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My "new" 72 Javelin SST

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CamJam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/18/2018 at 8:52am
Thanks Buster and David. When I see the amazing "body off" restoration Buster did I'm embarrassed to even have a thread for my little "refresh" job, but I do get a certain satisfaction making the old girl drive like a new car again.

My paint job looks good in the photos, but it's really more of a "10 yarder", lol.
'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JolleyGreenSST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/18/2018 at 11:28am
Originally posted by CamJam CamJam wrote:

Thanks Buster and David. When I see the amazing "body off" restoration Buster did I'm embarrassed to even have a thread for my little "refresh" job, but I do get a certain satisfaction making the old girl drive like a new car again.

My paint job looks good in the photos, but it's really more of a "10 yarder", lol.

A humble man that criticizes his own work, is usually the one who does the best job! one day I hope mine looks good from 10 yards away!
"God is good all the time and all the time God is good!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/18/2018 at 3:48pm

Just keep at it, Dave.  I'm hoping to see the Jolly Green Javelin at the Las Vegas or So Cal AMC shpows one of these days!  I usually show my '69 AMX, but I'm considering driving the Javelin up to Las Vegas in November.

Anyway, back to the AW4 transplant... yesterday was pretty much a wasted day trying to find the right connectors for the transmission cooling lines.  The AW4 uses quick-connect fittings.  They may be easy to connect, but they're a pain in the arse to disconnect.  I bought the little plastic tool they make for the job ($3.99 at O'Reillys) but it didn't do squat, so I ended up taking a propane torch to the fittings to burn out the little plastic clip that holds the lines in place.  O'Reilly's did have the replacement connectors in stock, but they didn't have the lines or any fittings that would mate up to it.  The old lines from the Jeep had been cut at the Pick 'n Pull, so I was pretty much dead in the water.  After all that I ended up forgetting about using the quick-connect fittings and ordered some -AN6 style (14 x 1.5 mm at the transmission) from Amazon.  They won't be here until Monday so I started in on the wiring.

I'm about half way through crimping all the wires together.  There are 15 or so that need to be connected. About half of them go to the TCU, which I am mounting in the glove box, and the rest are grounds or go to the back up lamps, throttle position sensor, brake switch, starter relay etc.





I ran the wires through the firewall where the a/c relay wires pass through, which is conveniently just above the glove box and comes from the factory stopped up with a foam plug.  

The neutral safety switch and starter relay connections look like they'll be easier than what Rick (SC397) had to deal with when he put an AW4 in his '69 (see the sticky).  Starting in '72 AMC began using a relay with ground posts on the back, which I believe will eliminate the need for the reverse logic circuit that Rick detailed in the sticky.  I won't really know for sure until I get to that point.

The throttle position sensor and kick down switch will be a challenge, but so far nothing has been difficult.  It's just a matter of taking it one step at a time.  I'm working with a checklist, which keeps me organized and from feeling overwhelmed with what's left to do.

I mentioned in an earlier post that the indexing of the shift lever is off a little.  The shift "arm" on the transmission (that the linkage attaches to) moves in an arc, and it occurred to me that if I made a longer one it would take more throw to move it and possibly solve the indexing problem.  As it is, it's not a big issue, but it would be a nice spare time project to make it right. 


Edited by CamJam - Aug/18/2018 at 9:02pm
'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JolleyGreenSST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/19/2018 at 11:28pm
Originally posted by CamJam CamJam wrote:


Just keep at it, Dave.  I'm hoping to see the Jolly Green Javelin at the Las Vegas or So Cal AMC shows one of these days!  I usually show my '69 AMX, but I'm considering driving the Javelin up to Las Vegas in November.

Hopefully in the not to distant future Cam, will see how progress goes... Obviously the AMX is a stunner, but your 72 has turned out really nice also, tough decision on that one... maybe go with the 72 since you've taken the 69 before? 
And I''' be keeping an eye on this transmission swap, I think it may be something I would want to do in the future, once you work out the details... Wink
what's the power/torque limits on the AW4?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/25/2018 at 4:54pm


The transmission is up and running, though I still have the throttle position sensor and kick down cable to contend with.  I was going to fabricate a bracket for these, as Rick did in the AW4 sticky, but I found this bracket on Amazon that I think might work.  For $7.50 I decided it was worth a try:


The big problem I've been fighting is an engine vibration.  I'm not sure whether my flex plate was balanced wrong or whether the torque converter is out of balance, but it was horrible to start with.  With the lower access plate off there's room to get to the bottom of the flex plate, so I first turned the torque converter 180 degrees in relation to the flex plate and have been adding and subtracting weights to the flex plate to see where it needs to be. The vibration is minimal now, but I think I can get it a little better.  Once I get it dialed in I'll weld a weight to the flex plate in the proper location. 

The shift linkage, speedometer cable and driveshaft were almost non-issues.  I mentioned earlier that the original Javelin console shift linkage was close, but it turned out I had it backwards, i.e. when I thought I was in Park I was actually in 1st gear.  Turns out all that was required to fix that was to flip the lever on the transmission 180 degrees, which requires nothing more than loosening a nut, and that brought the original shift linkage exactly where it needed to be!  The only problem was that the stud on the Javelin shift linkage was oriented vertically while the AW4 socket was horizontal.  I solved this by clamping the two together with a rope clamp.  It works so well that it could probably stay that way permanently, but I'll properly modify the end on the linkage when I get a chance.

