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model 20 answers

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Topic: model 20 answers
Posted By: 1970390amx
Subject: model 20 answers
Date Posted: Nov/01/2010 at 11:24pm
I was provided with this diff to tear down and discuss different topics about them. I have a few pictures from taking it apart, any interest in discussing it here? Kind of a wierd combo, open diff and 9 and 40 tooth count. Thats 4:44 to one gears.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box



Replies:
Posted By: 7Xpacemaker
Date Posted: Nov/02/2010 at 4:37am
Yes, I am always interested in learning. I have never done a rear and would like to see you do this. It would be most informative.

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C.J.

1981 AMC Concord
1977 AMC Hornet AMX
2001 Firebird Convertible LS1
1978 AMC Concord
1982 AMC Spirit GT
1974 AMC Hornet



Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Nov/02/2010 at 5:57am
R U going to go through the proper setup procedure for differentials? (the model 20 being really no different than any other in that regard)
Including the axle end-play settings, etc.?
Or just the inner differential? Pinion depth, preload, etc. etc.?

U can use these if you want..................




Use the spreader here to spread housing to set carrier in place with shims ->




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Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/02/2010 at 10:53pm
I intend to present as complete as possible rebuild on this axle. As in every rebuild there can be many ways to get to the same end, this is my way. I will use a 70 TSM for reference, crosschecking to a 72 TSM for errors. If anything is not clear ask questions. Any opinions are welcome.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/02/2010 at 11:01pm
Since no history is known about this differental a complete teardown to inspect is in order. The only thing I have noticed is that it has one tooth broken on a spider gear. Not sure it will show up in pictures. In order to set the axle end play the hubs will need to be removed. Might as well do it first to inspect the axle bearings, axles and hubs. This is the tool I use to remove the hubs it has never failed me. I remove the axle nut and remove the washer under it then install the nut as shown, when the hub comes off it literaly jumps off.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/02/2010 at 11:08pm
The pasengers side hub was difficult to remove as expected, the drivers side came off with very little effort. No signs of damage to the axle, but all the wheel studs on that hub have been tack welded in from the back side. Not sure I want to reuse that hub.Unhappy

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/02/2010 at 11:15pm
This shows the axle bearings after the outer seal, dust cover, and brake backing plate have been removed. The TSM shows a special tool number J-2498 to pull the axles out of the housing. Never have seen one. What works for me is to hit one axle with a dead blow and this knocks the oposite axle out, then swap sides for other side. Helps to have a partner watch the axle that is coming out to keep it from hitting the floor.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/02/2010 at 11:29pm
Comparison of a stock axle and a moser axle. Looking at the stock axle both sides of the bearing have a seal surface that is about 1.375 inches. The inner seal goes in the axle housing and the outer seal is installed after the axle is installed into the housing. The first machined surface on the moser axle is 1.375inches also, and the bearing presses on up to the step. After the step the axle is close to 1.475 inches, a outer seal would need to ride in this area. It will go on but it is real tight, so tight I think the seal would burn up. But I think the metal plate that the seal rides in is important to retain the axle. Any input? Not sure at this time what axles I am going to use yet.      

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Nov/03/2010 at 5:44am
I wonder why the difference in the seal area diameter? I'd like to run the outer seal if I used those axles. Otherwise you get "Crud" in that area. I guess I don't understand their reasoning to not count on using the outer seal.
The metal plate of the seal doesn't really do much to retain the axle - that's the backing plate.  It is a pretty heavy piece..... so probably "strengthens" the backing plate in that mounting area.

That's pretty much how I remove axles - smack one side, it knocks the other out due to the spacer block between 'em. Otherwise, I have a very large slide-hammer that works, too.


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Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Nov/03/2010 at 6:26pm
Bill the bearings used with the Moser axles are sealed unlike the stock ones that you have to pack with greas like in your picture. I would have to pull the wheel & drum and that is not happening any time soon, to see if I used the outter seal. Here are some pictures I have of the retainer.
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=844&g2_serialNumber=1 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=844&g2_serialNumber=1
 
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=880&g2_serialNumber=1 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=880&g2_serialNumber=1
 
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=739&g2_serialNumber=1 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=739&g2_serialNumber=1
Dave ----


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TSM = Technical Service Manual

75 Gremlin X v8 for sale
70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/03/2010 at 11:23pm
Fuzzface your second picture clearly shows the outer seal. Its the flat plate with the lip on the inner edge, but the seal part is gone, its normaly bonded to the plate. I am in the process of looking for a seal that fits in that plate and has a different inner diameter to fit the moser axle.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/03/2010 at 11:29pm
After the axles are out all that is left is the ring and pinnion, and carrier. The caps are specific side to side and are marked up. I mark them with a stamp as to right and left also. I usually just use a center punch and mark one with one punch and the othe with two punches. With corisponding marks on the housing.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/03/2010 at 11:50pm
Before removing the carrier I checked the backlash of this diff and found it to be about .010 of an inch. Spec is .005 to .009 and prefered is .008. This picture is for deminstration only, I had already started to pull the caps when I realized I did not take a picture. The bearing caps should be in place and tight to check backlash. Backlash is the space between the teeth of the ring and pinnion, and is measured by gently rocking the ring gear back and forth while holding the pinnion yoke still. after looking at this post I realized you can see the missing tooth on the lower of the two small spider gears 

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Nov/04/2010 at 5:37am
Originally posted by FuzzFace2 FuzzFace2 wrote:

Bill the bearings used with the Moser axles are sealed unlike the stock ones that you have to pack with greas like in your picture. I would have to pull the wheel & drum and that is not happening any time soon, to see if I used the outter seal. Here are some pictures I have of the retainer.
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=844&g2_serialNumber=1 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=844&g2_serialNumber=1
 
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=880&g2_serialNumber=1 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=880&g2_serialNumber=1
 
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=739&g2_serialNumber=1 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=739&g2_serialNumber=1
Dave ----


Yes, I realize they are sealed (on each side) however......... there's still a lot of crap kicked into that area, and sealed bearings, well, IMO, they don't hold like the original seals, and they do not seal between the bearing and housing!


