1968 RKE Trans-Am Javelin stuff
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Forum Name: Autocross, circle track
Forum Description: Ralleys, autocross, non-drag racing events and conversations
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Topic: 1968 RKE Trans-Am Javelin stuff
Posted By: SCCAJavelin
Subject: 1968 RKE Trans-Am Javelin stuff
Date Posted: Jan/08/2010 at 10:59am
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I have a fair bit of old AMC history laying around...here are some from 1968; Ronnie Kaplan Engineering 1968 Javelins
       ------------- Erik B. ___/\___/\___/\___/\___/\___ Wisconsin Autocrossers, Inc. |
Replies:
Posted By: tsanchez
Date Posted: Jan/08/2010 at 11:47am
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Cool! ------------- http://s192.photobucket.com/user/antonsan/media/jav1_zps87a70dce.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: PHAT69AMX
Date Posted: Jan/10/2010 at 8:08am
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x2, Thanks for posting. 84 deg ABDC Intake closing angle on the cam with 11.5:1 SCR. -------------  Link to a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MySiKQsmWxU" rel="nofollow - Short YouTube Burnout Video |
Posted By: naparsei
Date Posted: Jan/04/2012 at 9:55am
| One of the two cars is in the Historic Trans/Am Registry, sold from Fantasy Junction. Does anyone know where the other is (the #4 car, George Follmer)? |
Posted By: GreggR
Date Posted: Jan/04/2012 at 8:37pm
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OK...help me out... Have I not read over and over that there are shrouding issues using the bigger bore heads on the smaller bore block? the engine specs clearly state: heads, 343 iron. Clarification? ------------- No matter where you go, there you are... Buckaroo Banzai.'75 Hornet Hatchback |
Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/08/2012 at 8:10pm
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Follmers Javelin is in the D/FW area. Basically, beautiful, but I believe is getting a close-to-correct 290 put together.... hopefully soon. ------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: naparsei
Date Posted: Jan/11/2012 at 10:02pm
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Crazy, Do you know who owns it? Thanks, A |
Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/11/2012 at 10:14pm
I do, but in this day and age, let me make sure it's OK with him to say.... It's never been a secret, just hasn't been mentioned in a long time...  ------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: PlazinJavelin
Date Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 7:22pm
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Thanks for the cool info. I looked a long time (and never found) that 189.20" number :) |
Posted By: naparsei
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 4:37am
Thanks, Crazy. Did you work at RKE? |
crazyamc wrote:Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 7:35am
 That's funny! I'm old, but not that old! Follmers' car was being Solo1 autocrossed at the SCCA Nats in '88 I think, the car was for sale.. I recognized it for what it was, but didn't have the money.. A friend bought it sight unseen. He's a big Shelby nut, has a '65 and a '68 500KR.... I'll try to get in touch with him this next week.. As for me and my monicker, I'm just a big fan of all the T/A cars, teams, and history. There's just this vast 'hole' surrounding information on the '69 Kaplan cars, that they are my focus and passion right now.------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: 70amcpwr
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 8:50am
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$250k was the last number I heard it sold for, don't know if it was accurate or not, ------------- 70amcpwr You just can't fix stupid. SOLD 1970 BBO Javelin, wifes 73 AMX 360 4spd. Next project 1969 AMX |
Posted By: Aljav
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 8:55am
As AMCers we do a horrible Job on preserving AMC history. We preserve the cars but not the Data, the stories, timelines. Crazyamc and I have talked briefly and any help you can give him will help. I am doing AMC Pro stock history research as this is horribly filled with misinformation. I don't know how bad the Trans AM racing is for " Made up stories" are but Pro stock is just horrible. I was recently told Wally Booth ran his motor backwards..LOL. My research has been blessed by those who own the cars and Wally himself. And its not going to end there. Its is going to be a monumental task, but I am excited. I work on it just about every night. Just ask my wife..LOL  Allan ------------- 69 AMX 9.86 132 mph 71 JAV/AMX and 69 Javelin, .. NAMDRA member #1106 |
Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 9:10am
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In '88, UNrestored T/A cars were much more reasonable, but with still a wide price range, depending on pedigree... The '68 Follmer car hasn't changed hands since '88, when it was bought (and delivered) for a song..... It's weird, but the OTHER Follmer Javelin, the '72 Roy Woods car, was also Dallas-based for years. It was owned by Mission Foods owner Juan Gonzales.(sp?).... It sold to the West coast 'recently' ; 6-months to 2 yrs... I don't know; 250K might have been the number, but I would think it would've brought more... I also don't know for how much or if the Revson '68 car sold for.... 250K might have been it. Ken ------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: naparsei