I was able to use the original Javelin driveshaft just by removing the 998 yoke and attaching the AW4 yoke.  Amazingly, the driveshafts are the same length within about 1/4".

Speedometer worked just by using a drive from a pre '91 Cherokee, as mentioned earlier.  It's not reading accurately, so I'll have to change the gear at some point.

The neutral safety switch isn't quite right yet.  Backup lights work, but the switch is not grounding the starter solenoid as it needs to, so I've temporarily grounded it with a test clip until I can sort it out.

Speaking of solenoids, the Jeep starter I'm using has the solenoid attached to the top of the starter, whereas the Javelin's is underhood near the shock tower.  I'm using the Javelin solenoid, which means I had to make a jumper on the Jeep solenoid to bypass it.  Basically, it's just a short length of 12 ga wire between the small solenoid +12V input terminal and the main +12V connection on the starter. When the neutral safety switch is in park it grounds the rear terminal on the Javelin solenoid, causing it to send 12V to the starter.  The Jeep starter needs 12 volts on BOTH terminals to fire, so without this jumper in place the starter won't work. 

My AW4 oil pan had been damaged and patched with JB Weld by a previous owner.  It still leaks at the patch, so I'll be headed back to the Pick 'n Pull to see if I can find a better pan.

Though the shifting will be a bit funky until I get the TPS and kick-down cables operational, I can tell from a few short test drives that the gear ratios are well suited to the Javelin.

Finding the right fittings for the transmission oil cooler lines was the hardest part of the swap.  5/16 flare fittings used in the Torque Flites are not very common, and the adapters to go from 3/8 to 5/16 even less so.  I ended up resorting to using hose barbs to bridge the gap between the original lines and the AW4 fittings.  My original cooling lines are a mess anyway and I'm going to replace them at the first opportunity, but I didn't want to spend money on new lines until I knew the transmission was good.  



Edited by CamJam - Sep/01/2018 at 12:30am
'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/25/2018 at 5:17pm
Not sure if I have my original Hurst Indy Matic shifter diagrams. It's one of them universal fit types, so it should work on most trannys made from the 60s to the early 80s.

If I remember correctly, there is some interesting configurations to work with on transmission lever setups, when when I had originally browsed through it.

One of which is the use of clamps similar to how you setup your shift lever, interesting enough.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/01/2018 at 12:00am
Well this transmission swap has about kicked my butt, but it's all working now.  If you've seen my thread in the V8 engine section you'll know I was fighting vibration problems.  Turned out to be a combination of a poorly balanced flex plate and a loose motor mount.  The transmission shop lowered the crossmember to replace the rear main seal, and neglected to tighten down one of the motor mounts when they were done. 

I'm loving the transmission-- light throttle shift points are a little high yet, which is probably a TPS adjustment--  but otherwise it's working great.  Gear ratios are perfect for the Javelin and shifts are smooth. I don't have a tach in the car, but highway speeds are now like a leisurely cruise rather than what seemed like a high-speed run just to keep up with Kias and Hyundais.  I have a 3.15 rear axle ratio, and it seems about right with the 4th gear ratio of .72.

A few things you should know if you're planning this swap into a 72-74 Javelin:

1.  Pick an AW-4 from a pre-97 Cherokee. They use a standalone TCU.  You can even run the car without the TCU if you want to shift it manually.

2.  Mechanically it bolts right in, using the original console shift linkage (with a minor mod), original driveshaft (with the Jeep front yoke), original starter relay, Original speedometer (needs a pre-91 Jeep mechanical drive which bolts right into the later transmissions), and original transmission crossmember (mounted to different holes in the frame).  I searched and searched for a low profile transmission mount and eventually found that the one I had just removed from my Opel GT (when I installed a T5) was as close as any I could find.

3.  Electrically it takes some time, but is not difficult.  There are about 18 or so wires that need to be spliced to connect the transmission to the TCU. I also needed to buy a 12 VDC to 5 VDC converter to power the throttle position sensor.  $7 on Amazon.com.  Adapting the TPS to the carb was the biggest obstacle (see photos).  I ended up buying a bracket on Amazon that I modified to fit with a cutting wheel, then making a small pulley out of a couple of shock absorber washers for a cable I connected to the existing throttle linkage.  If I had it to do again I would buy a TPS from a pre-1990 Cherokee, as they have a lever already installed instead of having to come up with a way to interface to the TPS the way I did via the pulley.  

4.  What you need from the Jeep:  AW4 transmisson from an 87-96 2WD Cherokee, complete with transmission harnesses, neutral safety switch, flex plate, torque converter, starter and transmission control unit (TCU).  Also grab the connectors from the Jeep main harness for the TCU, TPS, neutral safety switch and solenoid harnesses (black and gray connectors) and TCU connector (green), the kickdown cable and the shift cable.  You'll only use the last inch or so of the shift cable (see photo).  The Jeep Flex plate will have to be match balanced to the original 304 flex plate.  4.0 Jeep flex plates are neutral balanced while AMC 304 flex plates have a counterweight.   

