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Pacer Spindles for Racers?

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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/07/2019 at 5:59am
Another note about how far to move a rack rearward...

Though the easiest way to determine how fare back can be done at full turn lock. The tie rods should be parallel to the lower ball joints axis. But never exceed beyond the axis line by over rotation.

Though many street cars have forward racks, and work out fairly well considering. What really helps is a custom steering arm or spindle to allow Ackerman to work.

Here are a couple of diagrams that I based my rack install upon.

There is a distance shown of 1.25", between arm end hole centerline and ball joint centerline. Setting too far back will put too much angle into the rack pivot points. Thus the need to verify by checking parallelism locked at full turn.





Edited by 304-dude - Nov/07/2019 at 6:15am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/07/2019 at 6:38am
I suspect the Argo Pacer arms were made slightly different from the factory Pacer arms to make them work better in a dirt track chassis. My guess is they use the Pacer (or rather AMC) steering knuckle and spindle only, mainly because they are two piece and can be adjusted with spacers, and the slightly different arm fixes the steering in the dirt track chassis being used.

As you can see, moving the rack back doesn't make a lot of difference. In actual driving you wouldn't notice the difference shown.

Lucas, what makes the tires turn at different angles is the position of the outer tie-rod end. Both the angle from the ball joint and the length. Again, the easiest way to find the position is to make a temporary arm with moveable ends.

I wonder what it would cost to just send you one of the arms I made (and not suing any more)? The other option is to get standard Pacer arms since they work "good enough" on the 63-66 big car (and Javelins).  You should be able to find someone in the US to send you some.

Other than that, position and width of the rack is critical. The tie-rods can be at a slight angle and not have enough of an effect to be noticeable. The inner pivot points MUST be very near the pivots points of the lower arms though. I think you can be as much as 1/4" in or out (on both sides) and have it work fine. The illustrations 304-dude posted indicate you can be offset a bit without a lot of change, but the inner tie-rod pivots STILL need to be the width of the distance between the lower arms pivot points. Ford racks are front steer and come in three different widths -- Mustang II/Pinto is the narrowest, Ford Contour (and I think later Mustangs) the middle, and the 80s-90s T-bird the widest. Come to think of it, the racks might be close to the same width, the tie-rods ends are short to long like that. It's so popular that you can get extensions that screw between the tie-rod end and rack to make it wider. Can be used on both or one side. Use on one side to offset the rack and still have the pivots in the right places.

It looks like the GM rack might be a bit too wide from the photos in your rack install thread. The outer tie-rod pivot points look to be further out than the lower control arm pivots. That will cause some bump steer issues once the geometry is corrected, but if only a little longer it may not cause enough to be noticeable. Could just be the angle of the photos though.


Edited by farna - Nov/07/2019 at 6:45am
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucas660 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/07/2019 at 5:12pm
Thanks for all the advice here. The Australian Fords are all rear steer, and all the Holdens as well except for this later model, the model after is also front steer but electric power steer.
Since this is a right hand drive application I do not have a huge variety of racks to choose from.
Thanks for the offer to send a arm, but it is no drama for me to make something if required.
I think with all of the information offered here I have come up with a solution and will most likely finish my build thread in the lounge area of the forum.


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Brad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/08/2019 at 3:17pm
Here is some pictures of all 3 steering arms bolted together  for comparison . 71-74 Javelin, ARGO and stock Pacer. The ARGO arm is in the middle, its the same as the Pacer except there is no left/right as the tie-rod boss is straight and has a 5/8" holes as previously mentioned. And the top boss is thicker, same as the Javelin boss. Hope this helps someone out down the road! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/08/2019 at 3:36pm
Just a thought.... with the insane prices for 71-74 Javelin rotors it might be a plan to use the Argo spindles as they use a pinto pin and that opens up lots of options for cheaper and more available rotors going forward.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/09/2019 at 8:27am
You can fit a later model AMC rotor or hub on the 71-74 spindle. All AMCs EXCEPT the 75-78 models use the SAME spindle length and bearings, even drum brakes models, from at least 1952-1983. The 75-78 models (regardless of car size/model) use a bigger bearing Bendix spindle. Don't know why they went that route, may have just been price from the supplier (Bendix). The rotors for those are a bit pricey, so I'm pretty sure they don't cross reference to any other makes.

You can use a hat type rotor with a drum brake hub, just remove the drum. That's what Scarebird does in their kits -- or you can cut the worn rotor off a hub/rotor and use that as the hub (turned off on a lathe or brake lathe). You just have to get the right depth hat rotor, or shim the caliper bracket. You may be able to find a Wilwood or other aftermarket hat rotor with the correct offset to replace a K-H rotor.
Frank Swygert
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