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 9:24am
| I recently bought a Trans Am Z/28. I followed the European racing (history) closely, then got into the U2 cars (learning about them), then saw a bunch the HMSA/HTA races with the O5 cars, and had to get involved. The cars are really awesome. The AMC cars had one of the best liveries, and was arguably the best "base" car to start from; plus the various efforts (RKE, Penske, RW) make the Javelin story really interesting. |
Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 9:57am
 VERY COOL! I'm curious as to 'which' T/A Z28 you bought?? Have you been on camaros.org? GREAT site and people.... I've owned and raced a '69 A/S Camaro since '91... built as an A-sedan car in '72 by Dick Fischer in Milwaukee, he was Cen-Div A-Sedan champ in '76... Historic Trans Am Registry # TA-025 AS... No, it never ran a T/A event, but the registry was taking A-sedan cars back then.. It is VERY WELL restored, 98% to the '69 rules; and for sale... Ken------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 10:00am
True about the '69 Cars, do they exist somewhere?? Seems like the other original T/A are all acounted for. The '69 cars have unique wheel flares out back so there's no mistake what it is.
Unique hood too :)
Interesting story, I was wearing my Javelin T-shirt at the Road America Nascar race, and a fella came up to me and mentioned he use to work for Kapplan back in '68/'69! We chatted for a moment, he now lives in California, that was pretty cool.
There are some great old T/A pictures here!!
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8485.0 - http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8485.0
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7779.0 - http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7779.0 http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8328.0 - http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8328.0 http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8309.0 - http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8309.0 |
Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 2:54pm
Well; ...... who was it? You know as well as I do that I (we) need his contact info... !! I need Don to make me a hood, too! I bought my block and crank from an original AMC employee, he'd owned it 41 yrs... never seen oil or water, but getting closer... ------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: naparsei
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 3:14pm
| I bought the Petersen car which raced in 1972. |
Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 3:17pm
 Very cool! It was on my 'watch list".... Ken------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 5:53pm
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Don't remember his name, I asked a few questions and he didn't have much info. I don't think he was a high level guy, Very nice fella though. I need to properly paint my TA hood, it's been in black primer for 2 years now.
 |
Posted By: 70amcpwr
Date Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 9:03pm
Picture from ad last year I believe. Must be either a fake or 1968, didn't they not have the bulges? I know sometrhing didn't. ------------- 70amcpwr You just can't fix stupid. SOLD 1970 BBO Javelin, wifes 73 AMX 360 4spd. Next project 1969 AMX |
Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/15/2012 at 9:50am
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That's the 'other' 1968 team car. Peter Revsons ride. Was for sale or sold through Fantasy Junction, I think.... This is the sister car to the '68 Folmer car still in Dallas area... 1969 team cars were bulged at the wheel openings.. and had a big 'mailbox' on the hood to clear..... nevermind; you probably wouldn't believe it... ------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/15/2012 at 3:01pm
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Posted By: Aljav
Date Posted: Jan/15/2012 at 3:31pm
Yea? like what? I suppose you gonna tell us its for a individual like tunnel ram with two Dominators..yaa right...LOL Good luck on that story....  Allan ------------- 69 AMX 9.86 132 mph 71 JAV/AMX and 69 Javelin, .. NAMDRA member #1106 |
Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/15/2012 at 4:33pm
It's more like a suitcase than a mailbox.  |
Posted By: 70amcpwr
Date Posted: Jan/15/2012 at 4:41pm
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So are you saying in 1969 they built 2 new cars just to bulge the wheel opennings and change the hood? If so where were the 2 1968 cars in 69? Don't recall ever hearing of 4 prePenske Trans-am Javelins running the tracks at the same time, not saying it isn't so, just saying. ------------- 70amcpwr You just can't fix stupid. SOLD 1970 BBO Javelin, wifes 73 AMX 360 4spd. Next project 1969 AMX |
Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/15/2012 at 5:29pm
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Typically new cars were built every year. Interestingly the ’69 cars are easy to spot as along with the obvious body modifications it had ‘70ish front suspension. This was available in kit form in '69 as was the TA hood. The old cars were sold, or held as backups. I believe at least one of the RKE 68 cars was run in 69 as a privateer car. Interestingly the ’69 cars were allowed to run the new hood, but not the ’68 rear wing. The 1968 cars were the only Javelins allowed to run the rear spoiler in the ’69 season. Highly unlikely that all the changes made to the 69 cars would be un-done prior to selling them, just saying. |
