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Need help with an engine problem |
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Xplorer
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/07/2013 Location: Sellersville PA Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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I fail at posting. Had a long responce typed, but it seems to have disappeared. Basic jist was that I just wanted it to run. Was hopeful that I could wetsand of hone it and get it to work even if that cylinder is down 5-10 psi.
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Xplorer
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/07/2013 Location: Sellersville PA Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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BTW, the cam lobes and lifters look ok from what I can see. Seems like all the damage is in that 1 cylinder which was at the bottom of it's stroke. Since they had made a nest in that cylinder also, the rust seems to be above the crown of the piston.
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M+M
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/27/2012 Location: Guyton, GA Status: Offline Points: 228 |
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No no no..... tear it down, go through it properly replace parts as necessary, clean and clean again.... no reason to be just simply Lazy here. Put some prep and etch on a rag and treat rust area upon tear down. Its cheap and easily found at home depot. (Phosphoric Acid)... when your done you will have a fresh short block with peace of mind, no crosshatch plateau material and "honing run" cycling through your oil along with rat turds and rust scale which is certainly hiding where you cant see ,this is a no brainer, all else is sorry, but just Lazy....
Edited by M+M - Apr/17/2014 at 5:32pm |
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M+M Performance Heads & Machine
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Performance-Heads-and-Machine/209556499235670?ref=hl |
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Xplorer
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/07/2013 Location: Sellersville PA Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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If that's the only way, then it's just gonna sit due to no money. I was laid off 3 yrs ago and am under employed. Took all I had to get the gaskets and other items together to get it to the point of reassembly.
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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Despite dire words to the contrary, what you want to do has been done before. It is your engine and you are looking at it. It is either a couple of hundred dollars worth of cast iron or something that runs and if you see it that way? Do it. The worst thing that can happen it you fail, the other option is that it runs. If either works for you. Go for it. |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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6PakBee
Supporter of TheAMCForum Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 5454 |
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Okay, we have no bucks. So we'll do the best we can.
1) It'll have to be disassembled. Try not to break anything like piston rings and keep everything together. Don't get parts like the bearings and rings and lifters mixed and matched. 2) Clean everything. You have to be sure there is no mouse nest crap anywhere that could plug an oil passage. I used Dawn dish soap and hot water with a brush for years to clean parts. 3) On the one bore, scotchbrite won't cut it. Best IMHO is to use a stone hone, not a ball hone, to knock down the high points of the corrosion area. You'll have to live with the pits. Without photos I don't know how bad it is. I do know that years ago I rebuilt a really rusty Mopar 2.2 that at 0.030 over still had pits in the bores. Put it together and 11 years and over 100,000 miles later it's still running. 4) If you can afford a new ring set I'd do it. If not, at least kiss the ring surface with some 400 wetordry. Don't get carried away. 5) If you were able to get an overhaul gasket set, this would be a good time to replace the valve stem seals. Also when you have the valving disassembled, a little grinding compound on the valves to just get a contact ring wouldn't be a bad move. Yeah, I know it's inferior to valve resurfacing but this is low buck. Good luck. I've been where you are and it's no fun. |
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Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler 1970 RWB 4-spd Machine 1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX All project cars. Forum Cockroach |
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401MATCOUPE
AMC Addicted Joined: May/20/2010 Location: Salisbury, MD Status: Offline Points: 5368 |
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I can agree with 6PakBee on keep track and re-use everythign you can to get back in one piece. Getting the block clean is most important. During routine maintenance on Small Piston Aircraft, if you find a "leaking" valve on one cylinder, it is common to "stake" the valve...aka, hit the end of the valve with the rocker arm removed to fully seat it, knock any carbon off that may have accumulated. If that is not successful, we pull a single cylinder, very carefully, remove the valve from the "jug" and inspect it, if possible, just re-lap it in and clean everything and re-use everything, do not touch the rings unless something is wrong after inspection. We don't even touch the cylinder wall surfaces, just reassemble with lots of engine and oil and new gaskets/o-rings. I college I nursed a 343 4V for a year with now valve stem seals, low compression and a broken off dipstick tube.......when I got money in order I still did just what I had to to get it "reliable" (fix distick tube, valve stem seals and $50.00 set of Hastings Cast Iron rings....never touched crank) and the next year I drove 800 miles a weeks back and forth to from Maryland to Pennsylvania and not one issue....even still points!!! Sounds like honestly you have little to loose and just so you know the weaknesses of what you are doing I'll bet for under $200 it will go again. Send me a PM and maybe I can help you....I have tons of great used stuff that is not good for restoration, but you are just trying to get it moving. If this thing is Standard Bore I may even have a broken set of STD Bore ring for a Pepsi!! I am in Ireland right now for a large aircraft project, but will be back around 2nd week in May, sounds like you are not in giant hurry......Sellersville, PA is a few hours north of my shop.
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Ross K. Peterson
68X,GoPac,343,AT,52A(1stCar) 68X,GoPac,390,4sp,52A 69X,GoPac,390,4sp,64A 70X,GoPac,390,4sp,87A,8 70X,GoPac,390,4sp,BBO,8 70 Jav SST,390,AT,BSO 74MatX,401,AT,Prototype 74MatX,401,AT |
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FuzzFace2
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2007 Location: Angier, N.C. Status: Offline Points: 10343 |
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I x3 what 6pakbee said. A rebuild gasket set to tear down the motor for a good washing is the way to go. Then a stone honing, can hit all holes just to make sure they are good then wash the block again before putting it back together.
Kind of what I did on my 360 drag motor because I did not have money or the time to have new parts (pistons) and machine work done. I pulled the motor years (10?) before and put in a cornner. I did replace the rod, main bearings and rings. The rod/main bearing showed copper but crank was good, rings were stuck to the pistons. The cam bearings were left, the money/time thing.
When I put this motor back together I measured everything just like you do with a rebuild. Other than end play, way too much, everything else was spot on.
Motor turned out good, no smoking and good oil PSI. I would install a smaller cam and drop it in a street car and drive it all over I trust it that much.
For you some more gaskets and time pulling it apart, washing and putting back together is all you need.
Dave ---- |
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TSM = Technical Service Manual
75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
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Boris Badanov
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/14/2013 Location: NH USA Status: Offline Points: 4209 |
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If the rust is below the rings then a back yard overhaul is not a bad thing.
A quick/light three finger hone and a thorough cleaning should suffice.
I would pull the oil gallery plugs and clean them also.
Before you hone it wire brush out all the rust from those pits.
Best not to use abrasives in the pitted area, wire cleans em up nicely.
A few pits in the skirt area should cause you no grief.
BUT do not attempt to hone the pitted area to clean, juse
use a three fingered hone to get a reasonable finish on the high points
between pits.
I would not use a ball "blueberry" hone.
Boris
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Gremlin Dreams
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Xplorer
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/07/2013 Location: Sellersville PA Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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I think I've done this correctly, if so, here is a picture of the cylinder:
http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a509/69javelin343/DSC00782_zps360915f4.jpg - http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a509/69javelin343/DSC00782_zps360915f4.jpg |
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