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no dip stick!

Printed From: TheAMCForum.com
Category: The Garage
Forum Name: AMC V8 Engine Repair and Modifications
Forum Description: AMC-made V8 engine mechanical, ignition and fuel from basic repair to high-perf modifications
URL: http://theamcforum.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=100021
Printed Date: Jul/12/2020 at 9:10pm


Topic: no dip stick!
Posted By: Stev-o
Subject: no dip stick!
Date Posted: May/15/2019 at 5:47pm
Hi all....my buddy just bought a '68 AMX [long story] and I was testing it for him, went to check the oil and couldnt find the dip stick or tube! WTF?!

Anyways, after a little research and talking to a Javelin owner at a "Cars and Coffee" show a couple weeks ago, the dip stick should be near the master cylinder, but it is not there.
The car has headers and from what I've been told is they may have been in the way and either not installed or broke off.

I'm in search of the did stick and tube, may have found one, how much of a job will it be to install it?
This concerns me as I dont want to blow the 390 motor, it was recently rebuilt.

He bought the car at auction, does it look familiar?!

Thanks










Replies:
Posted By: Phitown Hustler
Date Posted: May/15/2019 at 6:03pm
I never use the ugly stock dipstick and PITA tube anymore. I either cut the stock stick down till its flush on the block and remark or use the Buick BB shorty style that seals against the block. Yup its hard to see and put back in but no more ugly AMC dipstick killing the view of coated headers and nice valve covers

http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA%5F1500D" rel="nofollow - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA%5F1500D


Posted By: THE MENACE
Date Posted: May/15/2019 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by Phitown Hustler Phitown Hustler wrote:

I never use the ugly stock dipstick and PITA tube anymore. I either cut the stock stick down till its flush on the block and remark or use the Buick BB shorty style that seals against the block. Yup its hard to see and put back in but no more ugly AMC dipstick killing the view of coated headers and nice valve covers

http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA%5F1500D" rel="nofollow - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA%5F1500D
 
To each his own, but when properly installed the OE AMC dipstick and tube is no uglier than any other OE dipstick/tube.
 
 Their not that tough to install either.  Years ago I made a very simple tool to install AMC dip stick tubes. Split a 1" long piece of small tubing that fit nicely around the dip stick tube, weld them to a small pair of vise grips, place the end of the split tubing against the dip stick tube flange and tap the side of the vise grips until the dip stick tube flange is against the block.      


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Home of:
Craig Breedlove' "AERO AMX" #1
SS/AMX #9(THE BIG MENACE)
1970 AMX 416,EFI,5 speed(Mine)   
1970 Javelin 401, 727 (My Wife's)
1969 AMX,390,Auto,Go Pac (My Mom's)


Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: May/15/2019 at 7:04pm
If the dip stick tube broke off in the block it won't be that easy to remove. Here is the location of the dip stick on my 68 AMX 390. 

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The most powerful tool is the question.


Posted By: ChillyB
Date Posted: May/15/2019 at 7:44pm
Some report that the commonly available dipstick tubes dont dit in the block. Apparently the sealing band diameters are too large.  I got one anyhow and swaged the bands down with a double flaring tool clamp.  Then sanded down just a bit to remove crimp marks.  Call it a $20 experiment..  If it doesnt work I'll buy one from Bulltear.  

Havent started assembly yet so cant say if it worked yet.  


Posted By: 304-dude
Date Posted: May/15/2019 at 7:50pm
I admit a Jeep dipstick looks a bit odd on an AMC. I did not mind the stock 73 dipstick, but my 71 has a Jeep dipstick installed, from the mid 90s rebuild. A wee too tall, and yellow.

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71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker


Posted By: billd
Date Posted: May/15/2019 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by ChillyB ChillyB wrote:

Some report that the commonly available dipstick tubes dont dit in the block. Apparently the sealing band diameters are too large.  I got one anyhow and swaged the bands down with a double flaring tool clamp.  Then sanded down just a bit to remove crimp marks.  Call it a $20 experiment..  If it doesnt work I'll buy one from Bulltear.  

Havent started assembly yet so cant say if it worked yet.  


Now there's a good idea - 
Can't say I've had horrible issues but the one in my 73 was a total disaster - the PO was NOT an AMC person and hacked everything he did so I ended up having to install things - with the engine in, headers and all. Worked but not thrilled. Have a spare bulltear stick/tube just in case. Will likely need more as I think the 401 I have to build is missing the stick and tube, too.

