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My '64 Rambler Classic

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rms827 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rms827 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/09/2018 at 11:53pm
He was either NorCal or SoCal chapter, so it's hard to say what the chances of you crossing paths would have been.  Just with this site, some folks seem to get to meets on the other side of the country and some are here only as an internet presence.

In the mean time...  There has been progress.  I managed to straighten things out with the car club owner and have been busy the last two afternoons pulling things out of the engine compartment.

SLOW going with a bad back and neck.  It also doesn't help that there's a ton of mods, so I have to be sure where everything goes.

One interesting surprise:  I thought THIS was a trans cooler.




As it turns out, (now that I have cr... stuff... out of the way and can see where everything is going, it's actually an OIL cooler, and the transmission cooler is part of the radiator as one would expect.

I think half of my "leaks" are actually blow back from the power steering hose leaking at both ends and the oil cooler lines leaking at the filter housing end.  I need to find a better way to route some of this stuff.   The driver's side of the engine compartment above the steering rack was lousy with extra lines from the A/C aftermarket kit, the overflow canister for the radiator, and the oil cooler.  One big know of hoses all waiting to rub weak spots into each other.

ANYWAY...  I have most of the stuff cleared away from the engine now:




I think all that's left is the throttle linkage, the hood, and the engine mounts before I hoist away.  I'm going to pull the front fenders first also.  A) I want them free and clear of accidental dings and scratches.  B) I wanted to verify no rust under the A pillars also.
1964 AMC Rambler Classic 660

"You can think I'm an idiot, just don't talk to me like I'm one." - Batman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/10/2018 at 7:12am
The heater core has two bolts that go through from the factory. They should have square heads on one side (can't remember if under hood or inside), but the fiberglass casing usually breaks up when the bolts are rusted a bit. Yours may have been replaced with regular bolts.

I'd just fiberglass over that little bit of trunk rust after cleaning up, then undercoat real good. Doesn't look bad enough to cut out and worry over, especially since it will be covered by a trunk mat. But that's just me...

As long as the cooling system is good I'd consider ditching that oil cooler. Shouldn't be needed, though it won't hurt.

The torque-tube should have no oil in it. If it does, it's most likely tranny fluid. Of course if you pull it you may as well change the pinion seal as well, it's easy to get to and find.

You will likely find some rust under the front fenders. There is a pinch weld one the outer edges of the floor board about 3-4" in from the sides. As far as I can determine that pinch weld collects mud and dirt and holds moisture in, eventually rusting up along the seam. That and the lip rusting away where the heater draws air through the cowl floor are the main rust areas on the 63-66 big cars.

When rebuilding the front suspension, the strut rod bushings are an issue. No one makes a NEW one piece bushing that fits correctly. The HD Eagle type doesn't. Your strut rods aren't adjustable, which is an issue. I cut mine in half and welded the back half of Concord rods on to make them adjustable so I could use a Concord/Mustang II two piece strut rod. The solution I came up with before that was to get ONE urethane strut rod bushing set (front and back halves are identical) and cut the cone shaped part off, leaving a flat bushing about 1" thick. I used half a Concord/MII RUBBER bushing on the back side. This worked, but the urethane bushing on front does jar the car quite hard if you hit a pot hole or something like that. Why rubber on the back side? Two poly bushings clamp the rod tight, so it doesn't move as freely. With the "half-n-half" poly/rubber arrangement movement is still restricted more than stock, but half as much as poly on both sides. Making the rod adjustable was the best move though. Rubber on both sides rides and handles so much better!! If you cut the rubber bushing down for the front it won't last long -- strut rod pushes through. Tried that first... rubber isn't tough enough for the shape and thickness needed.

The front discs do look to be Scarebird -- unless they are home made. The flat steel brackets and GM calipers give it away. And I agree on documentation! I keep a folder with everything I buy for my highly modified 63 Classic. If I need a part I can go through my receipt/note folder and get what I need easily.

Great progress so far, sounds like you have everything under control!


Edited by farna - May/10/2018 at 7:18am
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rms827 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/10/2018 at 3:37pm
Alot of good info there, thanks Farna.

Somebody had indeed replaced the standard heater core core square heads with regular bolts.  Annoying, but once I had a second pair of hands it was easily dealt with.

Ditching the oil cooler... STRONGLY considering it.  The lines are a leaky mess, and I'm not going to get anywhere near even 300 HP leaving it as close to stock as it is.

