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My AW4 swap into a '72 Javelin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/11/2018 at 4:47pm
Cam, what do the yards in your area get for a 2WD AW4 & control box?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/11/2018 at 11:03pm
Originally posted by scott scott wrote:

Cam, what do the yards in your area get for a 2WD AW4 & control box?

Scott, I'd forgotten the exact amounts I paid, but I got the following from their web site:

Transmission and torque converter: $150
Flex plate: $19
Control box: $22

Core charges too.  I seem to recall the grand total being about $230 for everything as I didn't have any cores, but that included $25 for the Jeep's shifter, which I ended up not needing. Figure approximately $200 for everything then.


I made sure that all the kick down/shifter cables and harnesses were attached to the transmission so that they didn't charge me separately for them. 


Edited by CamJam - Dec/11/2018 at 11:29pm
'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2020 at 4:56pm
I've had a couple questions about how I did the throttle position sensor.  Mine went bad and had to be replaced, so while I was fixing it I snapped a couple more photos.

The TPS is a Standard Motor Products #TH143, which is for the same '94 Jeep Cherokee XJ that the transmission came from.  Also fits many other Chrysler products I believe.  As mentioned in the first post of this thread, I came up with a pulley arrangement to connect the TPS to the carburetor's throttle linkage.  I made the pulley from a couple of cupped shock absorber washers bolted together, and then cut a slit on the tip of the bolt with a 4" angle grinder so it would slide over the "tangs" of the TPS.  That provides the mechanical grip to rotate the recessed TPS "wheel".  I then glue the bolt in with epoxy, being very careful not to get epoxy between the rotating parts of the TPS.  Just to be sure, I rotate the pulley quite often as the epoxy is curing just to break the bond in case some got into the gap between the rotating parts of the TPS.



When you're done it should look like this:



Using epoxy to hold the pulley in is not ideal when you need to replace the TPS, but I was able to break the pulley free from my old TPS and reuse it without too much difficulty. 

Note that there is a hole drilled for the cable to pass through on the inside half of the pulley. I am using 1 mm wire cable to go from the pulley to the carburetor throttle linkage.  I found a kit on Amazon for about $8 that included 10m of cable and some lead crimps.  The bracket I'm using (see post one) allows the TPS to slide.  Set the TPS in the middle of the range of travel and then crimp the cable so that the cable has a little slack in it, but not so much that your cable unwinds from the pulley. You can then adjust the cable tension by sliding the TPS back and forth on the bracket. The Autolite 2100 on my car already had a hole in the linkage for the cable to pass through.  If not, you may have to drill one.

If the TPS is not functioning or improperly adjusted, transmission shift points will be off, "kick-down" may not occur and torque converter lock-up may not work properly.  If the TPS cable is too taut the car will hold gear too long before shifting and downshift even with light throttle applications or small hills, so I like to keep a little slack in it.

Also, don't forget to adjust the kick-down cable.  The procedure is exactly the same as for the Jeep XJ, assuming you've used a standard type cable mount like this:  https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7355230?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&gclid=CjwKCAjw0_T4BRBlEiwAwoEiATuSIJybytjAL-4zQBpGPMP9QgZ7eoOpNOwrN6hMQwjqB3Gi2LsxGBoCpnkQAvD_BwE

Here's a tutorial on that adjustment:


There's lots of useful info on the Jeep XJ forums about these transmissions.   Over 3 million XJ's were built and the majority of them had AW4s!  Toyotas and Mitsubishi used a version of the AW4 as well, so parts should be around for a long time to come.



Edited by CamJam - Jul/27/2020 at 7:00pm
'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tufcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2020 at 6:42pm
If you're running a Holley or other variant (Demon, Quick Fuel), there is a TPS retrofit kit available for about $100.

Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/27/2020 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by tufcj tufcj wrote:

If you're running a Holley or other variant (Demon, Quick Fuel), there is a TPS retrofit kit available for about $100.

Bob
tufcj

Good tip, Bob... thanks!

There's one more issue that I needed to address.   As mentioned in the original post, a switch is needed to control the function of the lock-up torque converter.  This disengages the lock-up function whenever the brake pedal is depressed.  If no switch is installed, the lock-up TC is not functional (unless you were to permanently hard wire the circuit... NOT recommended). 