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Posted By: CR CRUISER
Date Posted: Nov/04/2010 at 10:20am
One of the critical steps that most people don't realize about the model 20 AMC diffs is that the axle hubs once installed must only be reinstalled on the axle shaft that they came off of.
 
When the hub was new (not previously installed) there were no splines cut into it. The hub splines are formed during the initial installation of the softer metaled hub being torqued onto the hardened axle splines. The position of the splines is determined by the small woodruf key. A hub can be removed and reinstalled onto the same axle shaft without a problem because the key aligns the splines.
 
If a hub is reused on an axle shaft that is not the original one that the splines were formed on, new additional splines are formed, the hub is severely weakened and subject to the dreaded spun hub syndrome. Always mark the hubs and axles before disassembly so that they are reinstalled as a matched set.


Posted By: bcsideshow
Date Posted: Nov/04/2010 at 12:44pm
This is all great info.  I will be rebuilding mine this winter.  Any and all steps and pictures would be greatly appreciated.


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1969 SCRambler "B"
1970 AMX 390 Auto
1968 AMX 390 Auto
1970 Rebel Machine Project
1969 AMX 390 4SPD Project
1969 AMX 390 Auto Project
1969 Javelin 390 project
1997 Cherokee lifted
1998 TJ Lifted


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/04/2010 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by CR CRUISER CR CRUISER wrote:

One of the critical steps that most people don't realize about the model 20 AMC diffs is that the axle hubs once installed must only be reinstalled on the axle shaft that they came off of.
 
When the hub was new (not previously installed) there were no splines cut into it. The hub splines are formed during the initial installation of the softer metaled hub being torqued onto the hardened axle splines. The position of the splines is determined by the small woodruf key. A hub can be removed and reinstalled onto the same axle shaft without a problem because the key aligns the splines.
 
If a hub is reused on an axle shaft that is not the original one that the splines were formed on, new additional splines are formed, the hub is severely weakened and subject to the dreaded spun hub syndrome. Always mark the hubs and axles before disassembly so that they are reinstalled as a matched set.
Good points, I should have stated its standard practice to keep parts that are a press fit when assembled together. Although with  AMC parts getting hard to find I know of used axles and used hubs that are not matched being run together with no problems. I should have also stated any time you are using a puller or driving bearings you should be wearing saftey glasses. 

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/04/2010 at 11:37pm
 using an inch pound torque wrench I am checking the pinnion bearing preload. Spinnig the pinnion with a torque wrench should yield a reading. Not the reading it takes to start turning the pinnion, the reading from a steady rotation after it has started to turn. This is a setup step that I under went to gauge the condition of the diff. Checking the backlash when I did also was to gauge diff condition. The preload was very minimal, about 2 inch pounds, should be 17 to28 inch pounds.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/04/2010 at 11:48pm
I should have posted this before I showed checking pinnion bearing preload. Removing the carrier can be difficult. There is a preload on the carrier bearing as well, this makes it a tight fit. I will explain carrier preload in depth later. I use pry bar as pictured to nudge the carrier out. At the very outside egde of the cast part of the housing are two round holes. There is a speical tool called a differential spreder. I locks into those holes and will spread the diff apart so the carrier slides out. Never have seen one. A coworker used one in the army, and watched a truck diff split intwo with one

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/04/2010 at 11:50pm


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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/04/2010 at 11:58pm
I had a question about moser axle lenght and the engaugement into the spider gears. My housing is about 52.5 flange to flange and the axles are 24 and 26.5 from the end to the step formed to locate the axle bearing. Picture shows both axles need to go into housing a small amount. At this time they are bottomed against the rubbing block that would need to be removed to run moser axles. I still have not made a decision on what axles to run. I will most likely show both installations.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Nov/05/2010 at 5:04am
Showing both would be nice - some of us run stock, some don't.......

We used the spreader. Also had them in college when we spent a good chunk of the quarter on differentials and setup. Doesn't take a lot of force to spread it the small amount needed to get the carrier in. Some folks simply beat the shims into place, too. Besides preload on the carrier bearings, the shims also are what you use to shift the carrier left or right for the backlash, etc. but I see you getting into that later ;-)


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Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/05/2010 at 11:57pm
The yoke is a tight fit through the front bearing and yoke, I back off the nut and use a air hammer with a rounded bit to push it out.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/06/2010 at 12:01am

At this point your diff is about as torn down as it will go.  I never had the chance to drive this diff so I spent extra time checking it out on tear down.  You should have an idea what was wrong with your diff at this point, most will be replacing the bearings and maybe a ratio change, or adding a twin grip. 



