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'69 Karmann Javelin

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Topic: '69 Karmann Javelin
Posted By: Manuel
Subject: '69 Karmann Javelin
Date Posted: Mar/21/2011 at 4:27pm
Hi there!

I'm Manuel. I'm 19 years old and live in the Netherlands. I don't know if there are more people from Europe (or the Netherlands) on this forum, but after a few months of watching on this forum, I thought: It's time to register an account and post the project I'm working on, together with my old man.

We're restoring a 1969 AMC Javelin 343 SST Karmann (or 79-K). I haven't seen one on this forum so maybe it is a bit of an unknown car here. 
Only 281 79-K's are produced and 4 of them are still driving around in my country.

Here are some picture of ours: 






My dad bought the car in the same state as shown on the pictures. 
We already have the majority of the body panels, but we need some help with other parts. Parts are very hard to get for this car (as you probably already know), especially in our country. Pretty much everything needs to be delivered from overseas.

We're not planning to work on this car soon (because my dad hasn't much time on his hands), but we first want to get the engine running and the brakes working.


-------------
1969 Javelin SST 79-K, 343ci.



Replies:
Posted By: JavelinRob
Date Posted: Mar/21/2011 at 5:22pm
looks fairly rust free , do you have all the glass for the car , doors  and chrome trim , interior etc... looks like mine when I got it

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1970 sst 421 shivvy
1970 amx 390 4spd go pack


Posted By: Jeepnofear
Date Posted: Mar/21/2011 at 7:03pm
So what's the difference between a Karmann and a regular Javelin?

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1969 Javelin SST 390 Auto
3 FSJ Cherokees


Posted By: PlazinJavelin
Date Posted: Mar/21/2011 at 8:06pm

Very cool, welcome.

http://www.american-motors.de/en/karmann/ - http://www.american-motors.de/en/karmann/

"Javelin parts were delivered from the U.S. and assembled in Rheine."



-------------
PlazinJavelin
Marlin Wannabe




Posted By: RSX 401
Date Posted: Mar/21/2011 at 9:58pm
First of all.....welcome to the AMC Forum.
 
Glad to see you will have a father and son project. Take your time and remeber, no matter how minor the work is, it's still progress.
 
Please keep the photos coming.


-------------
I'll follow these lines a little ways more,

Until I can find what I'm looking for.

With the pedal to the metal,

I'm gaining my speed.

Riding down low in my AMC.....


Posted By: Tim
Date Posted: Mar/23/2011 at 4:33pm
Hi,
 
I am also located in the Netherlands, and also busy with the restauration of a 79k Karmann. Great car to work on. 40 years, but all bolts just come loose. That different with today's cars....
 
Engine runs like a charm... After all these years....
 
What a car!!! Why did they stop making these??!!???
 
 
You are 1 of the 9 Karmann javelins I have seen on the net.... Thet are quite rare since only 281 are built in germany. Did you know we also have a dutch AMC club??


-------------
Tim


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Mar/25/2011 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by JavelinRob JavelinRob wrote:

looks fairly rust free , do you have all the glass for the car , doors  and chrome trim , interior etc... looks like mine when I got it

Yes, we have the glass, chrome trim, all the bodywork, etc. The interior is 90% complete also. We only need some engine-, transmission-, chassis- and brake-parts.
We need a new radiator and a few things that have to do with the braking. So I'm going to search for that first.

Originally posted by Jeepnofear Jeepnofear wrote:

So what's the difference between a Karmann and a regular Javelin?

The Karmann's are built in de Karmann factory in Germany. They have "km/h" speedometers, instead of "mph". And also the lights are European. And some other minor stuff.

Originally posted by Tim Tim wrote:

Hi,
 
I am also located in the Netherlands, and also busy with the restauration of a 79k Karmann. Great car to work on. 40 years, but all bolts just come loose. That different with today's cars....
 
Engine runs like a charm... After all these years....
 