The Javelin's stop light switch can't be used (without a relay) as it's a normally open (NO) switch and the TC lock-up requires a normally closed (NC) switch.  I had been using ATV brake light switches I bought on Amazon, but they're of poor quality.  The first one broke after a year and the second one is getting intermittent now.  Fortunately, I kept the original brake light switch that I took from the Jeep when I got the transmission.  It has more poles than we need here (as I continue to use the Javelin's stoplight switch for the brake lights) and has both NO and NC poles in the same switch. An ohmmeter will tell you which poles to use.

I used a conduit clamp and a hose clamp to attach the Jeep's stoplight switch to the steering column.  I'm sure some of you guys could mill a bracket out of a solid billet of aluminum, but a trip to Home Depot is more in keeping with my capabilities.  LOL  Though a bit crude, it works surprisingly well. I also considered fabricating something using a tachometer bracket, so that's an option if you want something that looks a little more professional.  Since it's under the dash, I wasn't too worried about aesthetics. 



The button presses against the front side of the brake pedal shaft, which means TC lockup is always engaged except when the brake pedal is depressed.  You'll only need two wires, and the rest can be cut off.

Since the button was about an inch away from lining up horizontally with the brake pedal shaft, I also fabricated a little bracket on the brake pedal shaft that the button on the switch rides against.

It all works well and it's easy to test that it's operating properly.  You only need to drive about 45-50 mpg and step lightly on the brake pedal and you should see the revs increase by a few hundred rpm as the lock-up TC disengages. 


Edited by CamJam - Jul/27/2020 at 7:02pm
'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/28/2020 at 6:26am
I'm using the factory stoplight switch on my 63 Classic, but mounted like the factory did on the pedal and brake rod. That's not a bad mount for the switch1 At this point I think I'd just ditch the original switch and use the one though, since it will work with brakes too. I have a manual controller on my AW4 -- having speed control issues (I think the rotor has lost it's magnet, the switch tests good but no speed signal).

I have a manual switch for the lock-up converter. You can just leave it on all the time. The AW4 won't lock the converter in first gear no matter what. The only issue with leaving the converter locked all the time is a hard 2-3 shift. I can turn the lock-up off momentarily or let off the gas when making the 2-3 shift for a smooth shift. If you don't turn the lock-up off or switch to first when coming to a stop, the engine will buck then stall -- just like trying to stop with a manual trans without using the clutch. It does this only at a low speed, and you have plenty time to flip the switch or switch to first with the manual controller. The controller is mounted on the center console and easy and convenient to reach. To use a manual lock-up switch with an auto shift controller you'd have to have the switch in a very convenient place, which isn't easy on most cars, and you'd have to be conscious of it.

When someone else has to drive the car (like for a front end alignment) I just turn the lock-up switch off and tell them not to use it. Doesn't hurt anything no to use the lock-up at all, just costs you 300 or so rpm when cruising. I have taken to leaving the switch off until getting into 3rd gear lately, and switching it off when down-shifting below 3rd. Have considered re-wiring my controller as a five speed -- 1, 2, 3, 3+lock, 4+lock. Not really enough jump with and without lock in 3rd, but it would eliminate thinking on that 2-3 shift (let off gas or turn off converter??). Would still leave the switch in as a bypass, but would no longer be needed. I'm using simple "diode logic" on the shifter -- wouldn't be hard to add the line for the lock-up to the gear positions on the switch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/16/2020 at 11:32am
Hi Cameron,

First thing, thanks for doing this write up.  I'm in OD purgatory right now, trying to decide on the most practical, cost effective and longest lasting conversion I can accomplish.  I see that you posted this in 2018, any update on the conversion or things you might have done differently?  

I'd also be curious how much out of pocket this ran you and how many hours you estimate that you have into this swap overall?

Appreciate any guidance you can offer 

DMack
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/16/2020 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by DMack DMack wrote:

Hi Cameron,

First thing, thanks for doing this write up.  I'm in OD purgatory right now, trying to decide on the most practical, cost effective and longest lasting conversion I can accomplish.  I see that you posted this in 2018, any update on the conversion or things you might have done differently?  

I'd also be curious how much out of pocket this ran you and how many hours you estimate that you have into this swap overall?