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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/06/2010 at 12:08am
If you are reusing the ring and pinnion or carrier or useing used parts you will need to remove bearings. There are several ways to do this including several diffent pullers or cutting them off. This is a picture of a puller designed to pull pinnion and carrier bearings without damageing them.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/06/2010 at 12:13am
Other special tools you will need include:
hub puller
torque wrenches
micometer or caliper
dial indicater Mine is a magnetic base and billd's shown earlier is a clamp on base, not sure with is better


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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/06/2010 at 10:22am
If you are looking for used parts all the carriers for AMC are the same with ratios 2.87 and lower. Shown on the left is a oddball carrier fo the 2.73 ratio. The flange the ring gear bolts to is in a different position. You cant get the backlash correct if you tried to use it on other ratios.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/06/2010 at 10:41am
This shows how to set up dial indicater to check carrier bearing preload. Use a set of shims that allow the carrier to slide in with no effort and install main caps finger tight. Using a pry bar, pry carrier left and right to seat bearing races in the housing. Then tighten caps with wrench. Pry the carrier to one side and zero the indiater, then pry the the carrier to the other side and read the indicator. The amount read is what is needed to be added to shims to achieve zero preload. Dont zero the indicator or read it while prying. Its a good idea to lightly run a file over the drve gear flange, this will remove any nicks or high spots. Once you have adjusted to zero preload set the indicater to zero again and spin the carrier watching the dial. This checks for runout, in a perfect world it should be zero. Up to .002 is ok.  

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/10/2010 at 12:36am
yea, new parts
bearing kit with crush sleeve and pinnion seal, New pinnion nut is wrong thread pitch coat about 100$ also got two outer axle seals about 30$ already had inner axle seals and axle bearings.


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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/10/2010 at 12:43am

I used an aluminum driver to install the front and rear bearing race's. Also shown is the shim for pinnion depth, it installs under the rear pinnion race. I have found that inorder to get the old race out you must drive against this shim and they seem to be brittle and easy to damage. I ground the four small notches in the shim shown to help in removal if pinnion depth is wrong.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/10/2010 at 12:47am
I used a press to install the rear pinnion bearing, similar setup was used to install the carrier bearings. You cant press directly against the new bearing or the cage will get damaged, I used an old race as a tool so I only pressed against the inner race of the new bearing.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/10/2010 at 12:59am

I mounted the ring gear to the carrier, its a tight fit and care must be taken to not damage bolts or threads. I carefuly start the bolts and in a cris cross pattern tighten them a little at a time. After the ring gear is seated I remove the bolts add loctite and torque to spec. My TSM shows 80 foot lbs, but I have a different set of instructions that say 65 foot lbs.


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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Nov/10/2010 at 6:54am
Brilliant on the notches in that shim to aid future removal.
Nice shots on the bearing installation, etc. - and using an old part, that's exactly what I do. I've even ground or turned a few old bearings and races to act as drivers for the new parts.
Nice.


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Posted By: PHAT69AMX
Date Posted: Nov/10/2010 at 7:37am
Thanks for posting pics and info about this process.
Wondering about where I've read that an extra set of Pinion Bearings
can be honed or reamed or in some way have the I.D. slightly enlarged
so they are a slip fit rather than a press fit, and used temporarily for set-up
to determine proper pinion shim to use to get proper pinion depth and lash.
Once proper pinion shim thickness is determined using the slip fit bearings,
then the new pinion bearings can be pressed on using the pre-determined shim.
This prevents needing to press on and off the new pinion bearings more than once.
Is this a valid technique, does it work ?  Only needed when changeing ring and pinion ratio ?
 
 
 


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Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Nov/10/2010 at 7:56am
I've seen it work IF the bearings are the same brand. Otherwise, you can run into what I did - new bearings changed the shims needed considerably - and the direction that can't be explained by wear of the old (and they weren't worn, they were very low mile bearings)
I've done that, but always double-check with the correct final bearings...


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Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/11/2010 at 12:54am
As far as honing a bearing for a slip fit it might work on some diffs. I think in Muscle Car Review they had an article on rebuilding a GM 10 bolt that honing bearing to a slip fit was suggested. On lots of diffs the pinnion depth shim is installed betweem the rear bearing and the pinnion itself. On the model 20 the depth shim is in the housing behind the rear pinnion race. The problem I ran into was getting that race out of the housing without destroying the shim. Thats why I cut the small knotches pictured in the shim a few pictures back. It allows me to remove the rear pinnion race without touching the shim. It maybe a valid technique, but not for this diff. And as billd pointed out it has its draw backs.2.547I do not have the tool for checking pinnion depth. As far as my determination of the correct shim, If you look at the flat surface of an original pinnion it has an engraved number on it like +6. This means that .006 needs to be added to the 2.547 pinnion depth spec. Making it 2.553. The diff I am working on had a pinnion witn +6 on it and had a .097 thick shim under it. The ring and pinnion I am putting back into it was marked +5 and had a .099 shim under it. As luck would have it the only intact shim I have is .099 that is what i installed.  At this time my backlash is .005 with is to tight, and the pattern looks like the the pinnion maybe to deep. But it may be just the tight backlash. My guess is I may need a .098 shim. This pinnion marking is discussed in the TSM

