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Neutral balancing

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Poll Question: Neutral balancing the crank
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DaemonForce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaemonForce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Neutral balancing
    Posted: Jun/25/2017 at 5:53pm
Just a quick poll since I want to see what you guys think. Personally I've been looking into ways to extend the life of this old V8 and it seems like neutral balancing the crank in the same fashion as the AMC 6 is the way to go for expanding flexplate/flywheel->transmission options and extending the overall life and purpose of the engine. There's always a good chance I'm wrong about this since these engines are so unusual but I figure any highly desired transmission fitted to a TJ or XJ should be able to make its rounds all the way back to the AMC V8, even if some modification is needed to keep things under control.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcfool1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2017 at 8:14pm
hi, if you have the original flexplate, and balancer, you are good to go. Why bother with neutral balancing?
Now you will have to source neutral balancers/flexplates, which do not exist for AMC V8s, (afaik) . If you ever get to the point of having this engine professionally rebuilt, the shop should balance it as a matter of course. It's not rocket science, just AMC specific engine building. good luck, gz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tufcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2017 at 9:46pm
Why? Factory external balance engines ran 100K. Having a good machine shop balance it the same way is better than factory. My shop balances to 1/4 gram. Factory stuff is usually within 3 to 4 grams.

XJ and TJ were all I-6 engines, the transmissions were only built for that HP/torque, they wouldn't live long behind a healthy V-8.

Short Jeep bellhousings will mate up to most Ford trans patterns, and QuickTime has a bellhousing to mate to GM patterns. That gives you a pretty wide selection. I'm currently putting a Legend SS700 in my Rambler.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/26/2017 at 5:34am
IIRC the late six flywheel will bolt to the V-8, and is the same diameter, so a neutral flywheel shouldn't be a problem... unless I'm wrong. Still, a good balance job will increase longevity if that's what you're after, doesn't matter if it's internal or external balance. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/26/2017 at 7:20am
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

IIRC the late six flywheel will bolt to the V-8, and is the same diameter, so a neutral flywheel shouldn't be a problem... unless I'm wrong. Still, a good balance job will increase longevity if that's what you're after, doesn't matter if it's internal or external balance. 


What would qualify as a "late" six?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcisworthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/26/2017 at 7:29am
Internal balance gets rid of the weight on perimeter the externals, the damper, flexplate, flywheel. 

Without the weight they will spin true and the counter balance is  moved closer to the center of the crank. 

It is easier on the main bearings and helps to get rid of crank rocking 

In my opinion it is better for any engine but the cost to balance is typically double or more. 

Anytime you have weigh on the perimeter of a spinning circle it is not good, surely not as good as it could be without it but it works every day in a lot of applications. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpnjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/26/2017 at 7:45am
You can internally balance an externally balanced engine,
but I doubt you'll see enough of a longevity benefit to warrant the cost,
 unless you're at the point where RPM, horsepower or torque are starting to distort the crank or a weak block is starting to move around.

There's other reasons to do it,
but if the block and crank are good for your power levels,
I don't think you'll see an internally balanced engine outlast an externally balanced one just based on that.

Edit 
^John explains it better above Smile





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amc67rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/26/2017 at 8:21am
Originally posted by 6PakBee 6PakBee wrote:


Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

IIRC the late six flywheel will bolt to the V-8, and is the same diameter, so a neutral flywheel shouldn't be a problem... unless I'm wrong. Still, a good balance job will increase longevity if that's what you're after, doesn't matter if it's internal or external balance. 



What would qualify as a "late" six?
72 and up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/27/2017 at 6:00am
Yep, 72 and later is the "late" six. 72-80 uses a heavier crank and flywheel than 81 and later (including the 4.0L). The actual change for the light weight 1980+ six is January 1980, so early 80 models have the heavy crank, late 80 models the light (entire engine, not just crank... plastic valve cover and aluminum intake also).
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