What a car!!! Why did they stop making these??!!???
 
 
You are 1 of the 9 Karmann javelins I have seen on the net.... Thet are quite rare since only 281 are built in germany. Did you know we also have a dutch AMC club??

You are the owner of the '70 Javelin SST 290, right? I saw it on http://www.amcjavelin.nl
Dave (the webmaster), has spoken to me via email already. Our car should be on that site soon.



-------------
1969 Javelin SST 79-K, 343ci.


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Jul/12/2011 at 3:21pm
Sorry for my inactivity on this forum. I had a lot on my mind in the last few months.
We also  haven't got much time to work on this car right now, but that will change in the near future.
But I have a small update to share with you guys, because we sent the busted radiator to a radiator expert. It'll be as good new and ready to install by next week.


-------------
1969 Javelin SST 79-K, 343ci.


Posted By: ramblerman390
Date Posted: Jul/12/2011 at 9:46pm
so far so good  think's for pic Approve

-------------
want to go fast... get an AMC!


Posted By: SST343
Date Posted: Jul/12/2011 at 11:19pm
Manuel - Very interesting project. Please continue to update us on your progress.

Good luck.


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Jul/13/2011 at 9:19am
The main reason Karman stopped producing (well, assembling) the Javelin (and importing a few other AMCs IIRC) was due to a change in licensing and taxing laws in Germany/across Europe. Large engines (and even the 290 at around 5.0L was considered "large" in Europe) were heavily taxed, so interest dropped. Even the 3.8L (232) six would have had a premium tax on it (after 1970 at least), and wouldn't have been much of a performer in the Javelin. It would have been more than adequate though, especially with a stick. The 343 was heavily taxed after 1970. I don't think the 290 would keep up with the high performance German cars even though they had smaller engines (Mercedes had the 4.5L OHC V-8, not sure what others were running).  I bet of the 281 made most were 343 powered, but that's just a guess.


-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: maximus7001
Date Posted: Jul/15/2011 at 1:27am
Do the 69 Karman models have upper ball joints?

-------------
1968 Javelin SST

1997 GMC Safari AWD

2001 Daewoo Nubira SX (Winnipeg only model)

1997 Honda Accord EX (Canadian Model)

Winnipeg, home of the Jets.


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Jul/15/2011 at 10:13am
Nope. Same as other 69 AMCs. Was there a few 70 Karman Javelins? If so, I wouldn't be surprised if they were 69 models assembled and titled as 70s, and have trunnions also. 

-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Jul/15/2011 at 11:59am
Our Javelin is officially registered as a 1970, but it is a 1969 model.
Ours doesn't have upper ball joints.


-------------
1969 Javelin SST 79-K, 343ci.


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Jul/16/2011 at 9:59am
The radiator came in yesterday, so today we were sanding the vent cover. 
We are thinking of buying a blast cabinet, because there are still a whole lot of parts that need to be rust free.

The new radiator:

The vent cover:

Not the best photo's ever, but you know what I mean Wink


-------------
1969 Javelin SST 79-K, 343ci.


Posted By: Teamamc
Date Posted: Dec/06/2011 at 11:11pm
Do you know of any one with extra emblems.
Even damaged ones I can restore.  a picture of the emblems and sill plates would be nice.
The  Car I am looking at buying does not have the emblems anymore.
If I understand it correctly, their was an emblem mounted below the  Javelin emblem on the rear sail panel,  and the cars had  special sill plates.
The other differences were the wiring and battery tray run down the right side of the engine compartment on the 6 cylinder car.
Also the car was equipped with a 258 2bbl engine in place of the 232 which the US Javelins came with.
Should have clear front marker lenses as well.
Do you know of any other differences.
 