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/11/2010 at 1:15am
The shinny part of the pinnion seen in the picture is were the plus- minus number is usually at. I tried to take a picture of it but you cant see it. This is the trail assembly The pinnion is installed without the crush sleeve and without the seal. The nut is installed very carefully to preload the pinnion bearings. The carrier was installed with the shims determined earlier for a no end play no preload setting. This makes it so the carrier will slip in and out with very little effort.This results in .005 backlash, I think I need to move the carrier .003 away from the pinnion. I have a .090 shim on the ring gear side and a .091 on the oppisite side. It needs a .087 shim and .094 shim and I think the backlash will be right. Then I can better judge the pattern. On final assyembly the crush sleeve and pinnion seal will need to be installed. And the thickness of each side shim will need to be increased by .004 to properly preload the carrier bearings. Off to see about finding the right shims.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Nov/11/2010 at 6:55am
Show us the gear mesh pattern when done!
(we love pictures, LOL)


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Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Nov/11/2010 at 8:34pm
I have used the honed bearings 3 times on a GM 10 bolt and one time for the AMC 20 in the drag car. and yes I used the same new bearing for hone & use. Only did it that way for the GM 1 time out of 3 it was done.
Dave ----


-------------
TSM = Technical Service Manual

75 Gremlin X v8 for sale
70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/14/2010 at 10:28pm
pictures do not show the pattern well, but heres the drive side.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/14/2010 at 10:44pm
And here is the coast side. I did not have the shims to move the carrier over to increase the backlash in a no load state. But after thinking about it and calculating what shims I would need to move the carrier, then preload the bearings, I found I had shims to do that and ended up with .007 backlash and the above pattens. I have never shown much detail in installing the pinion. At this point it has no crush sleeve and no seal in it. But its pretty simple to remove the carrier and pinion  then reassemble with the crush sleeve. I always put the yoke on and tighten untell most of the play is gone and the remove the yoke and install the seal before torqueing the final amount of travel to set the preload. It takes very little to overtorque the pinnion and have to much preload. You cannot loosen the nut if you get it to tight, you must disassemble and start over with a new crush sleeve. The book Performance American Style suggests at one point to eliminate the crush sleeve and replace it with a shim pack of a thickness needed to set bearing preload. Then you can torque the pinnion nut tighter without changeing the preload. This helps with the stress under racing conditions.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/14/2010 at 10:47pm
This is the rubbing block found in the center of a carrier, it should be inspected for wear. If it is worn it might be difficult or impossible to set the axle end play correctly. And if you are installing aftermarket axles it needs to be removed.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/16/2010 at 12:46am
I used a 3/4 inch drive socket to install the inner axle seal. Measureing the seals installed depth before removal looking at the steps in the axle housing I came up with about a 1.15 inch installed depth.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/16/2010 at 12:54am
Install the right side axle first, the bearing should be packed with grease as it gets no lube from the differental. The brake backing plate, outer axle seal and dust cover go on in that order. Alittle sealer on both sides of the backing plate is in order. No shims on the right side. There are several shinny spots on the backing plate. These are spots that the brake shoes ride against, if there is wear at these points now is the time to find new ones.

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1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/16/2010 at 1:00am
Its hard to get an accurate measurement but after installing the left axle you will find that the bearing sticks out from the flange. This distance needs to be filled with the axle shims, mine was about .056 and on teardown it had .060 in shims so that is what I put back in it.

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/16/2010 at 1:04am
A magnetic dial indicator can give you a end play reading, but is difficult to stick to the backing plate. A clamp on indicator as billd shows earlier would seem to work better. My end play is still to tight. I will need to add more shims.

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Nov/16/2010 at 1:07am
The only thing left is to add the hubs. Remember there is a torque spec for the nut and a spec for how much the axle should protrude past the hub.


-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Nov/16/2010 at 6:30am
Hey feel free to use my photos on the hub/axle depth and end-play if you wish....

On the backing plates, and this was a factory (Bendix) repair - weld up the pads the shoes ride on, grind and file them flat, repaint the backing plates and lube with white lube. That was literally the recommended process back in the 70s. I've welded and brazed and filed flat hundreds of backing plates over the decades......
You want NO groove or ridge for them to hang up in.


-------------


http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com

http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com


Posted By: bcsideshow
Date Posted: Apr/23/2011 at 9:10am
Why do you remove the rubbing block for aftermarket axles?  I sent my factory axles into Moser and just got the new one piece axles back.  PLan to install next weekend.  Thanks for all the info.

-------------
1969 SCRambler "B"
1970 AMX 390 Auto
1968 AMX 390 Auto
1970 Rebel Machine Project
1969 AMX 390 4SPD Project
1969 AMX 390 Auto Project
1969 Javelin 390 project
1997 Cherokee lifted
1998 TJ Lifted


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Apr/23/2011 at 9:34am
The factory axles use a single tapered bearing on each end, they each touch the rubbing block and have an endplay spec that needs to be set. The Moser axles use a different style of bearing and no end play is set. I guess the block could be left in, but if the new axles touch it at all it could cause the axle bearings to go bad in a short time. Seems best to just remove it.

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Aug/10/2011 at 2:23pm
If you read it carefuly this thread does put it back together. rouge_66 has made a video of me taking one apart and putting it back together. PM him and he can sell you a copy, proceds are donated to this forum. 10$

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: spaghettijet
Date Posted: Nov/09/2011 at 8:26am
how do you set up the end float on the amc20 diff using the orginal axles, I need to adjust mine up. any  help appreciated.

