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Headers for a 258 in a Concord

Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: AMC 6 Cylinder Engine Repair and Modifications
Forum Description: AMC-made I-6 engine mechanical, ignition and fuel from basic repair to high-perf modifications
URL: http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=102678
Printed Date: Aug/08/2020 at 4:31pm


Topic: Headers for a 258 in a Concord
Posted By: Mr_AMC
Subject: Headers for a 258 in a Concord
Date Posted: Nov/04/2019 at 11:53am
Anyone find a listing for headers that WILL fit in the Hornet/Concord body correctly??
 
Thanks



Replies:
Posted By: Mr_AMC
Date Posted: Nov/04/2019 at 5:08pm
I see tons listed to fit Jeep..
 I guess I will CALL Clifford, and see what they say.
 
 


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/05/2019 at 7:06am
The shorty Clifford header will fit. A 4.0L XJ Cherokee header will fit if you're using a 4.0L head. I mention this because it costs about the same to swap over to a 4.0L head and factory header than to buy a new Clifford.


-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: Mr_AMC
Date Posted: Nov/05/2019 at 7:51am
WOW, thank you..
NEXT engine I might have to do that.  I have a remanufactured engine with a warranty, so I don't want to swap out the head just now.. 
How much difference DOES the 4.0 Head make on a 258?? 
 
Thanks


Posted By: Ollie
Date Posted: Nov/05/2019 at 8:07am
I wish you the best of luck with the Clifford headers. Plan on adding extra welding to the flange faces. Use a Rem-Flex intake/exhaust gasket. The gasket Clifford supplies will not last long.

Having AMC Fun,
Ollie


-------------
1966 American Convertible -- "The Rambler"
1974 Postal Jeep -- "Rapid Delivery"
1969 Rambler 220 post car--"Road Warrior"


Posted By: Mr_AMC
Date Posted: Nov/05/2019 at 8:53am
Yes, what year is your Concord? 

72 and up use 57-2300
66 to 71 with starter under the intake is 57-0430

Both cost the same. $399.00.

Larry 6=8


Posted By: Mr_AMC
Date Posted: Nov/05/2019 at 8:55am
Ollie..
Do you know of another brand that will have less problems???
 
Thanks


Posted By: Ollie
Date Posted: Nov/05/2019 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Mr_AMC Mr_AMC wrote:

Ollie..
Do you know of another brand that will have less problems???
 
Thanks

I have Clifford headers on my 232(1974) in an American. Get with Larry when you order them; tell him that you know the faces are not welded good and that you want them correct or you will send them back.
One light weld bead that he puts on will not seal good. 

They way he tells you to bend washers for the flange bolts will not work. You need to get you some thick schedule 80 washers and grind them till they fit good. Tell him to keep all his hardware and gaskets. 

Use a Rem-Flex gasket and follow there directions and you will be ok. 

I don't think there is any thing else out there. 

Having AMC Fun,
Ollie


-------------
1966 American Convertible -- "The Rambler"
1974 Postal Jeep -- "Rapid Delivery"
1969 Rambler 220 post car--"Road Warrior"


Posted By: Mr_AMC
Date Posted: Nov/05/2019 at 10:19am
COOL   Thanks for the useful advice  
I guess in TRUTH, a 258 doesn't rev high enough to justify headers, of so I have been told..
 but I want true DUAL exhaust..


Posted By: Mr_AMC
Date Posted: Nov/05/2019 at 10:24am
http://catalog.remflex.com/AMC_Jeep_Header_Exhaust_Manifold_Gasket_p/10-003.htm" rel="nofollow - http://catalog.remflex.com/AMC_Jeep_Header_Exhaust_Manifold_Gasket_p/10-003.htm


Posted By: Ollie
Date Posted: Nov/05/2019 at 11:08am
Originally posted by Mr_AMC Mr_AMC wrote:

http://catalog.remflex.com/AMC_Jeep_Header_Exhaust_Manifold_Gasket_p/10-003.htm" rel="nofollow - http://catalog.remflex.com/AMC_Jeep_Header_Exhaust_Manifold_Gasket_p/10-003.htm

That's the gasket.

I will say one thing in defense of the headers.......my 232 sounds awesome with them and some turbo mufflers. Everyone thinks its a small V-8.

Having AMC Fun,
Ollie


-------------
1966 American Convertible -- "The Rambler"
1974 Postal Jeep -- "Rapid Delivery"
1969 Rambler 220 post car--"Road Warrior"


Posted By: matty 401
Date Posted: Nov/05/2019 at 4:43pm
i turn 5000 with my 258 when i had my 77 AMX  258 4 speed dump the clutch about 32-3800  not sure where my 79 concord winds to lol

-------------
72 matador 401 the beast
79 concord 2 door
72 matador 304 grasshopper
68 Rogue 360
93 Cherokee 2wd 4.0 5 speed


Posted By: Pdok
Date Posted: Nov/05/2019 at 5:01pm
x10 on the RemFlex gaskets... I can't believe I never knew about them, but they are better than anything else I've ever used.  The Clifford gaskets went in the trash.  I've had both 4.2 and 4.0 headers from clifford, no problems with either one bolting right up.  BUT, they are plain steel, so plan ahead to have them coated somehow.

And, header w/single flowmaster pro series muffler sounds awesome...


-------------
76 Grem X 258/904,4.0 head/MPFI, Comp X250H cam, Hughes springs, Clifford header, serpentine swap.