Thanks
 
 


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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Feb/28/2012 at 2:12am
Originally posted by Teamamc Teamamc wrote:

Do you know of any one with extra emblems.
Even damaged ones I can restore.  a picture of the emblems and sill plates would be nice.
The  Car I am looking at buying does not have the emblems anymore.
If I understand it correctly, their was an emblem mounted below the  Javelin emblem on the rear sail panel,  and the cars had  special sill plates.
The other differences were the wiring and battery tray run down the right side of the engine compartment on the 6 cylinder car.
Also the car was equipped with a 258 2bbl engine in place of the 232 which the US Javelins came with.
Should have clear front marker lenses as well.
Do you know of any other differences.
 
Thanks
 
 


Hey,

Sorry for the late response.

It's good to see another Karmann Javelin is being restored. There are not many of 'em left.
I know a Dutch guy who may have some emblems, but I'm not sure.
Our Karmann still has all the emblems as far as I know. And it has orange front marker lenses.


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Feb/28/2012 at 2:19am
A few days ago, I made a quick Photoshop of how the car should be when it's finished.



Our goal is to make a Pro Touring / G-Machine kind of Javelin.
We don't have the money to add Twin Turbo's, transmission and engine conversions, etc.
Basically it only has the looks of a Pro Touring muscle car. All the engine and transmission parts will mostly be staying original.

What do you think? :)


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Feb/28/2012 at 5:10am
Looks good!

-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: JavelinRob
Date Posted: Feb/28/2012 at 8:49am
hi yes I like it alot , same paint color too

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1970 sst 421 shivvy
1970 amx 390 4spd go pack


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Apr/06/2012 at 5:47am
Thanks guys :D

Update:

The new wheels arrived today!





We need some wheel spacers in order to get the fitment right. On this photo you can see that I need atleast 50mm spacers.



Is that even safe to drive, 50mm?
I saw on a JEEP-forum that there are some cars that have 60mm spacers, used offroad. But can I safely use 50mm spacers?


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/06/2012 at 9:04am
Yes. As long as the spacers are properly made they are safe. 

-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: JavelinRob
Date Posted: Apr/06/2012 at 5:22pm
BILLET ALUMINUM ADAPTERS 2.0 inches thick are available 4.5 x4.5
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-2-5x4-5-5-x-4-5-Wheel-Adapters-Ford-Explorer-Sport-Trac-2-0-Spacers-/330713199013?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item4d000af1a5" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-2-5x4-5-5-x-4-5-Wheel-Adapters-Ford-Explorer-Sport-Trac-2-0-Spacers-/330713199013?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item4d000af1a5


-------------
1970 sst 421 shivvy
1970 amx 390 4spd go pack


Posted By: JavelinRob
Date Posted: Apr/06/2012 at 5:23pm
I used 1.5 inch adapters with my 6 inch back space mustang bullit rims


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1970 sst 421 shivvy
1970 amx 390 4spd go pack


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Apr/06/2012 at 8:09pm
Rob, do you have a photo of your spacers/rims? Smile
Oh, and thanks for the eBay link. I was searching already but I could only find the spacers in a Chinese webstore that refused to ship overseas.


I also heard a lot of stories about wheel spacers ripping the wheel bearings apart? Is it really that bad or are they exaggerating?




Posted By: JavelinRob
Date Posted: Apr/07/2012 at 7:15am
the rims I bought had 6 inch back space , thats inside mounting face to out side lip, stock is 4 to 41/2 , I can send you some pics I need am email address , as far as ripping out bearings well will have to be the test mules , get some good wheel bearing grease and repack bearings , I think there fine I wouldn;t road race with them or drag race but everyday driving

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1970 sst 421 shivvy
1970 amx 390 4spd go pack


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Apr/07/2012 at 10:15am
Oh, ok.
Well, I'm not planning to race with it. Just cruisin' around and go to meetings etc.

My email is mjcompaan [at] gmail.com.


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Apr/08/2012 at 6:30pm
Update:

Yesterday I was finished with a better Photoshop-artwork of the car:

It's a small image, if you want to view the high resolution image, just ask. ;)
Enjoy!


