brake4
Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Suspension, Steering, Brakes & Wheels
Forum Description: What makes it stop, turn, and smooths the ride
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17471
Printed Date: Apr/19/2024 at 2:44am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: brake4
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Subject: brake4
Date Posted: Mar/10/2010 at 6:42pm
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Nope |
Replies:
Posted By: Nashty401
Date Posted: Mar/10/2010 at 7:44pm
| Looks interesting especially if they can devise a setup for both suspensions and both drum to disc and factory disc to disc conversions. |
Posted By: prostreetamx
Date Posted: Mar/10/2010 at 7:45pm
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I've been looking into this for a few years now. The easiest way to make this kit would be with a currently available disc, hat and caliper. They would only need to produce a flat aluminum bracket that bolts on behind the bolt on spindle and possible a copy of a drum brake hub, or a factory drum brake hub. I have several loose spindles and a few of those drum hubs I've been working with. I was looking into the Cobra 13" rotars and calipers with an adaptor bracket, bolted to the existing Kelsey Hayes mount. Since I only have 16" wheels so far, the 13" brakes will have to wait until I go back to work. I think the Scarbird kit would already take care of the stock size brake crowd and I personally believe a larger size aftermarket type would have some demand, but I'm not a resto guy. ------------- Richard Payne Las Vegas,NV 72 5.7 Hemi Javelin 77 Prostreet 401/727 AMX,  [/URL]
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Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Mar/10/2010 at 8:00pm
And look out for RM-----------
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Posted By: 6768rogues
Date Posted: Mar/10/2010 at 8:07pm
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I also think it would require engineering and manufacturing a bracket, the rest should be off the shelf parts from some other application. I think there would be limited interest. Most of the AMCs have stock or nearly stock sized wheels, and factory setups are relatively easy to locate and work well. Oversized setups are not available as factory parts, but not many of the cars are wearing oversized wheels. Overall I think there would be some interest but whether there would be enough to make it feasible would be a function of how much it cost.
------------- Content intended for mature audiences. If you experience nausea or diarrhea, stop reading and seek medical attention. Located usually near Rochester, NY and sometimes central FL. |
Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Mar/10/2010 at 8:57pm
Anything over a hundred installed will be a hard sell.  |
purple72Gremlin wrote:Posted By: Red Devil
Date Posted: Mar/10/2010 at 8:57pm
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Interested. Currently running 15" stock car wheels which have more brake clearance than typical factory wheels. Car is a '74 Javelin AMX. 17" wheels would be the typical plan for a good performance street tire.
- front hat type rotors
- rear hat-type w/ internal drum parking brake
- caliper mounting brakets for 3.5" lug mount calipers (GNIII, Superlite, Dynalite, etc.)
- AMC should be easier to do than some others because of the bolt-on spindles.
- good if they made a stronger front spindle to fit one of their existing hubs ... maybe with an offset for lowering
- rotors .. depends on wheels, but shouldn't be difficult to have optional brackets.
Thanks! RD.
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Posted By: 6t8amxetc
Date Posted: Mar/10/2010 at 9:05pm
| Very interested. I believe there will be a pretty good market for these if they are made very complete and bolt on. No scavenging parts from here and there. I think there are plenty of people running 17" wheels on the Javelin and AMX's. I have 17's on my American Wagon even. I have been waiting for quite a while for someone to make a complete bolt on 4 wheel disc set-up for my 68' AMX. I probably know 2-3 other people locally that would also be interested. Thanks for finally taking the initiative! Keep us posted...Ty |
Posted By: GJSZ51
Date Posted: Mar/11/2010 at 8:18am
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I would be interested for a least one of my 68 AMX. My 69 I will leave the stock discs on and, I would be interested for my 71. ------------- GJS http://s307.photobucket.com/user/GJSZ51/media/IMAG1363_zps5f95240a.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Peter Marano
Date Posted: Mar/11/2010 at 8:24am
| I would buy a replacement caliper that would bolt on and use the existing four piston mount and rotor. Bonus points if it looks like the original caliper! |
Posted By: prostreetamx
Date Posted: Mar/11/2010 at 8:52am
McKintire has already engineered the bracket needed to bolt a Willwood caliper to an AMC. He CNC's this part in batches of 10 sets at a time. His setup uses off the shelf Willwood parts and a stock AMC drum hub. He only adds the brake hose and caliper bracket. The $2500 price is too rich for me for a bracket and hose. The last I heard is he will not sell the bracket seperatly. Mustang Steve's has a kit for early Mustangs that has an adaptor that bolts to the original caliper bracket. It looks like it might work for our stuff, but I don't have the specs. From the pictures, it looks pretty close. Like I already stated, I think the stock size market is already covered by the Scarbird kit. I will be running 17" wheels someday. Anything bigger just wouldn't look right on this car.
 ------------- Richard Payne Las Vegas,NV 72 5.7 Hemi Javelin 77 Prostreet 401/727 AMX, [/URL]
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Posted By: mramc
Date Posted: Mar/11/2010 at 6:17pm
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I've gone to SEMA for the last couple years trying to get Wilwood of Bear to do a disk brake setup for AMCs. To me it would seem to be the simplest thing in the world to do as they already have most of the parts for a setup on there shelves. The Kelsey - Hayes system AMC used was also used by both Ford and Chrysler, Mustang and Cuda/Challenger plus others. The later Kelsey Hayes sliding caliper setup used by AMC from 1975 up were also used by Ford also. You get Cuda/Challeger and Mustang / Torino setups and the only difference is the bracket and making up a bolt on axle for the AMC version, fairly simple. It just seems like a no brainer to me even if you did not sell huge numbers. The main problem is the source of donor cars for even the stock type brake setups are nearly gone and the repair / replacement parts for stock setups to retro fit to the earlier cars is getting to the point where the cost is soon going to be nearly as much as 12/13 inch kit from Wilwood or Bear or the others. Also the application is so wide , one kit with maybe some shims and it fits any AMC from 1983 back to 1958, possibly even Nash back to 1937! If the price is some where in the $1000 range as being reasonable considering most the cost of the parts are on the shelf to replace every thing are now. I don't see why it would not sell in a reasonable volume assuming you get the word out. People have been sniffing around the edges of this for some time. I'd bet however pulls the trigger and does a kit is going to make some money. Just based on the aluminum cylinder heads and the Indy aluminum AMC V-8 block Indy sells that no thought any one would buy. Turns out INDY can't build the Aluminum blocks at near $10,000 each fast enough for the AMC people out there. I don't really think a good upgraded modern disk brake setup would be any different then INDY's aluminum blocks. There are 4 or 5 different aluminum AMC cylinder heads out there now. How ever thought you see that! Pierre BoChamp in Canada had/has the molds for a system her did not pull the trigger on for sale last I heard for $2500. Oh , and guess what the set up works on Mustangs too. LRDaum ------------- LRDaum |
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Mar/11/2010 at 8:29pm
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These are the kind of things we're looking for in comments.
