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Replace or repair quarter?

Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: Body/Interior
Forum Description: Paint, glass, interior, rust, sheetmetal goes here.
URL: https://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=101377
Printed Date: Mar/28/2024 at 3:19am
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Topic: Replace or repair quarter?
Posted By: mbwicz
Subject: Replace or repair quarter?
Date Posted: Aug/11/2019 at 6:54pm
when I traveled to get my ‘rust free’ 70 AMX, I saw it had quarters put on it. What I didn’t realize until stripping the car is that they were put on pretty poorly. I’m hoping you can zoom in on the pic. 
  Just below the tape is a groove that was ground in the quarter. He actual seam is a couple of inches below the tape. The inner section next to the trunk pan was also replaced. 
  The shape of the wheel opening is off, and the bottom of the quarter isn’t flat. The rear panel under the bumper hasn’t been fit (the holes were filled with bondo). 
  So, at what point do I decide to get new panels and start over?


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1970 AMX, one step forward, one step back. Both steps cost time and money.



Replies:
Posted By: brownspirit
Date Posted: Aug/11/2019 at 7:42pm
I’d redo that, no reason to put a decent paint job over that sort of repair.  The lowers rear patches are about $200 I think and it is a pretty straight forward job if you have a mig welder.  Andy

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69' BBB AMX 390/4-speed

69' s/crambler project

69’ International F210d Cummins/5+4


Posted By: tyrodtom
Date Posted: Aug/11/2019 at 8:48pm
It looks like a panel that had collision damage and a rust repair.

And maybe a home made patch,  that didn't go nearly high enough.
I've got nothing against home made patch panels,  I do a lot myself.
But I've got a Mig, Tig, English wheel, plandishing hammer , beading tool, shrinker/stretcher, etc., 30 or so body hammers and dollies, and 45 years of using them.

 Maybe also welded,  probably with a mig,  but in too big a rush.

You can get serious warping, even with a mig,  if you don't use a sensible welding plan,  and pause ever few welds and let the panel cool. 

It'd probably be better with another panel welded on,   I'll bet behind that welding around the wheelwell edge there's a bird's nest of welding wire .


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66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.


Posted By: mixed up
Date Posted: Aug/12/2019 at 12:02am
if you can get a good repair panel then I would replace as much as possible it save time on body work and make for a much longer lasting repair for no rust issues

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69 amx 290 auto
65 220 290 4spd
80 ford fairmont


Posted By: mramc
Date Posted: Aug/12/2019 at 6:44pm
Use the lower patch repair panels. They work and I've not scene a good use full quarter panel in about 10 years. LRDaum



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LRDaum


Posted By: hassyfoto
Date Posted: Aug/13/2019 at 2:31am
I would must likely replace the lower area with the replacement panels available from the AMC vendors. This would allow you to clean up or remove any other imperfections or rust ( at the pinch welds). Taking a chance on possible bad, poor or incomplete prior welds would also be eliminated.

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Murphy's Law:
Any given mechanical job you decide to solve alone will imminently require a third hand, at its most critical moment



Posted By: Steve_P
Date Posted: Aug/14/2019 at 8:06am
Patch panel from the AMC vendors


Posted By: 6PakBee
Date Posted: Aug/14/2019 at 9:46am
Here is what my "rust free" AMX looked like when I picked it up.  I feel your pain.




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Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach


Posted By: mbwicz
Date Posted: Aug/14/2019 at 9:51am
Is there just one manufacturer of patch panels, or does someone have better panels? I see that Kennedy and APD both have similar prices and descriptions, so I'm guessing they are selling the same panel.

I'm assuming that I want to avoid the 'economy grade' ebay patch panels.


Thanks for confirming my gut feel, do this stuff right.

Mike



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1970 AMX, one step forward, one step back. Both steps cost time and money.


Posted By: Steve_P
Date Posted: Aug/15/2019 at 7:53am
The 3 main AMC vendors all sell the same panel- I believe that they share tooling costs up front and then sell the part at the same price. They do this with most, or all, of the reproduction parts. Avoid the Ebay and generic panels that some guy is hammering out on his picnic table.

Edit: you now have to modify your signature


Posted By: mbwicz
Date Posted: Aug/15/2019 at 11:35am
Signature updated (play sad trombone sounds here)…...


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1970 AMX, one step forward, one step back. Both steps cost time and money.