Have to keep the flare tool clamp idea in mind.

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http://theamcpages.com" rel="nofollow - http://theamcpages.com

http://antique-engines.com" rel="nofollow - http://antique-engines.com


Posted By: Someassemblyrqd
Date Posted: May/15/2019 at 11:48pm
Re: the car - it said to have originally sold for $52.5K after the car was showcased in a two-part series on tv.   It was apparently sold to a second owner after the show.

Are you the third owner since the rebuilding?  How’s it holding up?  Happy with the quality of craftsmanship?

Tell us more.



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Greg E.


Posted By: amxdreamer
Date Posted: May/16/2019 at 8:24am
This looks like the misfit garage car. They had a lot of misinformation on the show during the build.

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Tony
Vancouver, BC
1970 AMX
AMO#10333


Posted By: PHAT69AMX
Date Posted: May/16/2019 at 8:30am
Agree, definitely looks like the MisFit Garage / Fired Up Garage Car.
Would be interesting to know the inside scoop on that car and build.


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Link to a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MySiKQsmWxU" rel="nofollow - Short YouTube Burnout Video



Posted By: bigbad69
Date Posted: May/16/2019 at 8:41am
Originally posted by Stev-o Stev-o wrote:

The car has headers and from what I've been told is they may have been in the way and either not installed or broke off.
The dipstick will fit with headers, but tends to get roughed up a little while installing the headers. It's possible a PO got lazy and didn't bother installing the tube thinking the headers would prevent installation. It's also possible they got a little too rough on the tube, while installing the headers, and it cracked, then fell off at a later date.

As already mentioned, the dipstick tube is an interference fit in the block. The tubes currently available seem to have an overabundance of interference and can be nearly impossible to install with the engine in the car. There are a few threads in this section on how people have solved the problem.

Check to see if there is a broken end of a tube stuck in the block. A popular removal method is to screw in a sheet metal screw and hammer on the underside of the screw head.


Earlier V8s had no upper support bracket for the tube. A bracket was added later (not sure what model year) that may or may not work with the headers used in your car.


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My garage:
2018 300 5.7 - daily driver
2006 Sierra 4.8 - backup vehicle and sometimes hauler
1969 BBO Javelin 390 T10 - my neverending project


Posted By: mark09
Date Posted: May/16/2019 at 8:46am
Earlier heads did have support from a sheet metal heat shield . Later a tab was used when the shield was dropped. The tab works great with headers. 


Posted By: Midnight Rambler
Date Posted: May/16/2019 at 11:47am
Buy the Bulltear dipstick and tube, and use the bracket.  They even worked with my '66 Gen II engine after I straightened out the bottom of the tube (the hole in the oil baffle was changed in '67 so it didn't cross over the oil pickup in the pan).


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'66 American 440 Convertible 290/WC M-37/AMC 20 3.15/PS/PB
'04 Jeep Wrangler X Rocky Mountain Edition 4.0 5sp


Posted By: AMXFSTBK390
Date Posted: May/16/2019 at 12:46pm
Using the valve cover bracket helps clock the dip stick tube so the dip stick passes through the oil pan baffle opening for the dip stick without bumping the oil pan baffle.

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The most powerful tool is the question.


Posted By: Jmerican
Date Posted: May/16/2019 at 12:55pm
a television show type build with misinformation? Shocking. And no dipstick to check the oil? Just as shocking. Not. 


Posted By: scott
Date Posted: May/16/2019 at 4:16pm
The episodes where they built that car was on TV about a week ago, very early in the AM. I found it interesting that they bought the AMX from a gentleman by the name of Tony Lucas. Where have I heard that name before?


Posted By: Stev-o
Date Posted: May/16/2019 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by Someassemblyrqd Someassemblyrqd wrote:

Re: the car - it said to have originally sold for $52.5K after the car was showcased in a two-part series on tv.   It was apparently sold to a second owner after the show.

Are you the third owner since the rebuilding?  How’s it holding up?  Happy with the quality of craftsmanship?

Tell us more.


Yes, it's the Misfit car.   I've watched the show a few weeks ago but dont recall the sales price on the show nor do I know who bought it.

My friend bought it last month when we went to the Mecum auction in Houston, I advised him to buy it if the bidding did not go over $30K. [After a little research, I valued the car at $40K]

https://www.mecum.com/lots/HA0419-373158/1968-amc-amx/ 

The car was delivered to Greg's ranch 3 days after the auction, the battery was DOA upon arrival. I advised him to install a new, spare battery that he had and the car has started and run great since.