I have sent the Forum links and this thread link to Wilwood so they can monitor the interest and the comments. I have also scanned exploded views from the Parts Catalog of the two suspension systems and the two brake systems and sent them over to Wilwood.
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Posted By: Rebel 287
Date Posted: Mar/11/2010 at 10:21pm
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What about rear disc kit,that would be really usefull..... ------------- I know how to write....in french at least |
Posted By: bbgjc
Date Posted: Mar/11/2010 at 11:09pm
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I'd be interested. I've easliy spent $1000 trying to get the original Bendix calipers working.
The damn things still leak.
NOW, I've got to find out if the seals supplied by the hack company Kennedy Amercian uses to rebuild the calipers are even the correct ones. They are way to loose in the bore, a little pressure and the piston cups blow the seal.
If I can't get the Bendix to seal, I going down the road and building a system with a engineer over here in NZ.
SO sign me up!!! 17 Vintage Works wheels, so clearance no problem.
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Posted By: forest
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 12:24am
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interested.... Im running 17 inch cobra R ford rims.... stock disc up front on the hornet ------------- setting guys out by car lengths.... |
Posted By: xstatic
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 7:08am
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I'm very interested in this! I've been very seriously looking into making a mount in order to run wilwood 6 piston calipers. A rear kit would be great as well!
Q
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Posted By: amcrules00
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 7:15am
| You've definitely got my attention too. '73 Javelin/AMX with the factory/stock brake set up, never really have had a warm fuzzy feeling about 'em either. Left front tends to pull to the left under hard braking. Ready to upgrade to Wilwood as soon as this kit is ready. I only ask if we can make 'em reasonably affordable please? 15" stock wheels presently, 17"'s in the near future. |
Posted By: Class Guy
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 8:24am
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I'm not sure this will apply to street setups, but I recently adapted a Wilwood 140-1017B kit to fit. That's a drag race kit for early Camaro/Chevelle/Chevy II etc. I made aluminum brackets from 1/4" 6061 T6 plate and had to buy different seals, but it was a simple fabrication to make it all work. I have the drawings around here somewhere if anyone is interested.
After doing this and doing some more research, I think the early Mustang kit my be a better starting place. The seals in that kit are correct for the AMC spindles and you might be able to modify the brackets that come with the kit to work. That kit is pn 140-4307B.
Going to vented rotors may present some spacing problems, but I still think it could be done easily following the same approach. The bearing sizes and spacing on the spindle appears to be very much the same among the AMC, the early GM and the early FoMoCo.
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Posted By: revans69
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 10:29am
I have to replace/rebuild all of my calipers and rotors anyway, and I will be using 17" rims on my '70 AMX, so I'm in for some Wilwoods! 
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Posted By: mramc
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 10:57am
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What about rear disc kit,that would be really usefull..... Rebel 287 Already done for the AMC 20, the Jeepers have had this setup for some time Rebel. LRD I'd be interested. I've easliy spent $1000 trying to get the original Bendix calipers working. BBGjc. That's what I'm talking about. It's so expensive to fit the old stuff and so hard to find the correct parts that $1,000 plus for a new setup is starting to look a bargain. LRD I've seen a few custom Wilwood disk brake setup on AMCs. As noted before some one named Ken McIntire (sp?) of McIntire Machine does a adopter kit for the Wilwood brakes to AMC that some people have been using. There are 4 setup for better AMC brakes, including Scarebirds adopter brackets and part list. Mike Luke in Ohio is having a company called AeroSpace brakes make a setup for AMCs. he has two setup Mike sells. One is primarily a drag race setup , as Mike is a drag racer. It's limits are 3,000 pounds or less and no road racing. That setup runs about $900. There is a better heavier setup that is used for street cars with I think 12 inch brakes ,running around $1200 to $1500 with options. NOTE to BBGjc in NZ: There is an outfit in Australia that advertises "BIG BRAKES - Javelin, Hornet, Ambassador , etc" knows as MR-Spares on EBAY Australia that has a full kit for AMC similar to Scarebirds except they include all the parts including Rotors, caliper, etc,. Runs about a $1,000 Australian. Some people in the USA have been looking at the kit. There are fitment issues with the kit. That is why you need to include a kit axle and some in and out shims with any kit, which the Aussies have not done. You need some wiggle room on a universal AMC kit and to include the bolt on axle. Use the wrong one of 4 or so AMC bolt on axles and nothing lines up right! Then you need to shim in and out to center the wheel in the wheel well for correct fitment, especially if you planning on using 17 inch wheels some thing AMC never designed for . LRDaum ------------- LRDaum |
Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 12:55pm
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It sounds like if they made kits that had the spindles & brackets it would be a bolt on but has to stay 5x4.5 lug. As much as I don’t want to give up my 14” torq’s you cant get any good performance tires and 15” are not better but think is as small as they should go. Now I dot like the 17” rubber band tires but that is all we could fit in the wheel wells because the tire can not be too tall. So kit with spindles to fit 15 to 17 wheels and not break the bank would be nice. Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: xstatic
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 1:27pm
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We are talking about being able to get some real performance brakes here! None of this stock replacement with a gm caliper stuff. We are talking about the ability to have competition grade brake kits or upgraded braking systems! I may be in the minority as an aspiring corner-carver, but I'm sure the pro-touring crowd would like it too. If wilwood would produce a kit, that kept me from having to fabricate another piece of my car, then I would definately buy it. I know many others would too! Does anyone have a link to an amc 20 wilwood kit for jeeps? I did a quick search but didn't find anything in the limited time I searched
mramc:
Thank you for the replies, but sometimes, as with you last post in this thread, the post is difficult to read. With that said, you always provide good information thank you! I hope my statement does not sound rude. I'm just trying to be helpful.
