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Paint Job/body work update 6-17-2012
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hassyfoto View Drop Down
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Points: 1723 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hassyfoto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2012 at 5:45pm
I would not change it. Although there is one side missing, you could add the missing side rather easily. Unless you want a points concours show car, I would consider adding the missing side rahter than replace the entire gusset unit.. The reason I state this, the missing side of the trough/gusset was part of the strength for the design of the uni-body car. As an alternative, you could leave the missing side alone & add a tubular bar ( square or round stock) as a replacement option.
The gusset is in good shape, therfpre added on side (wall) to the exist gusset would be a much easilier repair than a full panel replacement. You could add the side wall with a off-set flange with an over-lap weld on the bottom section & upon completion, if completed for concours, the seam would never be noticed upon completion.
Murphy's Law:

Any given mechanical job you decide to solve alone will imminently require a third hand, at its most critical moment
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Points: 2855 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 348AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2012 at 6:17pm
^^^^Sounds like a plan hassyfoto. I was thinking along the same lines...just add another side to whats there.   Funny you mentioned welding in a metal tube, I was thinking why more people don't reinforce these with a piece of rollbar right down the middle of the sides, it would be MUCH stronger, and no one would know once the fender is on. In an accident it would probably save the car from more severe damage to have a welded roll bar in that area, from what I read that is basically the purpose of the gusset anyway.


I am definately not going to restore to a concourse level; I am leaving all the factory undercoat as well, except for any areas that need a welded patch where it might have to be removed. Just going to address ares that need strenghtening and rust removal and then get a quality frost white paint job, black go pack stripes and probably repro trendsetters(but only if I can have the head pipes mated to the headers), so if anyone has done trendsetters with full lenght headers I'd be interested to know how hard it was.

Edited by 348AMX - Jun/17/2012 at 10:10pm
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When you add a side to that make sure to put some drain hole in the bottom 
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What was the original gauge of the metal for the troughs from the factory? I have been looking at pics in internet searches of competely rusted out/disintegrated...as in NOT THERE anymore troughs? Was the metal as thick as the shock towers/inner fenders? Seems like it was a lot thinner gauge than the surrounding body.
Also decided against welding in a tube to reinforce that area, seems like it could become dangerous to the driver and front passenger in a head on collision.

Edited by 348AMX - May/29/2012 at 1:31am
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Here is what I did to my 65 Ambassador



My mistake is that I put the tube up above the pinch weld which left the top of the tube higher then the area the fender bolts through. That explains the hollow and the drain holes.

With your existing repair I would consider just running a tube along the lower edge of the repair.
Then add a tower brace like this.



I angled my tube on purpose figuring that an accident would kick that bar out instead of driving it straight back towards a passenger.

This is also a repair that can be reversed back to original should one suddenly find good parts.
I used 16 gauge metal for the flats. I would be happy to have what you have in place to start with!


Edited by Wrambler - May/29/2012 at 3:03pm
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^^^^Yup I would say that is stronger than a factory trough! Was the factory trough 16g??? I just want to make sure I weld in the right gauge for the section I am adding, and I dont know what gauge is in there now for the fabricated trough done when the car was repainted.
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I worked for AMC at the proving grounds and one thing that we always studied was what happened to the front stucture in a frontal crash. We added what we called darts so that the metal would intensionally bend at a certain location to absorb the energy. The gussets were added to make the front sructure bend up insead of in thus protecting the passengers. Make it strong but do not so strong that someone could get seriously hurt. Just a word of caution.
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Originally posted by AMCCARS AMCCARS wrote:



I worked for AMC at the proving grounds and one thing that we always studied was what happened to the front stucture in a frontal crash. We added what we called darts so that the metal would intensionally bend at a certain location to absorb the energy. The gussets were added to make the front sructure bend up insead of in thus protecting the passengers. Make it strong but do not so strong that someone could get seriously hurt. Just a word of caution.


Wow that is good info! Thank you for sharing. So the gussets/troughs basically direct the firewall and fenders to bend upward in a front end collision? I assume the "darts" you refere to are the square shaped concave stampings inline with the spring towers?

Seems like my original troughs were replaced with a thinner gauge than the surrounding inner fender and cowl. Just wondering if that's adequate or if the gussets were the same or thicker gauge than the surrounding body? Again I am assuming they were thinner gauge just based off pictures I have seen of cars where they are completely rusted out to the point of basically not even being there anymore.
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Originally posted by 348AMX 348AMX wrote:

[QUOTE=AMCCARS]
Seems like my original troughs were replaced with a thinner gauge than the surrounding inner fender and cowl. Just wondering if that's adequate or if the gussets were the same or thicker gauge than the surrounding body? Again I am assuming they were thinner gauge just based off pictures I have seen of cars where they are completely rusted out to the point of basically not even being there anymore.
That's strictly academic. The thickness of the metal is not as important as the metal content( Make-up) of different types of metal. Cars of yesteryear had a different thickness based upon the composition make-up of the metal, which had more iron in it, but was a softer metal. Today's cars have a thickness in metal that is thinner, but made of different types of metal elements which makes the metal harder. ( OK, I am trying to use laymen's terms here).
Soooooooo, depending on the metal & it's composition/properties of make-up, a thinner metal can perform the same function as the thicker metals on the car when it was built.
Murphy's Law:

Any given mechanical job you decide to solve alone will imminently require a third hand, at its most critical moment
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Points: 1723 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hassyfoto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2012 at 7:55am
Originally posted by AMCCARS AMCCARS wrote:

I worked for AMC at the proving grounds and one thing that we always studied was what happened to the front stucture in a frontal crash. We added what we called darts so that the metal would intensionally bend at a certain location to absorb the energy. The gussets were added to make the front sructure bend up insead of in thus protecting the passengers. Make it strong but do not so strong that someone could get seriously hurt. Just a word of caution.
Absolutely!
That's why cars have crush zones ( holes, convolutions, reinforcements, etc..) All of the designs in today's cars are there to control the collision energy management of a crash. AMCCARS is very correct in that you want to design the replacement metal ( metal or bar) with at least one of two minor areas of crush zones. A crush zone can be as simple as drilling out a hole(s) to slightly weaken that part of the panel, thus making it, the new crush zone.
Murphy's Law:

Any given mechanical job you decide to solve alone will imminently require a third hand, at its most critical moment
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