Greg travels a lot, and since I help care for his cars, I can drive whichever car in his collection I desire so I told his I would "test" the AMX for him!   I had the car for about a week. It runs great, sounds good but not as quick as I hoped a rebuilt 390 would be, possibly due the automatic trans?  [I'm comparing it to my '70 Corvette with a 350/4spd]

I prolly only put about 125 miles on the car that week but encountered no issues, I love the car!
The fit and finish of the body is beautiful, the interior is also excellent. However, I wish the seat were recovered a little bit more like stock, but that is just me.

My biggest beef is no dipstick!  The last thing I want to do is blow this motor up due to no oil.  And the gauges dont work, but that is typical of a classic car 50 yrs old.  Tach must have gone out many years ago as someone put a cheesy tach mounted on the dash [it doesnt operate correctly either]

Weather permitting, I may get the car this weekend, I want to drive it more and get a dipstick fix in place. 

Thx for the replies





Posted By: Stev-o
Date Posted: May/16/2019 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by Midnight Rambler Midnight Rambler wrote:

Buy the Bulltear dipstick and tube, and use the bracket.  They even worked with my '66 Gen II engine after I straightened out the bottom of the tube (the hole in the oil baffle was changed in '67 so it didn't cross over the oil pickup in the pan).

Guessing this is the part you are suggesting.

http://www.bulltear.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=190 - http://www.bulltear.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=190


Does the header need to be pulled?  I'm not currently with the car.

Thanks for all the replies, guys.


BTW - the Misfit episodes are available "On Demand" with DirecTV.  




Posted By: PHAT69AMX
Date Posted: May/17/2019 at 12:26pm
Replacement Dipstick Tubes must be checked for correct size OD of the swagged friction bumps.
0.334 inch OD is the correct size of the 2 friction bumps on the dipstick tube that go in the block
per the notes I have saved, best way is to somehow re-swage, but some sand or file down OD,
some even enlarge the hole in the block.

iirc I installed a new dipstick and tube after the motor was in the car and the headers installed.

Skuttlebutt is with an AMC, run 1/2 to 1 Quart Oil overfilled to avoid pumping Pan Dry
if any "spirited" driving is on the itinerary, since drain-back off the heads etc back to pan can be slow.

When I had a broken one for awhile, I had the top of the Dipstick Tube with the Stick in it in the car,
and a bolt in the other broke off half still in the block, would reach, crawl, etc,
remove bolt and put broken half and stick down in block and check oil !  Ha ! 

Wonder what rear end gears are in that car ?  Some gears might make it quicker.
Does it have a stall converter?  Is it still the Borg Warner Automatic?
Here's a curiosity that would be nice to know, what are the Front and Rear U-Joint Angles?
Believe it or not, stock AMC set-up is Trans and Pinion both angled DOWN by the same degree, iirc.
Found my '69 Pinion required shimmed down with 4 deg Leaf Spring Shims to get it right,
point being, you saying you'd hope it would be a little faster / quicker... looking to help that.
Wonder what "tune" is on it, what Advance Curve...
What's the induction set-up ?Saw the show last year, but forget.

Some Dipstick Info posted in a thread here:

http://theamcforum.com/forum/amc-backfiring_topic95175_post843226.html?KW=dipstick#843226" rel="nofollow - http://theamcforum.com/forum/amc-backfiring_topic95175_post843226.html?KW=dipstick#843226

Someone posted here and image from an orig AMC source U-Joint Angle Info:

http://theamcforum.com/forum/pinion-angle_topic97665_post859141.html?KW=ANGLE#859141" rel="nofollow - http://theamcforum.com/forum/pinion-angle_topic97665_post859141.html?KW=ANGLE#859141


-------------


Link to a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MySiKQsmWxU" rel="nofollow - Short YouTube Burnout Video



Posted By: Greyhounds_AMX
Date Posted: May/17/2019 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by Phitown Hustler Phitown Hustler wrote:

I never use the ugly stock dipstick and PITA tube anymore. I either cut the stock stick down till its flush on the block and remark or use the Buick BB shorty style that seals against the block. Yup its hard to see and put back in but no more ugly AMC dipstick killing the view of coated headers and nice valve covers

http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA%5F1500D" rel="nofollow - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA%5F1500D

With the Buick stick you still need a tube in the block to guide the stick to the right spot though, correct? So if you had a dipstick tube that was broken off at the block the Buick one might be a quick solution?
Or do you use it with no tube at all?