Sounds like that pinch weld would be a good area to undercoat the heck out of.  I'm still hopeful on the rust issue though.  As best I can figure from the notes written in the TSM, the car was driven normal the first 10 years of it's life (in Southern California, where a light sprinkle is reported like 100 year flooding), and then garaged or lightly driven after that.  Plan was to pull the fenders today, but my time for the day is running out fast.
1964 AMC Rambler Classic 660

"You can think I'm an idiot, just don't talk to me like I'm one." - Batman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2018 at 8:41am
Maybe you will get lucky on that pinch weld. It's sort of in-line with the tire, on the firewall. Most I've seen are rusted there, but  I'm in SC and most have been from this area, or at least east of the Mississippi river. Looked at a 64 Ambo from up north when I was in Gulfport. Looked goo, until you glanced underneath! One of the brace rods for the rear axle was nearly rusted in two. Too bad, it was a well optioned car, even had rare power windows! Guy wanted too much for it, wasn't happy when I told him it was little more than a parts car. Rockers and front rails were rusted though in places, would have been months of work just to replace the rusted parts... couldn't be patched up. Looked good inside and out though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rms827 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/23/2018 at 6:46am
I was busy with the Rambler for a while, then back problems sidelined me for the last few days.  Have to admit that after being talked down to in balancer thread, I haven't felt like posting anyway.  No rants though.

I've made progress tearing down the car:



Not only that, absolutely zero rust under the cowl:


I'm still trying to get the fenders off.  All the bolts are out per the TSM, but they're both hanging up at the door end.  Feels like there's some hidden self tapping screws or something holding them up.  I won't force them though.  They're in too good a condition otherwise.

As it turned out, the engine had a minor head gasket issue.  The arm on the fuel pump had "milkshake" goo on it, and so did the tops of the valve covers. 



Oddly enough, the rest of the engine looks great:



Long story short, the engine looks good overall, BUT it's still getting a rebuild at this point.  Despite criticism about not planning on the rebuild earlier, I'm not an idiot or cheap, just trying to be as practical as possible with rather limited funds.  With the heads needing to come off and potential milkshake in the bearings, it NEEDS a rebuild to do this right though.

Parts cost and availability is a frustration at this point.  Galvin's is pricey.   RockAuto has some parts at better prices but 2/3 of them are being discontinued.  That doesn't bode well for this power train in the long term.

Anyway...  Timing chain had a little bit of slack in it also.  Not bad yet, but I'm replacing it anyway since I'm rebuilding the engine.  Saved $85 getting it from RockAuto vs Galvin's too



And lastly, there's the mystery of my front brakes...  Still have to figure out what this system is:



Brakes are on 14" wheels, so it's not the newer Scarebird system.  Calipers and pads look to be GM though, and based on the clip holding the outboard pad to the caliper, I'd guess a smaller GM/Chevy truck like an S-10.

Next up is getting the fenders off, and the engine out.  Then I clean up any surface rust, degrease, clean and paint the engine bay, and maybe chase some electrical issues before the engine comes back from the machine shop.


1964 AMC Rambler Classic 660

"You can think I'm an idiot, just don't talk to me like I'm one." - Batman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/23/2018 at 7:03am
It could still be a Scarebird system, just not the big brake kit. Looks like it to me. Scarebird currently sells the regular system and a big brake system for AMCs. Could be a custom made caliper mount, but if so it was professionally done... so I doubt it is a one-off.  Once you take a rotor off and get a good pic of how the bracket mounts I think we can figure it out, or send a copy of that to Scarebird and ask if it looks familiar. But you need a pic with the rotor off.

Kanter has engine parts and kits, so does Egge Machine (where Kanter gets a lot of their parts). Engine went out of production after 1967 or 68 (a few replacements made those years, and some industrial applications), so it's only natural that parts are getting more expensive and harder to find.

Look for a braze joint near tops of fenders. AMC aligned the fenders then brazed a tack to keep them that way until bolts were installed. Took me a while to figure out why fenders wouldn't come off too!!

Finally, don't let a few people with strong opinions deter you. Ignore the negative comments (resist the urge to reply!) and carry on, you'll eventually get a good answer. There are some opinionated people on here, others a bit more forgiving. Every group has both, and many more between the two! I haven't looked at the thread in question, and don't intend to now.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote LakesideRamblin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/23/2018 at 10:19am
Rob, you are making fantastic progress. Thanks for sharing, I enjoy following your work! Keep it up.
LakesideRamblin
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73 Javelin 360
"If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month." T. Roosevelt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rms827 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2018 at 12:16am
And time for another update...