Posted By: Javelin_GT
Date Posted: Jan/15/2012 at 6:15pm
I know Ted Roberts drove one of the 1968 cars in 1969. Bob Tullius also drove in 69 what was probably a left over 1968. The #33 car is from Michigan in 1969. The bw photo of #55 is Ted Roberts at Mid Ohio in 1969.   |
Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/15/2012 at 7:05pm
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I love it when I get asked questions and somebody else provides the answers... Thanks guys!! as for the last question; Hey Javelin GT--- could you post the boss302.com link... ?? go to Trans Am racing on their site, then search " I have a theory.. " or something like that... 6-7 pages of informative reading and VERY CONVINCING proof and PHOTOS!! (yes, Bigfoot and Santa Claus, too! ) ------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/15/2012 at 7:26pm
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------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: Javelin_GT
Date Posted: Jan/15/2012 at 7:27pm
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This thread is mostly about using dominators in the 1969 TA season. The last entry on page 5 shows the AMC factory part number and picture of the AMC TUnnel Ram. http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=46746.0 - http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=46746.0
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Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/15/2012 at 7:39pm
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Thanks Javelin GT.... There were 12 T/A races in '69..... Javelin entries were; 4 in Michigan,4 Lime Rock, 4 Mid-Ohio, 4 Bridgehampton, 4 Donnybrooke, 3 Bryar (no Grable- wrecked in practice I THINK ).. 3 St. Jovite, 3 Watkins Glen, 3 Laguna Seca, 3 Kent, 4 Sears Point, 4 Riverside..... from Dave Friedman's book, "Trans Am, the Pony Car Wars" ------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: 68TA#4
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 12:13am
Yes, two more Javelins were built for the for the '69 season. There were more changes than just the flares. Roll Cages are slightly different as are the front and rear suspensions. Tullius drove the former Revson car for one race (Michigan). The rest of the season Ron Hunter raced that car as an independent. Ted Roberts ran the former Follmer as an independent in '69. The irony is that after Ron Hunter died in the mid to late eighties his wife contacted Ted Roberts about the old (Javelin) race car Ron Hunter still had and Ted bought it to go vintage racing. Ted had sold the ex Follmer car in '73. Ted Roberts also purchased one of the leftover '69 Javelins to run in '70 (Fire Fyter sponsored) as an independent. ------------- Always looking for info, old photos, ect. related to '68 Trans Am Javelins |
Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 9:58am
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So the two '69 TA cars are still around somewhere?
Is the Craig Jackson car ('69 with a '70 nose and updated rear flares) one of them, seems like nobody knows the origins of that car.
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Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 12:56pm
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I've never seen the car personally; I believe Javelin GT has though.... I'm pretty sure it probably is one. I don't really get why someoneone who obviously KNOWS it's a '69, (taillights, paint scheme) would not have the car restored correctly!?! It's not like he doesn't have the money... It's my opinion that there should be at least 2 other true '69's out there... Old pics in old mags taken in Kaplan's shop discussing the upcoming '69 season show 3 cars being built... There is also a pic in the Dave Friedman book on pg 146 of Gordon Dewar in a flared/bulged hood '69 at Watkin Glen... It's not likely to be either of the old '68 cars, (Roberts or Hunter) because both of those cars race later in the season, still in '68 style trim.. ------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 1:14pm
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I saw the Craig Jackson car this summer at Road America. I did not unfortunately get a look under the hood, nor did I crawl under the car, so I got nothin'. Adam has piles of great pictures in his photobucket account.
One of the'69 RKE cars was shipped out of the country, Australia I think.
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Posted By: 70amcpwr
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 2:07pm
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1969 dealer price book, $600 new front suspension for Trans am homogilation (sp?). I have an unrestored 1969 shell w/the new suspension front clip. ------------- 70amcpwr You just can't fix stupid. SOLD 1970 BBO Javelin, wifes 73 AMX 360 4spd. Next project 1969 AMX |
Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 2:10pm
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Would love to see a pic! Please..... ------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: Javelin_GT
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 2:10pm
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"
I have an unrestored 1969 shell w/the new suspension front clip." This would be interesting to see. Any plans for it?