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/06/2019 at 6:16am
How much does a 4.0L head add? It depends on the build. The head and mandatory header alone won't add more than 5-10 hp depending on the rest of the exhaust system, and that hp will be mostly near the top end due to the added flow. You will get a little torque increase at the low end due to the better shaped ports. All these articles about bolting on 20-25 hp and such by swapping the head are misleading. They have to be swapping the EFI with the head for that kind of an increase. The head will flow a LOT better than any of the 258 heads. Even though the ports are smaller, they are much better shaped so flow much better. The ports are raised to have a better arc into the cylinder, for one thing. The 258 big ports have a near 90 degree turn into the cylinder, and have lots of turbulence in them - intake and exhaust. You can get 20-25 hp with the head -- and a better cam, intake, and carb that will make use of the added flow. Or the EFI, assuming you're replacing a stock BBD 2V and stock ignition system (that may not be running well).

You can get the parts cheap enough for the EFI from a junkyard now, so it's not an expensive (or hard) swap. But if you prefer a carb you're on the right track. The aluminum factory 2V intake with a MC2100 or 2150 is an upgrade over the stock iron intake and WCD or BBD carbs. An Offy DP 4V intake and a 390-450 cfm 4V carb might be better, depends on what you're doing. A Weber 32/36 is great for economy and a little more power since it's a progressive carb (runs on the 32, the 36 barrel opens as needed, like a 4V). Depends on what you want from the car.

I only recommend the 4.0L head due to the high cost of Clifford 258 headers and the fact that you can run the factory header, and there are many aftermarket 4.0L header options. That and if you have a 258 head that needs rebuilding anyway, or plan on building a performance six. You get a much better aluminum or steel valve cover (later model 4.0L is steel) to boot. Add the cost of an aftermarket VC and header up...


-------------
Frank Swygert


Posted By: Mr_AMC
Date Posted: Nov/07/2019 at 12:18pm
The sound of the headers and dual exhaust is the MAIN reason I want them..
Glad to hear that you think they sound awesome..

Thanks


Posted By: g-man
Date Posted: Nov/07/2019 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Mr_AMC Mr_AMC wrote:

The sound of the headers and dual exhaust is the MAIN reason I want them...

I am with you on that.
I have a '77 Gremlin (exact same engine bay as a Hornet/Gremlin) with a '74 258 w/ .030 overbore, mild cam, slight CR increase, mild head work, with Clifford headers that we built back in the early '90's. The car had dual 2-chamber Flowmasters with 2 1/4" non-mandrel bent tubing. The exhaust went up & over the rear axle, and then ended right there shooting out at a 45 degree angle.
I had people arguing with me that I had a V-8 under the hood...I would literally have to open the hood to get them to shut up!
On the other hand, the damn things hit everything taller than an ant on the road, with the car being stock height. Definitely get shorties no matter what you do! 
And then nowadays, I have heard from many sources, including here (just ask Ollie), that Clifford's quality has gone way down. It is unfortunate that you're stuck with the 258 head. I can tell you that when I freshen this Gremlin and put it back on the road, we will only be using the 4.0 head, and won't have to have header problems anymore, in addition to the better flowing head.
Maybe you can find a used Clifford header, and just use the flange, and find a used 4.0 shorty header, and cut off the flange of the 4.0 header and put them together somehow?
Good luck with whatever you end up doing. 
Keep us posted,

g-man


-------------
AMC only daily driver


Posted By: g-man
Date Posted: Nov/08/2019 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by g-man g-man wrote:

The car had dual 2-chamber Flowmasters with 2 1/4" non-mandrel bent tubing. The exhaust went up & over the rear axle, and then ended right there shooting out at a 45 degree angle.

Forgot to mention that the exhaust has an "H" pipe.
It sounds redundant, but definitely install an H-pipe on your system.
The only thing I would change is: when I put it back on the road, I will change the H-pipe to an "X" pipe.
A lot of people will tell you that it's a waste of time...but I tell you that it is definitely worth the effort!

g-man  


-------------
AMC only daily driver


Posted By: Mr_AMC
Date Posted: Nov/14/2019 at 2:42pm
wondering   Does the H or X pipe setup make a difference in the sound?? or the performance??


Posted By: g-man
Date Posted: Nov/14/2019 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by Mr_AMC Mr_AMC wrote:

wondering   Does the H or X pipe setup make a difference in the sound?? or the performance??

Both. The H pipe equalizes the exhaust pulses between both sides of the separate exhaust pipes. It will create an audible difference. A bit of a more melodious sound.
The X pipe simply does it more efficiently, as it does not create turbulence in the exhaust flow. Exhaust has a real tough time making 90 degree turns.

g-man


-------------
AMC only daily driver


Posted By: Ollie
Date Posted: Nov/14/2019 at 3:30pm
I must say my 232 with the Clifford headers sounds awesome and everyone thinks its a V8.

 I have no H or X pipe because its a convertible. There is an extra plate, across the frame,  just in back of the transmission. It gave my muffler man h_ll, but he did it. We used some cheapo turbo mufflers.

The 'vert sounds way better than "The 69", but going down the road it is more better to listen to some rock and roll on the stereo, something that cannot be done in the 'vert. i.e. because of all the top wind noise and the sweet mellow sound of exhaust. I guess both conditions are winners....Wink

Having AMC Fun,
Ollie


-------------
1966 American Convertible -- "The Rambler"
1974 Postal Jeep -- "Rapid Delivery"
1969 Rambler 220 post car--"Road Warrior"


Posted By: farna
Date Posted: Nov/14/2019 at 3:31pm
Great answer! The X is just harder to fit under most cars. With an H pipe the cross over pipe doesn't have to be the same size, though it usually is since that's easier. I have seen 2.5" duals with a 1.5" crossover so it fit without dropping too much on a low car. The smaller crossover is still effective. 

-------------
Frank Swygert



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