If you want to quote someone, this is the format to use:
[quote][/quote]
Place the words you want to use or quote between the middle brackets.
The other easy way is to click the quote button at the top right corner of each post. The following is a quote with mramc's reply:
Rebel 287
Already done for the AMC 20, the Jeepers have had this setup for some time Rebel
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Posted By: kirkwood
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 1:38pm
I ran 18" tires on my spirit without any problems with clearance. ------------- AMO Newsletter Editor |
Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 2:25pm
Now who thinks replacing the stock AMC disc to Wilwood would not be an upgrade that fits in a 15" wheel?
Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: Red Devil
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 4:41pm
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Large rotors and 6 piston calipers will fit a 15" wheel ... with the right wheel ... look at NASCAR. Problem is, performance DOT street tyres in 15" and even 16" sizes are pretty limited since OEMs have gone to bigger wheels. Almost have to go to a 17" if you want a nice wide performance summer tyre ... unless you're after a drag radial or just a basic all-season BFG or something similar. If you're spending the money on a high end brake kit, likely want some good tyres to match, hence the bigger wheel. For sure they have lots of rotors and calipers that work with smaller diameters, just need a caliper bracket to suit.
http://www.wilwood.com/RotorList1.aspx
http://www.wilwood.com/CaliperListLanding.aspx - http://www.wilwood.com/CaliperListLanding.aspx
http://www.wilwood.com/HubList1.aspx?subname=Hubs - http://www.wilwood.com/HubList1.aspx?subname=Hubs
Be good if someone measured the stock spindle bearing spacing, bearings, seal shouder and offset to mounting flange - may work with an existing hub ... maybe using different bearings & seal? If a hub will work, all that's needed is a hat with right offset, rotor, and a bracket to suit rotor diameter and caliper maybe with some spacers or shims for alignment. Doesn't sound like something that needs a bunch of engineering to make work? Spindle bolt pattern is shown in this thread with a lowering plate: http://amccars.net/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1266243593 - http://amccars.net/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1266243593
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Posted By: Red Devil
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 6:55pm
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I had a set of bearings in my garage from a '74 Javelin Kelsey Hays style and it uses the following Timken bearings:
Inner Cup: LM67010
Inner Cone: LM67048
Outer Cup: LM11910
Outer Cone: LM11949
Inner: 1.25" ID x 2.328" OD x 0.625"
Outer: 0.75" ID x 1.781" OD x 0.610"
Same bearings as a Camaro, according to NAPA.
Anyone ever break an AMC spindle? I hear the pro-touring guys fail the Chevies?
Thanks! RD.
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Posted By: xstatic
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 8:03pm
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The sets for the cups and cones Red Devil listed are BR2 and BR6. The BR2 is the outer and the BR6 is the inner. These were also used on early mustangs and other Fords. Somewhere around 1970, the mustang switched to a larger spindle and bearing. Thanks
Q
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Posted By: prostreetamx
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 8:18pm
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The 71-74 Kelsey Hayes brakes use set 2 and set 6 Timkin bearings. I already swapped a set of these brakes on to my formally drum equiped 72 Javelin. I had to buy rebuilt calipers and one of those had a stripped out bleader screw. I am personally not interested in stock replacement brakes since they are still out there and available. 17" wheels are not that much bigger than the 15's most guys have swapped to already. If you are only interested in running stock wheels, you already have plenty of options. A street kit with bigger brakes is not available yet for us guys who want better, bigger brakes. ------------- Richard Payne Las Vegas,NV 72 5.7 Hemi Javelin 77 Prostreet 401/727 AMX, [/URL]
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Posted By: Red Devil
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 9:12pm
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Aerospace has kits. You can get them from PAS and a couple other forum members: Front: http://performanceamstyle.com/Cart/description.php?II=41&sessid=bf58a68755e37f83c9682504e13cc0fa&divi=amc - http://performanceamstyle.com/Cart/option.php?id=41&sessid=bf58a68755e37f83c9682504e13cc0fa&divi=amc - Rear: http://performanceamstyle.com/Cart/description.php?II=40&sessid=bf58a68755e37f83c9682504e13cc0fa&divi=amc - http://performanceamstyle.com/Cart/option.php?id=40&sessid=bf58a68755e37f83c9682504e13cc0fa&divi=amc - I have a set of Concord Bendix brakes in my garage (hubs, brackets, etc). Should dig them out and take some measurements. Wilwood lists mounting dimensions for all their calipers on their website with details for rotors, etc. so don't think it will be that tough to make brackets that work ... but a big brake kit sure isn't going to be low cost. |
Posted By: Coloradoamx
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 9:19pm
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A complete Wilwood set-up is the best news I have heard in a long time!!!! I am tired of having to scrounge parts, cross reference part numbers, and settle for home made brackets and parts. Search the forums, there are strings going back from the beginning where people are trying to adapt, scrounge, modify, beg-borrow-and-steal upgrades for thier AMCs. It seems to me to be a completely untapped market for Wilwood or somebody in the high-end applications. There is a BIG market for a high-end brake set-up for AMC. There are a lot of Javelin, AMX, Spirits, Hornets, Rebels, etc., out there that have had to settle for less just because that's all we have to work with. I have attached a couple pictures of the Crush with McIntyres set-up. I love it, but I have to admit it is pricecy. If Wilwood made a complete application for us, especially if all they have to do that's unique is a bracket, and the rest of the system is off the shelf Wilwood parts, that soulds like a winner to me. I'm bulding a pro-street 73 javelin AMX, and need Wilwoods on all four corners!!!
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Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Mar/12/2010 at 9:48pm
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Guys,
There is a lot of information being fed to Wilwood as we speak including exploded views of the suspension systems and brakes systems along with parts breakdowns. They also have links to this forum and this thread in particular to monitor all your input. Hopefully, things will come together soon.