Save this piece from the transmission end of the Jeep's shift cable (I cut it off with a cutting wheel) then all you need to do is weld or clamp it to the existing Javelin shift linkage.



This bracket is available for about $10 on Amazon to mount the TPS.  I cut some pieces off that weren't needed.  Notice the hole on the front of the TPS, which is where the pulley needs to be attached.  I cut some grooves in a bolt to match the tabs inside the hole and epoxied it in place.  Pre 1990 Cherokee TPS have a lever and might be easier to use, but I didn't know this at the time.



I made a small pulley out of some shock absorber washers, and that is what was used to actuate the TPS via a cable, connected to the stock throttle linkage. Notice the groves cut in the bolt to grab the tabs inside the TPS.  The bolt was then epoxied into the TPS, being VERY careful not to get epoxy in the seam between the rotating and stationary parts of the TPS!  After this first photo was taken I changed the nut out for a thinner jam nut, so that the bolt would protrude farther into the TPS. 

  



I don't have a picture yet of the TPS final installation, but so far it seems to be working ok. The cable I'm using is a bit too heavy, so I might try to find some that's thinner and more flexible.


Edited by CamJam - Sep/01/2018 at 12:27am
'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/01/2018 at 4:16am
Looks like you done a fine job with creating a good mechanical actuation setup for your tranny. Your hardware store should have some cable or you can look into the pick not pull for manual control vent cables from trucks, and big body cars, pretty 2000. Seems like a lot of 2000 up cars have electronicly actuated vemts.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/07/2018 at 8:28pm

I've been finishing up details of the transmission swap. My old nemesis-- drive-line vibration-- was back after the swap.  This is in addition to the previous engine imbalance, and it took me the better part of a week to figure it out!  

First off, Rick Jones' sticky on the AW4 swap mentioned removing a small tab from the transmission case.  I found out why, as it interferes with the stock transmission crossmember.  I was getting a mechanical vibration there.  

I also upgraded my transmission mount from the Opel GT mount I was using to something beefier.  Though the Opel mount worked, I was afraid it wasn't up to handling the monster torque of my 304 LOL.  I ended up using an Anchor #2253.  I don't remember what it fits, but Anchor is one of the popular brands carried at many of the chain stores.  This mount has a couple studs that need to be knocked out and replaced with bolts to attach it to the tranny.  A sledgehammer makes quick work of them.  This is a low-profile mount and it seems to work fine.  I only had to drill a couple new holes in the stock crossmember, and I mounted the crossmember to the rear-most holes in the frame rails.  

After all that was done, my vibration was still with me. I thought it was pinion angle, so bought some wedges for the rear diff to point it up 2 degrees.  That didn't work, so I took the driveshaft out and looked at the u-joints. Turns out when I swapped the driveshaft I managed to dislodge one of the needle bearings.  Oh, so THAT'S why I had trouble getting the u-joint to seat in the yoke properly. Sheesh!  Lesson learned.  So I replaced the u-joint, and removed the wedges from the rear diff, and things were a bit better.  Better, but not perfect.

After verifying that u-joints, pinion angles, mechanical vibration etc were not the cause, the only thing left was driveshaft balance.  This was the same driveshaft I had been using previously, so that couldn't be it.... but wait a minute!  The front slip yoke is from the Jeep! I did the old hose clamp on the driveshaft trick at the front of the driveshaft, and by dumb luck picked the right spot on the driveshaft first try. Sure enough, the front yoke was out of balance! I played around with it for awhile, and by adding hose clamps to both the front and rear of the driveshaft, it is FINALLY, nearly perfect!!!

So, with that crap put to bed I changed the transmission fluid and filter, and put on the new Pick n' Pull pan that I'd bought a week ago to replace my patched, leaky one.

I mentioned in a previous post that the transmission was holding first gear a bit too long.  I thought it was a TPS adjustment, but after the filter and fluid change, that problem fixed itself!  Who knows why... but my guess is that perhaps the gaskets on the old filter were hard were not sealing properly.  

Now that everything's is working I'm having a celebratory beer!!

Did I mention that I LOVE cruising in the Javvy at 75 mph!!
 


Edited by CamJam - Sep/07/2018 at 9:29pm
'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/07/2018 at 8:56pm
Sounds like the transmission swap was making up, for the ease of making all of your improvements. Had to give you a kick in the pants, didn't it. Hehehehehe! At least it dint get you to pull your hair out.

When I put a 69 Polara rear with 2.74 gears, I was living large cruising at 70MPH back when 55MPH was a California posted limit on the interstate and highways. At one time 70MPH was standard back in the late 60s to the mid 70s.

Glad it all sorted out... and you couldn't be happier now being as good as it was expected... kinda makes up for the paint being not to your liking, colour wise, and a bit of wear from the years.

At least your summer lasts longer than most, so as the weeks progress, i am sure you will be driving it more often with windows rolled down, enjoying all your efforts while driving.

Edited by 304-dude - Sep/07/2018 at 9:00pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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