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Pacer Carb Issues

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javelinman74 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote javelinman74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pacer Carb Issues
    Posted: Oct/18/2016 at 6:58pm
Got the carb rebuilt for my 76 and the 77 Pacers.  Installed one on the 76, and still not starting (learned another ignition module went bad!?!)  when started it rund fine for about 30-45 seconds, then begins sputtering and loading up.  Put another used carb that was a reman and complete.  DId the same thing, blowing gas all over the place.  So then I took my other one and bam!  Same thing!?!  Any thoughts?
Richard

wondering if something could happen to increase fuel pressure?  Never seen this on 3 carbs...
Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2016 at 8:01pm
Do you have clean fuel with a fuel filter between the pump and the carb?  Is there a fuel return line on the fuel filter (don't honestly know but I suspect there should be)?   Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote javelinman74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2016 at 8:03pm
Yes I do, and another single line filter before the fuel pump.
thanks!
Richard
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mixed up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2016 at 11:26pm
have you tyed setting the float level a little on the low side Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote javelinman74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/15/2016 at 7:29am
Did the float levels and still to much pressure and pumping gas out of the carb.  I'm going to try another fuel pump and see what that can do.  Pressure regulator, had it's own issues.  Everything the same and still can't step the flow down.
Richard
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/15/2016 at 11:26am
As time marches on and these cars get older, the basic rules of mechanics' 101 seem to get lost in time 'specially when there is an assumption that a lot of repairs are done by DIY people as the corner service station has disappeared along with the mechanics that were familiar with the vague rarities of what used to be the way things were done.
There is an assumption that basic shade tree mechanic skills are available and also some test equipment and the knowledge to use them.
I have a 1974 TSM which is handy to have as it provides instructions a DIY person can use.
The Term "Blowing gas all over the place" seems to imply that the float chamber needle valve is not sealing off the incoming fuel as it should allowing the carburetor to "Flood" which means fill the float chamber with more fuel than it can hold.
There are a couple of reasons for this. One is an improper setting of the float level leaving the float unable to shut off the fuel flow. Thi is usually checked by partial disassembly of the carburetor and checking the adjustment.
I have also seen this caused by a damaged float chamber needle valve.
Another reason could be that there is too much fuel pressure at the input to the carburetor.
It is usually measured at something in the order of 4 to 5 lbs. Requiring a fuel pressure gauge to make this measurement. The instructions are in the TSM.
A cause for this can be the wrong fuel pump. The 1974 TSM seems to indicate the fuel filter has only 2 tits, and input and an output tit.
Some where around 1975 or so a change was made to help control "Vapor Lock" by increasing the volume of the fuel pump so that it pumped more gas than what was needed. When the float was full the gas was continued to be pumped around the carburetor and back to the gas tank. This was done by using a fuel filter with three tits, one input, two outputs. The second output was pumped back to the tank trough a restricted line keeping fuel flowing so a vapor lock could not take place.
Thus if the fuel pump has been changed to a later higher volume pump and you are not using a 3 tit fuel filter than the pressure would be too high at the carburetor causing flooding or "blowing gas all over the place" This can be diagnosed by using fuel pressure gauge or knowing the pump has been changed with the wrong pump or needing a 3 tit filter and not using one.
Hope this helps.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CR CRUISER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/15/2016 at 2:19pm
Foam or brass floats? I've seen lots of the foam floats that have absorbed gas and don't float anymore. Also a few of the brass floats that have corroded and fill with gas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote javelinman74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/15/2016 at 6:27pm
Thanks!
I do have brass floats and all solid and shiny.  I do have TSM's for all my cars.  As for the normal thoughts of the float measurement and needle valves and such.  When first went down I rebuilt both Carter carbs (Have another pacer to get started)  So when I put the 1st one on, it flooded out.  So I put the other one on same thing, then to take my factor out of the troubleshooting, I put another reman (it  had the tag on it) carb that was on the shelf and clean.  Then the same issue.  Went to a regulator which did not give me multiple pressure readings adjusting it in or out.  Also when I got the car, I put a new fuel pump on it then and it started and ran fine.  So doing this I also put another fuel pump on and no different.  Blew air through the lines, return and all, everything clear.

So that's to the point I'm at is to get another pump and see where that goes.  It's strange after running perfect, no issues at all for 6 weeks, before in wouldn't start up, which turned out to be the ignition module (also the 2nd since starting it up. 

I do have a solid well running motor, when it runs for 10 seconds perfect.  Thanks for the info and I'll keep us posted.  I just miss making people happy by laughing at my car...

Appreciate it
Richard
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote javelinman74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/30/2016 at 10:39am
Update... Trouble shooting back to square 1.  Car ran fine, car stopped, module replaced car ran.  Thinking that it ran before and after the restart, it was then that it flooded.  Thinking, since everything else worked out, that there MAY be something in the gas line or tank doing the duty.  So after I get Pacer2 running, Pacer1 goes in for a tank drop.

THEN... Pacer2 is together gassed and ready to go.  It turned over a couple times then nothing.  I swapped out the module (this was a new one) nothing.  Then the one out of Pacer1 that I know works, nothing.  Checked/cleaned ALL connections.  Have power on both sides of the regulator, starter is new (never spun till now)  Still nothing Lights and all accessories work (fan that is as this car has 4 fill plates on the dash, no radio clock and whatever is below the fan controls)

Next step is taking off the new starter and see if it spins on the bench?  Any thoughts (besides how lucky I am, I certainly know it, and I'm good with it, can't do anything about that, but I'm good!  Of course appreciate the forum and all of you with the help!
Blessings
Richard
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/30/2016 at 12:25pm
Richard, make it easy on yourself. Get a multimeter and learn how to use it. No need to remove the starter before making sure it is getting starting voltage. Did the battery die or suddenly get a bad cell? It happens. Measure the voltage. When you say no start and change the module, have you actually confirmed that the spark plugs aren't firing? Once a component gets a bad reputation (like the Pretolite ignition) I know it is tempting to blame it for everything. Any you are often correct, but there are simple ways to test the performance and trace the problem. If I can get on my soap box for just a minute, I have noticed a lot of this "change the part" attitude without actually doing anything to diagnose the problem. Whatever you do you need to diagnose the problem systematically. I'm stepping off my soap box. Joe
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