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Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Mar/13/2010 at 2:56pm
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Between the pictures Prostreet (page 2) posted & Coloradoamx (page 4) it looks like the calipers are different. Pro is a 4 piston & Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: Coloradoamx
Date Posted: Mar/13/2010 at 3:59pm
| I'm pretty sure Prostreet's calipers on page 2 are not Wilwoods. The calipers on the Crush (Coloradoamx) are Forged Superlite 4 piston Wilwoods. |
Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Mar/13/2010 at 4:24pm
How many AMC'ers constitutes a big market? How much are they willing to pay? It's hard numbers that will make or break a business deal. |
Posted By: prostreetamx
Date Posted: Mar/13/2010 at 4:36pm
The picture I posted is a conversion kit to put Cobra calipers on a Mustang. These calipers would simply bolt on to your factory caliper bracket with this adaptor plate added. You would also put a 13" Cobra rotor on your drum brake hub. I also found some pics on Photobucket.com of this setup on an AMX. The guy fabbed up his own adaptor brackets and trimmed the factory hub so the cobra 13" rotor would fit. I also have a pic of a similar 1 piece bracket for an early Ford that has the 4 hole mount for the spindle as well as the tabs and holes for the caliper. While probably not correct for AMC, it looks pretty close.
The only difference between the Cobra calipers (other than size) is that the Cobra calipers have longer mounting tabs to space them out for the larger rotar. They would bolt on to the same non-cobra tabs. If a brake company looked at what is already out there to work with, the R&D would be much easier. I'm not sugesting that they reinvent all new parts, just add a few AMC specific pieces so it would be more universal. A bracket similar to this would solve about 90% of the problem. I think this is a Mustang Steve's part.------------- Richard Payne Las Vegas,NV 72 5.7 Hemi Javelin 77 Prostreet 401/727 AMX, [/URL]
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Posted By: Red Devil
Date Posted: Mar/14/2010 at 7:09pm
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Anyone know if you can get better street/mild track pad compounds for the stock KH or Bendix calipers, like a Polymatrix 'E' or BP10 or BP20, and have part numbers? A simple pad upgrade would be a big plus and likely have wider appeal. Thanks! RD. |
Posted By: mramc
Date Posted: Mar/16/2010 at 12:45pm
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OK Rear Dana 20 disk brake setups. Remember I"said" for "Jeeps". I was unaware of the setup Randy is selling at Performance American style for AMCs. I'll add another two , one for jeeps , one more universal. Off Road Unlimited has a kit. See there web site at :http://www.4wheelparts.com/Brakes/Off-Road-Unlimited-Rear-Disk-Brake-Kit.aspx?t_c=65&t_s=23&t_pt=6401&t_pl=9817. This kit is primarily for Jeeps and has the axles with it ,FOR WHAT looks LIKE 6 BOLT WHEELS. So you are unlikely to use this on an AMC. But there are options, so i think you would have to call and ask. The number two setup is from SSBC. This setup will work from the look of it on AMCs. Again there are options , including one piece axles. Web site is at: http://www.ssbrakes.com/commerce/brakefinder/?make=Jeep&model=CJ-7&engine=All&year=1978&cat=Rear%20Brakes&sub=%28H%29%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20Single%20Piston%20Rear%20Brake%20Kits. * Bullet point here: I believe there is a bit of difference in the axle length between the AMC Dana 20 for cars and the AMC Dana 20 for jeeps. The Jeeps are shorter I believe. * The setup are primarily made for CJ-7 s They will work for AMC with the notation of the axle length difference. I've seen a few done this way. So nothing new here. Lord love the Jeepers or we would a whole lot less parts for our AMCs. * Note: While doing the research I did notice that a lot of the jeeps were switching to DANA 44s and or other heavier duty rear ends. There seem to be a good number of rear disk setups for the Dana 44 used on the latter period of Jeeps. * Note: aside: Kaiser-Frazer and the Argentine IKA-Renault versions of there AMCs built in Argentina used the DANA 44. Not that hard a change over.(with the right rear end). * Note : Personally I would not spend money redoing a Dana 20 with rear disk brakes. The 20s are just too weak and it's easier to change over to a better rear end. If I'm spending that kind of money. That what I did on my 69 AMX. I used a Ford L-V nine inch rear end and an SSBC new rear disk brake setup. Note to the note * The L-V rear disk parts are just too hard to get and expensive when you do find them. So, thus the switch to newer parts. Only is now I have a metric rear disk brake setup on my 69 SAE bolt type car. *Note: AMC did have a four wheel disk brake system for the Trans-Am series. They used the GM type Corvette 4 piston delco type system. In theory it was an option on Javelins and AMXs. (For about $2,000 , back in the day.) So you never see it. AMC did just enough to get through as a option. Rumor was the 4 four disk setup went to Australia as part of the CKD kits. LRDaum ------------- LRDaum |
Posted By: kirkwood
Date Posted: Mar/16/2010 at 1:10pm
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Don't the jeep's also use a different bolt pattern? I did rear discs on my old spirit using the AMX Enterprises/TSMFG kit. I used a Grand Cherokee front disc rotor along with a modified bracket to make it work. The kit I purchased used a machined Lincoln rotor with an incorrectly sized center hole.  I wasn't impressed with the rear discs. I recall reading once in NAMDRA I believe that rear discs on model 20's don't work as well since the axle floats in the housing. Anyone know about this? ------------- AMO Newsletter Editor |
Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Mar/16/2010 at 1:41pm
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There was talk about this in a post some where either on here or the other site. The floating axle is when stock axles are used as they get shimmed at the left axle IIRC. One piece axles (like above) do not need to be shimmed so they don’t float. It is this floating that pushes the piston(s) back into the caliper so when you hit the brakes the peddle is low so you have to pump the brakes for the peddle to come up. Again 1 piece you don’t have this issue. If I am wrong some one will say so. Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: kirkwood
Date Posted: Mar/16/2010 at 1:52pm
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You're correct Dave, my mosers had the sealed bearings. I guess that wasn't my issue after all; It may have just been difficulty in bleeding the GM calipers; it is tough to get all the air out of them due to the bleeder placement. ------------- AMO Newsletter Editor |
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Mar/18/2010 at 6:38pm
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Good News! Things are looking "UP"! Just had a nice chat with the head of Sales and Marketing for Wilwood and he's very interested in putting together some kits. He understands the feasability of dialing in off the shelf stuff utilizing the right caliper bracket and is fascinated by the bolt on spindle setup. He is also a retired ex L.A.P.D Cop and is very familiar with the old Matador Cop Cars. He asked a lot of questions about the AMC engines and how they develop such power and how the heads flow. Keep you posted.