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Posted By: 70amcpwr
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 2:13pm
Does anyone know where the 1970 #9 "test mule" went? Have a picture of it at Bryars in 1970 w/ engine failure durring testing. Lost them all that weekend . ------------- 70amcpwr You just can't fix stupid. SOLD 1970 BBO Javelin, wifes 73 AMX 360 4spd. Next project 1969 AMX |
Posted By: Javelin_GT
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 2:14pm
That is the current 1970 Javelin being run in vintage circles by Bruce Canepa. |
Posted By: fast401
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 2:24pm
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The 68 race at Michigan was tragic to say the least. One of the cars locked up its brakes coming into the corner and crashed into the infield killing several. I saw the accident after the fact. The raceway had not finished construction and IIRC there were no real barricades. The people that perished were in a Javelin trying to stay out of the rain. ------------- Disturbing the peace since 1970!!! AMX 19245 Facebook page - AMC Nation www.fast-401.4t.com |
Posted By: crazyamc
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 2:30pm
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There are 3 very promptly taken pics of the '69 Michigan crash on camaros.org Go to Trans Am Racing, then find the Michigan pics...... I think 1 AMC employee/dealer Durwood Fletcher was the only fatality- but some of the others may have succumb later..... there's about 3 street cars that took the brunt- BIG TIME smashed... tragic for sure. ------------- Ronnie Kaplan Engineering :) |
Posted By: fast401
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 2:44pm
Correct. It was the 69 race. Hey that's what happens when you get old ------------- Disturbing the peace since 1970!!! AMX 19245 Facebook page - AMC Nation www.fast-401.4t.com |
Posted By: 343sharpstick
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 3:28pm
Do you (or anyone) have scans of the 1969 dealer price book, probably a few more initeresting nuggets in there related to SCCA TA and NHRA ProStock Homologation parts that AMC bult very few of!?
 |
Posted By: 70amcpwr
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 6:02pm
I do have it somewhere, still digging out from a move a year and a half ago. Here's an interesting letter sent to my dad at our dealership after the terrible showing at Bryars that year. Didn't know of the offer until I read the letter years latter. Unfortunately my dad pasted before I had a chance to talke to him about alot of this stuff. ------------- 70amcpwr You just can't fix stupid. SOLD 1970 BBO Javelin, wifes 73 AMX 360 4spd. Next project 1969 AMX |
Posted By: Javelin_GT
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 6:09pm
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A guy named Buzz Dyer owns that Fyr Fyter Javelin now. I have an original press kit for it. Cool letter!!
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Posted By: 70amcpwr
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 6:13pm
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There isn't anything at http://www.camaros.org - www.camaros.org except restoration info.? ------------- 70amcpwr You just can't fix stupid. SOLD 1970 BBO Javelin, wifes 73 AMX 360 4spd. Next project 1969 AMX |
Posted By: Javelin_GT
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 6:15pm
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You have to check out the individual races for Javelin pics. http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?board=19.0 - http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?board=19.0
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Posted By: 70amcpwr
Date Posted: Jan/16/2012 at 6:26pm
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On page 68 of Larry Mitchell's AMC Buyers Guide it states "Late in 1969, the new 1970 front double ball joint suspension was offered on the Javelin as a $600 "performance upgrade". At least I have that for now. ------------- 70amcpwr You just can't fix stupid. SOLD 1970 BBO Javelin, wifes 73 AMX 360 4spd. Next project 1969 AMX |
Posted By: WesternRed
Date Posted: Jan/17/2012 at 8:26pm
Just saw this, I have certainly heard a few rumors that one of the race cars came to Australia, but my understanding is that it never raced here back in the day. It would make sense that it was a used car because I did see something along the lines of nothing "virgin" being sent down here.
Could this be the car?