-------------
its all good


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: Apr/01/2012 at 9:55am
I know this thread has been dead for a while, But, nice right up.
One of the biggest frustrations of diff work is crush sleeves. They take a lot of torque to
crush down.
The crush sleeve on the AMC 20 is the same as a Ford 8.8.
There is a crush sleeve iliminater kit for the 8.8 and many in the Jeep world
have been installing this kit in the AMC20. I makes for a much easier install.
 
Have any of you ever used a Wagoneer AMC20 in a car? They are 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern, but have factory one piece axles!  I am not sure how they would measure up width wise?


Posted By: vinny
Date Posted: Jun/21/2012 at 5:09pm
I would think there must be a slight preload on them or maybe a couple of thousandths free float. The shims are on the left side. I measured mine at .030" or .032" (one or the other) end float and was pretty sure that was way too much. I removed one of the shims (.030 or .032) so I have .002" pinch or free float, can't remember which.
I just read the TSM (recent acquisition) and they are calling for .004" to .008", .006" desired.
They say to seat it against the bearing cup using a lead hammer and measure the float with a dial indicator set up.



Posted By: tufcj
Date Posted: Jun/21/2012 at 6:23pm
Vinny has it right.  To set axle bearing preload, you assemble the axle.  Shims go on the left (drivers) side only.  Hit the left axle a couple of times with a lead or brass hammer to seat the right bearing in the cup, then move the left axle in/out while you have a dial indicator on the end.  Free play is .004-.008, with .006 desired.  Add or remove shims from behind the left backing plate to adjust.

Bob
tufcj


-------------
69 AMX
74 Javelin AMX
67 Rogue

If you need a tool and don't buy it...
you'll eventually pay for it...
and not have it.
Henry Ford


Posted By: amcenthusiast
Date Posted: Jul/07/2012 at 7:48pm
Good article on this AMC Forum. Mainstream medias often say the AMC model 10 and 20's are 'Dana' (spicer) sourced. As far as I know AMC made their own differentials. "Twin Grip" was the name for model 10 limited slip diffys. (model 20 limited slips were called...?) AMX390 tells us about that book I remember; "Performance American Style", a book made by AMC telling how to rebuild/hop up/modify AMC stockers for high performance/racing applications.

'Performance American Style' recommended to weld the cast iron center carrier to the steel tube axle extensions, and on four speed/man trans cars to weld on angle supports to the leaf spring perches... (I rounded the leaf spring pearches on my man trans 304 Javy, can only imagine a 390 or 401)

I think the Jeep guys know all the sources and how to's for the AMC model 20s?... Bulltear?

AMX Enterprises also sells one piece axles? -at least AMC diffys don't fall apart from a failed 'c-clip' like GM diffys do (with much embarrasment on the dragstrip! -I've seen that happen and laughed my rear off! -having the whole axle and wheel assembly come out the side of the car!)


Posted By: 1979 AMX
Date Posted: Apr/07/2013 at 10:01pm
Will the dif out of a Jeep AMC20 rear end fit into my AMC20 in my 79 AMX? I am replacing the ring and pinion also.


Posted By: amc67rogue
Date Posted: Apr/07/2013 at 11:16pm
The AMC 20 & the 15 were amc built . THE model 20 power lock  limited slip carrier was made by dana spicer. The same carrier style for the Mopar 8 3/4 , dana 60 , early Pontiac & Olds, early 10 bolt chevy were also dana. IIRC the 15 cone clutch was made by Borgwarner .

-------------
Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Apr/08/2013 at 12:17am
Originally posted by 1979 AMX 1979 AMX wrote:

Will the dif out of a Jeep AMC20 rear end fit into my AMC20 in my 79 AMX? I am replacing the ring and pinion also.

yes


-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: Rockbreaker
Date Posted: May/13/2013 at 7:48am
I have one of these with Superior one-piece shafts and a Detroit, also have a set of spare shafts (one-piece) but don't know how to go about getting bearing/seal set, I was told they don't interchange.


Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: May/13/2013 at 8:06am
Originally posted by Rockbreaker Rockbreaker wrote:

I have one of these with Superior one-piece shafts and a Detroit, also have a set of spare shafts (one-piece) but don't know how to go about getting bearing/seal set, I was told they don't interchange.
RB Try and go back to the maker of the axle to see what they say.
For Mosers they use a different sealed bearing than stock and a locking collar. IIRC outer seal, backing plate, bearing & collar. Side the assy. in the housing and you are done.
With after market, Mosers anyway, there is no end play to set up like stock.
 
I run Mosers in my drag car with slicks & Detroit locker.
Dave ----


-------------
TSM = Technical Service Manual

75 Gremlin X v8 for sale
70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car


Posted By: Rockbreaker
Date Posted: May/20/2013 at 7:07am
Thanks, I'm not sure what brand the spares are, I bought them second hand cheap and the prev owner didn't remember the brand. I guess if I measure the diameter I can probably get a kit for them. I was also told no matter what seal/bearing kit you use they always leak a little.


Posted By: 390spirit
Date Posted: May/20/2013 at 8:05am
if they are the right seals they shouldn't leak, mine don't leak...... mosers here


Posted By: amcamx70ny
Date Posted: Jun/02/2013 at 10:58pm
When re-installing the cup (or race) on both sides of the axle, doesn't this, by default, set the endplay? The caps go in pretty tight.