Posted By: JavelinRob
Date Posted: Apr/08/2012 at 6:57pm
very nice I like the rendering try and get the same stance , and it will be very cool looking protour look

-------------
1970 sst 421 shivvy
1970 amx 390 4spd go pack


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Apr/21/2012 at 12:16pm
The wheel spacers arrived today from Lugs 'n stuff over at Holland, MI.
I immediately mounted them on the car tot test if the wheels would fit.

The spacers:





The wheel fitment:



It could use a lowering kit, but that's a future plan.



9 mm clearance:












Posted By: Scrapdaddy Sr.
Date Posted: Apr/23/2012 at 9:23am
The wheel spacers will make the steering feel very different. I know from experience with the Hornet X running a similar wheel set up using Mustang Bullet wheels. Takes getting used to. Also watch out for clearance issues on the front turning radius of the rims and tires. Suggestion only: add a little "lock tight" to the wheel studs to keep the "Spacer"mounting lugs from backing off. With all the pressure from the wheel "center" moved out away from the Hub can have a tendency to walk the lugs loose. I solved this issue with "lock tight" on the threads of the lugs. ***CAUTION*** lock tight makes it really had to get the lugs back off though. 

I like where you are going with this build! Really cool project to watch develop. 


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/23/2012 at 11:27am
I've got my wheels spaced out but never noticed a different feel to the steering. Don't have them spaced out but about 3/4" on each side on the front though, about half what you have on the Karmann.  Just to make it clear, put the thread locking compound (Lock-Tite is a name brand in the US -- that's why Scrap put it in quotes) only on the original hub studs, not on the studs that hold the wheel to the spacer. 

-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: 0069X
Date Posted: Apr/23/2012 at 2:57pm
Hi Manuel, I've been watching your thread since the beginning and I've got to say your car looks like it's going to come out looking really nice.
I purchased a 69 AMX brand new when I was your age, and I still have it.
There are just a few comments I'd like to make about your project.
The very first modification I made to my AMX was to install some chrome Crager S/S mag wheels, but to do so I had to install a spacer so the spokes in the wheel would clear the brake calipers. I think they were only 3/8" thick (certainly no more than 1/2"). After driving on them for about 5000 miles, the brake pads wound up wearing out totally uneven. I had to remove the spacers, install new brake pads and have the rotors turned. Fortunately I came across a set of 15x7" Chrome Magnum 500's (off a Boss 302 Mustang) that worked out perfectly.
My point is, I would be very cautious about installing spacers that are too thick. I've heard horror stories of ruined ball joints if wheels are spaced out too far. Of course you have trunions, but what kills ball joints, would probably play havoc with a trunion.
I noticed you have a fondness for spoilers, I too installed a Mark D. rear spoiler on my AMX as soon as they became available. Just a small detail, but the roof spoiler and the Mark D. spoiler were not designed to work together. Both accomplish the same function (to prevent high speed lift). I don't think using both would ever cause you any aerodynamic problems while on the Autobahn, I just think one spoiler negates the need for the other one. But if you like the way it looks, then that's all that really matters.
Good Luck with your plans. I love the 70's style side stripe.


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/23/2012 at 6:58pm
The biggest problem with spacers is that they change the leverage on the steering components. Most of the people with problems such as worn ball joints and such space the wheels out so the tire stick way out. Remember that fad? When you use a deep offset wheel the spacer doesn't have as much of a negative effect. The center of the wheel is pushed out, the spacer is just moving the center of the wheel back where it should be in this case. Not always, but for using a deep wheel on an older car that's the case.

I've had some uneven wear on brake pads, but wouldn't think the spacer would be the cause. Could be, but everything else on my front end is solid with no unusual wear and I've put about 50K miles on it with the wheels spaced out about 3/4" (5/8" spacer behind spindles, 1/8" spacer between wheel and hub). Bendix sliding calipers can easily wear unevenly, it's just the nature of the beast! Pin type Kelsey-Hayes or GM calipers fare a bit better.