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Posted By: amcrules00
Date Posted: Mar/18/2010 at 7:07pm
DUUUUUUUUUUUUDE! 
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Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Mar/19/2010 at 8:18am
I think this is a good thing. Because of all the different size (2 as I am not sure?) AMC spindles and people not knowing what they have with out pulling it apart or measuring wrong, if the kit came with a new bolt on spindle then only one bracket would then need to be made to work with off the shelf parts like hub, hat, caliper, etc.. OK maybe 2 or 3 brackets to use different size rotors (11”, 12”, 13”) but still use the new spindle & off the shelf parts. If the new spindle was the same as 1 of the AMC ones then even better but should be able do the 1 stop shopping if need be. I am thinking any bracket that is made should NOT bolt to the stock AMC disc bracket! This is because some of the people buying the kit don’t have them or will have the wrong one. Case in point I have 3 different AMC disc brake set ups on 3 different cars. They are 1970 4 piston setup, 1976 Gremlin setup (like ford), 1983 Just me thinking out loud. Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/07/2010 at 8:26pm
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I think my car will be going over to Wilwood next week for Prototyping!
Stay Tuned!!
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Posted By: AMXing
Date Posted: Apr/08/2010 at 8:56am
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I have been building brake systems for all AMC using WilWood parts for about 8 years. Our system can be used on all AMC that have the bolt on spindle. Check out the AMX in this article. He is using our brakes. http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0611phr_1970_amc_amx/index.html - http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0611phr_1970_amc_amx/index.html .
Give us a call.
209-837-4409 Ken
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Posted By: lugo likes ramblers
Date Posted: Apr/11/2010 at 8:33pm
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do it! i need a kit for my 65 american! a full wilwood kit would be amazing! like everyone else has said theres definitely a market for this kit and god knows the guys that have been into amcs forever (im still relatively new being im only 17) would love this as well. it would be simply another headache out of the way for the amc crowd if there was a bolt on disc conversion kit from such a big name in brakes! ------------- 65 rambler american 2door hardtop! |
Posted By: AMXing
Date Posted: Apr/12/2010 at 9:49am
| These front and rear brake kits are the most complete kits on the market. |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/14/2010 at 8:30am
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The only bolt-on conversion right now that will fit ANY spindle is the Scarebird conversion kit. Just under $200 gets you a caliper bracket that bolts on TOP of the spindle instead of behind it, so spindle base thickness (that's the real difference between them) doesn't matter. You add $200-225 of off the shelf GM calipers and rotors from the local parts store to complete the system. A Wilwood caliper designed to bolt in place of a standard GM caliper should work fine -- same with the rotor. Get the Wilwood rotor to replace the GM one in the parts list that comes with the Scarebird kit (www.scarebird.com). Now I said ANY spindle, but I don't think it works with the big-bearing spindle used 75-76 on all cars, 77-78 on the Matador only. The rotor would be different, but the bracket will bolt on. The rotor listed with the kit only fits the small bearing spindles, you'd have to do a bit of experimenting to find a big bearing rotor (built-in hub). Or use a drum brake hub (did they have drums on 75-76 cars? 77-78 Mats??) and a hat type Wilwood rotor... ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: Red Devil
Date Posted: Apr/14/2010 at 11:52am
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Hi Frank,
Do you know for certain if all 75-76 cars use the big spindle, or only disc cars? I've got a 75 Hornet with drums that will be scrapping, so if it has the big spindles then worthwhile to pull them off. I pulled a set of big bearing spindles off a '78 Concord with discs, so seems they were used on more than just Matador.
Thanks! RD. |
Posted By: Class Guy
Date Posted: Apr/14/2010 at 1:26pm
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This is a picture of the bracket made to fit a Wilwood 1017B kit (early Camaro or small GM drag race kit) to my Hornet. It's a simple bracket and I have a drawing if anyone would like a copy. I can also have some cut if anyone wants to purchase them. This bracket will fit 10 3/4" rotors and will work with solid rotors or vented rotors. IMHO the pattern could be modified to fit larger diameter rotors, since the rotor to hat spacing would be the same. In addition to the bracket, you will need (4) 7/16" x 2-1/2" flat head socket screws & nuts, (4) 7/16" x 3 1/2" flat head socket screws, and (2) wheel seals.
Since this bracket mounts in front of the spindle, it should fit most AMC spindles. I know it works on the three different spindles I have.
After doing the research on the Wilwood kits, I believe that an early Mustang kit (4307B) might be a more viable option to start with, plus it uses an 11 3/4" rotor. The bracket that comes with the Mustang kit may be able to be modified to use on the AMC spindle and the seals are correct for the AMC spindle. If the bracket in the Mustang kit cannot be used, then my bracket will work since the hubs and calipers are the same in both the Mustang and the Camaro kits. My bracket would have to be modified to move the caliper away from the bearing center to work with the 11 3/4" rotors.
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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/14/2010 at 3:08pm
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RD -- the 77-78 Concord/Gremlin/Spirit also used the big spindle. I forgot about those bastard brakes! They use the big bearings/spindles, but the small 2.6" piston calipers instead of the 3.1" piston calipers used on all 75-76 models. The RockAuto catalog doesn't list a drum brake bearing for 77-78 models. I was thinking that's about when they did away with front drums, checked the RockAuto catalog to make sure. All front drum brake cars used the small spindles. I don't particularly think the big spindles are worth saving. The rotors for 77-78 are one of the hard to get ones, harder than prior years. Everything prior to 79 is pretty hard to get and usually cost $100 or more each. Occasionally you'll find a better deal, maybe an AMC vendor has a good stock, but most places have been selling stock-on-hand and not reordering, and the supplier may have stopped making them. Class Guy -- neat job on those adapters! I was thinking of just making an adapter to mount to the AMC bracket or using the Scarebird bracket. Could alter the adapter using the AMC bracket for a larger diameter rotor easy enough, using the Scarebird bracket directly you'd be stuck with the stock rotor diameter OR making an adapter similar to what you'd need for the stock AMC bracket. I think there are engineering drawings for adapter brackets on the Wilwood site, or at least drawings for the caliper mounting points. ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: prostreetamx
Date Posted: Apr/14/2010 at 8:15pm
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Any AMC spindle is worth saving if you ever want to buid a trailer or just make a set of rollers for your engine hoist. Since they all bolt on, it's pretty easy to make them fit on a home made axle with plates welded on. ------------- Richard Payne Las Vegas,NV 72 5.7 Hemi Javelin 77 Prostreet 401/727 AMX, [/URL]
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Posted By: AMXing
Date Posted: Apr/15/2010 at 4:56pm
PROSTREETAMX I was reading some of your posts, and this one is not entirely correct. "McKintire has already engineered the bracket needed to bolt a Willwood caliper to an AMC. He CNC's this part in batches of 10 sets at a time. His setup uses off the shelf Willwood parts and a stock AMC drum hub. He only adds the brake hose and caliper bracket. The $2500 price is too rich for me for a bracket and hose. The last I heard is he will not sell the bracket seperatly."