Is the process to first install the right (passenger) side flush, and then slowly tap in the left side till the endplay is correct then add the shims?

(I put up another post on this from Billd's tutorial, but it didn't show up...?)


Posted By: brahlf
Date Posted: Jun/03/2013 at 12:14am
If I remember correctly the race gets tapped in till flush with the housing. The end play is determined by the shims between the backing plate and the housing.

-------------
Bruce

1969 American wagon 290

1966 American Convert 290

1972 Gremlin X Factory 304

1978 Matador Wagon 360

1989 Jeep Comanche

3 AMC Eagles, not running yet


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Jun/03/2013 at 12:33am
The right side axle bearing will install flush. The left sidebearing cup will stick out from the housing slightly if the axles are correct for the housing. The shims fit around the bearing to set end play.

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: amcamx70ny
Date Posted: Jun/03/2013 at 12:44am
So when tapping the left side cup in, this is when the endplay is adjusted? How have you pulled out the cap slightly if the end play was too little?

In my housing, that cap goes in pretty tight...


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Jun/03/2013 at 1:00am
If you hit the right side axle with a rubber mallet it will move the left axle out. I usually put to thick of a shim pack in and hit both axles to seat the bearings out and check end play then pull apart and reduce shims to set end play correctly.

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: amcamx70ny
Date Posted: Jun/03/2013 at 6:47pm
I appreciate the help, I'll put up an update this weekend.


Posted By: amcamx70ny
Date Posted: Jun/06/2013 at 8:52pm
OK, my first issue was that I had the wrong right side axle.  That was corrected yesterday with the UPS guy dropping one off.

Pressing in the axle on one side pushes out the other side exactly as you stated.

I had to replace the right inner axle seal (don't ask).  I set it to approximately the same depth as the original (and the left side.)  When I push the right side in, it presses against the inner seal as I'd assume it is supposed to.  

Question is:  should the inner seal ride up on the tapered side of the axle?  To get the right cup flush with the flange, I estimate that there will be pressure on the inner seal against the tapered side of the axle.  Is this correct?  Or does the seal ride on the "flat" section of the axle?  (ie I didn't drive the inner seal in enough?)

Once this is answered,  I hope to have the rear done in a few hours (I hope!)

Thanks for the help on this.


Posted By: vinny
Date Posted: Jun/07/2013 at 1:22am
That of course doesn't sound right that the seal is riding at the end of its running surface on the axle. Either the seal should go in more or something else is wrong. You have the thrust block between the axles and they are the correct length? From what I remember the cut out for the seal is quite deep and you could drive it in deeper if needed but that is only guessing on my part. I've seen two and from what I remember the seals were only driven in flush and not deeper.


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Jun/07/2013 at 1:32pm
I have a housing here that has the seals in it. Measuring from the flange to the outer portion of the seal gives me a dimension of 1.3 inches. When I put them in I had measured how far the old seal was in and if I remember it was difficult to drive the new seal in that far.  My guess is you dont have the seal driven in far enough.  

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: amcamx70ny
Date Posted: Jun/13/2013 at 10:40pm
I believe I have the seal in backwards. Just to confirm, the side with the spring should be pointed toward the center of the differential? I believe the seal should be inserted in to about 1" (1.3" listed above) deep into the tube.

The axle housing I put in was NOS. If I am correct with the above statement that the spring side of the seal points toward the center of the differential (flat side toward the wheel), the seal was put in incorrectly in the factory.

I've heard that AMC sent rejected parts out to the dealerships for replacement parts?


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Jun/14/2013 at 1:39am
the spring should be on the inside.

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: amcamx70ny
Date Posted: Jun/15/2013 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

Hey feel free to use my photos on the hub/axle depth and end-play if you wish....

On the backing plates, and this was a factory (Bendix) repair - weld up the pads the shoes ride on, grind and file them flat, repaint the backing plates and lube with white lube. That was literally the recommended process back in the 70s. I've welded and brazed and filed flat hundreds of backing plates over the decades......
You want NO groove or ridge for them to hang up in.

Thoughts on using a mig welder to build up these pads or is another method preferred?


Posted By: amcamx70ny
Date Posted: Jun/15/2013 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by 1970390amx 1970390amx wrote:

the spring should be on the inside.

Thanks, this worked out perfectly!

If the parts I had were correct, this would have been a lot easier...  The axles are in, the caps/race are in, now I have issues with my backing plates.  The set I had on were modified - the axle hole was cut larger, therefore not allowing the backing plate to hold the race or cup in and therefore I couldn't set the axle end play...

The second set of backing plates I have are severely worn.  See my previous post re: building up the pads.


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Jun/15/2013 at 11:17pm
mig should work just fine. I have done lots of backing plates with one

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: amcamx70ny
Date Posted: Jun/15/2013 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by 1970390amx 1970390amx wrote:

mig should work just fine. I have done lots of backing plates with one

So, just build up the metal and grind it down I'd assume.  I see billd mentioned that he filed it down after.  Not sure how I'll get a file in there, but I'll give it a shot...


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Jun/15/2013 at 11:55pm
I use a small grinder

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Jul/19/2013 at 9:17am
I do not see a listing of what Twin Grips were used in what years and the differences that exist.