This seems interesting. To get my headers out I have to pull the tube out first, there's no other way. Mine comes out easy now, but still I'd rather not jack with it at all.


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1968 AMX 390 w/T5


Posted By: ChillyB
Date Posted: May/17/2019 at 3:25pm
The AMC dipsticks have a rubber cup that fits snugly over the end of the tube.  Seems like that rubber skirt is important to maintaining crankcase vacuum amd not sucking dirt into the engine.

If using a stubby shaft in a broken off stick I.dont think that rubber skirt will have anything to seal on. Probably noy a big deal but something to consider.  


Posted By: ChillyB
Date Posted: May/17/2019 at 3:37pm
Also, I have a stick from a 73 CJ5 and a tube that isnt best shape but I have no need for it.  If that is useful to you PM me.  Yours for shipping.  


Posted By: Greyhounds_AMX
Date Posted: May/17/2019 at 4:41pm
There are some pics here that give you a good view of where the dipstick tube is in relation to the block:

http://theamcforum.com/forum/my-390_topic99733.html" rel="nofollow - http://theamcforum.com/forum/my-390_topic99733.html


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1968 AMX 390 w/T5


Posted By: Ramzilla
Date Posted: May/21/2019 at 6:04pm
This may help those looking for dip stick tube. Yes broke my tube off trying to remove it to put headers on My SC Rambler so I could build the exhaust system. Looking at Summit web site they had a tube for a 401 for 5.99 so I thought what the heck give it a try. Well just received my new starter and dip stick tube today. Since motor is still in car not sure it the bottom end is correct. But the top end is a perfect match. Here is the part number OMX-1742402.
By the way is it possible with and easy out to remove the broken off dip stick from the top. Still working on front Suspension then rear end before motor comes out.


Posted By: Ramzilla
Date Posted: Jun/26/2019 at 5:25pm
Dipstick tube OMX-1742402 this is the tube I got from Summit. I was holding it up against my original top peace 1969 390. And I noticed something I did not notice before. That is the new tube is 1/4 inch shorter that means that the dipstick will go into oil pan a 1/4 inch farther. That means about 1/2 quart of oil difference. May need to mark a new line on dipstick a 1/4 inch above full. I think I will do what someone here suggested cut it in two and install a compression fitting making sure that 1/4 inch longer adjustment. Than it can be disconnected if headers need to be changed or put on after the headers. Not sure who had done that with theirs. Maybe it could be reposted again. Thanks Larry

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SC Rambler


Posted By: Midnight Rambler
Date Posted: Jun/26/2019 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by Ramzilla Ramzilla wrote:

Dipstick tube OMX-1742402 this is the tube I got from Summit. I was holding it up against my original top peace 1969 390. And I noticed something I did not notice before. That is the new tube is 1/4 inch shorter that means that the dipstick will go into oil pan a 1/4 inch farther. That means about 1/2 quart of oil difference. May need to mark a new line on dipstick a 1/4 inch above full. I think I will do what someone here suggested cut it in two and install a compression fitting making sure that 1/4 inch longer adjustment. Than it can be disconnected if headers need to be changed or put on after the headers. Not sure who had done that with theirs. Maybe it could be reposted again. Thanks Larry


I wouldn't do anything to the stick before I took a reading off it after an oil change.  If the marks are off with 5 fresh quarts (or whatever your preference), you could always just make new marks on the backside of the stick.  The depth of the tube isn't important, just having an accurate mark on the stick is.


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'66 American 440 Convertible 290/WC M-37/AMC 20 3.15/PS/PB
'04 Jeep Wrangler X Rocky Mountain Edition 4.0 5sp


Posted By: Stev-o
Date Posted: Sep/08/2019 at 2:24pm
Hey guys...thanks for all the replies and info.   Took the AMX to the local Cars/Coffee event a couple weeks ago, put a half quart of oil in it prior, just to be safe.  Car ran flawless.
My buddy and his Dad were there with their AMX and Javelin, snapped a crappy piture of the three cars together.
He had a spare dipstick tube bracket in new cond and gave it to me, ya meet good people driving AMX's!
I have ordered the Bultear tube and dipstick and plan to install it soon so I can check oil level and not worry about blowing the motor due to no oil.
I'll update the thread once it's in.  Thanks







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