Posted By: Steve_P
Date Posted: Aug/15/2019 at 11:49am
When you cut out the original lower panel I bet you'll find rust on the inside. If so, you should do the other side as well. In most climates, they also rust from the inside out if the outside in doesn't take them out first.


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Aug/15/2019 at 12:08pm
That's why when you first see the bubble in the paint and think, Aw, I got time..... it's just now started - think again. It's just now showing, but it's been going a while.

The "drain" areas get blocked and plugged, you get dirt, sand, moisture, road stuff, whatever, trapped in there and it rots from the inside out. It's almost always worse on the back side of the quarter than what you see on the outside surface because the crud trapped against the back leaves a nice breeding ground for rust critters.

In this case the car had really small tiny bubble areas down lows and no real holes........... the outside didn't look too bad - look now - 




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Posted By: mbwicz
Date Posted: Aug/15/2019 at 12:48pm
My frustration was that a specialist AMC restoration shop had the panels replaced several years ago (4-5 years). And they were finished with almost 1/4" of bondo in some places. The car was never finished, just sprayed with flat black that kinda matched the 30 year old black paint on the car. So I don't expect to see any rust, just cutting out someone elses hack job. But I won't know for sure until they are apart.

Just gotta do it right.

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1970 AMX, one step forward, one step back. Both steps cost time and money.


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Aug/15/2019 at 1:28pm
When the patch panels went on my 70 back in 2006/2007 they were welded on with such precision that no "bondo" was needed. The welds were ground and sanded flush and a skin coat used, then simply a higher build primer, then blocking. 
On the inside it was so perfect that the welds were ground a bit, then I primed and used the correct trunk paint to touch-up the repair areas. You won't find filler cracking loose on the quarters - there really isn't any. 
A good welder can do it almost to perfection.
Sounds like the "restoration" wasn't really that at all......... 
In any case, if they didn't treat that metal after welding, IMO all bets are off.
Steel seems to want to rust close to welded areas. And if they left any rust, or didn't convert it, well..... it's like removing a tumor but leaving a bit around the edges - to return and grow again. 
You can't just cut, weld, bondo, paint and call it good. You must remove and/or treat any traces of rust.

Note in pic - the paint left on the quarter was left on purpose to show it didn't get too hot. The weld line is just below the paint line. 
And in the trunk, a bit more sanding, treating the metal, converting all traces of surface rust, priming and then correct (NOT RATTLE CAN) trunk paint and it's been good for over a dozen years now. 











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Posted By: shelbycoleman
Date Posted: Aug/16/2019 at 8:28am
This is why quality shops don't give quotes on old cars. The truth never comes out until the car comes back form the blaster. Time and materials is the only way to do a old car. Anyone who thinks they can quote one of these jobs is only setting their self up for failure and will end up doing less then a quality job in the end.


Posted By: First_Gear
Date Posted: Aug/16/2019 at 9:58am
I always end up with a few pinholes now matter how careful I am welding. Make sure you take care of those before you paint. Often you can't see em without a flashlight on the other side with the lights off. Honestly I just blast them and fill them with JB weld. We are talking almost microscopic holes. I've tried welding them closed but it always opens up a can of worms.


Posted By: target
Date Posted: Aug/16/2019 at 12:49pm
Yep. I use the light behind it in the dark trick too. Clean it good with a wire wheel first so they all show up. Then weld them up. I then put por15 patch on the front and sand off the excess. Put it on the back side too if I can get to it. Epoxy the front prior to any other work while the patch is still sticky to the touch.


Posted By: mmaher94087
Date Posted: Aug/16/2019 at 6:47pm
I laugh at the restoration dude on TV when he gives a quote for a job.  His 'restorations' aren't restorations but they are refinished 'things' and he charges enough money that he could buy another item if there was an irreversible screw-up.

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Mike


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: Aug/16/2019 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by shelbycoleman shelbycoleman wrote:

This is why quality shops don't give quotes on old cars. The truth never comes out until the car comes back form the blaster. Time and materials is the only way to do a old car. Anyone who thinks they can quote one of these jobs is only setting their self up for failure and will end up doing less then a quality job in the end.


Even in not all that old cars you can run into troubles - prior damage from accidents, etc. I've gotten into that myself (when fixing some holes in the boss's wrecker)

In the case of my car, lights were used, no holes found but the guy was meticulous so it didn't surprise me.  When things were smoothed down, the metal was there.

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