-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: OzJavelin2
Date Posted: Apr/24/2012 at 1:14am
Interesting that they bothered to convert the speedos to KM/H?  In Australia AMI (Australian Motor Industries) assembled CKD kits for Javelins into right-hand-drive .. but didn't bother with things like converting the wipers to sweep in the other direction, putting the auto sector markings on the "other" side, etc, etc.  The KM/H must have been a real compliance issue?


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Jul/08/2012 at 4:49pm
Thanks :)

I don't see great problems in having the spacer installed. I'm sure you're right about everything, but for the amount of miles I'm going to drive in it I think it's not that bad.
I'm going to use it to cruise on sundays and going to local meetings. Not for driving 120 mp/h on the German Autobahn. ;) Well, maybe a single time for getting an idea of how fast it really goes, haha..

And the spoilers are just for the looks, not for aerodynamics. I just like the way it looks. :)


Edit: Oh, and I don't think the Loc-Tite is such a good idea. The APK (M.O.T. in the US) doesn't accept wheelspacers. So I have to disassamble the spacers every year.


Posted By: shootist
Date Posted: Jul/08/2012 at 9:13pm
Really loving the car Manuel. Good luck and thanks for educating me on the karmann javelin. I had no idea such an animal ever existed. Very cool!


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Jul/09/2012 at 5:01pm
Thank you!

Update:
We cleaned the garage today, so I took some random photo's:



You can clearly see that it needs a lowering kit. Any idea where I can get such a kit? And do you have some pictures of Javelins with a lowering kit so I can get an idea?


And here's a photo of "stance". Left side is with the spacers installed:




Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Jul/09/2012 at 5:20pm
You need to wait until you get it together before you start lowering. You're going to add a little weight all around, though not much. Has it been raised? I don't know how long the stock shackles should be, but someone here will know. Measure from center of bolt to center of bolt though.  It's easy to lower the rear with spacers between the spring and axle. The front will be a little harder. I still think it's wise to get everything together before you determine how much to lower it though. 

-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Jul/09/2012 at 7:56pm
Yeah, lowering the car is one of the last things I'll do, but I am just asking in advance. Smile



Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Nov/10/2012 at 10:17pm
Yesterday we fired up the engine for the first time after sitting for 4 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMOh0LS_jlQ

We will have a testdrive with it very soon! Maybe in the next few weeks already.Smile


Posted By: 348AMX
Date Posted: Nov/11/2012 at 12:54am
Sounds strong!


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: Dec/22/2012 at 7:25am
Here's a new video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m25fK3t4sls

We drove with the car last week. We tested the brakes, colling system, throttle, etc.
We need to tune it a little to let it run properly, but everythings works well.


Posted By: autotraveler
Date Posted: Mar/25/2014 at 6:01pm
Several years ago on a visit to Holland, I met with a group of AMC enthusiasts, one of which was driving a red, 1969 AMC Javelin 79-K. I would like, if possible, to reconnect with him as well as any other 79-K owners as I am writing a story for the French magazine, Retroviseur. If you know the owner of the red 79-K or any other Karmann-built Javelins, please E-mail me at richtruesdell@gmail.com.

To help identify the car, here's two photos I took on that trip.





Although I've searched, I could not find any online registry of 79-K Karmann-built Javelins. If there is one, can someone E-mail me the URL address at richtruesdell@gmail.com?

