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Possible Custom Upper Control Arms 71-74 Javelin |
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bulletpruf
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Oct/06/2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Status: Offline Points: 1405 |
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Posted: Jul/03/2014 at 10:10pm |
Fellas -
Talking to someone who is interested in fabbing upper control arms for 71-74 Javelins. He has a well-equipped shop and is in Northern California. What I think I'm looking for - -Something compatible with stock suspension bits on a 71-74 Javelin and other cars that use this UCA. -Something that would work on a street car, street/race car, or all out road race car. -Stronger -Lighter -Adjustable -Reasonable price A few questions - -Is anyone else producing these? I'm thinking there is one person who is making these but they aren't adjustable and/or don't improve geometry much over factory pieces? -Thoughts about specifications? Material? -Anyone have a decent model of an aftermarket UCA (e.g., something from a 67-69 Camaro, Corvette, etc) to model this after? -Anyone willing to donate/loan out a few UCAs to use as a pattern? Scott
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Please check out my YouTube channel for vintage car and truck shenanigans! https://www.youtube.com/@THEBULLETPROOFGARAGE
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Buzzman72
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/15/2009 Location: Southern IN Status: Offline Points: 2726 |
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Check with Al at Control Freak:
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Buzzman72...void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, and alcohol may intensify any side effects.
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FuzzFace2
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2007 Location: Angier, N.C. Status: Offline Points: 10356 |
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Why would you need to make them adjustable when all the adjustments are on the lower arm?
Now if they are made to improve geometry much over factory pieces could you set it to stock settings also?
my .02
Dave ----
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TSM = Technical Service Manual
75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
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alber1x
AMC Nut Joined: Feb/19/2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Why reinvent the wheel (or arm)? We already have these on the shelf and ready to go.
Al |
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Al Kamhi
Control Freak Suspensions Winter Springs, FL 888-325-6462 407-696-2772 www.FreakRide.com Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FreakRide |
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Slate
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/28/2012 Location: Airyzona Status: Offline Points: 2784 |
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I like the idea, particularly where the opportunity is to expand choices.
What I've personally been looking for, but don't know if this thinking is in the tiny minority, is a control arm that improves stock geometry ( longer ), and which doesn't look like the majority of aftermarket arms but more like the original. More specifically, not looking for alonger copy of the stock piece but looking for a: sealed arm ( no hollow round tube affair ), that is solid looking. Could be made from outer tubes ( prefer square tubes )all tied together including the balljoint tab, with aluminum, steel, or carbon fiber. Adjustable across a wide range. Steve
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Rogue401
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/26/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 1280 |
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I think a 66-69 ( and American) lower control arm with more caster built in (moving the lower ball joint forward 1"?) would be more useful at least to me. I'd also like to come up with a way of eliminating or relocating the strut rod to eliminate the bind and free up room for the exhaust. An adjustable upper would let you set caster without an adjustable the strut rod. I know there are rod end strut rods available, but they must be nasty on the street.
According to one of my Trans-Am books, Ronnie Kaplan was moving the inner spring tower to the rear and tilting the rear upper control arm mounts down to get some anti-dive. Apparently the stock geometry doesn't have any. There was actually a part number for the modified inner fender panel.
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bulletpruf
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Oct/06/2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Status: Offline Points: 1405 |
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Al, As I understand it, your UCA's are $600 a pair and are not adjustable. With a relocated ball joint, they do improve caster a bit over the stock pieces and are certainly stronger than the stock pieces. For a little improvement in caster, I'll probably just keep my stock pieces and reinforce them. Not knocking your products, but it's just not what I'm looking for. Still waiting on a price for custom pieces; not sure these will be affordable or not. Thanks Scott
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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The existing upper control arm on the 1970+ AMC front suspension is not a problem. At least a problem that needs a solution. It has no adjustment because all adjustment is done with the lower control arm. Which frankly is a weak point.
It is built into the car with anti-nose dive brake geometry and it is basically rugged in it's present form. And it's function while simple is all that is needed to get the job done If anything a lower control arm is needed. One that no longer depends on a strut rod for part of it's movement thus eliminating the monkey motion it goes through while performing is job. One that has better control at the the single pivot point where it attaches to the front cross member and one that does not depend on warping the lower bushing or the end of the control arm to adjust caster. The pivot point depends on a single interference fit for the lower control arm bushing and the flex of the bushing AND the flex of the control arm to actually function. It does not take too many disassembling of AMC front ends to notice all of the tore up lower control arms to make the comment that it is a real weak point in the front suspension. It is the same piece that gets major re-design work on the Mustang II suspension which works the same way except the strut rod goes forward towards the front bumper rather that to the rear of the car. The basic difference which makes the MustangII front suspension so popular is that when you re-design the lower control arm so it has a triangulated mounting system eliminating the strut rod that it becomes both versatile and rugged and adaptable for multiple installations in part because Caster adjustment is done with the upper control arm on the Mustang II suspension. But for AMC to benefit from it both the upper AND the lower need a redesign, or just redesign the lower to get rid of the strut rod. And call it good to go. |
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bulletpruf
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Oct/06/2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Status: Offline Points: 1405 |
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Makes sense to me, but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew here. Would like to start on UCAs since I already have some LCAs that are done (stockers that have been boxed) and I plan to stay with the strut rod for now. Next step would be improved LCAs that would still work with the strut rod. Not trying to design the perfect front suspension just yet; just improve on the factory bits and hopefully end up with a product that others can use, too. I suppose step 3 would be UCAs, LCAs, coil over package w/no strut rod, set up for a different spindle to really open up the options on brakes. Scott
Edited by bulletpruf - Jul/11/2014 at 7:51pm |
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bulletpruf
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Oct/06/2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Status: Offline Points: 1405 |
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From the guy who is interested in building these (different than the original guy in N. California; this guy is near Chattanooga) - What would you do to alter - improve front end geometry? Increase caster and turn in camber gain?" Price sounds pretty darn good to me. Thoughts on geometry? Want to be able to get to at least 2.5 degrees of negative camber and 5 degrees of caster, right? Scott
Edited by bulletpruf - Jul/11/2014 at 8:00pm |
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