Here are some picture of what actually comes with McIntire's brakes kits..... Hubs, adapters and caliper mount, all machine by McIntire from billet alum. 6061. They also come black or clear anodize. Rotors are yellow zinc. Everything you see here is included in the kit and more!!!!!
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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/15/2010 at 5:04pm
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The billet hub is the real kicker as far as price. Nice, but I think a Mustang II hub fits. I wouldn't think the offset would make that much difference as long as the tire still fits in the wheel well -- wouldn't matter if it was 1/2" or so further out, but further in would cause wheel clearance issues. Another inch in tread-- who cares?
------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: AMXing
Date Posted: Apr/15/2010 at 6:08pm
| There are some problems when trying to use Wilwood hubs. They are universal for most of there kits using the same bearing set as AMC. The wheel mounting flang off sets out 3/4 more than the AMC hub dose. This will cause clearance issue with wider rims and tires. Also when the hub is mounted on the AMC spindle, the cotter pin hole is to close to the bearing. There is no room for the nut and washer. I have used Wilwood hubs in drag racing applicatios. With a little machining to the spindle to move the hub in for the lock nut and washer. And running 6" wide drag wheels they work fine. |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/15/2010 at 8:05pm
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Sounds like you had the outer bearing mount area deepened on a lathe so that the bearing set in a bit further. Seems like that could be done to the rear bearing and a bit of the hub trimmed down, moving the wheel flange in about another 1/4" also. I'm running a deep offset wheel with a 3/4" spacer between the spindle and steering knuckle to get inner wheel clearance right, and still have to use 1/8" wheel spacers too. I'm only running deep offset wheels to keep from having to narrow the Jag rear axle. So it looks like the standard Wilwood hub would work beautifully in my particular application -- just get rid of the spacers and machine the front bearing like you did. Something I might have to consider! I've got a set of AMC drum brake hubs that I've already knocked the drum off of too. Was thinking about making a bracket to hold Wilwood calipers and use a hat type rotor. ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: prostreetamx
Date Posted: Apr/16/2010 at 9:32am
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Couldn't you have the outer bearing race seat machined so the race sits in a little farther. This would give you room for the nut and washer. I'm still looking into the AMC drum spindle, drum hub and custom caliper bracket to run the 13" Cobra rotars and calipers. It's already been done before and used Cobra 13" brakes pop up on Ebay all the time. I'm not worried at all about wheel offset since I plan to order the wheels I need in the future with the correct offset to match whatever I need. You would only need to be concerned if you already have your wheels or plan to run stockers, which is kinda a waste if you are running larger aftermarket brakes and they probably wouldn't clear the brakes anyway. ------------- Richard Payne Las Vegas,NV 72 5.7 Hemi Javelin 77 Prostreet 401/727 AMX, [/URL]
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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/16/2010 at 10:19am
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That will work, especially with my deep wheels. I can alter the spacers I already have if necessary. I was thinking that altering the rear race seat would make standard wheels fit better, no need for special order offsets.
------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: Red Devil
Date Posted: Apr/16/2010 at 11:54am
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Wilwood has a bunch of hubs with different offsets and bearing spacings, so not limited to just one hub offset. Also note the cup OD of some of the 1.25" / 0.75" and 1.377" / 0.866" is the same, so should be able to interchange the small bearing / big bearing in some hubs. Sorry, haven't checked 'em all to see what may be a closer fit.
http://www.wilwood.com/Images/HUBS/Data_Sheets/ds7192.pdf - http://www.wilwood.com/Images/HUBS/Data_Sheets/ds7192.pdf
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Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/16/2010 at 1:46pm
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Here’s the Bottom Line in this. My Car IS going over to Wilwood on Monday the 19th along with a few other pieces to digitize and prototype. I will post photos of the process. This “Research” thread was started for the benefit of the people on this forum and I THANK the people here that provided useful information. |
Posted By: AMX Chipster
Date Posted: Apr/16/2010 at 2:08pm
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Torquey AMX
It would be great if Wilwood had brackets and parts for amc's in my opinion. I have had 3 different rear disks set up on my spirits and 4different front disks on my front. Every time, almost, I had to fabricate brackets to fit my needs. The last time I did my rear though, I had a Ford 9" end welded on my AMC 20 rear end and there was a bracket for Fords that fit wonderfully. The last front brake setup I did was with 14.25 rotors and grand national 6 piston calipers. I've always used Wilwood. ------------- Friends don't let friends apex early |
Posted By: kirkwood
Date Posted: Apr/16/2010 at 2:21pm
sounds like a great plan. ------------- AMO Newsletter Editor |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/17/2010 at 1:27pm
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Well, since Wilwood will have Torquey's spindles and such they should be able to pick the hub that works best, modify if necessary. Hope he sent them a rotor also... I think he had to, sent the whole car!
------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/17/2010 at 3:08pm
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Frank,
They will have the whole "Dang" car plus a few other spindles and brackets.
Looking forward to them seeing an AMC in their facility.
Actually, Wilwood makes the brakes for the "Humvee" so it sort of has an AMC connection.