I have a 1 May, 2014 deadline to submit my materials so I would like very much to connect with as many Javelin 79-K owners as possible, as soon as I can. After the story runs in Retroviseur, I plan to run the story in my own classic car magazine, Automotive Traveler's Classic Car, available on Amazon websites worldwide, including the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

Best wishes,

Richard Truesdell
Editorial Director, Automotive Traveler's Classic Car
Contributing Editor, Retroviseur









Posted By: 70 Donohue 390
Date Posted: Mar/25/2014 at 8:23pm
Welcome aboard Rich! SirDigger here on the Forum posted this link:

http://www.american-motors.de/de/karmann/

Hope to see you at the SoCalAMX show 5-31-14

Ron




-------------
67 Rogue 290 Convert

70 BBO 390 5 Speed Javelin-under construction


Posted By: SirDigger
Date Posted: Mar/26/2014 at 1:43am
I tried to contact the German AMC Page last year, but nobody responded.

You may try the Dutch AMC Clubs Facebook page
http://nl-nl.facebook.com/pages/Dutch-AMC-Javelin-Club/251260064888909" rel="nofollow - http://nl-nl.facebook.com/pages/Dutch-AMC-Javelin-Club/251260064888909

Other Information may be provided by the Rambler&AMC Museum in Berlikum (they didnt respond too)
try yoour Luck.

http://www.rambler-amc-museum.nl/" rel="nofollow - http://www.rambler-amc-museum.nl/




-------------
SirDigger&his german Friends are looking for Parts http://theamcforum.com/forum/the-german-amc-forum-ambassadorsirdigger-needs_topic83570.html
1970 Javelin SST 304
1970 Javelin SST 360


Posted By: kirkwood
Date Posted: Mar/26/2014 at 5:04am
The owner of the green 70 amx is a member here- does anyone recall his username?

-------------
AMO Newsletter Editor


Posted By: autotraveler
Date Posted: Mar/26/2014 at 5:25am
I'm already in touch with Peter with the green '70 AMX. I searched through old E-mails and found his E-mail address.

Lots of info already in with the possibility of nine surviving cars.

I'll keep everyone here posted but if anyone has info, especially a high-res scan of the brochure, please get in touch with me.

Thanks,

Rich


Posted By: SirDigger
Date Posted: Mar/26/2014 at 7:39am
The owner of the Red Karman Javelin, is a Guy called Charles Westhoff.
He submitted pictures of that specific car to the German AMC Page too.

Here is his Facebook http://www.facebook.com/charles.westhoff" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/charles.westhoff


I had contact to a scotsmann 2 years ago, who had a Karman Javelin in a SheepShed.. bad condition and way to expensive.




-------------
SirDigger&his german Friends are looking for Parts http://theamcforum.com/forum/the-german-amc-forum-ambassadorsirdigger-needs_topic83570.html
1970 Javelin SST 304
1970 Javelin SST 360


Posted By: autotraveler
Date Posted: Mar/26/2014 at 9:14am
Thanks SirDigger. I've already sent him a Facebook friends request.

Does anyone know if there are any Karmann Javelins here in the US?

Best,

Richard Truesdell


Posted By: Jan Phersson
Date Posted: Dec/13/2014 at 7:51am
Manuel, how do I identify a Karmann built Javelin?


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Dec/13/2014 at 7:28pm
There is a Karman ID tag on it somewhere... I think it's on the door above the AMC tag. 

-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: Marca
Date Posted: Oct/09/2021 at 5:08pm
Bonjour à tous, je m'appelle Sylvain et j'habite en France. 
Je suis tombé sur votre discussion car je restaure depuis 1 an une Javelin Karmann de 69.
Je suis également à la recherche d'informations sur cette voiture car c'est difficile à trouver...



Posted By: bigbad69
Date Posted: Oct/09/2021 at 9:01pm
Hello everyone, my name is Sylvain and I live in France.
I came across your discussion because I have been restoring a 69 Javelin Karmann for 1 year.
I am also looking for information on this car because it is difficult to find

Welcome to the forum Sylvain, and congratulations on your Karmann Javelin. Unfortunately, you will find this community very lacking in French comprehension. There are a few though. If you are able to converse in English, you will get more help.


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69 Javelin SST BBO 390 T10


Posted By: Marca
Date Posted: Oct/10/2021 at 1:43am
Ok, now I'll translate my texts into English!


