span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-: EN;' lang="EN">It is
quite clear that Dan Curtis will not be spending any of his resources to make
it happen for you. I think it is time to face the facts that reproduction
fenders will never be available to us for our cars. <o:p></o:p></span>

<font size="3" face="Times New Roman">

<span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-: EN;' lang="EN">Let’s
get this thread grounded back to ideas that can actually be done and away from flights
of fantasy.<o:p></o:p></span>

<font size="3" face="Times New Roman">



I am agreeing there is a market for intake manifolds, but there is also a larger market for body parts.

It would not make the value of AMX's or Javelins go down, people arent restoring the hundreds that are out there now that need body parts because it is too expensive to have fabrication work done on panels that there arent replacements for.   It would be way more cost effective to replace a rear quarter with a repro'd lower 1/2 in one piece rather than to have to build one and weld together 3 patch peices that are available today to do the same thing wich is more time consuming/labor intensive and therefore more expensive.


Posted By: kirkwood
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by 348AMX 348AMX wrote:

[QUOTE=348amx] These manufactureres are very profitable NOW, and could definately make profits on reproducing AMC parts if approached and supplied NOS pieces to use. The reason they arent doing it is because people are assuming they wont do it....if the AMC market started hounding one of these companies like they did edelbrock to make new intakes and heads....I pretty much gaurantee that we would start seeing new fenders doors hoods and quarters in 2-3 years.


Did you read my earlier post?

Also, as most who have use NOS panels can testify, NOS pieces aren't the best choice. They rarely fit well - I even put an NOS fender on once and the fit was so poor that I ended up repairing a used one. The current repro sheet metal companies don't even use NOS pieces for their reproductions, they like to use rust free stock sheet metal that actually fits and gives them a good pattern. NOS pieces are typically last run parts that were stamped on the worn out dies.

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AMO Newsletter Editor


Posted By: 17tamx
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 1:10pm
I am done with this post. Not worth the time debating the Logic of Fantasy.
 


-------------
Kirk P. Fletcher
70 AMX BBG w/Shadow 390 4sp
71 SC360 Wild Plum Ram Air 4sp
67 Rogue Convert 343 4sp
66 Rogue Hardtop 290 Auto
66 440 Convert 232 Auto


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 1:18pm
We've covered the NOS body parts before - even the few I've worked with were not exactly a joy to make fit right. I'm not just talking AMC, either...........

I have used the patch panels, I was VERY VERY impressed with the fit and gauge of the material. It was no less than perfect.

We're also comparing manifolds that fit ANY AMC V8, ALL sizes of V8 engine produced by AMC for AMC cars and Jeeps from 1970 up through their demise and the end of the run in the Jeeps - thousands and thousands, and the demand from Jeep people............ intakes -  they are a 'universal' part, and a part that folks would pay for....
face it - some of the race folks pay more for engine parts than you are willing to pay for a whole car.
Manifolds, even high-end expensive ones will be a good selling part due to the universal nature and the demand of racers (or collectors) who are willing to put out the cash for performance parts.
A fender will fit how many cars? Then there's a left and right? And there's differences between years - a fender for a 1969 AMX will fit exactly how many different models of AMC over how many years?
I could even make a pre-70 intake fit a post 70 engine... try that with a fender - make a left fender for a 68 AMX fit the right side of a 1970 Javelin.

>>..if the AMC market started hounding one of these companies like they did edelbrock to make new intakes and heads....I pretty much gaurantee that we would start seeing new fenders doors hoods and quarters in 2-3 years.<<

I disagree, sorry - IMO that's your desire for the parts and heart talking, not logic. I guarantee the opposite.
Besides, the process for casting isn't comparable at all to the making of sheet metal parts.  Growing up in a town with two major foundries, and working in the classes I took many years ago - and my father working in a plant where they DID make large parts out of sheet steel, they are different industries completely.



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Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 3:18pm
Good Lord! I'm done. I will look forward to the reproduction of crossram intakes...so that over the next 10 years I can easily purchase one and throw under the hood of An AMX or Javelin with a completely rusted out body! Awesome!

Anyway I give it 3-5 years tops before we do in fact see full fenders doors hoods and quarters


Posted By: amx39068
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by Hurst390 Hurst390 wrote:


call edelbrock...they are the ones that are looking into reproducing them...along with another new intake that should actually perform well instead of just look good...this info comes from Jeff Lee that claims to be the person that got them interested in building a new manifold...


Well I guess somebody should let Edlebrock know of him making them interested as both Edlebrock and the actual person working with them seem to be unaware of his gallant efforts.

Back to the real world - we will have an update on when they will be available and what the final cost will be within the next couple of weeks. We are also looking into making the corner dams as an optional add on for the production run.


-------------
Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 6:42pm
Heres a dyno video of an AMC Crossram in action. Very cool! Really hoping this would be in the 500-600 $ range since new Torkers are only $260, from summit racing.   Then again the Air Gap is a potent little intake too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Zcjw9TJa0



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