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Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Apr/20/2010 at 9:19am
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http://theamcforum.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1691 - TorqueyAMX your mail box is full! Ok got the measurements, sorry it took so long they where buried. The drum base thickness was 1.252 This came off my 1970 Javelin SST drag car when I installed a 76 Gremlin setup almost 15 years ago. The disc one was .512 Now I could not take this setup apart so it was a ruff measurement with my calipers. Now I also got the measurement of the caliper bracket of .760 - .763 This I was able to get the calipers on. If you add up the 2 measurements it is so close to the drum base it would not make a difference in my book. The disc setup is a 4 piston setup from my I don’t know what the other disc setup measure along with the caliper bracket but guessing about the same as the disc setup above. Hope this helps Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/20/2010 at 10:26am
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Are you positive about that drum spindle base measurement? I've never seen one that thick, no more than 7/8", but I haven't taken everything apart either. The base of the drum spindles were usually MUCH thinner than the disc brake spindle base/bracket combination because the wheel mounting surface is all the way out on the end of the spindle, not roughly half-way between the bearings as it is on disc brake hubs. The caliper mounts are usually 1/2" to 2/4" thick, so your 0.760" sounds right. It sounds like you're assuming that the drum brake spindle base has to be the same as the disc spindle base+caliper bracket, but that's not true. Take another look at the drum brake spindle! ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: gwryder
Date Posted: Apr/20/2010 at 10:34am
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I would be interested in what appears to be a 21st century disc brake setup. I would like to see a front kit that can be expanded to 4 wheel discs. All the hydraulics would be welcome, proportioning valve, MC, etc. I would be willing to go with a larger diameter wheel too. My current spec's below. 1970 AMX, 14" wheels ------------- John 70 AMX |
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/20/2010 at 8:42pm
Yes, It is there being digitized! Notice one of my Machine wheels there for the process.
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Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Apr/20/2010 at 9:36pm
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Yea Frank I PM'd TorqueyAMX about that measurement. I am going to pull it back out and check it again and take pictures. Dont think I need to take the assy apart but may just to make sure.
What is funny the measurements Torq gave me of the 2 different disc spindles with the calipers brackets they came out to the 1 1/4".
Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 5:04am
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The disc brake bracket is 1/2"- 3/4" and the spindle base is 3/4"-7/8". Could be 1-1/4" or a bit more, depends on year. I think his 1-1/4" thick combo is for a 71-74 Kelsey Hayes setup. The later Bendix is slightly thicker. It all depends on how deep the rotor is -- how far the wheel mounting face on the rotor is set back from the end. As I said, drum brakes have that face much closer to the end of the spindle, and there is no bracket or spacer. Maybe you're measuring the steering arm too? The steering arm goes between the spindle and steering knuckle on both disc and drum setups, and is the same on both.
------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 11:05am
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Edit: This came off my 70 Javelin SST drag car. Car came from the factory with a v8/auto, with out re-checking the numbers I dont know the motor size. Also added the drum size below.
Here are the pictures of a 10" drum setup I have.
Drum setup you can see the spindle (black) just above it the knuckle, and above that the steering arm. http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2393&g2_serialNumber=1 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2393&g2_serialNumber=1 2 measurements of spindle base 1 1/4 - 1 of 1.255 other of 1.256 http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2396&g2_serialNumber=1 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2396&g2_serialNumber=1 http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2402&g2_serialNumber=1 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2402&g2_serialNumber=1 Dave ---- Sorry I cant show them, some thing about my site and how they store them.------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 11:34am
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This is off my 70 Javelin SST 390/4sp car. I pulled them last Dec. to install 83 Concord setup.
The 4 piston setup. First picture is the setup less the steering arm. You can see the empty bolt hole to the left. Thin spindle base, Caliper bracket, knuckle. Yea got to change the picture discripsion.
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2378&g2_serialNumber=2 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2378&g2_serialNumber=2 Not so good picture of how I came up with the measurement http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2381&g2_serialNumber=2 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2381&g2_serialNumber=2 Measurement of spindle base http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2384&g2_serialNumber=2 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2384&g2_serialNumber=2 Caliper bracket with measurement .763 http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2387&g2_serialNumber=2 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2387&g2_serialNumber=2 Close up .763 http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2390&g2_serialNumber=2 - http://cars.grantskingdom.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2390&g2_serialNumber=2 Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 7:43pm
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Thanks a lot Dave -- the pics sure do erase any doubt! Like I said, I haven't taken every AMC brake system apart. What I have the most experience with (and have a few on hand) is 58-66 Americans and 63-66 Classic/Marlin/Ambassador. Those all use the thin spindle with drum brakes. The disc setup I'm most familiar with is the 79-83 small car discs. Those all use a roughly 7/8". I would suspect the real thick drum spindles are Javelin only, but TorqueyAMX said the part number also apply to other 1970 cars (see list below). So apparently there was a change with the 1970 suspension to get the front tread width where AMC wanted it, or in the case of the Hornet/Gremlin to fit wider than normal stock tires. Don't know how far beyond 70 the thick base spindle was used with drum brakes -- could be 70-71 only, but I suspect it was used with drum brakes until discs were stock on front (through 1976 -- 77+ disc front stock). I've not messed with any AMCs with drum brakes newer than 66, not that I took spindles and all off of anyway. Just changed some shoes and pads, maybe a wheel cylinder and caliper or two. Going by application of a '70 Javelin V8 with drum brakes, that
part number is also the same for:
'71 Hornet/Gremlin 6 cyl less discs with wide 70 series tires
'70 Hornet V8 less discs with wide tires
'70 Rebel/Ambo V8 less discs
'71 Javelin V8 Less discs------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 7:55pm
| I've got Ambassador drum brake spindles that are 1.260" base. |
Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 8:17pm
PMM IIRC Torq said in a PM to me that was one of the cars that had the 1.25 base. I would copy it from my PM but when I was trying to make room I dumped ALL my PM’s. I wonder if the 1.25 base goes with a 10 inch drum? Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 9:08pm
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"Don't Worry..... Be Happy!!! Probably two kits. one a base 11 inch rotor kit and a 12.19 Big Kit!
The digitizing process
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Posted By: 6t8amxetc
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 10:02pm
| Awesome news TorqueyAMX! Thank you again for your efforts in making this happen. And for keeping us up to the minute on the progress. That is pretty cool they will let you take pics etc and post them here. They will definitely be on my list of upgrades for my AMX. Have they given any indication of a time frame for development, testing, production etc? Thanks...Ty |
Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 10:03pm
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Way to go! Job well done! I know they just said they would do kits do you know how long before they have them rolling out the door & list some thing on their site? I don’t see any thing at all for AMC / Rambler. Now if they could do some thing for the rear using the AMC 20. I know the axles would need to be replaced because of the end play of the stock setup. There I go dreaming again Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 10:24pm
Dave, That's actually almost Funny!