I've solved the "it looks good but it doesn't" mystery.   Jabronies shouldn't be allowed to work on cars. Tongue   The engine was apparently recently (semi-recently?) rebuilt, but whoever did the work didn't know what they're doing.

For starters, they goofed something with the head bolts.  They came out too easily and there was carbon between the cylinders on both sides of the head gaskets.

Passenger's Side


Driver's Side.

Both sides of both gaskets looked pretty much the same.  Torque was clearly off.  Not sure how much was from improper torquing or a bad (cheap)  torque wrench, I'm not sure.  The head bolts raise a few questions themselves.  Most looked like newer style torque to yield head bolts.  The TSM gave me the impression that the bolts were re-usable though (something I'm still trying to check).  One bolt was a normal grade 8 bolt however, and one "head bolt" was concave in the center, looking more like a stud with a nut on the end.  And no I don't mean the bolts that hold the studs for the valve covers, LOL.

Cylinders were interesting too... NO ridge at the top of any of them, just a little bit of carbon build up from running rich and using cheap gas.



Now, oddly enough, there's also no cross hatching pattern on any of the cylinder walls.  Given the lack of ridges, that tells me the cylinders were either polished with the wrong style hone (brake cylinder hone type), or that step was skipped outright:

#2 cylinder

#1 cylinder

A couple of the cylinders didn't even have the carbon.  Pulling the heads also let me find out for sure which engine I have.  I know the 287 (4.7L) is what came with it, BUT the engine was painted red, not blue; possible 327 (5.3L)...  I was hoping, LOL.   Anyway, I have 3.5 inch diameter cylinders that are bored .30 over per my tape measure:

half way to those 4 inch cylinders in a 327...  Guess that means I have an AMC 5.0L  LOL.

Beyond that, the valves look to be in decent shape:

Passenger Side

I was kind of surprised that the rocker assembly bolts were also head bolts.  Never seen that with any other manufacturer (not that I've rebuilt a ton of engines).  Three rows of head bolts should make a properly assembled head on a normally driven car ALMOST bulletproof though.

Tomorrow the engine comes out, barring any further complications.




Barring any further complications being the key phrase.  I don't think the engine was really meant to come out from above.  Some of the bolts are so hard to get at that the easiest way to deal with it all is clearly to drop the engine and transmission as one unit from below.  the top two bell housing bolts just cannot be gotten from below.  The undercarriage just does't allow any access or clearance.  NO way I would have been able to get to them from above without pulling the heads either.  Putting everything together again without a lift is going to be fun...


1964 AMC Rambler Classic 660

"You can think I'm an idiot, just don't talk to me like I'm one." - Batman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2018 at 6:32am
Almost ALL cars are assembled at the factory by installing the engine from the bottom, at least all unit body vehicles. Full frame vehicles (just trucks now) usually have the engine installed in the frame then the body lowered on. With the heads off (at least carb, intake, valve covers, and rocker shafts) it's not too hard to lower the engine and lift the car over it. Lowers overall height of engine.

Leave motor bolted to front crossmember. Support engine from top with a cherry picker, unbolt lower control arms from crossmember then unbolt crossmember and steering drag link. Disconnect cherry picker and roll back, then pick up car body with a strap/chain attached to bumper mounts (not just bumper!) or lower radiator support (radiator should be out too). Lift body, roll back. A bit harder to get back in, but pretty much the reverse. Motor on crossmember on ground, roll car up to it, lift front with cherry picker, roll picker/car over motor, lower, move CP to motor and lift into place. Sounds easy, right?

You can use a dolly to put the motor on, but that raises height body needs to be lifted to clear it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2018 at 6:38am
The head bolts can all be grade 8 bolts. Could be that they used newer model torque-to-yield bolts. If they were the proper torque there shouldn't have been a problem with those. The original head bolts can be reused, but then you're not sure if they are original. I've not much experience with TTY bolts... aren't they marked differently on the head?

I'd replace all the head bolts with new and hone the cylinders correctly. Check the bearings for proper clearance too. I'm surprised the honing isn't correct -- can't bore at home, so a shop had to do it. Maybe whoever assembled it took a hone to it after getting back from shop???  I can't see why/how any shop that bored a block wouldn't leave it with the proper finish...
Frank Swygert
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