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3177576/1969-amc-javelin#3177576_4 - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3177576/1969-amc-javelin#3177576_4
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Posted By: Javelin_GT
Date Posted: Jan/18/2012 at 3:48am
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I always hear a rumor that a Javelin or two was built by Kaplan and sent un-assembled in shipping crates to Australia. I asked Kaplan about this a couple years ago and he doesnt remember that but allot of his memory is fuzzy. Thanks for that link. I have never seen pictures of that car before. It does look pretty similar to the Kaplan Javelin mid way down this page. http://www.classicone.com/teamamx/ocar/ta.htm - http://www.classicone.com/teamamx/ocar/ta.htm
I also have never seen or heard about the Kaplan car in the link I posted. I have heard a rumor where one of the 69 T/A Javelin was involved in a insurance scam and supposedly was burnt up in a fire. But that debate needs its own thread.
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Posted By: 68TA#4
Date Posted: Jan/18/2012 at 9:11pm
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I remember talking to the guy that use to own the '69 #3 on the Team AMX site. His name was Andy Scopazzi, think he traded or sold to a Tony Perara or Jeff King. Are those photos on the Team AMX site from a vintage race at Watkins Glen in the mid 90's? I heard that it had been stolen soon after that event and that it had a large insurance policy on it. I never heard anything else about that car. I just wonder if it was recovered and that it is now the Craig Jackson Javelin restored to '70 specs. ------------- Always looking for info, old photos, ect. related to '68 Trans Am Javelins |
Posted By: AMCAMX390
Date Posted: Jun/14/2018 at 1:28am
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Its along time between drinks on the subject which I've just found. The comments on a RKE car being sold to Australia caught my attention. The following is the story of that car that came down under. I doubt if it was one of the RKE race cars. In 1968 John Caddy of VIS Con Transport in Darwin talked to Harry Tedstone, the American Motors representative at AMI (AMI were the Australian AMC assembler) in in Port Melbourne. Harry Tedstone's long time friend Carl Chuckmakian had been involved with the introduction of Trans-Am racing to AMC. John Caddy's idea was to campaign a Javelin in the Australian Touring car championship (Simliar to Transam) as two-door cars were allowed to be used and the engine size limit allowed the 390 cu.in. to be used. A car duly arrived, supposedly it was prepared by Ronnie Kaplan. Two 20' containers arrived in Perth and were transported by Vis Con's own trailer by road. When the containers were opened container one had a base line Javelin with optional suspension, 390 engine and T-10, traction bars by factory and heavy duty front sway bar but it was not race prepared in any way. The second container had a Kaplan prepared 390 engine with headers, cross ram etc., flared front fenders, hood to clear the engine, racing brakes for front and rear, Panhard bar, beefed up suspension arms, quick ratio PS, 15" wheels without tyres. It was all there but not assembled. This was not what John Caddy had expected to arrive. He had expected a turn key car with spare engine ready to race. After many phone calls to Chuckmakian he agreed to have Kaplan help in any way he could across the pacific. John Caddy had his mechanics assemble the car and near the end of 1969 the Javelin was beginning to look like a race car. Then Ronnie Kaplan quit, Roger Penske took over the team to prepare the cars for 1970. John Caddy did not have an agreement with Penske. His agreement for help was from Kaplan, with Kaplan gone, so was the help. As the 1970 season began in Australia the car that could have beaten the Jags and maybe the Mustangs sat dejected in a corner of the Vis Con workshop in Darwin. Eventually Caddy had the car de-tuned and painted gold for the street and drove it for 10 years around Darwin still LHD, the hot 390 was raced in a boat in NT and Queensland. This Javelin now resides in Melbourne is painted Red, White & Blue with a new motor and is used in club events. Hope that helps with the Oz car mystery
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Posted By: hdljet
Date Posted: Sep/30/2021 at 4:41pm
| The # 9 mule Javelin became the University of Pittsburg javelin. Bob Fryer sold it to Brook Mossgrove in 1984 . Brook rebodied the car back to a 1970 Javelin and restored it to a # 6 Javelin. I followed Brooks restoration of the car. I bought the rest of the University of Pittsburgh’s team parts including my Bobby Allison NASCAR engine. I also bought a lot of the mule parts that were documented in “The Unfair Advantage”. Ie the rear end with universals on it to change camber. I sold off the extra parts to Dana Bernabio in 1986. |
Posted By: AMCAMX390
Date Posted: Sep/30/2021 at 10:10pm
| This post has prompted me to update. Mention is made in this forum of a race prepared Javelin being shipped to Australia. Since my last post 3 years ago I have come across magazine/newspaper snippets of a race prepared Javelin being spotted at Melbourne wharves late 1969. No Javelin ever raced in Oz but I'm still searching to get to the bottom of this saga. |