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Oct/10/2021 at 9:17pm
There isn't much to tell. They were built in 68 and 69 by Karmann from parts imported from the US. Some parts ere sourced locally, like tires and such, maybe interior upholstery. Only a few options were allowed. European taxation laws changed in 69 or 70, making them hard sells due mainly to engine size.


-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: Marca
Date Posted: Oct/23/2021 at 5:38am
Do you know what the VIN number is for the Karmann ?
Mine is MK20332?


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Oct/24/2021 at 10:39am
Karmann assigned their own VIN numbers (more accurately serial numbers). I have no information on how they were assigned.


-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: Tobias
Date Posted: Nov/09/2021 at 6:08am
Originally posted by Marca Marca wrote:

Do you know what the VIN number is for the Karmann ?
Mine is MK20332?

Hi Marca!

Last weekend I aquired Tim's 79-K (see page 1 of this thread). The car has serial number MK20180 and was first registered on 1970-06-19. (Edit: The valve cover tag on the original 290-2V "H" code engine reads 109H18 which decodes to a production date of 1968-09-18.) As the serial number of your car is higher I would assume it was built later than mine. Do you know when it was registered first?

I also have a copy of the registration document for the 79-K with serial number TK-20221 (Karmann changed the letters at some point) and engine number Z 0026. That car was registered first on 1969-05-05. (Edit: The valve cover tag on the engine reads 110Z26 which decodes to a production date of 1968-10-26.)
And I have a photo of the VIN plate of TK-20351 (engine number Z 0087); registration date unknown. This car was scraped for parts.

If we were able to get more data points maybe we can derive a (very) rough chronology of the production at Karmann.
Judging from the low production numbers, I guess the cars did not sell very well in the old world back in the day. I cannot imagine AMC expected to send only 281 CKD kits to Europe. Seems like a lot of effort.

Tobias


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/09/2021 at 6:38am
Look at the major differences in the cars marked TK and MK. Mainly look for engine type/size and transmission type. Difference could be year of manufacture -- MK being 1970, TK 1969. That's just a guess from the two examples shown though, could be manual/auto trans or different size engines.

AMC made CKD kits for Australia and others also. Of course the Aussie kits were RHD. It didn't take much to assemble the kits since they were already doing them for others. The Karmann operation stopped due to European tax law changes that heavily taxed larger engines. Even the 3.8L 232 fell into a high tax rate, and those who wanted an American pony car really wanted a V-8. Not enough Europeans wanting those that were willing to pay the high taxes to continue in-continent production. Note that the CKD kits didn't come with things like tires, belts, batteries, and even upholstery -- those were sourced locally.


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Frank Swygert


Posted By: Marca
Date Posted: Nov/10/2021 at 2:36pm
Hello !
Mine was first registered on 09/23/1969 and the number on the valve cover is 110H26.
It's a V8 290.
What do you think the H means?


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/11/2021 at 6:13am
The "Engine Day Build Code" decodes as follows:

First digit is year.
Year codes start with 1-9 for 1959-67, then repeat with 1-9 for 68-76 and 1-3 for 77-79.
In 1980 the code changed to be the last digit of the year and added using zeros, so a 1980 built engine has a zero, 81 a 1, etc.

Digits 2 and 3 are the month. 01 for January - 12 for December

Character 4 is the engine code. Codes changed some over the years, but H is a 290/2V from 66-69 (304 2V from 70-79). You have to know what sizes were made what years to properly decode this.

Digits 5 and 6 are the day the engine was assembled, 01 for first - 31 for 31st.

Note that the engine plant worked on a CALENDAR year basis, not model year! So an early production 69 will have a 68 coded engine. If the Engine Day Build Code is later than the model year or after August 31 of the model year it has been changed (new models generally started production in early September with August being mostly a transition time).


-------------
Frank Swygert



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