Appreciate any guidance you can offer 

DMack

Dave, I don't think there's an easier swap, especially if it's a 72-74 Javelin.  Everything bolts up. The worst part is finding a 2WD XJ Cherokee for the donor transmission and getting the flex plate matched balanced to the old flex plate.  Not too many shops that can do that.

Remember that you need to grab the Jeep starter too.

The wiring to the TCU takes a little time, but it's nothing difficult.  I bought good quality crimps and crimpers and have had minimal problems.  One time the torque converter wasn't locking up, which I traced to a poor ground connection.  Fortunately, even if you did have a wiring issue or your control box dies completely you won't get stranded as you can always shift it manually.

I'm very happy with the results.  The gear ratios seem about perfect for my 304.  I've put about 5k miles on my car since the swap including two trips to Las Vegas and back, about 500 miles round trip each.

The only adjustments that need to be made after installation are the throttle position sensor and the kickdown cable.  Both affect the shift points and it might take a little trial and error to get them adjusted where you want them.  It's pretty intuitive once you get into it.

As for out of pocket... I'm guessing here as it was a couple years ago, but I think the transmission with TCU, Jeep slip yoke and starter was around $250 at the wrecking yard plus $100 to have the flex plate match balanced.  I also paid to rebalance my driveshaft because of replacing the original yoke with the Jeep yoke.  Not sure that is really necessary but it helped tame some vibration in my case. I think that was about $85. Transmission mount was around $10 or less as I recall and I bought a bracket kit for mounting the TPS and kickdown cable... somewhere around $20 for that I think.  Might be some more info earlier in the thread on that.

Hours?  I have no idea.  I paid a transmission shop to actually bolt the transmission in but towed the car home and did all the driveshaft and electrical connections myself.  I initially had some vibration issues due to a poorly balanced flex plate and that took a LOT of hours of troubeshooting that you won't have if your balancing shop knows what they're doing.

Good luck.  Feel free to PM me if you have questions once you get into it.


Edited by CamJam - Oct/16/2020 at 6:06pm
'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/20/2020 at 5:08pm
Cameron,

Thanks so much for the response.  

I'd probably get the trans rebuilt before I put it in my 73'  I'm pretty adept at the "mechanical stuff" it's the electronics that give me pause... first concern is I'm color blind, so I tend to stay way from wiring as much as possible.  It looks like you came up with really solid fixes and brackets for the TPS and kickdown cable issues.  I'm looking at going this route or (robbing a bank) and getting a Gear Vendors unit for my 727.  Cost is the major factor there.  I'll apologize now if I decide to go the AW4 route, because I'll probably have a ton of questions for you...  First things first, I need to see if I can find an acceptable donor vehicle...so 94-01 Cherokee 2WD XJ is the ideal donor?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/22/2020 at 7:26am
Originally posted by DMack DMack wrote:

Cameron,

Thanks so much for the response.  

I'd probably get the trans rebuilt before I put it in my 73'  I'm pretty adept at the "mechanical stuff" it's the electronics that give me pause... first concern is I'm color blind, so I tend to stay way from wiring as much as possible.  It looks like you came up with really solid fixes and brackets for the TPS and kickdown cable issues.  I'm looking at going this route or (robbing a bank) and getting a Gear Vendors unit for my 727.  Cost is the major factor there.  I'll apologize now if I decide to go the AW4 route, because I'll probably have a ton of questions for you...  First things first, I need to see if I can find an acceptable donor vehicle...so 94-01 Cherokee 2WD XJ is the ideal donor?

Ideally 1991-97 (maybe 96-1/2?). Here's a great write up on the differences:


Must be 2WD version. 

From my first post in this thread:

"Using a 97-01 transmission is possible, but requires more work. Starting in mid-96 Jeep switched to OBDII and tied the Transmission Control Unit (TCU) into the the vehicle PCM. Prior to that, the TCU was a standalone unit. In fact, you can even run without a TCU if you don't mind switching gears manually.  It does not matter if your TCU is from a 2WD or 4WD, and I'm told you can use TCU from different years, but to avoid problems I would try to find a TCU that is close to the same year as your transmission. Some wiring and TPS changes were made through the years, though it appears the transmissions themselves went largely unchanged."


Edited by CamJam - Oct/22/2020 at 7:33am
'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD

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