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PCV experiment with low vacuum

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Buzzman72 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buzzman72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2018 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by PHAT69AMX PHAT69AMX wrote:

Just talking here, not saying I know, but a Lower Vacuum would REDUCE PCV air flow volume would it not?  Thought the PCV was a "weighted, restricted flow valve"?  Meaning there is a Restrictor built into the valve to determine the Air Flow Volume at a given vacuum drop AND a "Poppet Weight" that delays the onset of air flow until a given minimum vacuum level is reached?  Which also closes and stops PCV Air Flow before manifold vacuum drops too low...  So wouldn't than result in LESS PCV air flow with a larger camshaft and lower Manifold Vacuum Levels both at Idle and Cruising engine speeds?  Not saying I "know", just asking.


Sounds logical to me. More vacuum = more suction, less vacuum = less suction...and less oil sucked into the intake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2018 at 7:18pm
Buzzman, see above. We crossed in the ether it seems! Basically a PCV valve has a range of operation, with zero flow at one end and a small metered flow at the other. The middle is full flow.

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2018 at 8:51pm
Ah, "I see says the blind man"... I get it, PCV flow volume is DECREASED at higher Vacuum Levels by the "Poppet" (fail to remember correct name you used I just read, lol) kinda closing off the Outlet Side, ok, understand, max flow volume happens at midrange poppet travel.  Thanks!  Any day something is learned is a good day!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMXFSTBK390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2018 at 9:24pm
Have you considered installing an oil catch can on the pcv hose to see if the pcv system is sucking to much oil?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2018 at 11:42pm
Good idea on the catch can. If I don't see results I will possibly try that out.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2018 at 2:41am
There is a PCV valve listed for some of the 1970s six cylinder engines that has a steady flow rate of 1.8 CFM regardless of vacuum. It looks visually identical to the machined black steel valve used on V8s and most sixes, but this low flow valve is a silvery blue anodized color. I have one and tried running it on my 232. The result was......not good. 1.8 CFM is enough to keep ahead of blow-by at low load and RPM, not at high load and RPM. Blow-by in excess of the valve flow capability will vent out the oil fill cap, or into your air cleaner if your cap is connected to your air cleaner.  

Basically the valve functions as a fixed orifice except it functions as a check valve in the event of an intake backfire. A regular fixed orifice would be a bad idea since an intake backfire could ignite the blow-by in the crankcase. Bang. 


Might be the sort of thing you need. Or just use a road draft tube. Draft tubes work nicely when located and shaped properly. 


Edited by FSJunkie - Apr/22/2018 at 2:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2018 at 12:52pm
The same PCV valve was used in 1970 for the 232 and it is included in the same flow chart. I considered it, but figured if I can make it work with the full range of adjustability, I would try that first. I think you are that at WOT it likely does not flow enough.

Thanks!

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2018 at 5:30pm
Update! It looks like we may be on the right track. I just pulled a plug to see if there was any difference after 20-30 miles. It has gone from being a dark brownish black colour to a nice light tan-grey. Before the change they looked like a brown colour with a light coating of black over them.

I have not so much as touched a mixture or idle screw, so I can only attribute it to the PCV change. Let me see what happens to the oil consumption next.

Thanks!

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buzzman72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2018 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by ccowx ccowx wrote:

Buzzman, see above. We crossed in the ether it seems! Basically a PCV valve has a range of operation, with zero flow at one end and a small metered flow at the other. The middle is full flow.

Chris


Apparently I was typing as you were typing. Now I get it. Thanks!

And I try to stay away from the ether; too much washes away cylinder lubrication [LOL!!!]

Edited by Buzzman72 - Apr/22/2018 at 6:15pm
Buzzman72...void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, and alcohol may intensify any side effects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/23/2018 at 4:53pm
The "poppet" in the center of the valve has angled sides, basically it's a cone. The cone goes further into an opening on the end with high vacuum, so flow is decreased the further it goes into that opening, but it will only go so far. I was thinking it would be more at high vacuum, but once you look at a cross section of the valve the idea that it will flow less than expected at high vacuum (and more flow in the middle of the vacuum range) makes sense. Of course at very low/no vacuum the spring keeps the poppet seated (closed off) on the other end, and a backfire through the PCV tube would force it closed.

Speaking of a PCV tube/orifice instead of a PCV valve... Most modern cars, including the 4.0L AMc/Jeep engine, use just an orifice tube. There is a baffle inside the 4.0L valve cover. I suppose it's made in such a way as to prevent a backfire from entering the valve cover, but it's been a long time since I had one apart. I do remember taking mine apart and cleaning when I changed to a newer head, but that was 6-7 years ago. I don't remember any kind of valve or flapper, but it may be there...
Frank Swygert
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