I've read some and am somewhat confused on what years are "OK","better","best".

I have a 65 twingrip in a torque tube AMC 20. Is it worth using? What does it fit?What is different?


-------------
Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler
4.0L, 5 speed
2015 Grand Cherokee Limited
2019 Chrysler 300


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Jul/19/2013 at 1:50pm
http://theamcforum.com/forum/how-to-id-a-twin-grip_topic24607.html" rel="nofollow - http://theamcforum.com/forum/how-to-id-a-twin-grip_topic24607.html  This a link to a different thread that has pictures of different carriers. early 70 and older carrier is two piece and is probably the strongest. 71 and newer is one piece and no one likes it, I think its ok. also pictures of an open diff. A torque tube carrier is a two piece and is pretty strong. I have heard that the torque tube carriers are different than non torque tube carriers. They take major changes in the shims to work, not realy a big deal.

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Jul/19/2013 at 2:08pm
Yeah, I see that the ones posted by 390Spirit and billd appear to be 2 piece.
Thanks for the link, it would be nice if the info could be compiled into this sticky.

I thought I had read that there was a break in designs on the two piece carriers after 65 or 66?

If it stops raining and we get a break I need to open up the one I have and see what kind of shape it is in. Was in the flood/parts car. Supposed to be 3:15 twingrip. Had the wheel housing sticker in the trunk and the correct tag, so should still be in there, somewhere.


-------------
Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler
4.0L, 5 speed
2015 Grand Cherokee Limited
2019 Chrysler 300


Posted By: apd6545
Date Posted: Jul/22/2013 at 9:00pm
I just want to clarify one point.  I have just taken a part a 70 MD Javelin 360 diff which I am refurb-ing.  I can tell you that from the factor this diff came with .048 - .050 shims on the right side.  Them when setting end play for the axles you shim out the left side.. This seems to be missed in the discussion. 



Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Jul/23/2013 at 12:07am
Originally posted by apd6545 apd6545 wrote:

I just want to clarify one point.  I have just taken a part a 70 MD Javelin 360 diff which I am refurb-ing.  I can tell you that from the factor this diff came with .048 - .050 shims on the right side.  Them when setting end play for the axles you shim out the left side.. This seems to be missed in the discussion. 

The right side should not have shims according to the factory manuals. If there are shims there they were put in later

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: calereeves
Date Posted: Jul/27/2013 at 2:55pm
I've reinstalled my right side axle, and now I can't get the left side to go in deep enough. I can feel it engage in the splines of the spider gear, but then it bottoms out. I can move the right side axle in and out and it's clearly not touching the left side because it doesn't move at all. I lack about 3/8-1/2 inch in depth to be able to get the bearing race in. Both axles had new bearings pressed in and were definitely seated all the way against the rib on the axle.

What am I doing wrong??

Edit: All I've done is pull the axles and replace the bearings. I haven't touched the center section. Looking down into the tube, I can't see anything that would prevent the axle from sliding in to full depth. I'm at a complete loss here...


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Jul/27/2013 at 5:44pm
The only thing I can think of is that an early two piece carrier has two sets of splines on each side, maybe something slipped causing a missalignment

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 68SSTjavelin
Date Posted: Dec/07/2013 at 10:33pm
This has been an awesome thread. Thank you all for all of the education on the AMC 20 rear end. I am left with a few questions after reading the entire thread. and having never rebuilt a rear end before, some of these questions may come off very newbie-ish. I want to change gear ratio and add twin grip, posi-trac, limited slip, what ever one wants to call it.
1) Where would I get the shims mentioned here. Are these available aftermarket?
2) If I am changing gear ratio, do I need any additional shims sets?
3) Looking at parts available at Jegs, for example, the pro series differential is a 12 bolt. does this mean 12 bolts for the ring gear? If so, looking at these photos, the ring gears depicted only have 8 bolts.

Thanks in advance for any updates or added info!



-------------
It's not the destination, it's the journey!
'68 Javelin SST
'06 Impaler custom scooter
'11 Harley Street Glide


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: Dec/09/2013 at 9:00pm
1)Most differential install kits have shims that will work but are different than original. ratech has original type shims available. They also have shim kits that eliminate the crush sleeve.

2)No extra shims if you change ratios

3)You need to look at model 20 parts, they might be listed as AMC or jeep. 12 bolt is a GM type of diff


-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: 68SSTjavelin
Date Posted: Dec/24/2013 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by 1970390amx 1970390amx wrote:

This shows the axle bearings after the outer seal, dust cover, and brake backing plate have been removed. The TSM shows a special tool number J-2498 to pull the axles out of the housing. Never have seen one. What works for me is to hit one axle with a dead blow and this knocks the oposite axle out, then swap sides for other side. Helps to have a partner watch the axle that is coming out to keep it from hitting the floor.


Are there no "c" clips? What holds the axles in? surely not just pressed in. What would keep the entire assembly from coming out during usage, the dust cover?


-------------
It's not the destination, it's the journey!
'68 Javelin SST
'06 Impaler custom scooter
'11 Harley Street Glide


Posted By: amcamx70ny
Date Posted: Dec/24/2013 at 8:32pm
I believe the backing plates (for the rear brakes) hold the axles in.


Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Dec/24/2013 at 10:38pm
Originally posted by amcamx70ny amcamx70ny wrote:

I believe the backing plates (for the rear brakes) hold the axles in.
Yes that is right. The stock set up the axle is tappered and gets a little wider so the axle can not pull thru the bearing. The bearing is then held in by a seal plate & backing plate.
 
Now the Mosers are a press on from the center end and then a locking collar is pressed in to hold the bearing to the axle. That is after the backing plate & seal/plate is placed on the axle first.
 
Some guys have questioned this setup and the axles pulling out of the bearing but that is for road racing with sticky tires but I dont think any one has had that happen.
Street I have never heard of axles pulling out and I would run them on my street car when the time comes. I do run Mosers on my drag car.
Dave ----


-------------
TSM = Technical Service Manual

75 Gremlin X v8 for sale
70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car


Posted By: 68SSTjavelin
Date Posted: Dec/24/2013 at 11:54pm
Thanks amcamx70ny 

-------------
It's not the destination, it's the journey!
'68 Javelin SST
'06 Impaler custom scooter
'11 Harley Street Glide


Posted By: Wrambler
Date Posted: Dec/25/2013 at 11:27am
Originally posted by 68SSTjavelin 68SSTjavelin wrote:

This has been an awesome thread. Thank you all for all of the education on the AMC 20 rear end. I am left with a few questions after reading the entire thread. and having never rebuilt a rear end before, some of these questions may come off very newbie-ish. I want to change gear ratio and add twin grip, posi-trac, limited slip, what ever one wants to call it.
1) Where would I get the shims mentioned here. Are these available aftermarket?
2) If I am changing gear ratio, do I need any additional shims sets?
3) Looking at parts available at Jegs, for example, the pro series differential is a 12 bolt. does this mean 12 bolts for the ring gear? If so, looking at these photos, the ring gears depicted only have 8 bolts.

Thanks in advance for any updates or added info!



Yukon gear and other Jeep places can be a little easier to navigate and get AMC 20 parts and info. lots of Jeeps came with AMC 20's

-------------
Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler
4.0L, 5 speed
2015 Grand Cherokee Limited
2019 Chrysler 300


Posted By: White70JavelinSST
Date Posted: Dec/25/2013 at 12:20pm
There are numerous places on the web that offer rebuild kits and shims for the AMC 20 axle.
answers
question 1
Ratech has great shim sets. Probably the best as they are made to fit AMC 20 not like the other supliers whose kits are really for GM axles.

http://www.ratechmfg.com/amc.htm

Randy's ring and pinion

http://www.ringpinion.com/

questions 2

Yes, the pinion will be in a different location for each gear set. The ring gear will be also. The different locations for ring and pinion and to achieve the correct mesh requires different shim thicknesses. It would be shear coincidence if the shims were the same.

question 3

The cover uses 12 bolts to fasten to the case. The ring gear uses 8 bolts to fasten to the carrier.

hope this helps,

Armand




-------------
70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972


Posted By: 68SSTjavelin
Date Posted: May/10/2014 at 10:08pm
Everything went together just fine, or so I thought. I went out for a spin and heard something so I came home and jacked up the car.  I have an issue with the axle end play, the axles do not touch each other. I replaced the carrier with an ECTED Locker, was I supposed to take the thrust block out of the origanal carrier and install it in the new carrier? I reused the original two piece axles.
If this is the case, how do I do that? Did I ruin the bearings. I have a lot of slop in the end play.


-------------
It's not the destination, it's the journey!
'68 Javelin SST
'06 Impaler custom scooter
'11 Harley Street Glide


Posted By: 1970390amx
Date Posted: May/11/2014 at 7:08pm
I cant tell from pictures but if there was not a block inside the carrier I would say  it needs one to work correctly. From the looks in catalogs it may be made for jeeps with one piece axles and they may not put one in it.

-------------
1970 390 4speed Bittersweet shadow mask AMX
1970 Amx missing most everything, or in a box


Posted By: needafasterAMX
Date Posted: May/11/2014 at 7:23pm
Yes it needs the spacer/block out of the old diff.When using stock axles.


-------------
74 AMX, 401
Viper spec T56 6 speed trans
Hydroboost brakes with rear disks from a Avenger
3:73 TG rear,now Trutrac with 3:15
A Turbo is in my future.


Posted By: 68SSTjavelin
Date Posted: May/11/2014 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by needafasterAMX needafasterAMX wrote:

Yes it needs the spacer/block out of the old diff.When using stock axles.


Thank you. I pulled the spacer out of the old carrier. Not to get a hub puller again and tear it apart one more time,  Ouch This is not going to beat me LOL


-------------
It's not the destination, it's the journey!
'68 Javelin SST
'06 Impaler custom scooter
'11 Harley Street Glide


Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: May/11/2014 at 10:40pm
Why do you need a puller unless yo uhave to adjust the shims.
You should be able to pull the axle to install the block.
That is how I installed a Lock Right Locker in my Gremlin.
Dave ----


-------------
TSM = Technical Service Manual

75 Gremlin X v8 for sale
70 Javelin 360/auto drag car
70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car


Posted By: elkyman70
Date Posted: Oct/17/2014 at 9:58pm
Ok, may be a silly question but is a '66 AMC 20 rear basically identical to say a '70 AMC 20 rear? I have a '66 Marlin and am thinking of replacing the center section and would hate to drop @ $500 and find out they are different.



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