 I eventually heard they actually started taking my rear axle apart today and couldn't figure out how to do it!!!!!
I told them "Leave My Freakin' Rear Axle Alone"!!!
 I think I know of a way to digitize the rear without taking it apart and have passed that information along to them.
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Posted By: FuzzFace2
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 10:40pm
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Are you running the stock axles or after market? I ask because others that have made a disc kit of their own using stock axles had issues because of end play so this should be brought up to them. Keep us posted Dave ---- ------------- TSM = Technical Service Manual 75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
Posted By: AfroMan2326
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 10:44pm
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so are we gonna have drum to disc conversions from wilwood? or do we have to find all the old disc brake hardware to use the wilwood parts?
------------- 1973 Pierre Cardin Javelin |
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 10:53pm
My rear axle is stock and been untouched for 178,000 miles. That's why I went nuts when I heard they were messing with it.
I have made them aware of the floating issues but I think a lot of guys that do rear discs change to one piece axles anyway.
Like I said, I think I have a way for them to digitize everything without tearing an axle apart and they will find out what they have in a hub/rotor that may work and simply make a bracket.
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Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/21/2010 at 10:54pm
Yes, I have a plan for dealing with some drum cars that should work fine. Stay tuned.
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Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/22/2010 at 5:10am
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They don't need to pull the hubs, just the axles. So tell them it comes apart just like a 9" Ford and let them pull one. Won't hurt anything. End play is only adjusted on the left side only, so let them pull the right axle. That way they can't loose any shims or mess up the adjustment. Remove brake drum, the four backing plate bolts, and tug the axle out. Several people already make rear disc kits for the AMC 20. One is WSC Motorsports in Georgia. They race a few AMCs too, see their home page. http://www.classicone.com/wsc/catalog/amc/amc_per1.htm. There is no reason to replace the rear axle for a rear disc kit. A bolt-on kit might need space to shim the caliper a little, at least the left side caliper. Even one-piece axles still have some end-play. There may be issues with too much end-play though. The 72 TSM says it should be 0.004-0.008, 0.006 desired. Not much!! ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/22/2010 at 5:29pm
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Well I guess my car is back in one piece at Wilwood so I pick it back up tomorrow.
They initially said they'd need it for 2 days and spent 4 days exploring it which is great. Not sure about the rears yet but 2 kits for the front seem good to go.
Thanks again for everybodys input
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Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/23/2010 at 12:44pm
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Well My car is FINALLY back home from Wilwood. The engineer said it looks like a "Piece of Cake"
I brought it there for YOU GUYS! So I hope you will support this venture and one more major manufacturer stepping into the AMC World!
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Posted By: kirkwood
Date Posted: Apr/23/2010 at 1:12pm
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Great Work, thanks for the effort to get this done! ------------- AMO Newsletter Editor |
Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Apr/23/2010 at 1:39pm
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Posted By: purple72Gremlin
Date Posted: Apr/23/2010 at 1:46pm
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Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/23/2010 at 1:56pm
Thanks Kirkwood.
It's taken a lot of time and reseach and digesting information here but at this point, I think we can get everybody covered from the early '60's to '74 and '79 to '83. If someone is willing to send a big bearing spindle to Wilwood for digitizing, we may be able to handle everyone!
What's cool was the AMX got A LOT of attention while it was at Wilwood by the employees there. I hear there was a lot of positive feedback on doing the kits to Marketing. Some of them had probably never seen one before.
I'm now focusing on research on ALL the Jeeps that used the AMC 20 rear axle with the 5 bolt flange. If I can spread the application concept for Wilwood Rear Disc Brakes, they seem interested in that too! The bracketry would be the same just different rotors.
Thanks again for all the help.
 |
Posted By: kirkwood
Date Posted: Apr/23/2010 at 2:10pm
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for what it's worth the 93-98 grand cherokee front rotor is a good star for the rear. ------------- AMO Newsletter Editor |
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/23/2010 at 2:34pm
I believe they at least took the rear brakes off my car, looked at it and they thought they had a rotor that would work.
The key for their interest would be to expand the bracketry application into the Jeep line on the AMC 20's with the 5 bolt flange. That will peak their interest more on the rears.
I'll also work on the big bearing spindles next.
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Posted By: fast401
Date Posted: Apr/23/2010 at 5:07pm
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A friend has Wilwoods on the front of his 70 AMX. He has the drawings for the bracket. Now if I can talk him out of a copy! ------------- Disturbing the peace since 1970!!! AMX 19245 Facebook page - AMC Nation www.fast-401.4t.com |
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/23/2010 at 5:20pm
DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT!
Everything Wilwood needs has been DIGITIZED along with a factory "Machine" 15 x 7 wheel and I gave them the offset of a 14 inch Magnum wheel.
We are good to go!
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Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Apr/23/2010 at 5:22pm
Why buy when you can steal? |
Posted By: Red Devil
Date Posted: Apr/23/2010 at 9:53pm
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Excellent work TorqueyAMX Thanks! RD. |
Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Apr/24/2010 at 8:54am
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Purple, I didn't mean to insinuate that there is anything inherently wrong with the 77-78 "bastard" brake setup, they are just hard to find calipers for and are unusual because they use the big bearing spindle and the 2.6" piston calipers. You are correct that they use the same caliper as 79-81 model. 82-83 used the GM low drag calipers. That is almost. Originally the 77-78 calipers used a composite piston that would distort over time and cause leaks. Any in operation after about 4-5 years would have been replaced with a rebuilt caliper with a steel piston, so the fact that the originals had a composite piston is really moot -- any you find in a salvage yard will most likely have a caliper with a steel piston. I've never seen a composite piston in a set, Randy Guynn of PAS pointed out that they originally had one years ago on the AMC-List. ------------- Frank Swygert |
Posted By: TorqueyAMX
Date Posted: Apr/26/2010 at 6:34pm
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Okay.
I'm continuing to do a bunch of research on a Wilwoods for AMC's in an effort to help the Engineers and I have an important question?
How many people STILL have Drum brakes on their cars and how many people have converted their Drum brakes to "Boneyard" factory Discs?
Also, What Boneyard factory discs did you convert to what year car?
Curious.
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Posted By: poormansMACHINE
Date Posted: Apr/26/2010 at 6:55pm
| 69 Ambassador w/79 Spirit discs |